Yale Goes Coed

Yale Goes Coed


– Good morning, we wanna
get this session started, and thank you for being here. So, my name is Eve Rice and on behalf of the 50th anniversary
Planning Committee, I want to welcome you back
to Yale and to New Haven. For the past two years, it has been my great privilege to chair the committee planning for
this anniversary celebration. (audience cheers) To be sure, this weekend
has been a long time coming, but we’re thrilled that it’s here. I wanna pause for a moment
before we begin the main event, to thank the literally dozens
and dozens of classmates and the extraordinary staff
at the Yale Alumni Association and Yale Conferences and Events, as well as the incredible
array of individuals at Yale who have made this weekend and the 50th anniversary
projects possible. And of course, a big thank you too, to the members of the 50th
anniversary Planning Committee, women of the classes of 71, 72 and 73, whose names you will
find in your programs. I wanna offer heartfelt thanks as well to our panelists and
speakers, many of whom have traveled very far to
be with us this morning. When we sent the invitations to speak, about a year and a half
ago, almost to a person, they responded with a resounding, yes. Clearly, something about
this anniversary moment resonated with them and
we are enormously grateful for their participation. People often say in an effort like this, that it takes a village but this has been a little bit akin to a small
city, so thank you all. I also wanna mention that we have some very special guests
in the audience today, either this morning or
through the weekend. At the risk of leaving
out someone I really ought to mention, I will
name only a few people here. I want to start with naming
the incomparable first lady of Yale, Marta Moret, wife
of President Peter Salovey, who is not here this morning,
but will join us later. And I wanna acknowledge
former president, Rick Levin, who was president of Yale for two decades. (audience claps) And Jane Levin, who has taught
legions of Yale students, (mumbles) are here today.
(audience claps) And Linda Lorimer, retired Vice President and former trustee of Yale, who is also, more importantly right now, my co-chair in leading the 50 women at
Yale 150 year long effort, (audience claps) that this gathering really has
the privilege of kicking off. And I also wanna
acknowledge Catherine Hill, she’s in the audience, the senior trustee of the Yale Corporation, she
will be speaking on Saturday. So,
(audience claps) I think I will stop there, but you can recognize special guests by their purple tags on their name tags, you will undoubtedly remember some of them from our time at Yale, and others are people you will want to meet. So please, if you see a purple tag or the blue tag of the speakers, don’t be afraid to
strike up a conversation. As you will see in the printed program, there’s a lot to do in the next few days. There are thought provoking panels, campus tours, festive receptions and meals and time to connect with classmates. However, and above all, we urge you to use this time on campus in the way that is most meaningful to you. We wish you a wonderful weekend, and a memorable experience, and thank you for being here. I’d like to take a minute now to introduce president Peter Salovey, who will offer the
weekends opening remarks and introduce our esteemed panel. (audience claps) So, Peter Salovey is the 23rd
President of Yale University, and the Chris Argyris professor
of psychology at Yale. President Salovey first
arrived in New Haven as a graduate student in
psychology in the early 1980s. That’s when he met his wife, Marta, who at the time, was a graduate student in the school of public health. For over three decades since, he and Marta have made Yale and New Haven their home. And during these years, President Salovey has been a teacher and
mentor to scores of students. He is also a renowned researcher known for the development
of a broad framework called emotional intelligence. (audience claps) In addition, he has served the university in many important roles, including Dean of the Graduate School
of Arts and Sciences, Dean of Yale College and provost. Since becoming president in 2013, President Salovey has
led Yale’s aspirations to be the global research university most committed to teaching and learning. Notably, during his tenure, he opened two new residential colleges, expanded Yale College enrollment by 15%, the biggest enrollment expansion since, guess who came to Yale. (audience laughs) He has also increased
access to Yale education for students worldwide regardless of their financial background. In addition, he has advanced
innovative teaching, scholarship and research on campus and amplified Yale’s partnerships
in countries across Africa and other continents around the globe. All these efforts have been in keeping with Yale’s mission to
improve the world today and for future generations. Please join me in welcoming
President Salovey to the podium. (audience claps) – Thank you, Eve Rice, appreciate
it, thank you, thank you. Thank you, Eve, good morning, everyone. I am thrilled to see so many alumni and friends back on campus with us today and it is really a privilege
to officially welcome you to the first women in Yale college, a 50th anniversary celebration. So as you know, this weekend is the first event in a
year-long commemoration, marking 50 years of
co-education in Yale college and 150 years of female
students at the University. And so on behalf of the university, I’d like to recognize
the dedicated volunteers who put this weekend’s program together and who are planning
events over the course of the entire academic year. You all know Eve Hart Rice,
Yale College class of 1973, and I just wanna add my own thank you to her for her hard work. She is a Yale trustee, she is chair of the 50th anniversary committee and has worked tirelessly to put together a truly impressive program. I wanna thank Linda Koch Lorimer, a 1977 graduate of Yale Law School and a retired vice president of the University of former Yale trustee, she is the co-chair of
the steering committee for 50 women at Yale 150, and together, Eve and Linda, have been working with a dedicated team of alumni
and students and faculty and staff to plan this entire year. So, please join me in one more thank you to Eve and to Linda and all who have made this program possible
and this year possible. (audience claps) So we’re here to mark a moment of great significance in Yale’s history. It’s a history that you lived, it’s a history that you helped make. It’s a story of how Yale changed forever, when a group of young women
were willing to be the first. Now to be clear, there had
been women at Yale before, but as many alumni from the graduate and professional schools recall, everything changed when you, the first undergraduate women, arrived. You changed not only your college, but you changed the entire university. And it was not easy. There were obstacles, there were missed opportunities, there were mistakes. Your remarkable success
at Yale, and ever since, is a testament to your strength, integrity, and talent,
and it models resilience and self-reliance for
our current students. In the past 50 years, Yale has continued to open its doors, open its doors wider, and to push the frontiers of knowledge and understanding further. One thing has led to another, today, our students come from all 50 states from over 120 countries around the world. The class of 2023 is the most
diverse in Yale’s history. Over half identify as a
racial or ethnic minority, and all together they speak
more than 60 languages. One in five members of the
first year class qualify for Federal Pell Grants
for low income students. The number of Pell eligible students has doubled in just five years. 17% this year are the
first in their families to attend college, that’s a
75% increase in five years. What they share in common is a desire to make the most of Yale’s opportunities, to engage with new ideas,
to make a difference in the lives of others, to
shape the future of our world. And they look to you as role models, they see how you forged ahead in business, law, science, the arts, many other fields, and in a world that was not
always welcoming or accepting. They take inspiration
in your accomplishments. All around us, is the Yale you
helped create 50 years ago. Because when you walked
through Phelps gate in 1969, you showed us that
excellence is what matters, and that it takes many different people to seek light, and truth,
that is your legacy. So this weekend is an opportunity, an opportunity for the
entire Yale community, to celebrate you, and to celebrate the history that you helped make. It’s a chance to hear
and record your stories, so that we can understand
the changes you brought to Yale and to society. And it’s about looking ahead as well, to the great chapters yet to be written and to the history yet to be made. This weekend, this celebration is but a small measure of what Yale owes you. The trailblazers who
led Yale into a new era, thank you for coming back,
thank you for being here, but thank you especially
for being the first. And now, to begin our
program, what I’d like to do is welcome our distinguished moderator and panelists to the stage. Our moderator is Margaret
Warner, Yale class of 1971. Margaret is a former chief
global affairs correspondent of PBS NewsHour, a former
member of the Yale Corporation, and a senior fellow at
the Yale Jackson Institute for global affairs. She is joined by Brenda Jubin, who earned her PhD from Yale in 1973 and has served as a dean of Morse college from 1970 to 1973. Brenda is the former
president of Brevis Press. Nancy Malkiel, Professor
of History emeritus at Princeton University and former dean of the college at Princeton
is the author of the book, “Keep the Damned Women Out,”
which I hope you all have. Kurt Schmoke, Yale College class of 1971 is the president of the
University of Baltimore. Kurt is the former mayor of Baltimore, former dean of Howard
University School of Law, and a former member of
Yale’s Board of Trustees, the Yale Corporation. Garry Trudeau received
his BA from Yale in 1970, and his MFA in 1973. He’s a Pulitzer Prize
winning author and artist and creator of the comic strips,
Bull Tales and Doonesbury. John Wilkinson received his
BA from Yale College in 1960, and his master’s degree
in education in 1963. John is the former associate
dean and former Dean of Undergraduate affairs in Yale college and former secretary of the university. So please join me in
welcoming them to the stage and welcoming every one
of you back to Yale. (audience claps) – Peter, thank you, (mumbles)
fellow panelists sit. Thank you for that lovely introduction. I think we’re all alive
– (mumbles) (panel members mumble) – Hello – Mine’s on
– You’re good. – It’s on, all right, I
just have to put it closer. Thank you so much Peter for
that great introduction. All right, and I’m not in charge or sound, can someone resolve this?
