Understanding far-right populism in Europe, with Daan Welling

Understanding far-right populism in Europe, with Daan Welling



hello good evening everyone welcome to this event of the Skoda GBC DCA check out my crib where you can see the background of our room as well as we were chatting about topics you requested for us so today I'm gonna talk about the far-right populist s' in Europe um where do they come from what can we do about it or do we want to do something about it in the first place well how the way I envisioned is like you look like is as follows I am firstly going to talk briefly about the definition of populism because I think that's a division for why populism because I think that's very useful especially because it's quite models of water and people tend to use the word populism just mean outright bath and I think that's unhelpful then we're going to talk about the history of populism in Europe I'm gonna specifically focus on the Netherlands the country I come from and use the example of several populist parties we've had in the US and currently have where they come from what issues are at stake for them and from that history I'm going to build a general framework of what populist think which I think is an incredibly useful tool to have because it makes you understand better what these parties aim for why they are so successful and therefore also understand how difficult is to actually tackle them I am finally going to talk a little bit about how to characterize in debating and how you can use those characterizations or abusive characterizations in order to be better at debating these populist movements as always with these workshops if you have any questions there's a chat which you can fill in can make sure that I see a question pop up and just do that and I'll try to answer those questions and go along I'll read them aloud so everyone can hear them and I hope you're going to have a great session great if you're all here especially skittering the heat way that's currently northwest in Europe I can't imagine you have better things to do if you aren't here but you are listening later that's also great and completely understandable and hope you will learn a lot and also if you are later and you can only and you still have some questions after this workshop video you can of course always ask those questions to YouTube or to the Facebook channel the and we'll make sure that we can try and answer that for you so you can also learn from this video in that way so having said that let's go start with the definition of populism and I think the important bit to think about the definition of populism to think about what goes wrong with that definition it's very often people think obvious and just means catering to the will of the people and the difficulty with that definition is that it seems to include almost all Democratic parties because almost all Democratic party try to cater to the will of the people some what's now populism defines itself in a few different ways so the first aspect of populism is that they have a quite clear notion of what the people is so they think there is a homogeneous group or people with a nation they call the people you can also call off the call to the native peoples there one of the characteristics is they are the ones who have lived within those borders within a nation construct the longest or at the very least for a very long time they also harken back to rituals that's defined who those people are in my country for instance those rituals combined celebration of King's day those in celebration of center class and attacks on those code physicians for instance if they come from colonial times and are seen as insensitive towards minorities or newer members of our societies are therefore seen as an attack all the people by the book lists the second thing that is essential in the framework of populist movements is that they believe that there is an elites that the elites interests are directly opposite to the people's interest so there's currently an established group of people who hold most leverages power in the country be it for instance the political power so the established political parties for instance at a hotel and and won elections for 1800 years in most European democracies but also for it is a media elite and often those are now framed by the right wing is being left wing media elite so they are cultural culturally progressive elites and they believe that those elites are against the desires of the people I think that's the second part it's interesting the third thing that's in front of a populist video a right-wing populist is what their aims you get there because you have both right wing and left wing populists s– and whilst this video one concerns left-wing populist is too much the left-wing populist of course are an interesting side as well you can think of the pink tides a populism in latin america which proved to address the will of the people by having mass redistribution programs you can look at surrey sang free so you can look at podemos in Spain or even to an extent you could think about during a Corbin in UK or even yes a clever in the Netherlands all as being rather populist on the left one thing to do have broad skilled programs and also believe in Italy's currently isn't catering to wards and underclass um those are interesting groups in a big day follow a lot of the same logic the reason where we're focusing on the far right is the thing because that's the most prominent thoroughly gainful mechanism of anti elite opposition it's currently dominant in Europe so I think it's very useful to to talk about them but we can talk about left-wing populist is a you know if you give that question later on in this news feed and I'm more than happy to give examples on them and as a good exercise try and think of where some of the analysis that we're going to talk about later in this workshop where they can also fit into the framework of left wing populism but the right-wing populism if you look at the definition of them they believe a couple of things um the first thing is that they so the one thing that's difficult characterizing them and difficult and in understanding their because most people is following a centrist axis that is for instance because if it rains look at the PVV in the Netherlands they are very right-wing conservative and cultural issues and even they believe fly strictly in a free-market so for instance they article they think that they want to preserve the nativist coach of Netherlands they oppose migration but on economic issue that they cater to a left-wing bias so they one for instance of an enormous of expenditures on health care and elderly care which I can justify with the idea that they want to make this that they want to help the people who they say have built up this country so that's often makes them hard to classify exactly in that way but their most prominent feature is the right-wing elements which is why we often talk about them in right-wing beyond that they tend to very often for various