(audience laughs) (panel members mumble) – Well, nobody’s is working. – Mine is
– Yep (mumbles) – Is like more of a conversation – How about that? Yes
– Okay, good. – One more time Peter, thank you for that lovely introduction, and it’s great to be back here. I remember coming here often
was at a Wednesday night for the Yale Law School Film Society, such as it was (laughs)
(audience claps) And welcome, I’m glad
that Peter introduced and let you know our panelists
and why they’re all here because they all either were part of it, actually all were part of it in some way, decision making and execution. So, today we’re really gonna, Yale had been, since 1718,
an all-male institution, and then suddenly it seemed
to people on the outside, that in 1968, the corporation took a vote and voted to move towards co-education. So, today we’re going to hear about how that happened and how different groups on campus felt about it. And then, of course,
how it was carried out. And I’m gonna start with John, nope, I’m gonna start with Nancy, forgive me. So,
(Nancy laughs) So you’ve researched and written the definitive book on co-education, not only here, but in several other Ivy’s, Princeton and Dartmouth, for sure. And, they’re so, let me just get right to the big question I have. There’s been so much mythology about why Yale voted to go coed, what do you think the truth is? (audience laughs) No, (mumbles) – I’m in a story and I’m not sure I’m in the business of truth, but I’ll tell you what I think
(audience laughs) I would say there are two main reasons and one background reasons. The main reasons which I’ll
describe are admissions, number one, and competition
with Princeton, number two. The background is the context of the 1960s and all the changes underway in the 60s that meant that by the end of the decade, a place like Yale bore
only passing resemblance to what had had been at the
beginning of the decade. First admissions, what Yale experienced in the latter part of
the 1960s like Princeton, was that the best men in high schools, they called them the best boys, these best boys no longer wanted to go to all-male schools. This is the point at which Harvard which had been going neck and neck with Princeton and Yale in admissions, up through the early
1960s, begins to pull away, because there are girls up
the street at Radcliffe. And so Yale, like Princeton, decided that it was important to admit women, not because of a mission to educate women, not because of a moral
commitment to equality for women, but rather, because admitting women was a strategic move to enable Yale, like Princeton, to regain
its hold on these best boys. Yale, like Princeton
couldn’t abide the notion that the best boys were not
any longer as interested as they had been in coming to New Haven. The competition with Princeton. Now Kingman Brewster starts this off, the faculty, others at Yale, and suddenly the Yale Daily News, understand in the early and mid 1960s,
it would be a good thing to bring undergraduate women to New Haven but the president of the corporation was certainly not having any of that. However, the opportunity arose through a mutual connection for Kingman Brewster to begin exploring with Alan Simpson, the
president of Vassar, the possibility of moving Vassar, from Poughkeepsie to New Haven. And there was about a
10-month serious study undertaken beginning, it was announced in December of 1966, very
high level president trustees, faculty administrators
of what would be involved in bringing Vassar to New Haven and some sort of coordinate
relationship with Yale. Now Bob Goheen, the
president of Princeton, finds out about this and his response is to go up to Sarah Lawrence College and begin talking to the
president of Sarah Lawrence about the possibility of doing a study of moving Sarah Lawrence to Princeton. Sarah Lawrence says, “No thank you.” Vassar eventually, of
course, said no, thank you but Sarah Lawrence says, not even a study. Princeton’s more serious
response to Vassar-Yale was to commission a study of, a data driven analytic
study of the feasibility and desirability of
co-education at Princeton, a study undertaken by Gardner Patterson, an economist in the Woodrow Wilson School. So, after Vassar, November
of 1967 says no, thank you to Yale, Brewster says,
“Well, we’ll establish “our own coordinate college for women.” And he spends the next 10 months musing about what that might entail. For Yale undergraduate, that’s one option, there were a number of others and he wrote some position papers, but essentially, nothing was happening. Now the Patterson report, is completed, published in the Princeton alumni weekly at the end of September 1968. A copy comes to Brewster,
he reads it and he sees that Princeton could be
serious about co-education. So, from the end of September
till the middle of November with no process and no
planning, Brewster gets the Yale Corporation and the Yale faculty to vote in favor of co-education
for September of 1969. Now, Princeton at this point is going through it’s very deliberate, process-oriented consultation with alumni all around the country. In January of 67, the
Princeton trustees vote for co-education in principle, and they tell president
Goheen to come back when he’s ready and tell
them how they’re going, how they would like to do it. And he does that in late April of 1969 at which point, of course, Yale has already made its decisions on admits to the class of 73. Now, if Princeton had done what
Princeton would normally do, the Princeton trustees in late April, would have said we’re going
to embark on co-education, we’ll spend a lot of time
getting organized for it, and we’ll do it for September of 1970. But they couldn’t do
that, because the women were coming to Yale in September of 1969. And so in late April of
1969, Princeton decides to bring women on in the fall of 1969. – Let me give (mumbles)
John Wilkinson in on this because you’re gonna take
us behind the scenes. – Well, I agree with Nancy completely. Yale had no plan, and as a consequence, had a flawed process, and we did it because the rumor in New Haven
was that Princeton, in fact, was gonna go co-educational
in the fall of 1969. Now, I agree with Nancy’s assessment of some of the reasons but there are a couple others that I think
were really very important. We, then, had a student
body which had become, it reached its maturity,
its majority began (mumbles) 18 rather than 21. The Yale students at that
period were not going to let the administration tell them how they were (mumbles) live their lives. And the one thing that
the Yale students wanted, (mumbles) all those men, they wanted Yale to be co-educational. And the students drove that with coed week and demonstrations and
in grading assistance, and part of that reason,
I’m convinced was, Yale was in the process in
its efforts to diversify, had discovered public
schools in a big way. And we went from two
thirds private boarding to two thirds public. All of those public school students, and a lot of the day students had gone to co-educational institutions. They had never encountered
single-sex education until they arrived at Yale. It was not something
with a regard as normal or natural or acceptable. Now, I wanna add one thing
and Nancy mentions this in her book, and I should
say, if you haven’t read it, get it
– It’s great and read it, it’s a fantastic, it’s not just Yale and the Ivy’s, it’s also the Seven Sisters, it deals with those institutions which already had coordinate colleges, and
it has a wonderful section on Oxford and Cambridge
and how they approach this. And the other book I wanna recommend is, Anne Perkins here?