reasons espouse right-wing free-market economics right so for instability the Netherlands whilst they espouse these left-wing ideas in Parliament actually tend to vote to the rights and most political scientists don't even exact like theoretical explanation for what it's the case suggestion in the Netherlands is that this is because he revealed us himself come to came from the VVD the center-right party in Netherlands so he holds those ideas but also that's quite often they are funded by for instance a conservative American groups so they cater to for instance free trade ideas which will prevalence in their donor groups so those are theories but we don't exactly know why they opted for those kind of free-market suggestions even though that's not necessarily part of their core ideology having said that let's talk about the history of populism and we're going to talk talk about like start with history pop lives in Netherlands so the Netherlands is a country that's very much defined by the Second World War experience and the Daedalus was in ruin after the Second World War needs to be rebuilt after the Second World War devastated a large part of the infrastructure of the economy of the people and it weren't enough people at the time to help with the rebuilding project we lacked manpower which is why manpower was shipped in originally from South in Europe and I think that's an important elements to address because nowadays we see the populism very often talks about Muslims as being the / dominant predominant concern but migration first of all Europe came not necessarily from Muslim majority countries but very often in North Western Europe at least it came from southern European countries Italians inodes they were part of the first wave of both reconstruction migrants in Western Europe we started helping rebuild our countries perform a cheap manual labor the intent of the time was that that this would be a non permanent form of settlement so that they would return back to Italy in Spain once most of the jobs were done now we do know that there were tensions back then already between friends Italian groups of migrant workers in the eastern cop for McCausland City ends today and Dutch native is that they were fighting for instance big in bars because they were afraid of the Italians were trying to steal girls and so there were always some under tension skin I think the important thing to recognize here is that there's often a large amount of cultural miscommunication and some people feel that people from the outside can could potentially be a danger to to their way of life so that's day for instance now face more competition for girls that they assume were up for grabs for themselves and then they told me most about men and was the characterization that white men are the only ones who vote populous is a little bit closer to skew those are however the historical documents that we know more about although we do know for is that our model of racialized characteristics in the Netherlands as well there's been in a large amount of there's been a large amount of observations for instance that's upper white women certainly health racialized viewpoints about former colonial servants and so we do see that those kind of elements are were wise particular country and therefore the idea that's just the angry white male is simplistic for a start but the second wave of those migrants came from the Muslim majority countries in the Netherlands it was specifically if people from Turkey and later people from Morocco who in a large part came to the Netherlands in this 1960s and 70s to help with the reconstruction again did those were envisions to be on temporary stays and they were envisioned to leave after a while some of them however choose to remain a choose to take bring their family to from Turkey to the Netherlands and live a life here and this caused some problems with regards to their integration because given that the government at the time hadn't imagined that these people would stay for very long they hadn't really invested in helping them Prince's learn the language learn how the government system worked and how to integrate them in society fully the Prince's housing place available for them very often they worked in local camps and as a consequence these people were not able to fully participate in the rest of the society this was however also a time that was marked very much by – I think imported ideas the first idea was the legacy of the Second World War the legacy of Nazism and thereby the yeah that arose in joins with us in the 1960s of equality for all that racism stereovision was a bad thing and as a consequence you shouldn't negatively portray someone is that to Boondock society to criticize effectively migration policies being ineffective because that felt as fearing too close to criticizing Turkish people Moroccan people or Italian people for their essential characteristics and as a consequence was seen as being too bad at the same time we do have reports from the Ministry of Social Affairs at the time that they didn't fully comprehend or understand the cultural differences in nuances of those people saying its beliefs and what they were and and that they really felt that there was a some form of hierarchy in other words that the Western or Dutch culture was a appreciable culture the one that should be more dominant in our society it are values that are you using the language that the things that we hold dear to us the Dutch myths that we build ourselves in balance of this ideas that we should act like normal that we should be friendly but be relatively reserved in public spaces those are important elements of a cultural life and those are seen as more important than other elements and therefore the idea was that we need to educate them rather than we can learn something from them it was a one-way street in that regard the second wave of migrants that is important in the foundational history of populist movements is with regards to the former colonial subjects I think this this level of analysis doesn't only work for nouns also sets everywhere for France either mentioned it could definitely work for the UK in the Netherlands we had a couple of colonies the most prominent ones being Suriname in the in Latin America that's a country to the north of Brazil and Indonesia which is called Dutch Indies at the time now we had two waves of migrations from those regions the first wave came in in the 1950s after the war of independence in the easier we fought alongside with a group of people who were promised self-determination before in exchange for fighting all such armies working from the mullux and those people therefore when Midlands the villains lost the war for independence couldn't stay in the media so many of them who fought for an Dutch army were shipped to the Netherlands although they were initially for instance housing very poor condition some of them even were housed in a former Nazi concentration camp in Westerbork in the east of the country and it took a long time for them to settle we didn't provide them with very much assistance is that – quite a large amount of agreements amongst a mockolate population coupled with the fact that they felt betrayed as they felt that they were promised a home that they didn't receive which made it very the children of these well looks started to rebel in the 1970s his friends is led to a capture of the trains where they try to have to take a train hostage which eventually had to be solved by army intervention this is I think still predominantly controversial topics to talk about the Netherlands that are still reaches going on to exactly what happens and who owes whom an apology in the regard with some elopes community feeling that the army took it too far in trying can they kill some of the captures in that regard the second wave of migrants from the Netherlands came from Suriname and those were people who generally came from Surinam from early onwards the interesting thing with Syria as well is that the Syrian people were tried to be pushed away from those people shows very little interaction in Suriname between Dutch and ceramic subjects in of itself but many of them moved to Suriname move from server into the Netherlands many of them left having the independence because I felt that the Surinamese newly established government was a weekend they wouldn't provide much economic prosperity and they wanted to gain his opportunity to grant Dutch citizenship you can blame them because they do certain amount in advance 1975 and only fears after a military dictatorship under the rule of days about Ursa ruptor there who kills many dissidents in the December killings so you can't really fault them for that but they also trouble integrating parts of the Netherlands although they are now seen as one of the more strongly integrated ones together with the Indian nations they did phrases profess difficulty with some of those traditions predominantly the one about black Piet which is a blackface caricature of a black man which walks around with our version of Santa Claus and there's a very prominent amazing current Dutch society about whether or not this is a racist or non racist tradition so those are the migration streams and wise migration streams wiring I said before at immigration streams let's do some difficulty because the Dutch government didn't have correct policies in actually helping them integrate so number one they didn't have policy for language exist in the first place in number two they had a rather simplistic notion that that integration should be a one-way street where we don't take into account two cultural preferences of minorities and as a consequence it was a lack of integration from for minorities certainly from people who arrived but also to send their sons and daughters were often called second generation migrants and even third generation migrants had difficulty adapting to Dutch life in Dutch culture at the same time criticizing this idea and professing for policy solutions was something that was seen as a very negative thing because it felt that was a racist thing to do in that backdrop well we've both we have had populist parties before and you used to have a go coach micro populist parties that those are groups that's predominately focus on the interests of farmers because they believe that farmers were hit taken waiter incentives by the elites the urban elites who didn't care about farming your life um the big I think Releford benefit public movement came with the election of the centrum part-time in the 1982 and their leader hunts young mats into the Parliament on gentleman was a quite controversial figure he said things that nowadays I think haired welders would say if he's on a generous day and back in the time were truly scandalous thing to say he coined the phrase that the Netherlands is full and foo is full and he was an incredibly controversial and pop and polarizing figure how did the Dutch establishment treat his man with contempt the weighted Hans element in a sense import I were treated was with the policy of cordon sanitaire in other words closed ranks policy that meant that this person was not engaged with on the parliamentary floor people would literally leave the Parliament as soon as he would start speaking the media was very negatively portraying him in his few points and it's even a to a climate where an attack on his life was made by ultra-left activists during a party congress where his he escapes I think his wife lost her leg um and he was CEO gotta be demonized now the populist movement of the center part I faded out in the late 1990s and the ideas for that were a couple the first one was in fighting with young man's and his other members of the party who couldn't manage to sustain their a viewpoints there were difference of you points but also they hadn't gained much traction in elections they were kind of stalling and as a consequence it was seen that the movement was lacking there was general discontent in the ranks of the central part I the second idea was that the VVD the center-right party which is roughly comparable to the Tories in the UK or the CDU in Germany or the wimpy in France they started under the leadership of Hans Riegel the start started to take over some of the ideas center of retain the very least criticizing elements of migration as they saw was being pragmatic and fits Boca Stein who later became the intellectual father of hair builders to the direction further in the 1990s amongst the DVD so in 1990s we didn't have that much of a populist movement but then late in the 90s and early 2000s a man called Binford China rose on the Dutch scene Binford time had a couple of very interesting characteristics for one he was flamboyantly outward gay and I think that's important to recognize because the are quite a large amount of early white gay people who vote for populist parties and their reason had not so much to do as nothing to do with general fear of migrations or the idea that migration related to a posed a fear specifically the cultural aspect of some migrant cultures they feel that they feared that this is these are anti-gay cultures and they feel threatened in the ability to be gay and this was the same for him for time he believed as a consequence in Islam was anti-gay and that he was going to be present by the second I think interesting element of computer was that he was a member of the liberal intelligentsia he was a lecturer at the University at the Erasmus University Rotterdam so he wasn't necessarily a people a person who could say that he belong to the people in that regards if you look at his background he's very much be a part of the elite and I think you see that across multiple elements so neither Faraj princes it was I think Oxford educated or LSE educated don't run for for instance is a multi millionaire billionaire who was grew up in a family of wealth and I think therefore their personal characterizations where they come from it seems to be as important as the way they speak for it so but they have all common strands a very large capacity