– She’s here. (audience claps) – It just came out and
it’s a wonderful book, and if you are have an abiding interest in how these decisions were made, these are the two books to read. Now, one of the things that struck me as I read
(mumbles) One of the things that struck me as I read Nancy’s book was
that a whole institutions became co-educational
for pragmatic reasons. These were not principal decisions. The only
(audience mumbles) These were not principal decisions, these were pragmatic decisions. And, I don’t know of any president of any College or University
who actually made the statement that sir Eric Ashby of Clare
College, Cambridge, said, “The motivating force behind
the college’s willingness “to read on the issue,” he said, “What’s the (mumbles) inequality
and injustice being done?” This was not a statement was being made by the United States, it
was made in Cambridge. That’s (mumbles) – Interesting, so, Garry
and Kurt for undergraduates, you were in the transition,
Garry, class of 70, myself, I’m sorry, myself also with Kurt in the class of 71, I know that I can’t ask you to speak for all men undergraduates,
(audience laughs) but, it’s early (mumbles) fair, but I’m going to, Garry,
I’ll start with you because you were one class ahead. Was it as John describes? That there was this groundswell of, from where were you sat
and sketched and wrote and (audience laughs) – Was there a groundswell among the student population?
– (mumbles) – Absolutely, and one of the
most remarkable precursors to women actually coming
to Yale, as real students was when they came as fake
students for coed week. And that was organized
by an undergraduate. When you think of the
administration involved in bringing hundreds of girls
and clearing out our rooms and making them available to women, it’s quite a remarkable achievement, but it really put a stake in the ground. And all of us, particularly, I was coming off my 10th
year of single-sex education, so, it was quite a revelation to me. And I was so taken by it that I went to Wellesley’s coed week
where I was one of 50 men, just to see what it’d be
like to be in the minority. And my first class, there was an art class where I was asked to be the model (audience laughs) So, I had a little taste
of what it was like to be a curiosity before the
women did when they came, but I was also from my little bubble of prep school privilege,
I was perfectly prepared to go through my 11th year of single-sex education without complaint. But, when it became known that
it was actually gonna happen, I think that, a great many of us thought, well, this is a new feature for Yale. It’s not, I, maybe folks like Kurt who actually joined the
co-education committee and were, and mainly involved
had a different view, but I think most of us really saw it in terms of new dating opportunities. (audience laughs) And, it was something that, happened all at once. I sometimes think of co-education Yale’s a little bit like the Affordable Care Act, it was something that
was debated for decades, and then it was rushed forward all at once and had a very bumpy rollout. And then once it happened,
and was a success, everybody’s was angry on both sides, because it was a half measure. And people became really
angry very quickly, by, halfway through
– The men and women. – Men and women, by the small number and, and I think the issue of social equity that Yale had a responsibility
to educate women just out of fairness and
for the good of society, that only kind of arrived, I would say, and I’m only speaking from my one year, but that sort of began to
become a very important issue about halfway through that
first year of education. – [Margaret] And Kurt, what about you? – Well, Margaret, let me first start by noting there in our alma mater, there’s a line that says, how bright will seem
through memory’s haze. (audience laughs) On this matter, there is more
haze than brightness for me. (audience claps) But it was because of reading Nancy’s book and Anne back there, that I started to have my memory refreshed. And as Garry noted, I
was actually appointed to the first Planning Committee. It was called the planning committee for co-education headed by
Elga Wasserman at the time, and, so you can blame me (laughs) for some of the bumps that
occurred in the early years, but, Yale was going through
quite a dramatic, for Yale, a dramatic period of transition. At the time, as John
mentioned, in the 1950s here, what passed for diversity was a white male public school
student from the Midwest. (audience laughs) So then, in the 60s, the early 60s, there were a few African
American male students on campus and I think,
although Sam Chauncey, though you’ll hear from
my guest at the later, will probably explain, I wasn’t sure how I got appointed to the committee, co-education Planning
Committee, I was a sophomore at the time, honestly, I don’t
remember but I think it was because and Anne could
probably give you more detail on this, that there was some sense that an African American male, having gone through a cultural change or lived through a
cultural change on campus might in some way give an indication, although with race and
gender very different issues, but that might in some way add to an insight about the
change that was going to occur to kind of, how do you adapt to a cultural change, it’s
gonna occur on campus? Garry is absolutely right though that for most of the men here,
was overwhelming support. I mean, there was very few, certainly no organized opposition to this. There was, my recollection,
some irreverent moments if some of you may remember
the Yale marching band, one time did their own statement about the potential merger
between Yale and Vassar. If you
– I forgot (mumbles) – He forgot about that, okay. (audience laughs) Maybe I won’t explain it.
– (mumbles) – But in any event, it
was an irreverent moment that, where they commented
on it, but the bottom line is that most of the men
were very supportive. And we did, I think the notes from the planning committee show that, generally, my votes who were on the right side of history
– (mumbles) hear that – There was an argument at one time in the early planning
process about establishing a separate college at Yale for women rather than having women in all of the colleges and that was voted down. But a lot of debate, a lot of planning, and I think the decisions that
we made were the right one, though the road was bumpy, – And some might disagree
about the preparation, but I want to get Miss Brenda in this. Excuse me, Ana Brenda Dubin, so you were a young philosophy instructor,
and you taught both men and then when it went coed, women and you were named the first woman ever to be the dean of a residential college. So how did it, once the women arrived, what change did you
detect both as a teacher and as, sort of, dorm
counselor and enforcer? – Let me start back one step, I was also a graduate student at Yale. And graduate students at that point were really second class citizens. Yale College was the
center of the universe, the graduate school was
definitely peripheral to the main thrust of the university. Within the graduate school,
women were even worse off. We were all corralled into (mumbles) that architectural
masterpiece, and we’re told, among other things that
we had to wear skirts to go to the library,
which most women found a little bit off, but that was the Yale University graduate school. When Yale became coed,
and when I was named dean, I became part of an entirely new universe. This was a community, a vibrant community of men and women, yes, of course, there were bumps in the road, and Yale, and there were a few men who wished me not to ever have been appointed,
thank you very much. But in general, it was
a vibrant, lively place. And I am personally very
grateful for co-education because without that, I would
probably still have been a third, fourth class citizen
in the graduate school. Okay, now, when women came. Yeah, I taught in the
philosophy department. My first class with a
woman, I had one woman in a class of maybe 20,
and I thought, oh, dear, I sort of hoped that she’s
a really good student, and she wasn’t, and I
thought, well, that’s too bad, just get over it, and, she’s
gonna be an average student and why not have an average woman? Not every woman has to be, super woman. But, in general, I didn’t have problems on the teaching front. As far as being dean was concerned, I wish I had held all women in the sense that it would have freed up so much time. (audience laughs) I spent all my time dealing with the men. The men had all the problems.