to want to speak plain language and language that friends the divers understandable to the people we often just communicate at a far simpler level as the elite they use less complicated words and I think that's an important element to take into account as well in order understanding where there's a mechanic pool between the elites figure heads of the populist movement and the people themselves pin for time grew up in a world or intellectually grew up in a world where similar hand Huntington's clash of civilization became an good idea and the main precursor to the end of history cases of Francis Fukuyama so we look at the eye logy debate of the 1990s after the fall of the Soviet of the Soviet Union Francis Fukuyama proclaims the end of history by which he meant that the history of ideas of what society is best has been fought and won by democratic liberalism in response or partial response MO Huntington wrote his thesis The Clash of Civilizations it was he predicted that our civilization which are immutable in the characteristics can see eye to eye know characteristics endeavor would sooner rather than later clash in their viewpoints and some of these in one of these culture will see the liberal Western culture other coaches were for instance the Islamic cultures of the Middle East and favorite time was an Editors of the Huntington thesis believed therefore that this clash was inevitable but also believed that there was a superiority of Western liberal thought over that of Muslim Islamic colony believed that Islamic thought was not something you could join in with liberal thought that is Islam would of boast Western liberalism so that was one of his founding ideas and that's why he believed that Islam was a danger and what you see here and I think it's very important to note is that there's a shift here from very much in the late 20th century where there was a fear of migration in general and those were cultural reasons but they were definitely also for economic reasons the idea of job displacement the idea of feeling unsafe because people couldn't for instance criminals in house well but now we move towards an ideological representation there's an idea that these migrants that they form an ideology it stands against our culture and the thesis of oculist's is that open migration was allowed by delete often the left-wing IDs and therefore the lead has sold itself out for the to the people for these migrants that's the one of the foundational excesses of populist belief that then I think is very important to recognize because those who understand makes it understandable why many current leave parties have a lack of standing in the case of been pretending to move back to our history lesson did this standing was exacerbated to the second sign was exacerbated due to the murder of binford island on the 6th of May 2001 sorry 2002 it was murdered by animal rights activist corporate underhay and in the in the days and weeks leading up to Pemberton the Dutch the lead system try to use same technologies on young map before in other words the cordon sanitaire tactic we're going to demonize you we're going to call you an evil man we're going to say that we don't want to govern with you we think we could say the root of spicing you and he himself had said beforehand um I feel threatened and if there's gonna be an attack of my life I know where this would come from and I would not be surprised if such an attack would actually occur on my life so when he was shot one of his deputies in his party said that the bullet came from the left and this led therefore to the selling out of the left-wing elite in the Netherlands as being responsible for the murder of someone who finally spoke truth about problems with regards to migration and problems with regards to Islam this idea then became challenged further by what eventually would be so the person who took over the throne of Binford Dionysus and manacles here builders who separated in 2004 from his party DVD to try and build his own movement the DVD the party for freedom this explains in a backdrop of a of what I think is the first prominent European post 9/11 act of Islamic extremism namely the murder of the Dutch provocateur theater maker Vincent sorry Theo van Gogh a a relative just distant relative of Vincent van Gogh the famous Dutch painter who had worked together with the Somali born DVD parliamentarian I initially who now is known as a conservative pundit in the United States where she now lives and she and they had for instance folk to buy the fact sheet they believed Islam to be incomprehensible and sorry incommensurate with the with women's rights he was shot by a man called Muhammad Bey a member of the Hofstede group which is an extremist Islamic organization which operated from the hague on the bay now languages in prison indefinitely for life in his court case if you're so inclined to retouches it's highly interesting to look at that is one of the first attempts of justice of judges to understand Islam extremism their motive motivation and wydad therefore at motivationally trades is to a crime with intent in the first place and the definition of that thing is highly fascinating well worth the read of course if you want to read about it in English which I agree to do you should read I am Burma's a book about it which I currently am forgetting the titles I'm trying to look it up so you can see at the end of this workshop maybe but are in Burma I wrote a book about the killing of the–of uncle kind of consequence an underside which i think is deeply fascinating and very much worth a look and I think it's it's lessons are applicable across the Netherlands to the two very much other countries as well hey Billis in it like I said in 2004 took over and he slowly radicalized his few points so he started out with saying we want a a stop on the building of mosques now he wants too much for mosques he has proposed a ban on the Koran a ban on headscarves a ban on the burqa which in limited fashion has translated into legislation in the past our parliament this man is a firebrand and he currently consistently pulls at roughly 15 to 20 percent of the pull of the of the polls and takes as many seats in our Parliament's and has done so for more than a decade that's where we currently are the response of cordon sanitaire of course was no longer possible although in our last election in which took place March this year every party like almost everybody said they would not form a government governing coalition with catalysis PPV which is one of the reasons we're currently our partners deadlock to trying to form a new government because there are simply very human medical possibilities possible right now and converse has in the past supported however a supply confident any conference and and supply chain coalition with the two center-right parties of the VVD in the CDA which is roughly the Christian and the secular conservative parties in Netherlands although that won't last for a year and a half after Eden wants to enter into negotiations needed we needed to have to deal with the euro crisis 2012 so I said we didn't have the possibility to approach the cordon sanitaire so there's been two approaches that different taking place the first one is is direct opposition which is predominately be done by the left and the progressive parties so the the the the Liberal Democrats dish party for us call 2d 66 gained large amount of popularity with elite Alexander's vessels trying to take builders hat on calling him a racist explaining why he thinks he's a racist and that's the first element of katowice rights the other one is an appeasement critique believing that there is a legitimate value that the voters we can build as hold and effort wanted to come to a sort of negotiation where we try to moderate your stances this is what many center-right parties have done for instance Dave Sackett they've taken their stances with regards to to integration they've made integration far more mandatory they've more profess the idea that people needs to adopt cultural integration that it needs to learn the language and if they we find if they don't learn that similarly that we should restrict the amount of migration we should state the amount of refugees that we enter into our countries as well as believing that there is a problem with the integration that there is a problem of so for instance the problems that if they believe are we have a large amount of crime relative to the proportion of the population taking place by Moroccan and Antillean youth although most criminologist sighs assistance takes that if you look at the income disparity within these groups compared to the general population income disparity can be one of the leading explains Reuters more crime within these groups the cultural explanations have been a predominately popular thing to discuss in the Netherlands and ever therefore believe there's a lack of well mil raise it of well parenting there's a lack of discipline within these communities like of calling these kids out and irresponsibility and a feeling of like princeling cultured these firmly the boys can do whatever they want as part of the traditional culture and that is the predominant idea within a large part of the places why that trying rights are so high and this is also something that for that center-right governing coalition FFF try to see so to address in those terms so they apiece to the ability of gate builders throughout the people by moving closer to what the people want and trying to help them in that regard given this given this history given where we are right now give it a polarizing the base that we took that we talked about so we talked about recruited debate about criminality the debate about the other ideology of Islam and phrases and I it's the anti-gay tendencies of some members of Islamic communities or even the anti-semitic Tennessee said some of them tends to slice as well as generally their their lack of economic integration and then finally the fact that many my grins argue that they oppose nativist cultural traditions it's like like repeat or for instant frowns are against secularism because they believe secularism to be in a oppressive construct an anti Islam construct there are three things I think that many populist voters believe in so the first thing I think many of them believe in is the idea that migration is economically negative so they believe in a zero-sum game of limited amount of jobs and that migrant people take over jobs that could have gone to nativist Dutch people let's the firmus itself in the idea that the native is Dutch people are the ones that the government should go menu carrots of about because they are the people that leads need to take care of themselves the second idea is the idea of cultural superiority and the belief that the other culture is not just not just inferior to us for instance a day believe that this culture could be inferior towards women could be inferior towards out of liberal values specifically this cultures out there with an agenda to try and take over and therefore they believe for instance islamification could exist that there's a there's an agenda Saima fication across many Western European states that would want to take over and have their value system and Sharia law and shrines within this and an end to the liberal values a day themselves support a third thing we haven't talked about this a lot the third idea is with regards to a belief that the European project is a key contributing factor to these elements and therefore discipline is dangerous as well and here's where sometimes meet left-wing populist as well although their rationale behind disliking Europe is different so left-wing populist s– dislike Europe because they believe it is a symbol of neoliberalism that is to say but they believes that the European Union tries to push forward free-market thinking even if that is dangerous for instance to local industries or infant industries of underdeveloped nations even if even if it enshrines the power of corporate elites who can now make more money and true regulations and we're confounding things and there's a genuine Democratic deficit in Europe so that that's the idea of the center left center right beliefs that the free market and certainly the freedom of movement is exacerbating problems with Margaret's trying to move into other countries where they economically and culturally are distorting this country so with silk'n here friends also about the influx Eastern European migrants after ten European countries joins to you mm I think I think it could be 2000 informal entirely certain anymore and therefore to something that's the purpose of those purpose riled against as well is that of course it's going on longer in the United Kingdom because United Kingdom has had a far more ambivalent relationship with the EU since its joining in the first place but has become a popular rallying point amongst populist in the early part of the 20th century certainly as an extension of ten full of more countries to the European Union so that's what they believe in that regard so I'm going to take a cell water if you have any questions feel free to write now because I'm I've moved a little bit far away from this street bars and took the ideology bars and this means that we're now going to talk a little bit more about features and how to use them in debating if any questions about this part or is applicable experience in other countries feel free to ask question so I look at the group checker in the description option and I am not seeing any chats here so I'm going to assume this means that are no questions currently outstanding and I'm just gonna move on a to the next so features a populist thought just to UM very briefly its rate for people who work left in they believe there's an elite and a people and at the elite and and the people are juxtaposed to each other in other words that the alinker delete is opposing towards the people they're very strategies therefore that you can entertain and try to use to combat populism the first one is try to ignore