– (mumbles) – The men needed the dean’s excuses, the men, needed that recommendation
for Harvard Law School, which they were never going to get into but daddy said they had to apply anyway. So, this was basically my experience, in a nutshell (mumbles) – The men needed more hand holding and guidance than the women? – Much much more, much much more. The women who came in, first of all, of course, they were hand picked. And, so you had women who were strong and bright and whatnot,
but they got there, and, for instance, in Morse,
we had the strangest assortment of women living together in an entry way. How they did ever get along was beside me, but they did, they got along fine. Nobody came saying, “I
have to move from this room “because I can’t stand X and Y.” The men on the other hand, was like, “I have to remove, because he’s too noisy, “and I can’t stand him anymore.” So, as I said, I would
have had all the free time in the world, my dissertation
would have been finished well (mumbles)
– Years before. – If I had only women. (audience laughs)
(audience claps) – [Margaret] So, Garry (mumbles) – Can I comment on the super woman label that the women got tagged with? I think,
(audience mumbles) – Guess you have to put the
mic right up in front you. – Okay, I have to find that sweet spot. Is that okay? I just wanted to comment
on the super women label that, who gave it to,
it was a Time magazine. (mumbles) And, it was initially
a little intimidating from a male perspective,
but once the women arrived, even though it was an infusion
of high IQ individuals what was most disruptive
to the male culture was the high EQ that,
the women just seemed more developed, mentally mature (audience laughs) I always had the sense that
they could see right through me and it wasn’t a pretty
picture, and so it was, that was the only way in
which I thought they were, actually over time, I thought that was a tremendous contribution
to the overall culture. (mumbles) – But difficult for some men, Kurt? Oh, I’m sorry, but difficult for some men, do you agree Kurt? – Well, it’s hard to
generalize because the, our experiences were so different though. When I came in, I came
from a public high school that was all-male, 4000 all boys, yeah, and it was kinda weird, but, so this was not the
shocking experience to me and also my experience
here was slightly different than some of my other colleagues because I came in as a football player. So, that was a traditional
Yale institution. So I didn’t feel a
disconnect from the place, the way some of my other colleagues did. And with respect to the women, well, I can see the
Congresswoman coming in now. I mean, I know that there definitely were some high powered people, but I didn’t get a sense of that. Maybe I didn’t because I didn’t read Time magazine at the time, – [Margaret] New York
Times or whatever it was. – But I did get a real sense
of friendship and camaraderie. And, not a disconnect
that some others felt. – So, John
– (mumbles) – Oh, yes, go right ahead,
I was gonna (mumbles) – I agree, the men were
accustomed to being pampered and they came to the Yale
College dean’s office all the time, asking for help. The women who came, came to
tell us how to do our job. (audience laughs)
(audience claps) And, I remember the first time
I had an undergraduate woman, had a tear roll down her
cheek, she was so embarrassed, and I pulled out a
Kleenex and I said I have about 10 boxes of Kleenex
here I’ve been using for years for men, don’t
apologize for tears. (Margaret laughs)
(audience claps) I don’t think the women had any more or fewer problems than the men. I think the women were much more reluctant to express them
– Could well have been. – And I think that was
part of the culture. (mumbles) I think that women were much less willing to express their issues and their problems than the men because they had come to this new strange place and
they had to be resilient. (audience claps)
And they were. – So again, John, and also Nancy, what can you tell us about
the selection process? I mean, over grades or something, but what was, I’ve heard, again, there’s a lot of mythology
about what Elga Wasserman was looking for in particular. Can anyone here shed light on it? – Well, what Elga and Sam
Chauncey clearly agreed on was that they were looking
for something beyond the credentials you might normally expect in terms of academic
achievement and leadership in high school, they
were looking for people who were tough, who were gritty, who were resilient, who could in fact, survive in this environment. And they were very explicit about that. And both of them played a significant role in the review of applications
for women at Princeton, the phrase that was often used was, people who had been American
field service students abroad was one marker for the
kind of grit and ability to adjust to unfamiliar circumstances. The theory as enunciated
by Wasserman and Chauncey was it is really gonna
take a lot of strength and adaptability for women to
manage at this institution. – Yeah, Marg, I think the analogy that I had to the
process was the selection of Jackie Robinson, as
the first African American in Major League Baseball,
that Branch Rickey, the owner of the team, wasn’t just looking for the best athlete,
there was a combination of characteristics that they wanted, and somebody who was
gonna be able to stand up to a tough environment as
well as being a great athlete. So they were definitely looking for, outstanding academic achievement, but it was that plus some characteristic. – We’re all gonna be
blushing in this auditorium. But anyway, Garry, you
wanted to say something. Oh, you just looked very, very interested. So John, anyone chime in on this, what was the thinking behind
the lack of preparation? I mean, I certainly
(audience laughs) Was there thinking? I mean, we girls are women we would have, there were no women’s bathroom say, in this, well there probably
was in this building but in most buildings, so you
had to run back from class to your dorm room or
suite to use the bathroom. The women who were very
athletically minded, were just stunned. I think Anne Perkins has a great anecdote about this in her book. The young woman comes in and says, well, so I wanted to join the hockey team, and the varsity and the
Director of Athletics just looked dumbfounded, there’ve
been no arrangements made for or anticipation that women athletes had the same aspirations as
men and would need facilities that would serve them if they were going to be the superstars they wanted to be. So what was the thinking? (audience laughs) – There was, there (mumbles)
been a (mumbles) thinking. My wife as a wealthy classmate who became a professor at the University
of SUNY, Stony Brook, who went to Oxford several years ago before they had become co-educational, and the fellows voted to
make her an honorary man. (audience laughs) So she could attend those
events that the fellows, all of them were male, attended. In some, I thought, (mumbles)
told this story to us a few weeks ago, I thought,
the lack of planning, we brought in 500 women
and we treated them like honorary men. (audience laughs) The planning took place,
largely, I’m sorry, Kurt, a lot of the planning took
place after you were here. Because it was a rush job,
and we probably should have had a couple years of planning. But I don’t think the
undergraduate student body at that time would have permitted the administration to wait two years. – But Nancy didn’t (mumbles)
actually set the terms when you said, this is our R&D year, this is an experiment and– – [Margaret] Garry, can
you explain more clearly. – (mumbles) my understanding
was that Brewster viewed, the first year of
co-education as the R&D year that it was the year in which
he expected to experiment and, correct me if I’m wrong, Kurt, but I think that the
co-education committee was supposed to be
doing the field research and gathering the data and
finding out what was good and what was bad and then
reporting back to him. The problem was he didn’t do
anything with that report. So, it was another two or three years before we were on the
path to full education. – To full (mumbles) what
do you wanna add, Nancy? – Well, if Brewster thought about this, I haven’t found it in the written record. (audience laughs) I think he just figured,
Yale was going to do this and it would work itself out some way or another and the women would get here and would help Yale
figure out how to do this. But as Garry said, he was not interested in the reports from the
co-education committee and so it was just work itself out. – Yeah, and I think in both
Nancy’s and Anne’s book that is demonstrated by
the tension that occurred between Kingman Brewster
and Elva Wasserman, she tried her best not only to get these reports directly to
him, but to elevate her status at the university, and
he continued to keep her a special assistant rather
than as an associate dean or as a dean, or as a
senior vice president, and so there was a tension there. The other thing that’s not really captured in anything that I’ve read, the pressure that he was on under by
alumni and some trustees who were against this. He had the votes on the corporation at one time with some major leaders to move this thing forward, but there was some real opposition and a question about what that might mean for
the future financial status of the place and I know
that that was a concern that he had, let’s do it now
and, ask forgiveness later. – [Margaret] Yes, Nancy. – Which is in a way characteristic of the way Brewster
operated on other friends. Would a really,
deliberate, careful planner have made the remark he made about the unlikelihood of a
black revolutionary getting a fair trial in the United States? Would he have made the remarks he made about his opposition to the Vietnam War? Probably not, if he was being careful and working not to stir up opposition, but Brewster was under
attack from so many quarters over his stance on the war, stance on the Panther’s willingness
to open the campus to the demonstrators on May
Day over his unwillingness to silence or fire William Sloane Coffin. So co-education was just one other thing where people were really angry at him. And my sense is that
because of the alumni anger at Brewster on so many fronts, his ability to maneuver on co-education
was more limited than it might have been if
he had had a freer hand. – Well, give us a sense of the alumni. I guess I’ll turn to you, John, again. How fierce was the opposition? What form did it take? What was really the overriding objection? – Well, because of the lack of planning, and the immediacy of the decision, I think those who were, very much in favor of co-education were very pleasantly surprised. Those who were opposed to co-education, were very unpleasantly surprised and the opposition was
more imagined than real. It didn’t take very long for our alumni to think that in fact, they had daughters who were going to get into Yale. And I understand full
well, why the presidents of these institutions were afraid of that because sometimes the
opposition was very vocal. But indeed, the opposition
was not very deep. – [Margaret] And did it have a theme? – Well, it was hard to sort it out at Yale because as Nancy said, there
were lots of other issues. We were dealing with Panthers, we were dealing with the Vietnam War, we were dealing with the
changes in the admissions, decisions, the changing the demography of the undergraduate student body, so that, there were a
number of people coming out of that hornet’s nest mad as hell at Kingman for a whole range of decisions, co-education was only one of them. – And did it (mumbles)
after a year or two? – Yes, thanks to the
leadership of people like, Fred Rose and Mel (mumbles)
and there were a number of alumni who stepped up to the front and they really took over, and (audience claps) And created the association
to be all alumni which became comprehensive and represent the entire university and
go to graduate student, and has flourished as a very
supportive organization. – (mumbles) can I, I just
want to say, you know this, you have put this in
context about the change. Yale, look, I think that Yale didn’t have its first Jewish Corporation
member until late 60s. So, this place and when I was here, I was still listening to some
old blues that were talking about Yale admitting too
many people from New York. (audience laughs) Which was code, you know. And so, there was serious opposition to this kind of change going on. So I think that that really
has to be placed in context. It seems like kind of an easy, but hasty decision that he made, but it was pretty
dramatic and revolutionary for this place that was
tied into such all ways. And Brenda was mentioning
about the college. I mean, the graduate school, I mean, it was kind of a peripheral thing here. I think, Rick and Levin and you know, it’s helped during his tenure here to make the entire university,
the place when you say Yale, it’s not just the college,
the entire university, but all those things came about slowly and so this was a very,
very dramatic change for an institution that
was kinda hidebound and looking mainly to the past. – Margaret, can I just
say one other thing, because I think it really is important. I think it’s really important
to put this in the context. I mentioned earlier the public
school population doubled. The student of color population was doubling almost every year, for over a five year
period, and the Jewish and Catholic population during
that period doubled as well. So, Yale by the time you arrived was a very, very different
place from the one that I went to from 1956 to 1960. – Did you wanna jump in Garry? – No. (audience laughs) – You always look so, you
know you look spellbound and as if you’re on the
verge of saying something, so I’ll put you on the
spot, I’m dying to ask. I don’t recall, so I’m gonna ask you, did Bull Tales deal with co-education? To what degree was it
good grist for Bull Tales? I tried to research this on
Google, but it was hard to find. – Well, I tried to research it too. (audience laughs) And I found, I published two collections of Bull Tales when I was a student, and I dug out the second one. And the less we say
about that, the better, other than I’m so so sorry (audience laughs) For whatever small, toxic contribution to your experience I made. What preceded that, when
I first started thinking about, well, what does this mean for us as a satirist on the Yale record, which is still is the humor magazine, and we gathered here at
Yale a few weeks early to try to get out an early issue
about women coming to Yale, and how we enlisted the help of, a friend of my mother’s who
was a professional model, runway model and she was like 5’11 and had three feet of blonde hair. And thought, well this is a perfect avatar for the women that will
be arriving, we put her on the cover as eye candy
with two words, the girls. And then the inside we had four profiles of supposedly incoming freshmen. Of course, we didn’t know any but we, and we needed
pictures so we enlisted the help of our legacy girlfriends. And who were all too happy to
make fun of the competition. So we took their pictures and
we wrote profiles for them. And, I can’t imagine what
it would have been like, – [Margaret] You mean, you didn’t– – We’re making fun of them
before we met any of them. – And were these real
women coming to Yale? – No, no, no, no, they
were just girls we knew. (audience laughs)
– So, – All babes, I imagine – Yes, so that was my opening move, and, going back and looking at some of those early strips that
the, there’s no hiding it because it was in the the Welcome Center, there’s a strip where
Mike arrives in college and finds that through some error, administrative error,
his roommate is a woman. That was, you think would set up some pretty interesting storylines, you would think would set up some pretty interesting storylines, but I think the less we
talk about where that went, (audience laughs) The better, I think the strip did become kind of a symbol of the old
order in some people’s minds and I think, I was rewarded for that by being included in a book
called, “Women at Yale,” which was written by two
sociologists, grad students. Did you encounter that
Nancy in your research? It was written by two really interesting sociology grad students named Pepper Schwartz and Janet Lever. And they were into sort of
participatory fieldwork. And so they actually went out on dates, they went to mixers,
they went on road trips, they all matter of humiliation
just to get a taste for it. And they interviewed a
lot of Yale students, including myself, and
I remember coming out of that interview, it
must have been in January, halfway through the year, and being very uncomfortable with my answers. They are the kind of
answers I would have given a year earlier, two years earlier, and probably answers
that were representative of a lot of Yale seniors at that time. And, I think and again,
you have to correct, correct me on the chronology but I think that there was a gathering, there was some women’s gathering in
February, a conference. – I’m in the midst of
whatever time (mumbles) – There was this nation of the alumni luncheon by the freshmen. – Right, the disruption
at well, at any rate, I, this is something that
I started thinking about. Remember the women’s movement only arrived on campus as the undergraduate’s did. I think if you would ask the
typical female undergraduate in the fall of 1969, are you a feminist? I think some of them would
have to think about it and some of them might not even know what that meant as a belief system. If you would ask them, do
you think women should enjoy the same rights and opportunities as men? Well, that’s a no brainer, that’s why they were there,
that’s how they got there. But the actual creation of a movement of women reaching out to one another had not happened, hadn’t
even happen on the campus, it was hard to find women’s
groups in the early. – Part of it was all the non freshmen, half of us didn’t know one another because we were split up
in different colleges. So, that was, in other words,
we hadn’t had the old campus, I guess bonding experience,
whatever you’d call it. Kurt, were you about to add something? – No, just that that was
a deliberate decision of the planning committee. – Oh, what was the deliberate
decision of the planning? – To make sure that women
were in all the colleges rather than in a single college for those who transferred as well as those who came in as freshmen. – So in that, in the end, didn’t Silliman have women, or no? There wasn’t – They all did
– They all did. – Yes, yes. – There was a decision on
the part of the president to make Trumbull college,
a woman’s college, and he appeared before
this Trumbull students who made sure that would not happen. (Margaret laughs) And it was understandable
because Kingman graduated in 1941, from 1941 to
1968 at that point, or 69, the residential college
system had come into its own. So people identified very strongly and in fact, I remember some of you, when you went to meetings
in the hockey rink, protesting one thing or another, you would introduce
yourself not with a surname, you’d be Mary from Silliman,
Hellen from Trumbull. So, the colleges had become
very strong identifying places for our undergraduates,
so when Kingman tried to take Trumbull away from the men, they would not let it happen. – So Brenda, talk a little bit more about what we’re talking about here, the sort of social fabric, the community and the
way it was organized, because you probably had, am I right? A lot more students
pouring out their heart or complaining than most would hear. – Not so much about social life. Social life was like rooming
(mumbles) Things that we overlooked. There was a double next to
the Dean’s apartment, but – [Margaret] There was a what? – A double room next to
the Dean’s apartment, which actually turned into
like the honeymoon suite. I am proud to announce by the way that all those couples
who are still married, who occupied that double,
but no, I was not hearing, sort of, oh, I’m having problems socially. I said the women just
were not complaining, the men were not complaining so much socially as academically. – [Margaret] (mumbles)
their academic complaints? – That they
– (mumbles) having women – That they weren’t,
they weren’t complaining about the women, they were complaining they couldn’t do the work. (audience laughs) The women didn’t complain
because they did the work. And you got to graduation, it was like, so and so woman summa cum laude, so and so guy barely squeaked by, etc. But, this was, I said I was so surprised that was that the women got along. I said you just wouldn’t have believed. – [Margaret] And why did you
think that was surprising? – Because they were so different
in terms of personality. I mean, you would not think that they could actually socialize, they
could have lunch together. I mean, they live next to each other, well, wouldn’t that be enough? I mean, if you really didn’t
like that one so much, but no, they seem to be
– Find other (mumbles) – They made little groups cohorts, and I guess felt comfortable that way. – [Margaret] So one
change to the social life, of course, was dating and the road trip and I’m gonna ask Garry and
Kurt to describe Berlin. – I never went on a road trip while I was (audience laughs) ever – Garry.