them to use what we called cordon sanitaire or closed ranks strategy and try to ignore them in that regard the second thing is started to piece them by which we mean we try to take over some of their few points believing that there is a a reasonable rationale behind some of the things they say there is a common ground behind some of the things we say try to move them and persuade the people because we have now taken a more moderate stance and it is now okay any popular strategy over the third strategy is direct support which is that we try to work the getaway the populist party however that often has been proven difficult so we've asked why in confidence governments in the Netherlands but also in Denmark and Sweden and Finland and in scandium countries and sometimes even from particle relation governments the difficulty for these populist movement is very off center relatively unstable they often are built on the backbone of one or a small group of leaders notice for instance the alternativa for Deutschland which hasn't managed to belly itself amongst a single leader in a very large part because the AF day has had difficulties finding out what branch of populism they support most are they as they used to be founded a predominantly NTEU idea two things that they use getting is creating a bad deal for Germany are they anti migration or even specifically anti Islam elements of that exist in the entire party but will to take the dominant course and if some of these things who take the course is heavily up for debate and that's why that's a large amount of infighting amongst the l7000 photo-etch lands because they've tried to set us up democratically and which my friends they also did the post of their leader earlier this year and which is why it's unlikely they will be holding a make a very large amount of voting chair in the upcoming elections although it is projected today at least we'll get some seats in the Bundestag the fourth option is to directly try to refute them and I think the interesting and compelling idea about refutation why it work and doesn't work is the exact idea of the elites have sold the people out which I think very many traditional center-left movements have been highly ineffective because they have by the people are seen quite large amount of the problem so if you look at the voting profile for instance of the PVV in the Netherlands but also other parties many of these people either didn't fold at all and belongs to which you can subscribe to be broadly construed as the Labour class or used to film for center-left parties and they feel no betrayed by the center-left parties because they feel that migration has been a root cause for um for their for their prayer doesn't it for their negative life situations and which is why I think anyone on what Cronus a fascinating example because I think what a Manimal Crone is is someone who manages to effectively communicate that he isn't part of Italy so we can use the similar ideas at the centre life is certainly the center center-left has had over the past 10 15 years after the folds with Union and the embracement of like capitalism amongst left's in Europe but without the idea of being part of the lis that ultimately the first bite being a fresh young face and ever offering new solutions and ever also being able to say um I can offer you solutions for your plight because I do think the delete has filtered that regard which is why I think that an interesting idea is that a month that the best antidote to right-wing populism might in some cases be less wing populism that they may very much must not come from the elite in regard difficulty of course there is also that nowadays the way in which that many people perceive this news is true news media as well so if you look for instance at the Daily Mail in the United Kingdom or if you look at the net allows you to get the tailor shop or online peplos like Yalta Dalton l or the dark Lexus tumblr the daily centres bearer those are a group of people who predominantly classes old rights which means that which means that a they take into account a European right-wing truth use the other hand they take into account classic small state views classic conservative views there's an overlap but a conservative new movement is growing closer together in a mini media outlet Liao does that they use with the populist right and as a consequence it definitely comes harder for left for left-wing movements and ideas to to tackle the populist movements because they are now also attacked on their economic policies and their moral policies of redistribution versus the ability to do you gain your own wealth in regards to think that is one of the challenges in order for those direct contributions to progressive movements are having difficulties with in our societies so a couple of outstanding issues there for I think the first sa issues regards to the photo base who votes for these parties um because I think the predominantly large voter base that we often talk about is the working-class whites and the idea behind them is that they vote for instance because a they believe they're economically disenfranchised they have a lack of jobs in a regard and they believe that those jobs have been taken over by migration waves there's little economic evidence to suggest that this is the case but that's a firmly held belief and I think this is also a failure of explaining exactly what the contributory causes have been for these economic downturns because I think equally we could talk about a ultimate ization we could talk about globalization as being predominant narratives and suggestions to why job growth and wage growth has stagnated over the past 10 15 years for a look for a group within society but that those narratives haven't been made very successfully because most of the bodies have in mainstream parties for the past 15 20 years I started defending the status quo politically speaking and the consequence the populist idea had been seen as the only alternative and I think the same goes for the European Union more more federalism was seen as the only option and populist have been the only ones who offered a genuine alternative to a more federalized European Union that something that there were people who were dissatisfied with the option of the status quo flux towards the populist right I'm ester precursor in that regard so they are the biggest group with there are other groups as well so interesting to notice it's very many Hindus in the Netherlands but also Indian English people vote for UK and United Kingdom um and that's in part because the Islam critique is something that is popular amongst Hindus certain goes Indian descent as well because there's large amount of like hostility within that region between Muslims and Hindus which is something that can be preyed upon so there are other minority groups who feel for instance there's also that name being given to them by certain groups and they believe there's a harsher treatment necessary from these groups themselves secondly um there are like I said a some some highly educated conservative right-wing people and a interesting group there's quite a large amount of white LBGT people who vote for these parties again because of the angle believing that their hard-won freedoms could be taken in by migrants and also our figures that suggest that are more people for instance when Wilson ascended in the loans who are negative towards gay rights majority of them are positive about the Kay prize so this isn't it doesn't seem to hold with the critique or idea that this is an ideology in that regards I think that's an important frame notification counter second thing we took into about leadership structures as set these are often quite elitist people who take into a parent and that's I think necessary because you need to have know how resources and to be in a circle in order to build a political campaign machine that's why it's it's quite likely these people come in latest it was tend to be largely focused around individuals it turns out to be incredibly difficult to find good people to support you notice a large amount of scandals that have always erupted it amongst back benches of populist parties in the Netherlands we've had a man who after a fight with his neighbor pissed in the letterbox of their neighbors we've had a spokesperson for DV who stole large amount of money in order to fund his coke and gambling addiction we've had people who've lied about cursing fees of the LPF had a woman who suggested that she had never met the dictator base about reserved only for 8 hours later a photograph to appear showing her side by side with Daisy about a sir so there's always a cast of clowns that's available and it's very hard for them to find tentative candidates which widely let's to be individualist organization that regards the nellis now is an interest experiment where a new populist party from the old right intellectual elites trying to form called forum for democracy spearheaded by a former Leiden University island called GLA baoddai and who tries to try and orbit right anymore brought popular movement amongst the elite as well and it's it's I think generally concerning but also fascinating from intellectual perspective to see where they will develop themselves in that regard the third thing and now we're moving slightly more toward abating the beatty things is that what I think we need to understand is the strength of their appeal given all that we talked about so what we see is firstly that they hold limited power currently within our political systems the electoral power seems to be relatively capped to twenty twenty-five percent of the votes in most countries of course depending on your electoral system that might mean to send a chance of winning a majority if their electorate would have been spread out spread out relatively well or they stand a chance to be a seat holder in Parliament which takes place in the Netherlands which has a very proportional system which almost equates like one fold one seat kind of principle in that regard and they hold similar powers across that but they therefore have a agenda-setting power I can use social media they can use the the media discussion they can use the provocative this in order to set the agenda and discuss very much all mobility of migrants and an genuinely the needle has moved our countries are far more critical of migrants than they've ever been in the past if you look for instance at the 2005 election pamphlet of gilda's if 50 points on curbing migration curbing Islam Islamization although 1510 are currently professed by the VVD CDA and they are currently forming a government trying to form a government that would include reinstitute progressive of these 66 and it's likely some of these policies will get passed so we definitely see a window movement than they've had a jettison power in a past actual governing power has proved to be pickles for them for instance because they lacked a talent pool to effectively move in that regard but also because there I'm going to speak for the people who speak without platitudes and without nuance means that when they have to or go into the hard battle of governing and therefore sometimes making compromises they tends to fill that's why for instance gate builders blew up a government after a year and a half because he didn't want to raise the pension age and it wants to say that it was okay with reforms needed after the euro crisis so that's the extent to the power they have but they also have power very much in the minds of people so this is just about politics is about like and I never popped policy it's just about how do people perceive themselves on the grounds and we have seen for instance after every terrorist attack in France in UK in the Netherlands we've seen a rise of anti-muslim incidents as well we have in the Netherlands had a molotov cocktail thrown at a mosque we've had a mosque that was being built in Leiden that was a where construction was hold for a couple of days because people tried to take over the drain of that mosque we've had asylum seeker centres which have been heavily opposed were riots taking place in the city of teal with a severed pig's head being a written outside of the Brabant town of Hayes I think that's the dangerous element there similarly they are motivating themselves they have their own media channels they have their own Facebook pages um so most on sometimes they they manage to have stories that are factual and they'd become leading causes so there have been incidents of sexual assault for instance taking place for migrants and refugees former refugees and those have been leading precursors to suggest that all they're saying about these refugees is correct and right even though I think the proper an illegal Internet is that this is a man problem because sexual assault sadly is incredibly prevalent amongst in in Europe headline figures from a new European program suggested one in three women who phrases get abused sexually within her lifetime and so therefore is its if you have tens of thousands people come in each answer some of them would ever commit sexual assaults due to their masculinity rather than due to their Islamic background and seems to me to be a compelling explanation for that but those have been leading Costa d'etre from large amount of resistance within a regard we have seen popular movement spread up the Paquita movement is protesting amongst Germany and has had shoot offs in other countries as well so we do see there's elements of rice over there successful combatants of populist movements have been both giving them what they want some extent because you give us collapse after exits give you those seams have stores in the polls with some of the votes being gained towards the DVD right now I or directly counteracting their belief system by offering alternative explanations to the plight of people and importantly this this can often to be dead or better done by outsiders but although we don't have a convincing answer towards opposite it seems that just calling them racist a large