– I did. (audience laughs) Would even hitchhike to Smith and those early mixers that I went to, but (audience mumbles) – He’s confessing that
he did go on road trip. – I did, those that, there were mixers where busloads of young
women were brought to Yale. And, but there were also the mixers to which we were invited
at women’s campuses. And, no it was a horror show (laughs) – [Margaret] It was a what? – It was a horror show, I mean, there’s no other way to describe it. And I was very shy and I was an art guy. There’s I think, you know, there’s, one of the things that Yale did for me was that it made it okay to be an art guy. It’s no accident that women have been at the Art School for 150 years. I think that art as a
discipline was seen as soft, unserious, and, but it
allowed me to create a connection with the women friends that I made subsequently in
my sophomore junior year. And, it was something that
you could find support for once you got to Yale, because I’ve been through all these seven years
of macho prep school culture. So it was a bit of a relief. – So, I think now we’re
going to open it up to questions from the audience and, or is someone moving around with the mic? – Yeah, so – Marg, can I ask Nancy, though. In your experience, the
experience of women at Princeton was a very different than the experience of women at Yale from just your study. – Yeah, it, and I say
this not as a chauvinist for Princeton, but it
went somewhat better. It didn’t go better in all the ways that it didn’t go well at Yale, which is to say you’re
the only woman in a class and the instructor asks you
for the woman’s point of view. In literature or psychology, maybe, but in math and physics,
it didn’t go better in the sense that, a woman
walks into a study room in the library and the
large number of men there start giggling and she
leaves and never goes back. Again, it didn’t go better in – So you’re saying these
things did happen at Princeton. – Absolutely, though all of that sort of thing happened at Princeton. All of the unease of the women when their great friend
during the week brings a great friend from Smith
or Wellesley on the weekend, all of that was descriptive of Princeton. The ways in which it
went better are several. First of all, Princeton had 170 women in the first year, Yale had 576. Now, you might say, just 170 women. What that allowed was, first of all, we had the housing to
accommodate the women and then we quite quickly
acquired new living spaces. We turned the Princeton in the hotel into a dormitory residential college, we built new dormitories
so that intense crunch on housing space here were men and women who were so overcrowded in rooms meant for fewer students was
not the case at Princeton. It went better at Princeton, in that the woman hired as an
assistant dean of students to work on the development
of co-education, the acculturation of the women students, was highly respected by
the president, the provost, the Dean of the College,
the Dean of Students who listened to her, who
acted on her recommendations, none of the marginalization
that Elga Wasserman experienced. And it went better at Princeton, in the sense that this woman dean was able to get to know personally, every single one of
those 170 women students to listen to their stories and experiences and then to formulate
institutional responses to improve the situation
as smart and effective as Elga Wasserman was. She couldn’t get to know
576 students personally and as has been said,
certainly the President was not listening to her recommendations. So those are some of the
ways in which I think it was easier at Princeton,
which is pretty paradoxical, there’s nothing in the
history and traditions of that place that would
lead you to believe that co-education would have gone well. (audience laughs) – I remind you that
Nancy’s still at Princeton. (audience laughs) I mean, just so you know
the institution well. So, how are we doing questions here? All right, I think, go right here. And if you just introduce
yourself and your year. – I’m Kelsey Kauffman and
I graduated in the 71. And so I love the
opportunity of celebrating the past as a chance to think
about discrimination today. There are hundreds of
thousands of our sisters who are not welcome here at Yale, and those are post incarcerated women. A number of years ago, I
started the college program at the Indiana Women’s Prison, ran it for quite a number of years, still work with my former students. When one of my outstanding
students applied here to Yale University for graduate school, her application was not considered. – [Margaret] So, I meant to say, do you have a question? – Yeah, okay. So, Kurt schmoke,
– Yes, ma’am – I would love to hear
you speak about parallels between discrimination against
post incarcerated people now, compared to discrimination
against women back in our era. – Just real quick, though. My current job as a president
University of Baltimore, we actually have a degree granting program into Jessup Correctional Institution, right outside the city. And so, we had to take young men who are in a, within
three years of release and they are admitted
to our academic programs and then when they release, they come on to our campus to complete their degree. So, we are reaching out
to returning citizens and we do have a number of our professors who are also involved with women and who are incarcerated now. So I can’t speak for
Yale, but I don’t think that that should be a
barrier to admissions. And I’m sure that other
alumni would support making sure that that
barrier doesn’t exist. (audience claps) – Another question, yes,
right there, just you. – I’m Leah Greenwald, I
am from the class of 72. Could you, where’s Avi Soifer? Could you
– Avi? – Where’s Avi Soifer? I mean, my understanding. (mumbles) – [Kurt] He’s in Hawaii, he’s the Dean of the Law School in Hawaii. – Right, but right this minute, I thought he was even gonna be here, but my understanding from friends of mine in my class who were
freshmen without women was that Avi did it all. And so, now you know,
that’s the impression of an undergraduate at the time, but perhaps you could add his role, some information about his role in the lead up to the
announcement that okay, women come on in, thanks. – Kurt
– Well, Avi Soifer and Derek Sher did it
all, and in fact (mumbles) – Can you just explain in
a nutshell who they were. – Derek Sher and Avi Soifer were the two who organized the co-education week. And Avi also was a strong, strong advocate for co education, he probably was the most outspoken
advocate for co-education. And I’m sorry, he’s not here
because you have a lot to say. – And in Anne’s book in particular, there’s a great, a lot of
information about Avi there. I don’t know, whether
he could have been here, but if you’d like to know
you’re absolutely right, he was a leader in this effort, and I think is captured
pretty well in here. – Right (mumbles)
– I just wanna say for a moment, Avi was
invited, he sent his regrets. He invited, I’m not sure
he may not regret this because there are, how
many people in the audience but he said, If any of
you wanna contact him, he’d be glad to hear from you. So,
(audience laughs) But he was invited and
we’re sorry he’s not here. – Thank you, Eve. The lady in the striped shirt, I think. No, (mumbles) I’m sorry, I meant you. – Thank you, My name is Maggie Coon, class of 1973, Calhoun Grace Hopper. I’m hoping Anne Perkins
is in the audience. Is she here? Kind of as a follow up, I
had the distinct impression from reading your book, that
Kingman Brewster displayed a lot of resistance to co-education, and so, I’d love to hear a little bit more of your reflection on
that because I sort of got a little bit different
impression from our panelists, if you’re willing to comment. – Sure. (mumbles) I’m standing
– You’re so shy. – The woman
(audience claps) I never met Kingman Brewster, he left before I came here as a freshman. But in reading about him, I
was so struck and listening to those of you whom I
interviewed about him, so struck by the admiration
students had for him. His stands on the Vietnam War, which were incredibly courageous. And I think I see them a
little differently than you, Nancy, and that I think
they were very thoughtful. He would go off and write
his president’s report on Marta’s vineyard,
and really think about the place of a university in
welcoming students of color who had not been included
at a place like Yale before, in taking stands on
issues such as Vietnam, but I do think there was a blind spot when it came to women and for me, the answer really lies in
the incredible insularity of many of the men at Yale. So Garry has talked about how he had been at an all-male school for 11 years. So Brewster went from all-male prep school to all-male Yale to nearly all-male, Harvard Law School, back to Yale, where he appointed all
of his closest advisors, as men who had gone to all-male Yale, and the trustees were men who
had gone to all-male Yale. So there’s no, and he marries a woman whose father went to all-male
Yale, and she went to Vassar. So there’s not an ability to
see beyond that world of men. And I do think that that hampers him, and particularly this
idea that Yale needed to have a quota that
hasn’t come up yet today, but Yale needed to have a
quota on the number of women because Yale’s job is to produce leaders and, 1000 male leaders and