amount of times isn't enough because the problem is is that they ball state they they hold clearly racist views it is too simple to say that they're racists they look at certain generally existing problems of society look at them to racist lens or Terrain anti-islamic lens or to an Android migration lens and therefore profess policy solutions based on those ideas and therefore what you need to have to counteract populist movements is generally a counter narrative about the exact from Tsar I think that's the key takeaway I'd want you to have within this discussion similarly the backlash can be real but it's often limited so when people talk about afraid of conservative bad guys when they say you don't want to have a certain policy being entered into a debate because you're afraid of the type of backlash as this with course notices factors exist but it's quite limited power is limited protests are limited ink and encounter protests do exist and relatively generally occur against movements big ideas always had a counter protest in the Netherlands whenever it rose up which has roughly equal amount of people who came to that protest as well we've had marches in favor of migrants mark we've we've had a walk in favor of refugees trying to collect money generally there is a civil society that takes a anti populist stance and I think they have a similar pool in that regard so it is a battle of ideologies and the idea that populace are now taking over Europe which you could get maybe if you'd read some media nowadays I think is exaggerated to that extent what is worrying I think it's European level because we haven't managed to create a counter-narrative to the European level I think that's by and large because I think populist have been most reasonable on the European level I think that the critique on Europe has been most reasonable in that regard because Europe genuinely has had issues with explaining where they come from they've genuinely has issues with explaining where the economic policy program would work in that regard and generally it's a difficulty trying time together with this value system Europe is now currently undergoing a fascinating move where the EU and Brussels is trying to be more and more critical of countries that are becoming anti-democratic as taking away a large amount of structural funds for Hungary in response to Hungary becoming more and more belligerent against liberal NGOs and I am imagining Poland's might be next on that list if they solve up the courage to take upon one of the largest country in the EU in ever guard but all in all populist sad reasonable critiques of the EU underlying of course some baseless assumptions underlying very much I think the wrong policy prescription for how to deal with the problems of the EU but there have been very hard to build a cabinet an era to the regard it seems the election of Donald Trump and the wake up that that is caused for me moderates in Europe as many said that critique astho's and atherson believes that mini corporation is necessary notice our big military ally across transatlantic at least seems to be less likely to hold our head in favor but that's I think also an issue that is currently unsolved this is all I have to say um I haven't I said I haven't seen any questions pop up but if you do have any questions feel free to ask them I don't know needs a YouTube feed or underneath the Facebook post that has been set up by Olivia I think in a communist case or group or he's got a CBC Group I really enjoyed talking to you hope you enjoyed listening to this well um I set and there are some literature reviews you can have so I what I suggest is you use a you read the iron rule book which I'm going to go very quickly to find out what is I think it's called a murder in Amsterdam and I'm not entirely certain I think it isn't fascinating yeah um in that regard it's called murder Amsterdam it is very good book to understand the way which society reacted to that Paris killing and I think that's important too um it I think it's still relevant even ten years after it has been said um I would also suggest that you'd anomaly just trying following the news and looking back archives of the Economist before Anna Faris had a very interesting issue about from opium afterwards which might which was relatively okay I'm actually protocol to I think or cleared princess begin from and the other issues from home because Trump operates within a very different political context that he operates within be content within the conservative right party rather than providing alternative to the conservative right party in that regard and what I also suggest you do if you live in a country where physics is the I suggest you walk on the streets and start judgment-free conversation with populist s– because one of the most fascinating conversations I've ever had with a PVV voter has left me so I was looking for answers in how to combat the population which I personally think is a wrong ideology is a conversation of a woman who lived was in her fifties and she had to take care of her elderly and very ill grandma sorry mother and um she was very able to unable to to for the wages her husband have been laid off and in her streets a refugee family has started living in an a moved in new for engine of discouraged er was given us grants by a well-meaning volunteers and her question was how can they get so much lost I don't get anything I don't have enough money to take care of my L leigh-anne ill mother who is currently being little lying unwashed and early pension care which is understaffed underfunded our welfare payments are slashed how do I get less lost a and everything and to be honest I think it is incredibly hard to format an answer to her that is fair and that makes it understandable enemies understandably shouldn't vote for a populist and you could argue of course in the abstract that's these refugees aren't to blame for that is definitely the government who needs such funding priorities differently and that they can both provide for refugees as well as provide for better health care and social welfare system and there are options to do that you have to increase the taxation or have other policy priorities but I think it is a incredibly difficult conversation to have so if you want to know more of a proposition I suggest everyone if you genuinely are concerned I'm going to learn more ways talk with people who vote for these parties not with prejudgment not trying to convince them but talk what moves them I think that's an incredibly important few points to add to your discussion and then read the liberal media you might read and read why all the problem analysis that these people have high school is is wrong but understandably wrong thank you very much and I hope you can have a very pleasant evening goodbye

2 thoughts on “Understanding far-right populism in Europe, with Daan Welling

  1. Europeans don't want to be replaced in their own homelands. Why should they? It's as simple as that.

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