because men are leaders and women are not, or
so the reasoning went, why spend any spaces that
you didn’t have to on women? I love that, is an
example of the ancillary because if he had just
looked out his window in Woodbridge Hall, he
might have been able to see down to the law school, where Marian Wright Edelman had graduated a number of years before,
where Hillary Rodham had just started as a student, or down to the graduate school where Janet Yellen was getting her degree. So there were leaders at Yale, even when women leaders at
Yale, even when you arrived, but I think that was hard for
some of them and (mumbles) (audience claps)
– Very interesting. I wanna get someone from there, but first, yes, that with the, sort of Karl scarf. – Hi, I’m Sarah Coffin and
I was in the class of 73. And I wanted to address
this point a little bit on personal experience and ask the panel. Two, I had personal
experience when I came here and went around with my brother on a tour given by in (mumbles) and I asked him at the time it was 68, I said, “Oh, this is perfect, I
really wanna go here.” And he said, “I have the
support of the President, “and that’s why I’m saying
to me, we will go coed, “I don’t know, I don’t
think we’re gonna be able “to do it in time for you.” And then of course, things got sped up. But he said Kingman is for it, and we just need a little more time. So, to address that, I had this word from the Director of Admissions
as a kid going around, that he was saying he had
the support of the President. But to the question I
wanted to ask the panel is maybe with those of
you who had experience of the subsequent Yale after we were here, my impression has been that, a lot of the dissatisfaction
has been expressed by students who came after
us, who expected Yale to be completely ready for
women when they still weren’t. And maybe this is 10 years out, or maybe even a little less. And at least from my own
personal experience, I arrived. It was crazy, in fact, we all went into the bathroom the first time, and there were all these multiple colors, and they were urinals, and we said, great, that’s their way of making
the bathrooms for women. And it was funny, and we showed up and at least I didn’t particularly care if I was the only girl,
and I guess we all knew we were in for an experiment,
I’m sure other people had terrible moments, and
I’m not saying they didn’t, but I’m wondering if those of you who’ve been involved with the university as I have in the arts, I have found that there’s dissatisfaction and the sound as if things were worse
at Yale than at Princeton. And I know the tennis team went down there and they were just, attacked by the men overnight in the (mumbles) – [Margaret] I’m sorry but
we can’t quite hear you. – No, so I’m saying that,
what is your impression about whether a lot of
this dissatisfaction that’s expressed about the early time is in fact, retro thinking
about interviewing women later? – Can I try something? I have a daughter who
graduated the class of 1986, and a daughter-in-law who got her PhD here in the year 2000, and I have to say that both of them loved
their Yale experience, they felt totally accepted. My daughter then went on
to the architecture school. 15 years later, Yale was
truly co-educational. – But I share with you as one of the, I was on the class of
71, there was a sense that this was an adventure, and (audience claps) And so maybe we didn’t
have the expectations that someone even coming along
five years later would have, where women felt, like they
been added on, tacked on. – Ah, yes, right here. – Hi, I’m Marcia Eckard, class of 71 J and, I don’t, this is my
question to everybody. I’ve been getting the impression and it’s perhaps it’s because the class of 73 started out at Vanderbilt. And, the rest of us were sort of, I sort of have this
image that they took us like seeds and just threw us. (audience laughs) If you had a roommate, who was a friend, you did develop a woman friend, my roommate was a White Black Panther. So she sort of went off. And, so I have the feeling that there was more cohesiveness
in the class of 73. I see here of a number of
things that they did together, whereas frankly, I didn’t really know other (mumbles)
– (mumbles) okay – So I just wondered is
that anybody’s impression that the class of 73 had slightly more, maybe not a lot, but slightly
more experience together? (audience mumbles) – [Margaret] Let’s go to one person who is gonna answer this. – I’m Emily Fine, class of 73 JE. And yes, I think definitely there was a Vanderbilt cult that
kept us somewhat sane, but remember, all of you
talk about experiment and how exciting it was, and yes, indeed it was, but we were 17 and 18. And, is it really fair to experiment on 17, 18 year old girls? (audience laughs) So that’s remark number one,
sorry, it’s not a question. Question number two is, this morning, to me is in some ways a metaphor for 69. You are having hundreds of women sit here for three hours with
smaller bladders than men. (audience laughs) And whoever arranged this, I love you Eve, did not arrange a bathroom check unless you’re all on a
(mumbles), but I’m not. So anyway, just that was
just sort of a funny comment. I sort of said, aha, here we are, not enough bathrooms for women in 69 and not enough bathroom breaks in today. But okay, that was just
– (mumbles) – A sort of observation. But I would like to say
– Okay, so over here (mumbles) – But I would like to comment about this is a question for the panel. So one of the things that’s happened to me as a New Haven resident all these years, is that people come up to me and say, now that there are so many women at Yale, there certainly can’t be a need for an office of women anymore, right? And so my question is, even though numbers may have increased, I still feel that, just
like I felt back then, that although there was
excitement about us coming, there really wasn’t the
support in terms of mentoring, there was no, I didn’t feel
like anyone reached out to see if I was surviving, I feel that even though women maybe in fact, in the numbers, majority now, I don’t know that there’s still so
many specific issues, as we all know, about
being female on campus and still a somewhat
male dominated society. And I just feel like, as
the trailblazers here, it is our responsibility
to still stay in touch with a women’s experiment
– Thank you so much I’m gonna go to, we have spend, so many people with their hands up and we only have 15 minutes. – [Susan] Can I go? – [Margaret] No, no (mumbles) – [Susan] I just
– I have ignored– – May I please? One more question? I’m Susan (mumbles), 1971 Calhoun. I knew president Peter
when he was spotting a very nice mustache, and hanging out at the grad professional
center, way back when. I also came back to Yale
and got my PhD, much later. One of the things that struck me, my first came to Yale was
the lack of women faculty. I didn’t realize at the time that overall nationally only one to 2% of faculty members were any university, national average or women, but at Yale it must have been point one or something like that. Coming from Barnard, it was a shock. And I wonder whether any thought went into increasing the
number of women faculty to develop better parity with male faculty as a part of co-education,
and a larger question looming over our get together. I remember hearing back then when I asked about why there were no women faculty, the answer was well, they
couldn’t find enough women of quality, of that level at the time, to become faculty members at Yale. And now here we are, 50 years later, and although 50% or maybe a bit more of the student population are women, we have come nowhere near
that number in women faculty. So going back to the beginning, was any thought ever giving
to developing women faculty or future faculty members at Yale? Thank you. (audience claps) (mumbles) – John, I’m handing
this hot potato to you. – Yeah, yeah, but that
wasn’t my job description. (audience laughs) But, there was a lot of talk, and indeed, there was movement. You mean, people like Brenda was teaching, there were, but it was most,
almost all at the junior ranks. There were efforts to
appoint more adjunct women, there are lots of faculty wives who had their PhD from this institution, but there was no concerted,
organized effort. Now there is, and it’s a hard task, we’ve come a long way, we
have a long, long way to go. – What are the figures John? Do you know
– Pardon? – A full-time 10-year faculty
– No, I don’t know Peter would know, I don’t
know what the numbers are now. (mumbles) – So what is it now? (mumbles) – President Salovey is just saying every five years the ratio shifts, – You can really see the
demographics shifting. So we break down the gender
ratio in five year increments. And in the most recent years, the most recent hiring,
there’s essentially parity in many many, many fields. But, you have a lot
of, what’s a euphemism? Very senior faculty where the
ratios are very skewed still, and, but as they move toward retirement, you can see the replacement. I don’t have the current number, Dean Chang is behind me and I can see he’s on his cell phone looking it up. (audience laughs) Right now, maybe we’ll have it before the session ends but (mumbles) – Yeah, that’s what
he’s looking at I think. – A (mumbles) – So 36%?
– Yes, yeah – 36% tenured or tenured track? – (mumbles) – In arts and sciences, right? – It seems– – Better but not there yet, yeah. – And, you know, that’s a process that all hiring process is one that is really stuck in the 19th century because the faculty and
the faculty leadership, primarily responsible for it, the president doesn’t just, hire, but I know during
president Levin’s tenure, and I’m sure president
Salovey is continuing, there were actually incentives provided to the departments to go
out and try their best to get around the traditional pattern of looking for people who look like you, to succeed you on the faculty, and there is much more diversity because of those incentives
that were provided. But my goodness, it is
a very difficult process to get people to come out
of the traditional methods of selecting faculty and that has been one of the reasons it’s been so slow, moving on the issue of women and as tenured faculty members. – Yeah, that’s true, we do have incentives for hiring women, faculty and fields where women are underrepresented. I should also mention, Yale has 15 Deans running
professional schools, and the graduate school
and arts and sciences, and with the appointment of Nancy Brown as our new dean of the School of Medicine, she will start on February 1st, we now have eight out of 15 of those Deans that are women so, (audience claps) – My name is Diana Wasserman
– (mumbles) – And I graduated from
medical school in 1977. I was admitted to the class of 73, but I’m speaking with another voice for somebody who isn’t
here, which was my mother, Elga Wasserman. (audience claps) Thank you, she would be delighted. (audience claps) Thank you very much. I have a couple comments to make in anticipation of this weekend, I spent some time in her files and with my memories in the lead up to co-education, I was
a senior in high school and very much interested
in what was going on. I want to say, and this was stated in her oral histories, she got along well with Kingman Brewster, she respected him, and I think for the most part, he respected her, he didn’t
know what he was getting, when he hired Elga Wasserman. (audience laughs) They spent a year or you
can correct me, John, a couple of years traveling
around the country, speaking to alumni groups,
and selling co-education. And, she had quite a few
stories to tell that year. She also had an office
over in Strathcona Hall where she did speak with many of you. And she spoke with
people who worked for her but also people who came with problems. And, I know that, and she recorded this that at one point, a student came to her and I don’t know if that
person is here, saying, “I don’t know what to do. “I spoke to my professor about starting “a women’s studies program and he said, “Why would we want to do that? “We might as well start a program “on the history of dogs.” And, that was, not common, but there were those elements. And there were elements at Yale, that did not want my mother to be a dean because it would demean
the position of Dean. My mother and father came
to New Haven in 1948. And for those of you who
were at Morse last night, this is a repetition, but my
dad got his PhD at Harvard, in the lab of a Nobel
laureate, and he came here, one of the first Jewish
professors at Yale, as an instructor. My mother got her PhD at Harvard in the same lab of a Nobel laureate. Although she said he was very invested in her career until she got married. And then he figured that she
wasn’t serious about science. But, there were women around who could be hired on the Yale faculty. And, she, her efforts on behalf of faculty members and trying to get more faculty at Yale may have been why she didn’t have a long term position
at Yale, I don’t know, but I know that she felt
very strongly about that. She felt very strongly about the fact that there needed to be more women, and that the number of men
would have to be reduced or new colleges would have to be built. So, she was very fond of the
people she worked with at Yale, many of whom you’re hearing
and will hear over the weekend. And, it was wonderful to
see John Wilkinson again, to see Sam Chauncey again. (audience claps) And to remember when I,
would come from school and meet her in her office,
there were always women in the office, they’re all
always and in subsequent years, always students who felt that
that was a safe home for them. So, thank you for your greeting. (audience claps) – Thank you so much for adding this and I’m so glad I cut side of
you around the podium here. Congresswoman Jackson Lee
would like to say something, – For a moment I’m gonna
talk about bathroom break. But
– (mumbles) yeah, go ahead. (audience laughs) – But let me add my appreciation to Elsa’s beautiful daughter
and well, well spoken. She is our (mumbles) and
we thank you so very much. I like experiments, I
like being thrown into a boiling pot and survive
it, of either hot water or cold water but let
me rise particularly. I will speak this afternoon
to express my appreciation for the panel, for my
sister’s fellow travelers and Kurt schmoke, my fellow, shut the Yale campus down
component but keep it. Garry, thank you for your continued humor and political satire
that has made those of us in this life know what reality is. And John
(audience laughs) John you were a lifeline,
we appreciate it very much. I’m just gonna make this,
we really do appreciate it. (audience laughs) President and officers, what I would like to say as a woman of
color, and to thank you to all of the women who
had the brilliant idea to bring us together, so
the bus driver could say that I didn’t look like I
had been here 50 years ago, that was pretty good, (audience laughs)
(audience claps) Let me clearly say in the toxicity of which I live in, in this
world of public service, and this world of attempting
to reach America’s Promise, I valued the welcoming
with its hills and valleys, that Yale had in diversity,
in the midst of all of us, was the beginning of
the cultural diversity and the houses that now exist, that those of us who are (mumbles) who care about the African American house and those who are Latino,
those who are Asian, those who are a variety of advocacies. So in the midst of all of that, we should realize as women, there were this cultural, outside
world from the Vietnam War, to trials that were right down from us, those of us who were here in
that summer or spring of 70, and a Kingman Brewster who came over on pilgrims (mumbles)
meeting his ancestors, I came in a different
boat, was able to keep the stability while this experiment and while we were trying
to find bathrooms, while we were in class, and
I, my children enjoy me saying that I had to run to my
dorm to use the restroom, think that’s all right to be able to say, but the experiment is what I hope as we proceed through this weekend, that we can reflect on, and
even maybe leave this place as a person who deals with
criminal justice reform, you have touched my conscious and, so I’m running back
now with a whole new idea about dealing with the
talent that we tried to say get back into the community, I hope we all have a chance to have a conversation, I’m
delighted with your work. But the point is, I just wanna end on the note of appreciation
of this whole weekend. I have some trials and
tribulations in the Congress, I have some trials and
tribulations in my own district. But I thought it was important enough to be able to come to get
a better understanding of how we can utilize
this experiment even now, some five decades later, and saying that diversity works, that empowering women works, that our ideas are important, and even today, in 2019,
let it be very clear as we advocate for the
Equal Rights Amendment in the United States
Congress and the America, United States of America,
we haven’t passed it yet. So, I wanna thank Yale for being willing to be in the fight, because
you’re still in the fight. And I wanna thank you for allowing the few women of color that
came in that fall of 1969, to have voices to experience
things that were unspeakable, some of us will talk about,
to experience discrimination, to experience embracing, to find sisters that we had never interacted with before, but to be able to attack
this thing called diversity, and to realize that America’s Promise, not yet finished, was, we were part of it, and what Yale was hoping to do, and I was hoping that they continue to do, is to stay part of the
fight for America’s Promise. I went on too long, I know
that you need a bathroom break, but I’m delighted to see all of you. I’m trying to recognize (mumbles) but you all look glamorous, fabulous. Thank you very much, thank you all. (audience claps)

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *