TMBS – 99 – Lessons From Syriza & Beating Anti-Bernie Bias ft. Krystal Ball & Joshua Kahn

TMBS – 99 – Lessons From Syriza & Beating Anti-Bernie Bias ft. Krystal Ball & Joshua Kahn

[Applause] [Applause] [Applause] [Applause] yes indeed boo yes indeed hiss 52 percent of American Millennials would like to live in a socialist or communist America socialism here in America [Applause] [Applause] [Applause] you see people's feedback loops interrupting seems that there's a much more negative view of fascism than communism become argue your points they go ad hominem somebody's gonna have to explain the whole Fox feel to me [Applause] [Applause] you mr. centers third-world debt is estimated to be roughly four hundred and twenty billion dollars lots of that Oh to financial institutions in the United States failure on that that could bring down not only our economy the world economy what can be what can the u.s. do to help third-world countries get a handle on that debt well as you know the cause of the debt is that huge banks in the United States which do not have the capital available to provide funding for affordable housing in the United States which do not have the funding available to help Americans provide decent develop decent jobs understood that they had the opportunity of making tremendous sums of money by lending huge amounts to undeveloped countries at very very high interest rates and what's going on in the world as the price of commodities fail these countries are unable to pay back the debt and then with the large international financial groups are doing is telling these countries to cut back on programs for their people to lower the amount of food that their people receive that their workers earn in income squeeze them as hard as they can so they can pay back their debts to the huge banks and I think what you're seeing now is a disastrous policy on the part of the huge banks I think what has got to happen is the united states government led by the congress has got to bring the underdeveloped countries together with the banks and work out a sensible payback program which will not include all of the money there's no question you can't get it furthermore we've got to develop economic programs with the third world which will stimulate their country not drain their countries so that in fact they can begin to have the wealth to make some paybacks welcome to the Michael Brooks show we're broadcasting live from downtown Brooklyn USA where left is best as it is everywhere else it's super producer you know chief economist David Griscom how's it going and of course we've got everybody else in the extending full-t MBS universe welcome to each and every one of you thank you to the whole team and crew making this all possible on this week's program crystal ball she's host of rising for the hill you've seen her brilliant political analysts were talking about the media's war on Bernie how to respond and what is a long term progressive strategy to deal with the myriad crises that this country faces and also build a long-term project for power than Joshua Khan he's the executive director of the wildfire project he is our movement building coach and strategist we've introduced him before he's here in studio tonight to talk about tactics that can help you whether you're in a movement of thousands of people or five people more tutorials last time we talked about how the Simpsons could lead you through a campaign we're getting deep and diving in on tactics tonight also talking about are the first peoples first nations peoples resistance in Hawaii at katakana mana huh what is the name of that David you know where the telescope is being built on that important mountain I apologize the name just complainer Kea Mauna Kea the name just escaped me apologies also of course shout-out to Puerto Rico where the resistance is in full effect but of course there's a bigger context in terms of resisting the crisis in Puerto Rico taking on the United States colonialism and vulture capitalism in the postgame we have a debunk with professor ben burgess we're taking on lies about the minimum wage Boris Johnson is prime minister in the United Kingdom we'll talk about that the Yemeni ceasefire might be back on but the Houthis are actually winning if anybody can win in the genocide of context of that war and Donald Trump mediator for Kashmir between India and Pakistan all that and much much more in the postgame and of course we have a gem with David Griscom a whole bunch to get to but first let's talk about elections in Greece that took place earlier this month and more specifically the loss of syriza and the lessons that syriza holds for the global left when serezha took power in 2015 they were a point of inspiration internationally for multiple reasons one was because it was Ana genuine electoral breakthrough and success for a serious Left party a party that had its roots in Marxist critique in socialist vision and even in some areas and anarchist uprising politics and also seemed like a potential bright spot for Greece that had been suffering under the obscene economic tyranny of the International Monetary Fund and the European Union which had demanded a consistent steady and ruthless diet of austerity that was spiking poverty inequality decimating Greek society leading to public suicides and a myriad of other social ills all of the crises of modern neoliberalism austerity and capitalism were magnified in Greece very analogous to the World Bank and IMF policies that the United States and European Union have exported across the world for a year and and unfortunately four years later what we have seen is basically the complete capitulation of syriza to global capital and the victory of the right-wing new democratic party the return to power not only of a traditionally of a traditional Greek party but in fact the conservative one not the center-left socialists the Greek Greece has been in recession for five years with GDP hitting the lows of minus 10 percent serezha was elected in 2015 on a platform of helping those most in poverty and ending austerity the immediately faced relentless pushback from the ECB IMF and European Commission they held a referendum and this was a key breaking point for them where they put – the Greek people do you want us to resist the troika reject the new demands for austerity and cuts and see if we can chart another course 61 percent of Greeks fresh off of electing syriza to power voted that Greece should reject the deal despite having the people with them cereza immediately capitulated to the troika and implemented its demands they got nothing for it politically and that set in motion a series of hard right moves by cereza not just in terms of austerity and economic policies but arms sales to Saudi Arabia cooperating with the most reactionary and the dicta of European Union immigration policies and a complete capitulation of making the broader argument that Yanis varoufakis who of course was the economics minister who resigned and protests over this made that was true which is that not only was the demands on cereza vicious and counterproductive it obscured the roots of the crisis which absolutely included a central role of European core economies like Germany and global financial institutions that helped juice up a sort of artificial growth in Greece and things like the real estate sector that the structural problems in Greece which have to do with tax avoidance by oligarchs concentrations of capital and wealth that were facilitated and eased in place by institutions like Goldman Sachs and investors from core European Union countries that Greece had to obscure the need to recapitalize German and French banks that without going to a direct bailout for European country from Central European countries themselves they went to Greece and mandated this austerity as a way of migrating the money back and now serezha in spite of a energetic effort at the ends of the campaign in an attempt to sort of reassert itself in the center-left and even some legitimate arguments from syriza that frankly their hands may have been tied although clearly the politics in the history showed that they needed to make a more bold choice to have any hope of political survival and any hope most importantly for their constituencies what are the lessons for the United States and the United Kingdom as we run an election trying to get Bernie Sanders elected president here as Jeremy Corbyn will soon be facing down this buffoon Boris Johnson from the beginning our opponents will work to undermine us look at the relentless media war on Jeremy Corbyn and Bernie Sanders for that matter there are limits to state power and the wealthy will use everything they have to undermine progressive governance capital flight disinvestment as well as the media war that we mentioned before you're not going to be rewarded for being conciliatory look at Brazil Lula da Silva lifted tens of millions out of poverty without jeopardizing the fundamental growth rates of core Brazilian industries in fact enhancing them in the commodities boom he's now a political prisoner denied power and basic due process in spite of the fact that he was able to create a win-win for everyone simply because his core commitment is to the poor conciliatory will not help you Cerises willingness to drive austerity did not win them any victories and they are blamed for its failures the Bernie Sanders campaign and a revitalized Labor Party are driven by movements winning power is the old for the first step in a serezha and pretty much every elected left-wing government shows rhetoric is one thing but commitment to and harnessing social power is another the wealthy have tremendous power outside of elected office the challenge that power a strong organized social movement is needed to achieve anything transformative supporting movement candidates like Corbin and Sanders is key because they can harness these movements to achieve these goals and these movements will keep them honest and accountable to a broader shared vision do you guys have anything that you want to add to this yeah I mean you know we're not saying this to sort of beat down on a country that's sort of lower on the totem pole of global imperialism I mean there are a lot of constraints that Greece faced but when you look at that referendum and you saw people in the streets and understand the context of what was going on at that time Europe the the European Commission the ECB they shut down the ATMs yep going into that vote so you know and that was holding a country hostage holding a people hostage and even still the Greek people were defined and they were ready to fight and capitulating on that even though it would have been so difficult was a real loss I mean you know think that remember cereza their party name was the rattle the coalition of the radical left this was a movement that was really supposed to challenge power and they ended up trying to find a way to be conciliatory to it and even as they're leaving you know let's not forget that this is you know it's going to go on for a very long time obviously with new democracy in power now but they agreed to austerity up until 2060 or and holding a 2.5 percent budget surplus I mean it's like it's horrendous or what's happened so when we look at these the opportunities for the left to win power we can't just think that winning an election is the end you have to be able to use those social movements because the powers that be are going to use everything that they have to try to crush any kind of radical change and I think we need to also be honest about the uncertainty especially in a context like that I mean they absolutely are a subject power so as an example I mean other ways look someone like Sanders will literally face the heart of empire some respects if he's president and I'm only slightly being melodramatic there but on the other hand even you know being head of the United Kingdom you're not pegged to the euro being head of the United States you are running the most powerful country on earth Greece is absolutely in subordinate position in the global to the global system so I don't like this scenario I don't like the counter-argument that everybody makes oh it's just they didn't want it enough they got corrupted I think these lessons get very lazy but I do think that there was a moment of clear uncertainty for syriza where they could have chosen to fundamentally challenge the troika and it might have been a great failure but the problem is is that they accepted the frame at the end of the day that they weren't already in complete abject failure and so that's the point is that it might have been an extraordinary risk and we can't guarantee the success that would be misleading but the risk simply needed to be taken because there was no other option from the perspective of human centered politics that's why you know there's certain things that Obama did like with the Merrick garland thing for instance that like what we're annoying but it was what he was right so he was keeping the almost the trial very pure so we're gonna figure out what this type of liberalism can get us and so it is more frustrating when a Left Party who like might as well go with what got you there right absolutely and and and then everyone else can learn from it them and I and there's also and and just this credibly I mean there's a disaster scenario then there's also a actually the central European policymakers don't want to break up the European Union and lose especially in the narrative of Europe what is the founding and the seed of Europe there's a cultural cachet to Greece I mean they could have leaned into it a lot more and I think the point is is exactly that that they literally needed to and I just you know just to add on the I think the reason we're time of this is a lesson and not like a condemnation right is to recognize something that we've been finding more and more is that we if we want to have these radical parties and they're elected to fight they have to fight and the really frustrating thing that's happened in syriza is when you have this defiant moment and you literally have people on the street in this massive opportunity once you turn your back on them now four years later you implemented austerity even harsher than the people you took out in the first place now the radical left is associated with austerity you know bad governance all that kind of stuff and that's the real frustration because the social movement that took you know decades to develop and also let's not forget this austerity has destroyed a social safety net in Greece that was won from hard-working like socialists organizing and in five six years who is completely dismantled right recognize all that work that has gone into that moment to see it disappear it's something that we need to be very careful about especially in the United States where we've developed such a you know an interesting and resurgent left but you know that could go away very quickly with a few big disappointments or a failure to act when we have the opportunity to absolutely I just want to say we have a few more things that gets you really briefly and then we've got to crystal ball but tomorrow on the show that Matt super produces and I co-host the majority report we are doing streaming coverage of the Moller hearings that will probably be one of the only times we'll hear Moeller on this show look I'm Third Way about this stuff in the sense that well we've talked to it we talked I'm not even going to read review all the rolled Russia arguments all I can say is I am not stoked to be doing that at 8 o'clock in the morning so if at times I digress into a impression of Sam covering the Moller hearings in a completely non sequitur way you guys will all know where that's coming from all right let's get to the shout out shout out shout out each other of ideas returned to locally moving into the shoulder like bringing a shout-out Machado geopolitical politics yeah she start kicking in shout out somebody asked me if I could continue to think of ways to call Dave Rubin stupid and the answer is both yes and no yes and the side I'm always room for innovation but I think there's also some standby words that continuously work I mean you also have duolingo now that's right let me call him a fucking moron imports welcomed like yeah tears yeah how do you took Portuguese on the internet what can you say free Lula and Dave Rubin is a fucking idiot all right guys there is a serious uprising in Puerto Rico and just like in some I mean obviously look there's always a bigger I don't like to cover things in terms of you know there's a scandal and then there's protests there's always a bigger context obviously but it's interesting to me that just as the explosive reporting out of the lava jato corruption in Brazil has to do with leaked Instagram art excuse me leaked leaked text messages this scandal does as well and Puerto Rico's governor was basically revealed to along with his inner circle to be engaging in everything from it looks like significant corruption schemes to just also engaging in like boorish homophobic bullshit this is a report that just dropped and again there's been huge demonstrations across Puerto Rico's civil disobedience riot gear responses from cops very brutal response the governor has refused to resign although he claims he won't seek reelection I'd be very wary of that promise and now here is a report that in fact there are warrants for the governor and eleven associates phones let's check out this report I just confirmed with the Department of Justice here in Puerto Rico that they have executed search warrants on the Governor of Puerto Rico and every other individual who is a part of the Ricky chats the chats that were leaked so apparently the governor and the eleven others involved in the chat were ordered to surrender their cellphone to the Department of Justice I don't know who turned in their cell phone I don't know who didn't turn in their cell phone but not everybody did so search warrants have been executed in order to collect the poems I have repeatedly asked the governor's office over the last several days whether or not the governor surrendered his cellphone no response not once I'm about to ask them again but anyway I just won't let you know that we have confirmed search warrants have been served on every individual including the governor of Puerto Rico to get the cellphone as part of the investigation into those checks and so you know the bigger picture obviously with Puerto Rico is that Puerto Rico is a colony Puerto Rico is overseen by a predatory hedge fund board which was created at the promesa legislation that flowed out of the Obama administration's arguing and being confirmed in the court system essentially the continuity of Puerto Rico's status as what is in effect and in reality a colony I should what I do want to note that both Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren voted against the oversight board legislation which is purely there to implement austerity and on behalf of vulture capitalists in primarily New York and Boston Tulsi Gabbard actually voted in favor of that legislation I think that's quite important to note because she's been making great noises in fact she went to Puerto Rico which all candidates should but disturbingly she was on the wrong side of that vote for a little bit more context and actually just to kind of synthesize things a little bit here let's play a brief clip of Yanis varoufakis talking with Amy Goodman about the Puerto Rican situation as well you just need to turn the volume up and and apply to the case of Puerto Rico the whole point of the New Deal of FDR's New Deal was to stop this process of after a binge of the financial sector that goes wrong and you have the collapsing pyramids of debt that it creates to shift money and oppression yes to shift cynically the burden and to liquid liquidate the little people the to shift the burden of the finances onto the weakest of shoulders that that was the whole point of the ideal and all the institutions of the New Deal created like the FDIC like Social Security and so on Puerto Rico is part of the same one at the Reunion its people are supposed to be US citizens and yet they are not net they were never part of this New Deal and you have the whole and they cannot vote for president anything it is it the whole force of evil that was imposed upon the little people in 1929 1930 under the Hoover administration being imposed upon a small island nation that has also been devastated by this terrible hurricane which is not completely unconnected and he goes on of course to talk about the climate dimension in this I just want to quote briefly from Nelson Deniz if for whose excellent he wrote a really good piece called after a century of citizenship Puerto Ricans have little to show for it in 2017 in the nation in Puerto Rico v Sanchez Vallejo this is in 2016 the US Supreme Court agreed with the Obama administration's argument that Puerto Rico is a territorial possession of the United States with no political judicial serenity whatsoever that same day the House of Representatives passed the Puerto Rico oversight management and economic stability act promesa to create a financial Control Board empowered to manage the entire Puerto Rican economy the financial control board is now the de facto government banker judge and jury and executioner of the Puerto Rican of Puerto Rico and of course he goes on to talk about the vicious implementation of austerity Puerto Rico has some of the I think the highest poverty rates inside the United States it has a per capita income that is roughly half of that of Mississippi which is the poorest state in the United States and this governor ricardo Rosello and this team these politicians are the local corrupt point people for a colonial system that is designed to benefit vulture hedge fund capital it's a I mean look there's a colonial relationship with the United States and all of Caribbean and Latin America look at our bases there look at our policies on migration and the drug war and the coos that we support it's all part of the same pattern but in Puerto Rico there isn't even the veneer of any type of actually formalized post-colonial status its raw colonialism so shout out all sin all solidarity and Puerto Rican citizens need to be able to choose whether or not to become the 51st state or an independent nation that has paid a massive amount of restitution to I'll just be this really brief today become a patron slash TMDs double the content and now for those subscribing on iTunes you get little snippets of the illicit histories so you can get a flavor last week we talked about Sudanese Marxism with Achmed Cabello who will be a guest on the main show soon grab your tickets to the Chicago live show Chuck Mertz is gonna be there this is hell they're starting to pick up at a fast pace again at Brooklyn Nellie or any lesson do not wait to the last minute grab your tickets today hit subscribe to everything you can donate to us on the super chat while we do this this helps us grow hit the bell button so you get notifications for live streams I do live streams sometimes besides the main show most importantly get all the content as a patron we're gonna slash TMDs we're gonna take a brief break we'll be right back with crystal delve crystal ball [Laughter] what to accomplish something in a video game you have to keep trying to succeed yes you go to game facts or can you get the cheat codes and all that that you do but it really is about you figuring out how to do all this stuff and that's me sort of shows why the media and the stuff you the leftist media hates games now or hates gamers they don't like people who solve problems am i somebody is this a bridge too far am i onto something no I haven't really thought I have to think that I've ever really thought about it I think there's something there a mood you want to get shit done whatever world you're in whether you're playing a sports game or an adventure game or an RPG or whatever you're trying what you're building something you're accomplishing something you may have to have teammates and I'll do it you don't want people to help you do everything in chief for you that's not what the left one sure it'll they after not like games I think there's something really but before going any further I want to address a matter of vital national importance welcome back to the Michael Brooks show joining us now it's a debut and I'm very excited to be announcing a crystal ball she's the co-host of a rising on the hill TV crystal thanks so much for being here thank you for having me I'm nervous so we have so much to talk about and I just wanna we're gonna start with this clip cuz I can't this clip just disgusts me so much like it actually pissed me off and I have to tell you like I have a pretty not much like actually pisses me off there's sort of like the yeah fuck this person you know whatever this one I thought was grotesque what what is on yeah yeah you know a video I'm talking about right oh yeah what is her name do you guys know her name Mimi rokka rokka Mimi Roca um and I should say a bunch of co-panelists who are nodding like she should have been responded to like somebody huffing glue outside of Penn Station but let's let's check this out this is Mimi Roca last week on MSNBC talking about her feelings about Bernie Sanders and crystal I'm gonna throw to you because I think this has a lot of lessons about how Sanders is treated generally I think you know having Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren next to each other will really highlight because for me as you know again I'm not the political analyst here but just as a woman probably considered uh somewhat moderate Democrat I Bernie Sanders makes my skin crawl and I can't even identify for you what exactly it is but I see him as sort of a not pro-woman candidate and so having the two of them they're like I don't understand young women who support him and I'm hoping that having him next to her will help highlight that because those are the people that I if I were her I would want to say what why are you supporting him and not me if you're gonna choose between the two of us crystal what's going on there well in fairness to me I mean they're just kidding there's no defense here I mean literally has everything you have the person who right away preferences to sapphic they're not a political analyst they really have no idea what they're talking about right with the insinuation backed up by absolutely nothing that Bernie Sanders is not a pro woman candidate when of course all of his positions not to mention 40 years of public service would tell you otherwise there's that there's zero statistical data used to back it up and then there's also the just gross condescension of claiming to speak for all women but then also condescending towards the women who do in fact support Bernie Sanders and that all of this passes for analysis on you know a very important and influential Network yeah it kind of says it all doesn't it it says it all and it also says that nobody else said like hey do you want to rephrase that because you just embarrassed all of us and yourself instead we have like right xur Lena Maxwell pumping her head like oh yeah yeah that that makes a little sense even you know how about you back that up like you say he's not a woman what do you mean who would be a logical question follow-up as you know someone who who does this regularly but even I mean in her that she would be asked to opine on this is in itself problematic but again as long as you are kind of saying what they want to hear then they're happy to have you say it and not give any pushback do you think though I mean partially what disgusted me so much about this comment you know look obviously I'm supporter I you know and and the larger media reality is that you know you couldn't get away with saying this about I mean forget Warren you could not say this I think about any other candidate on MSNBC without I mean let alone push back I would say a conniption right like this the kind of casual contempt but I want to connect it to when she talks about young women specifically right because it's not just this weird I mean a lot of a lot of mainstream pundits and I think we can get into like the various class reasons and so on but they have weird psychological fixation about hating Bernie Sanders right like I don't I don't support on you know Harris as an example should we just have different politics but I don't like have a life built around having a weird fixation on hating her the way these people do with Bernie Sanders but when you talk about young woman specifically and this is just like a statistical overlap you're disregarding the fact that yes a lot of young voters in general support Bernie Sanders because they're disproportionately affected by things like student debt and income inequality so the contemptuous is there accidentally basically extends to the entirety of the American working class almost like the hatred for him is a stand-in for a bigger hatred well and I think I think you're exactly right I do think there's something and I can't quite put my finger on it there's something about Bernie Sanders that is like a trigger right because he doesn't play by their rules he does not really respect them or you know adhere to the traditions they want to see or like play the role that they want him to play there's a bit of a mutual antipathy there I think it's fair to say but you also have this phenomenon which I certainly saw an experience when I was at MSNBC where the world that they live in especially you know the folks that are up in New York is a very rarefied world so for example and and also like YouTube where you get instant data on what is doing well what your audience is interested in you get comments you get feedback like you can see right away what people want to hear about and what they don't for better or worse it's actually very squishy the data in the cable news world so that allows for people to make all sorts of assumptions about what the audience does or doesn't want to hear so for example when I was at MSNBC during you know the run up to the 2016 election I was told that the audience didn't care about and voters didn't care about TPP right it wasn't interesting people don't care about it we're not going to cover it so obviously TPP became one of the central issues it was one of the most important things that people cared about the most in the 2016 election but because it wasn't a conversation that was being had on the Upper East or Upper West Side in Manhattan there was an assumption made that that wasn't a topic that was interesting to people and I think it's the same I think there's a same that similar dynamic going on here with Bernie Sanders because if you look at who supports Bernie Sanders right who is the bird makes up the Bernie Sanders coalition it's disproportionately working-class people it's disproportionately people who do not have college degrees who are making less than $50,000 a year and those are just not the sorts of folks that Mimi Roca who I'm sure it's not a bad person and I'm sure like you know was trying to express the best that she can which she's not sure going on in politics I'm sorry you intro a lot I'll just keep coming in contact with so it's outside of her purview of understanding you know I don't want to turn like class like I you know I'm try to on this show talk about like you know cool class is like a process in the economy more so than an identity right and I actually get super skeptical of the way people talk about climate classes and identity and mainstream media because all of a sudden it like turns into having nothing to do with where you're at financially or professionally it's all like oh well you know you be a multimillionaire but if you like drink you know blood wiser watch NASCAR or whatever then you have working-class sensibilities which is another like delusional way that this stuff is covered in media but I will say it just seems that you know there's some recognition and even though these places still do not achieve it right but there is a generic recognition and the MSNBC universe that like you know if you're gonna have a segment that deals with women or african-americans or so on you probably should have some people that actually are from those groups on the flip and you're talking about Bernie Sanders when you're talking about cutting Social Security or you're saying nobody cares about TVP it's this inbuilt like well everybody working here as parents could you know pay for them to have an apartment where they did it while they did an unpaid internship there it's completely screened out hundred percent correct and it's a reflection of the society at large right we have as a culture not place value on class diversity have not placed value on having people of you know from the working class or middle class backgrounds in positions of leadership right or as people who have a prominent voice or who have power I mean this is this is a larger cultural issue but it certainly plays out on MSNBC and CNN and other places where then you end up with these bizarre segments where you know it's like the reporters are going on safari in their own country trying to figure out what the you know what the peasants are really talking about rather than actually incorporating those voices as voices of authority into the coverage that you're putting out to the country so what's the Bernie play like that like this morning I was on I I should say like I'm friends with brie joy gray is his press secretary she used to be on the show all the time I guess now I say too many inflammatory things for her regularly beyond crystal but no you know the Gulag segment was maybe a little controversial but but I was on the podcast this morning on here the Bern talking about Bernie and Lula Brazil foreign policy he's built this whole alternative media infrastructure what do you think if you were to take a strategic approach to how Bernie deals with the media as sort of like often another impediment what's the best path there do you think my thinking and I actually have been thinking a little bit about this is they've taken they've done a great job cultivating alternative media approach and I think they that's awesome they need to do that that's predominantly where a lot of their coalition can be found anyway so I think that has been really smart but I would be a little bit less careful about doing the mainstream media outlets and you know let's let Bernie get in there and be feisty and call people out when they're being unfair you know make that more of a point of conversation that's happening nationally and not just an alternative media of you know hey how are we covering this election and are you getting the facts right on Medicare for all and how are we looking at this issue and he's a he's a very obviously incredibly effective communicator and the Mimi Rochas of the world aside people find him really compelling and in his own special way very charming right so I would open the floodgates a bit more and take some more risk and put him out there I mean you look at like I thought and this was very controversial but I thought that Bernie's town hall on Fox News was one of the better moments of his campaign because he's the guys just fearless you know he's not afraid to call bullshit on the bullshit he's not afraid to you know to do his thing in a hot in hostile territory I think we need to see more of that from them he's got to be out there a little bit he's been so far yeah I completely agree with you and I'm a little confused looking at that campaign because I think they are doing a lot right but to me two really successful moments which I could see being controversial you know and maybe the more risky thing to do was when they sent that letter to the Center for American Progress several months ago like yo we're not manages you know you're not gonna just attack the guy with bullshit all the time we're gonna come back at you if this is gonna just be like a cheap tabloid Oppo shop on us and yes he did an incredible job at the Fox townhall and why I'm wondering I I think in general if you got that kind of feedback loop I do wonder why there isn't more of that from the campaign yeah and I don't want the answer to that I mean I think you know he has rightfully so a healthy skepticism of the press and you know doesn't necessarily enjoy those appearances when he has to go on and tolerate what are sometimes stupid uninformed questions that he's constantly having to reframe the premise of or the kind of horse race stuff that you know he he doesn't have use for that and he wants to talk about policy ideas the movement how we're gonna actually make change for people and so I get why he I mean I'm not excited about Adam for your cable news anymore so I certainly understand why Bernie Sanders thinks that you know this is there are better uses of his time but I I think that you have to you have to find all the people where they're at and there isn't something fair and it is and unfortunately it's a disproportionately elite audience and unfortunately elite audience is still very much control a lot of the information flow in the country so um you know it's to the extent that that I was able to offer any advice there I'd advocate for more aggressive higher risk mainstream media approach than what's been taken so far do you think as you I want to like widen the lens with you for broader thoughts about a long-term strategy for I guess for you know just say more broadly like a progressive politics in America do you think that on the on the flip side I mean the squad which I guess we're calling them now I kind of resist that to be honest but it's good the eyelet the the four cool members of Congress they have been pretty great and pretty we found for the what for right exactly what do you make of their willingness to acknowledge the reality that there is actually a war inside the Democratic Party I think the way that those women have operated has been brilliant and I think they are some of the only ones in the Democratic Party who actually understand the moment that we are living through from a cultural political and certainly media perspective and part of that currency is that you know they don't hide it when they're unhappy they aren't owe anything to the Democratic establishment so they're not afraid to take them on right they have their own power bases and I just look at did you see this poll that just came out I think Maris pulled Maris NPR Pat CBS I can't remember but they did they pulled like 20 different issues for their popularity and green New Deal a concept that a year ago no one could have told you what it was it's not one of the most popular policy ideas in the country and a lot of that credit of course the credit belongs to the movement activists who have been pushing this idea and crafting it and getting it ready for primetime but in terms of pushing it into public consciousness and awareness aoc has been incredible and so when I see all this hand-wringing about oh my god like she's taking the Democratic Party off the cliff and it's a disaster and etc etc like what are they talking about finally we have someone who actually knows how to do combat it was actually exciting people and who by the way has put forward what we've been we've been wringing our hands about other democratic party is no vision for the future and we need an overarching framework that people can understand and your AOC has presented one to the American public and they're like yeah we're done with that we're into it and now all the presidential candidates are embracing at least parts of it and rushing to get their client plans out and be right on the issue how can you argue with the effectiveness of of their strategy at this point do you think what makes that sort of utter like cowardice with these people because you know one part I think of understanding the conflict in the Democratic Party is absolutely like who is aligned with capital and who isn't aligned with capital and you know what people's ideological commitments are to some extent and the fact that you know starting we could tell a longer story right that like you know the the sort of broader claps of labor unions the rise of totally unregulated capital how that affects center-left parties right like there's this really important historical contextual understanding which I love you to comment on too but there's also like you know I can think of politicians who I really don't like I have totally different politics from a Bill Clinton in some ways in some ways or a Tony Blair in some ways right who weren't just like constitutionally and temperamental II was bags and so like when I look at the Democratic leadership it's like look I understand of course we're gonna be in the opposite side of Chuck Schumer he's a wall street hands maiden but that doesn't like Harry Reid and I have very different politics but I think Harry Reid understood like fuck Republicans and let's get at what is that this leadership class yeah I think Democrats written large have this sort of lingering PTSD and you can see that it's a bit of a generational issue right but much of the the leadership and you know the over fifty certainly members of the Democratic Party you'll have this belief that no amount of data could shake them from that the country is really center-right and this is the you know Ryan grim really makes this case much more profoundly and powerfully than I could but basically that the country center-right and so we have to like not really tell the voters how we really want we've always got a hedge we've always got to come back further to the court unquote center than we want to we've got to work with the Republicans if we're gonna hold power and it's all just in the service of you know this is what we've got to do to be able to win elections and that was Hillary Clinton right she's such a pragmatic progressive that's the way they see it like in my heart I'm right there with you but I'm the one who gets the way that we have to win of course that ignores the fact that like let's put hillary clinton aside in the eight years before that while we had a democratic president we lost close to a thousand state legislative seats governor's mansion we lost the house we lost the Senate of course and we lost the presidency so while we were so fixated on the compromises we had to make to win elections we just kept losing election but I think that PTSD of being in the wilderness and though then the way that Bill Clinton I'm I'm gonna say the way that he ran because the way he actually ran his first campaign was was rather populist but the way that he governed like that has been so embedded in the mindset of this set of Democrats that they just there's no there's no getting out of it I think no factor data could possibly shake them from the sort of foundational view and then it's also you also get into the psychology of like where does your power base come from and what's the system that you were able to thrive in right what got you to your leadership position and if it's a legacy system then of course you're going to be invested in maintaining that legacy system what do you think are like that if you are designing like the blueprint for not only winning you know doing something really important III obviously think getting Sanders elected is incredibly important but I think another thing that the Wright does is that like later on in the show we're gonna talking with a brilliant movement organizer on tactics and the last time he was on we talked about strategy right and sometimes when you look at the political parties the right is amazing at strategy and tactics and the Democrats and liberals are sometimes good at tactics so like maybe a plan like as as someone who really understands the stuff and I think has like this deep understanding of a lot of different dynamics both inside and outside right what do you think the kind of blueprint is if you were gonna have a plan or a play for us moving forward to acquire and maybe actually start to sustain power well some of you are what you're talking about earlier with with Greece in particular and and you you talked a little bit about kind of the theory of political change right that you have to embrace in order to really be successful as a leftist movement and I think you have to put that at the center even more than the particular policies what matters to me is that theory of political change so if you are going to operate within the current system given the current you know current structure of who has influence and how much the money matters and all the way things that work in Washington and across the country really and having to go to the Republicans with your hat in hand when they have no interest in giving you a whenever like if you're going to work and within that system you're going to fail period end of story and people know that right so that reality ties into the electoral reality that if you're offering people like oh I'm going to work with the Republicans they're like no you're not like you already try but that's just not going to work right but you have to first and foremost offer people a vision for the future that they actually think like actually believe is going to make a difference in their lives now that's a fucking hard thing to do right and that's why I don't know that I'm going to give you the full blueprint today but I'll tell you a little bit of why I think that leftist populist movements around the globe have had more trouble than the right-wing quote/unquote populace isn't it's because if you pin a lot of your ideology around basically some sort of racial supremacy that's very easy to deliver on without passing a single bill right you get a sort of psychological welfare just from the president telling you've kind of something to go back where they came from right that's like that's a psychological benefit to you know people who are looking to be put back in the place where they think that they where they think that they deserve and belong on the left you have you have to actually deliver the good right and so if you aren't talking about a theory of political change that is big enough for people to believe that you're really going to make a difference in their lives that they're going to be able to see they're just going to think you're full of it like every other politician um and so you know so that's again I don't think that's a blueprint but I think that's where you have to start from and if you aren't if you aren't fundamentally changing some of the dynamics and the incentives that operate in our system and making structural change then I don't think you get past the starting dates with with a lot of people yeah I think that that's really true and I that's another reason I just want to say you know I one of the reasons I'm such as strong advocate for Loula and I've covered him so much I think actually you just frames in addition to the fact that he absolutely is in my opinion a political prisoner and an incredibly successful president I actually think he did that one I mean look delivered tens of millions a lot of poverty but to I think that he actually did communicate this incredibly effective like know this way of doing things is better right like this is like make Brazil happy again right like this a society where prosperity is growing where you're enjoying your life and more and more people are being taken care of and you don't have to divide yourself into some like pathetic little sort of like you know racial hierarchy and in fact we're gonna challenge that but in this very like broad-based visceral way I mean again the dude would have beat balsan ro I actually I think that they're I think that that is something to the synthesis and I think you're also right about the inbuilt advantage of you know Trump and but all these guys are total one-percent people but they can they can dispense with the racism and the xenophobia and that charges up their base and that costs nothing you're totally right it's it's sheer joy I mean you look at that rally crowd chanting send her back like that's all that's what they came there they're so happy in that moment to be able to assert their dominance and look I'm not one that you know believes everyone is racist or everyone that supported Trump is race I mean I grew up in rural America I live in rural America I lived in Kentucky during the twenty sixteen lesson like I actually love these people but you can't deny that white supremacy at its core is is essentially an economic message right okay well these feelin screwed you over we're gonna give it back to you right and and and to our great shame the Democrats were not able to offer anything that was superior to that incredibly shitty not to mention a moral economic message absolutely yeah what mean what was the response was like and now Beyonce yeah no economic man but we have Pharrell well and it was and it was like Oh with our economic plan let me do a battery of holes and I'll get back to you on that you know because it's certainly not going to be what I said two years ago or four years ago got to figure this out on the fly I mean and that's that's the other thing we were again digging into this poll that had all the issue questions and three New Deal pulled very well and there's some sort of contradictory information on health care and medicare for all and some of the immigration positions that you know on decriminalizing undocumented immigration like those things hold very poorly and so we were talking about that on the show and and what I sort of look we've tried the poll-tested route people are much less interested in draw a line with you on every issue then like do I believe and you enjoy I think that you're full of shit so one of the things that Trump did that worked very effectively is he said a bunch of things that no one would ever tell you to say right they were terrible things to say everyone say don't say these things and he said them anyway and that made people believe wrongly obviously but believe that he was really saying what you thought um so I think people overestimate how much your specific positioning on ideological spectrum matters and dramatically underestimate how much they believe that you're really going to deliver for them on the core things that they've sort of signed up for which is why you see like Biden Bernie right meeting in the polls and have very similar demographics that they appeal to if you ask five voters who their second choices they say Bernie and vice versa even though there are obviously at opposite ends of the ideological spectrum but there's there's more going on there than just where the political positioning balls I completely agree with you and I and actually just a loopback before we go that's another reason why your point of Berni going into the Lions Den is so important when he does things like tell cap not to fuck with him which again it's such a narrow story that most people would have no idea what you're talking about or care nor should they but the general sentiment of you know what that is a tangible example now of what he will do in 20 months when he's in the president and everything's coming at him and he's saying no I'm getting everybody health care and no I'm cancelling debt and so on and so on it's it's it's the showing and I think that that actually overlaps exactly with your super shrewd advice about going on mainstream outlets well and one one last thought on that is you know Bernie Sanders is a different kind of figure right and so I think people also some people also have a hard time wrapping their head around imagining him as president so I think you know I think some more like international travel right some some settings where you can see him playing that role on the world stage I think that also could be a benefit to the campaign totally that's such a good call crystal ball is the co-host of risings on the hill TV it's great it's the morning show you're gonna watch when you see it you will I don't know if you're like a tech person you'll block Morning Joe from ever showing up on your feed it's always my pleasure I any time you want I have a great time coming on the show and I hope that you will come back to the TMDs again soon thanks so much all right folks what we're gonna do now is we're gonna do the gem and then we're gonna take a brief break and then joshua khan in studio it's gonna join us very excited about this sorry for banging the table yes this is actually pretty interesting a report that just came out in Los Angeles about a new strategy that Silicon Valley companies and disk companies in general are using to try to subvert any kind of basic workers protections workers rights in general sure get around if you're not familiar with it is a company that allows users to rent out their cars and they have employees though who were basically moving the cars around and of course they were not considering these employees you know as employees they were considering them to be independent contractors despite the fact they wore uniforms they didn't make their own schedule they had to go to training and they were assigned ships so anyways this is going on for a few years and there starts to become a movement that there's basically been become a class-action suit against a company awesome well the company begins sending out checks to these workers and you got to remember that many of these people are low wage workers so they're sending out you know $300 $400 501 thousand to two thousand dollars to people and saying you know just sign this little sheet of paper and of course the sheet of paper was make you know encouraging these workers to sign away all of their legal rights you know they were hoping to squash this class-action lawsuit the company then was informed by their counsel that they had that the sheet of paper that they had all these people signed was too broad and actually would not be able to hold up in court because it was so egregious and offensive to any kind of decency or understanding of of law so then the company contacted all these people offered them around a hundred dollars to sign another wave her and threatened them though that if they did not sign this they would sue them for the money that they took in the first place so now we need to recognize what it's like for those workers you know if you are you know already working at kind of low wage gig job you get a couple hundred dollars and for most people who are working paycheck to paycheck that gives you a little bit of breathing room so it's something that is very attractive to people this is a tactic that's used by a company by get around because it's significantly cheaper than paying out the the the overall cost of a successful lawsuit that would really challenge the abuse of practices of get around so just to give us the context of this get around paid out a total of one hundred forty five thousand dollars while the legal settlement was going to is estimated to be somewhere around if it went through one point six million dollars so the company understands that their workers are pressed for cash and that many workers were forgo their legal rights and this is something that we're seeing more and more across the across the country as much more work become centralized into a few corporations especially all these kind of gig works so you're talking about delivery drivers uber things like that one company can basically push around an entire sector of workers who are atomized because they're not necessarily working with one another and oftentimes these are temporary workers just talking about temporary workers in general interns according to a new Wall Street Journal report are increasingly being forced to sign non-compete clauses which obviously the entire intern system in the u.s. is you know a problem especially unpaid internships but this you know just later feudalism would be so funny it's amazing because it slaps in the face the entire neoliberal logic of interns in the first place I think it's an experience so that you can go and take it somewhere else and obviously people have seen you know just there's a really interesting report in the New York Times a story about a were a reporter who worked as a door – delivery person that came over the weekend I highly suggest you read it and obviously everyone's been talking about again what's going on at door – where they're taking the tips to subsidize the wages that they're paying for the workers so you know if they were getting paid you know twelve dollars for delivery you pay them five dollars doordash is just basically taking themself off the hook for the seven dollars that they would have to pay these workers naturally and this is certain is a major problem capitalism's bad folks you know I mean we've tried it it's not working it's not work it's not a good system but we also need to recognize what this means it's like so these are all these kind of legal rules that these companies are getting around or all things that were hard-fought won victories of the labor movement across the country but what happens when you know working people aren't organized together aren't basically in communication with each other and are in such precarious work that they're sort of transitory they become abused but also the way that a lot of these corporations are trying to use you know legal finagling to get out of any kind of legal protection for the workers is really bad and it's becoming all too common so private-sector non-union employees 56.2% of them are subject to mandatory employment arbitration procedures right this is from the Economic Policy Institute so this is again you know you're foregoing your rights to a trial so that they can find an arbiter to figure out you know your situation thirty point one percent of those workers also include classified situation to I should be here's a little he's a few scraps situation being side I can obtain and you know this is a significant part of the economy twenty four point seven million American workers no longer have the right and of course you know there are ways to get out of this but just you know they'd have to go through a long legal process to go forward with a class-action lawsuit twenty-four point seven million American workers you know signed away their right to bring a class-action claim if their employment rights have been violated so this is really common in low-wage workplaces it is much more common in industries that are composed of women workers people of color and you know and again low-wage workers so this is our legal system being skewed to dominate you know into the benefit of the wealthiest people and the most powerful organizations in the United States you know and from legal from legal weakness to precarity corporations are using the poor situation of their workers that they create by paying them such low wages to maintain that domination over people just the other week uber and lyft were revealed to be paying their drivers to show up at protests that were pushing for more regulations on the industry and again we're talking a hundred two hundred dollars but when people will need cash they're going to accept fighting poverty must mean that we're fighting the power of bosses and that means that we need to really be talking and creating movements that unite people that's why movements for example like the fight for 15 is so much bigger than just raising the minimum wage that's creating class power and solidarity and those kind of unions and organizations that people need to be able to work in unison against a system that's trying to make them work as individual actors and as long as they're working as individual actors they're going to be completely abused by the system excellent alright folks here's what we're gonna do I just want to say it was a shortened pitch because the show's tight but I want to get past I want to get to 2,500 this month by the end of this month we're at two thousand four hundred and seventy eight I just checked get us past five hundred this month two thousand five hundred is our next clear goal and we want to be well over three thousand by the end of the year on YouTube we'd certainly want to get to a hundred thousand subscribers by the end of the year and I'm wondering I mean yeah if you're not subscribed right now do that right right now do that right now and also kick us a contribution on super chat because it helps keep everything going including the new folks that we have helping us with the YouTube channel and stuff like that next week I will be wearing swag we'll all be wearing swag that has come in the mail and that means that you can order dope TMDs gear extremely soon and the only other thing I just want to say is and I'm sorry is that proposing but tomorrow at nine o'clock in the morning here's me here's Matt here's Sam what Natalie just did was he just looked at Bella and and so that was very interesting because Mullis said I'm a prosecutor and Nadler said what about as not a prosecutor Adamski it's gonna be important it's gonna be good we just resent the early rising but it's actually a way of plugging it get up early in watch the live stream with us Matt and I pass look they hit it if they score a blow on him that's great all about points on the board I'll just say that the jokes people sometimes make about water boats and such might be true tomorrow and I will just say that that joke will be doubly true tomorrow all right folks we're gonna take a brief break oh that Joshua Khan is gonna join us very excited we'll be right back and what is a lap oh it's working and it's very exciting it needs to be simple keep it simple infrastructure no bumps in the road it is very very disturbing when I hear the millionaire or billionaire word and I told him just stop it knock it off Mimmi raka she's single and that guy is single should get together I could see a very natural very natural unconscious coupling there welcome back to the Michael Brooks show very very excited we all set extremely excited to have joining us for the second time in studio my good friend comrade he's the executive director of the wildfire project he has over 20 years of experience and direct action he's gonna share with us tactics that are relevant as I said in the intro whether you're in a movement of tens of thousands or five other people Joshua Kahn thank you for being back brother yeah thanks for having me I've been looking forward to it how's the mic on my man check put a little bit lowering make sure you talk into it alright how's this oh there we go beautiful so last time you were on we played a couple of in-depth games of how we were talking about how First Nations spirituality could affect how we play off merry kill yeah yeah I'm sorry that was in the I'm just kidding I'm being annoying we talked about movement strategy mm-hmm can you just just reorient this a little bit you have the Simpsons example people really love the Simpsons example today we're gonna talk about tactics but can you reorient us towards first of all what is the difference yeah so well last time we talked about what I call social movement strategy right so that's how do you shift the balance of forces in a society but the next layer down of strategy is campaign strategy and so usually when most people hear the word campaign they think like an electoral campaign it can be that but mostly what I'm talking about is you have an organized group of people that has a goal and sets a target with the demands and tries to win a demand by pressuring that target and so then within that your tactics are the stepping stones that get you there and we actually have a diagram that can help with it yeah let's get a diagram up if I have that yeah because is this up guys awesome great people can confuse tactics and strategy often yeah particularly leftists who have a cultural affinity for a certain tactics they're like we love blockading cuz it's dope and but aren't driven by a longer a longer path so just to situate what we're doing now is my hopes is that in this period we're in right now and in this coming period that's gonna lead need a lot more mobilization all right you keep flowing cool is it still all right yeah that knows I believe we're gonna need a lot more mobilization to win the gains that that were fighting for and we have a lot more tools in our toolbox than rallies and marches and particularly as the terrain becomes more fluid and science society gets more chaotic fascism can thrive in those conditions right and we need to learn from social movements of the way that they've been adaptable and creative and in thriving in those conditions too so the main kind of capsule of of building a critical pathway of escalating tactics is is a campaign so you start on the left here is point a so for those of you who are just listening on the podcast there's just kind of a dot on the left hand side and on the right hand side is your destination that's your campaign goal so that's like we're trying to stop a pipeline or we're trying to get you know a local campaign like we're trying to get more you know cheaper bus fare for youths we're trying to or we're trying to win a green new deal it can be as big or small and then you build a pathway with short mid and long term goals and the the hash marks on the way those are your tactics so those are all of the actions those are all of the steps that you take building towards your goal and the key thing about non-violent direct action tactics and protest tactics in general is we're brought up in this country to think that change mostly happens through persuasion like draw of winning in the marketplace of ideas and so this is sort of outside of it cuz there's a chart here the word politics isn't on it that was fascinating he was so pain it like hurt me in my body to watch that interview with Marianne and see this is the C and some ways we're so similar and I think one of our core beautiful differences is that that made my body happen until I got this tax I did it I did it a certain point get broken by the just relentless stupidity but anyways back to it cuz I could have seen her reaction but the key thing all the ways she increased – by the end of that her like she was because like okay Dave – like are you fucking kidding me mm-hmm well here and here's how that actually ties into this so if you didn't hear that interview Marianne will William Williamson was talking about second choice candidate social movements street heat popular mobilization and how that wins gains and Dave Reubens response was like oh that's not even politics and so my point here is the opposite which is that politics is fundamentally about how you leverage powers people and gain more democratic control over the different aspects of your life and then that trickles upward into the into the electoral arena so if you want to go to the next slide let's let's take a moment well let me just talk for another second about campaigns when I say a campaign goal there's lots of different kinds of goals that campaigns have so there's your external sort of final goal but all along the way your tactical goals like the goal of a particular direct action that can be internal that can be we want to be building our group and get our folks hype and connected and part of the value of non-violent direct action is when people take an emotional and spiritual risk of breaking the rules and taking care of each other despite the consequences by standing on the moral high ground it binds your group together so there can be internal goals for sure there can be organizing goals if we're doing this tactic to be compelling to new people so they'll join our group there can be pressure goals that you're actually leveraging power on your target so that so that spread is like the difference between some tactics are about building the muscle some tactics are about flexing the muscle to make the campaign look attractive and some some are about like actually punching right and so we'll cover that range and before we get into the different kinds of tactics let's just take a moment and expand the toolbox I wonder if the four of us here just brainstorm what are the names of some different tactics like not specific ones but kind kinds no eggs no milk shaking people yeah milk shaking marching uh-huh what else direct action what kinds taking something that you want that's been taken from you uh-huh so like land reclamation yeah or like occupy our homes used to break into homes that were foreclosed and take them back for example yeah what else being a nuisance on social media yeah I was gonna say propaganda that covers propaganda right propaganda writ large it's a term for like chaining yourself to something yeah yeah so there's all kinds of obedience there's yeah and we'll get into the distinction between direct action and civil disobedience in a minute but blockades blocking something from happening you can do that with your bodies you can do that with bicycles but you can also like there's come saying like use what's called hard gear to actually lock down so saying like nobody gets in or out we're using chains we're using barrels we can talk talk more about examples of that to anything else sabotage the spear of South Africa yeah thank you dear just uh tone it down there is these these Arab support especially were in Europe there's a huge tradition to resist them yep well I was but also yeah the spear of South Africa sabotage what about I'm I'm sorry I'm totally blanking on something I feel like there's something in between sabotage and land reclaiming but I'm not thinking of it spotting yeah but does that really sabotage but okay so why yeah I don't think so yeah I'm it was something I thought was more confrontational okay squatting mocking people mm-hmm could be attacked it no it actually really actually really kill could definitely be attacked and this is totally different but the same word but like holding mock elections the tactic in general guerrilla theater street theater the theater street theater is a tactic um you can do tree sits you can do all kinds of banner hangs I'm just trying to get the juice flowing what else good well so like one thing do wearing a Lula t-shirt to see burner boy a Prospect Park it's pretty good replacing brake lights so is there a term for that just like they're like the protester gets like police brutality basically raise awareness they're replacing brake lights on cars for free it's sort of like services a propaganda community building services I sort of mutual aid to sustain community I would say all education in the really broad set of terms like in the Paulo Freire a tradition like telling people like your rights as a tenant and potentially where you could go on the offense against your landlord yeah maybe you could organize with everybody else maybe going rent strike yeah it's a whole category of rent strike food I would say it's only our own needs directly yeah because our a category when they're done effectively obviously strikes I mean if like strikes maybe you're suing a lot of things that we've talked about or related advertisers or harassment campaigns yes yes I'm into that yeah so you get the idea right there's like a lot here and one of the things that I just want to share for people who are interested a lot of the frameworks that we're gonna use are into different organizing manuals that I helped write that are both free online these are really important one it's called beautiful trouble which there was a hundred sixty-eight of us that contributed to it or her direct action practitioners the others specifically focused on climate which is called organizing cools the planet you can go to both of those at the dot-org version of the titles and on there you can also get a list of 198 tactics that comes from gene sharp there's no excuse to be to just have boring marches as I guess my point with this and if you want to go to the next slide now we can break some of those tactics into categories so the the first broad category is what most people are familiar with which is protest so that's like rallies marchers marches letter-writing petitions teachings postcards street theater billboard liberation and banner hangs all of those are kind of pro and what a protest is basically like it's shining the spotlight on an issue it's like a big exclamation point non-cooperation this is more typical civil disobedience where you're withdrawing something from the system that makes it difficult to function so you're withdrawing your participation your money your labor and so that's consumer boycotts labor strikes general strike student walk outs draft resistance burn war tack resistance yeah I was just gonna say burning your draft card yeah yeah exactly yeah or even fasting right and part of the point of non-cooperation is that it's collective so if if you don't shop somewhere that's not a boycott if you get thousands of other people to not shop somewhere that's a boycott right you personally deciding they're not support a company or whatever is fine if you want to make that decision but that type of like personal consumer action I'm just I'll just say it means nothing yeah if you say we're gonna try to get twenty thousand people or whatever way you could do anything you could scale it to say for the two days this Amazon strike happens you're not gonna do any transaction on Amazon you actually hit a critical threshold I can do something yeah but just saying I don't do Amazon doesn't mean anything right right yes which is part of why and just a tactics are not about making you feel good or you know like we're all full of contradictions and so when you're talking about this kind of arena I I've spent years campaigning against oil companies right and I Drive a vehicle that uses gas I go on airplanes I consume oil I'm a part of the society but when there's a campaign against Chevron I don't get gas from Chevron because it helps the campaign because it's organized and has a target and actually contributes to pressure are you getting gas from shale in the abstract isn't any different shells just as bad but the difference is is there a campaign on going on at that moment and so that the context for this stuff is important so the next category is intervention this is what a lot of people think of when I think of non-violent direct action so this is not withdrawing something from the system this is like throwing the wrench in the gears so this is like blockading roads or buildings occupations disrupting meetings bird-dogging which is the bird dog we're dogging it's a weird term but it's where you like follow around a politician and at every public forum they're at you're asking the same question over and over so they can't get away from it like the way that a dog follows a bird I'm not a hunter I don't know I think got it yeah yeah I've been pheasant hunting dogs will sniff around in the brush until they find the actual burden then kick it up into the air so and yeah everything from like Theresa its you're blocking you're getting in the way of stuff basically then the last one was what Griscom raised which was these are the creative solutions this is meeting NEADS directly so building alternative commute you know this is everything from worker coops to you know underground abortion clinics this is or to like the Panthers doing a breakfast program so there's there's a pretty wide range of stuff that is available to us and the way that I've worked for 15 years with an organization called the ruckus society which supports groups doing nonviolent direct action and the way ruckus defines direct action is the strategic use of immediately effective acts to achieve a social or political ends so you can use these tactics in the economic terrain in the social arena and in the political arena as well and if you have a good campaign it threads all three and we'll give examples of doing that well why don't we get into so I have a bunch of slides here with just different examples and some stories to tell to pull us and lesson Pervin great let's do it so people who are watching may have seen this photo before it's a pretty iconic photo this is a lunch counter sit in Jackson Mississippi 1963 Woolworths and the reason why I picked it first is it's a great example of a primary concept that I operate on which we call action logic so this was a moment when the campaign was to integrate lunch counters as part of a larger movement for racial justice and civil rights and so the tactic was this this is traditional civil disobedience where you're breaking the law that is the law itself is the injustice so the law says black people and white people can't sit together at a lunch counter you break that law and out of principle and the image here is black students and white students sitting in and then this angry mob of people who had now you know be the IDW crowd throwing like know their ID you to be to be fair and I hate the phrase to be fair but the idea of you crowd would be like we have to consider the consequences of not pouring milkshakes on these people I'm an integration yeah we don't consider would be to defend a few people in that picture who were doxed by right exactly yes it would be the finding narrow irrelevant side point to have a moral panic about yes exactly yes so yeah all these angry white people are throwing food on them and the reason that it has what we call action logic is you can look at this image and you immediately know what they want you know who they are you know who's against them and you know why and it doesn't require any words they're not holding protest signs the image speaks for itself it's logical the the acts that they're doing itself tells the story because even though direct action is fundamentally about material power and and leveraging pressure it also is fundamentally narrative based it's fundamentally about how do you tell a story of a pathway to liberation and action not every action needs to have high action logic but when you're like blockading a highway you need to do a lot more work to explain to people what you're doing unless you're protesting the existence of that highway or something like that and so that's the first principle action logic so if you wanna go to the next slide this is an example of an action that I coordinated that had high action logic which was this was 10 years ago 2009 this was so direct action can be incredibly material it can also be about building a symbolic flashpoint which was the goal of this action so at the time in the back of this picture I couldn't find a better picture but I thought this one was fun there's smokestacks and those smokestacks are from the coal-fired power plant that powered Congress that literally powered the Congressional building and if you like were to rotate the camera angle you'd see the congressional building directly next to the smokestacks and so there had been a lot of agitation around trying to get this power plants switched away from coal to clean energy and it was actually Nancy Pelosi at the time who for years had been sort of waffling in the wind about it and I don't know about that fuck that basically the Democrats kept passing resolutions to do it in a not not actually implementing them super core bread Democrat right there and so we shut it down we brought a few thousand people and did an occupation we blockaded the whole thing nobody enter out shut it down for a day and so the actual logic was clear this is the coal-fired power plant that powers Congress literally and figuratively the fossil fuel industry is power in Congress right now and so the idea was to build a flashpoint action this was like before Occupy Wall Street this was before there were means that that really got underneath sort of money to influence and there were a number of different campaigns going on around clean energy that we're going to then leverage this message from that and we actually by the end of that day Nancy Pelosi came out and announced that they were going to transition it off of coal and when they did and the reason why I share that is not because direct action usually has that much immediate satisfaction and actually it was kind of a sour satisfaction because they transitioned it to liquefied natural gas which is fracking so she's not actually that much better we like to make sure to be like look yeah we'll do this but at least some fucking waters getting lit on fire that's amazing poison some people yeah that was when the Sierra Club was advocating for fracking the mainstream environmental groups were they were a brand they branded liquefied natural gas like the Obama of Energy like it's not a clean transition but it's also not fossil fuels either it's a totally new thing and this was an intervention on those politics – we had I'll talk in a minute about the difference between your target and your audience right but your target so you're trying to pressure your audiences all the people who are impacted by the action and we're trying to impact the terrain of the environmental movements and it was basically planting the seeds for what became the Keystone XL pipeline campaign of pushing these groups to be much more embracing of non-violent direct action and but the other thing I'll say about Pelosi jumping in fronts a lot of times self-righteous activists get frustrated when politicians jump in front of the parade after it's organized to take credit for stuff and cry about co-optation and co-optation is a real thing there's there's there's things to watch out for but it's a metric of success and the reason that we do nonviolent direct action tactics if we're trying to pressure a politician my friend Daniel Hunter talks about it like politicians are like a balloon and they kind of waffle in the winds and the terrain of advocacy as opposed to direct action or lobbying is like blowing on the balloon trying to get it to move and what direct action but those balloons it's tied to a rock it can only go so far right and that rock is the material interest of those politicians it's either their constituency or their funding base and the goal of can of campaigns is to move the rock and so we're not getting concerned with lobbying a politician to take this or that stance we're moving their constituency so they have to take that stance if they're in power and that's the way that for example sunrise is building movements for the green New Deal and and and trying to force politicians to take a stand by demonstrating public pressure that's that's that's how direct actions like moving the rock as distinct from advocacy so the next one yeah let's go to the next one right actually yeah before you can leave this one up but before I get to this I I will just say something about the keystone campaign because those actions did not have action logic that was we started by doing this what was it we were basically people were locking themselves to the White House gates you know and we did I remember a series of 12 days of mass it was we called it civil disobedience but it wasn't technical because the people were getting arrested but the law that was being broken is just like some ridiculous law about tourism like you can't block the gates so that tourists can take photos if we were protesting that there was a picture by the way of Pablo Escobar and his kid in front of the White House taking that photo no it's like hot it's a amazing photo pretty funny so you were interrupted we would have interrupted potentially Pablo Escobar taking a picture with his kid in front of the White House so you could stop economic development right see I could be reason to get it I could be that we did it maybe they wanted to experience America but because we hate freedom so much Pablo Escobar and his kid can't have a family moment and he's an entrepreneur Wow I'll stop being stupid go ahead oh you'd be so good at that sure yeah but the sooner wind we're in front of the White House it wasn't really politics you were just saying we want to eat organic smoothies all right so you just work a lot harder to make our message clear so we had to have really clear signs and messaging good to have our spokespersons on lock we had to and in that case the arrests they were basically just bait to get media attention in a way and there's you know there's a double-edged sword to that like in a in a lot of conditions you know like in most freedom struggles getting captured is seen as a bad thing not highly emphasized yeah but sometimes you can provoke arrests in order to control the media narrative if that's part of your strategy and sometimes campaigns get a little bit too distracted by the media stuff and wait like towards spectacle and away from the material but if you're doing it with intention that is how what started as a flashpoint action at the White House became a multi-year long campaign to stop an oil pipeline that was grassroots driven from front line indigenous communities all over the country that we're doing real material block so instead of having kind of a fake blockade in front of the White House it was literally blockading oil tankers so they couldn't get through and pushing the pipeline timeline further so that the legal case had more time to run through so these things thread together in terms of yeah material impacts so jump to the one here since we have narratives yeah so this is from the WTO battle in Seattle 1999 and this is the ruckus Society dropping a banner and in the media terrain the reason I wanted to include this is just to give a shout out to activists who are sick of outraged culture and just saying we're against everything and we're against this and no no no right the reason why that's ineffective is that the audience then needs to decide who you are and whether like if you're against it are they with you or they with the much more reasonable person that seemed a seeming person that's arguing against you and at the time in 1999 when the global justice movement was just getting visible in the United States it had been been going in the global South for quite some time most people in the country didn't know who the World Trade Organization was and so when the ruckus Society did this dramatic tactic of climbing like rain look in front of the Seattle Space Needle I literally remember this as a teenager me too this was like powerful politicizing moment powerful for me yeah and this was a collaboration with ruckus and then reinforced Action Network which I also worked out for several years and so these climbers scaled scaled the crane dropped the banner and instead of like a you know instead of saying WTO was like a no sign around rather like an anti symbol they framed it as a clash of values right so democracy's going this way the WTO is going that way the audience can bring their pre-existing values to their assessment of what you're doing and and it tells a whole story in it and this was by the way and in the context of these protests and yes there were some things that the media focused on you know there was some you know windows broken at Starbucks which look I know moral claim that wasn't an effective tactic at this time and nor was it then in my opinion purely because that was like the prime vehicle of distraction of issues Freeman wrote some fucking idiotic columns about how the people processing didn't understand how trade worked but the big takeaway was actually and I remember this because I was I was transfixed it was the first moment if you were a 90s kid where you actually felt like wait a second there are people on the street for a different world that is built it's you know less concrete and specific I think than the much better more developed socialist politics that are animating us now but it was like no there has to be values about labor about democracy about the environment and so on Bill Clinton came out and you know look it's Bill Clinton and it wasn't honest but he was like you know they're right to be protesting he understood viscerally precisely this message mm-hmm which is that look if you drown out all of the bullshit and all the Friedmann Wong curry and all of this nonsense people understand that this is global capitalist bureaucracy against democracy and that was moving the rock yes that swayed his balloon yes and it would have really gone a long way if 9/11 hadn't happened and like dropped bombs on the rock so the I guess the last thing I'll say about that like this is an action just you know ten people were a part of this it's required serious resources to do of course but they dropped this banner the day before the meetings happened when there was going to be thousands of people protesting the meetings interrupting them and the newspapers on that day this was on the front page and so this framed everything that people were going to interpret afterwards and so the goal of this action was to control the narrative of what was about to happen so that people could leverage smarter tactics in opposition to the like Freedman narrative and stuff like that that you were talking about that's that's where the battle of ideas does come in yeah and so there's a lot of different considerations when you design a tactic and this for you know if you're watching forgive the amount of words on this next slide but this is just exam an example of one of the tools ooh there's a lot of words whoa so many ideas so many ideas I have to wait we need that drop I'll just say it I'll step on it I think we need recovery mode drop for the slide buddy yeah yeah because I literally yes every mode for sure I have to say that my brain is still in recovery mode from taking in so many high-level important ideas recovery mode is actually a step on the action planning celebration oh yeah this is a debrief I break this down man so this was developed by beyond the choir initially adapted and organizing cools the planet but these are just some of the considerations designing a tactic is a lot of work and and requires rigor and so it starts by developing your goals and strategy which is basically the map that we started out with earlier and I'm not going to read all of the smaller text under here but if you are organizing with a group and you're listening to the podcast and you want to access this what these dots are are different questions to ask your group that will help you refine your strategy help you consider these different points so the next is the history in the location where are you doing this action what is the history of the like impact that the local community may face if a bunch of police are brought into the area what is the context of the history of work on the campaign knowing your context is is the Friz the first step after so strategy then it's about setting your target and so again a target is who is the person or institution who has the power to give you your demand period full stop and there's ways that and I'll talk later about secondary and tertiary targets which are who pressures those people but the so I'll read a couple of the bullet points which is you know what message will attack extends to the people who have the power to meet our demands will it pressure them to capitulate or enable them to dismiss us or retaliate right so you're when you are escalating your tactics you are flexing your muscle and if you do a tactic too soon that actually communicates we don't have much power and a bunch of angry activists screaming on the sidewalk actually tells the story we're marginal and don't have much power and so then you might want a more creative way of using that that group of people how will you know if you've impacted your target what are your metrics of success and are you prepared for the targets reaction which is part of I'll get to the window smashing thing later and why that's such a dumb tactic but anticipating the reaction of your opposition is really important so next your targets distinct from your audience which is that who do you want to reach with the tactic what do you want to inspire within them are you is the tactic you know who is the media reaching are you just doing social media cuz you're trying to build the enthusiasm of the of your base are you trying to grow your base are you trying to win over new allies before we talked about the spectrum of allies on the last show we talked about tactics being neutral in the sense that any tactic is going to alienate some people and attract other people so are you doing that on purpose are you tracking the people that you want to need and and don't worry about the people that you might alienate if they're not gonna be connected to your campaign anyway the next is relationships and so this is this is he this is about coalition's alliance building in terms of unlikely alliances but it's also about accountability to the people who are most impacted by the issue and so what how grounded are you in the issue that you're taking on and people who live day to day with the material consequences of the issue you're fighting are always the best spokespeople always have the most insights about the nature of the problem Bernie Sanders campaign you have people who work at Walmart's Bernie Sanders is the best advocate for us exactly right yeah right and have the biggest insights for it for right solution they understand it best they live it yeah so then next is timing right so how can we leverage unfolding events right now as opportunities and as the political moment hold potential for us or vulnerability for the target next is the tone that your action could be anything it could be angry it could be jubilant it could be solemn it just depends on the message you're trying to communicate and and and the action logic of that next we talked about message already next is organization how well does it builds the work that you're doing resources really mapping out what's it going to cost in terms of hours time money materials relationships what are the resources that you have then celebration is a super important step which leftists like hate to celebrate when victories are not perfect and it's it's so important to be building a kin building a campaign that you celebrate your victories ym wins and that's when you can go into recovery mode from all the high level ideas and then debrief is when you evaluate and and make meaning of what's going on and we'll talk about that at the end in terms of praxis so that's just like a little taste of some of the tools that are here that I'd really encourage people to use so I just want it so we're gonna need to go to the post game in a minute so we'll get some more of these lessons and we're also talk a little about what's happening in Hawaii in the post game but I just want to throw one out there because it's something I haven't particularly cared to talk about one way or another to be honest cuz I just genuinely think mostly this is a overhyped bullshit story but I want to give you I want to run by you an example to of also like redundancy of tactics and why things may or may not work in certain contests right so and you know I'll just say my reactions I'm not advocating that anybody do anything I think when that guy punch Richard Spencer when Trump is getting inaugurated that will ended up being an incredibly positive cultural moment because there was a symbolism there was an action logic that was like yeah actually like the new thing isn't gonna just be you know people you know with this kind of politics running around the streets and people are gonna you know get in people's faces right now and I'm making no moral claim about this although you know I have I have criticisms a lot of these tactics that are being enlisted that kid and II know who is a complete asshole like absolutely zero respect for I don't care about he's an auctioneer propaganda he's a reactionary propagandist and many other things that I frankly probably should not say his get that milkshake interaction was a net positive for him period it's good for his career raised a huge amount of money his podcast with Joe Rogan was the most downloaded podcast on iTunes period like not just in a vertical so people have to start to ask themselves like in which context does which tactic makes sense and when does something become not only potentially super self-indulgent limited but actually literally precisely the kind of feedback loop that someone like Andino wants and I just and again I can already hear certain people being like you know you don't get it and you're doing you know you're being a you're you doing moralism and I'm I'm telling you stripping everything aside who won from that incident yeah by who is the winner and II know and the brand of that bullshit reactionary concern troll nonsense is the big winner and the oh there's that asshole from Collette and I understand that he's been involved in other things I know that objection to and those things were actually being reported on and documented so that Andy knows first cycle of broader public notoriety was I don't think this guy's really a journalist his second cycle was the most downloaded podcast on iTunes it's not I'm sorry it's not a good tactic and I might trigger some people but it's not a smart play and I almost want to get specifically into in a non moralistic way how do we actually assess our tactics and not become addicted to them yeah exactly the the thing I'll say about that is like this is the best thing we can learn from the global justice era because during that period and for a while afterwards there there would all of these mass mobilizations at the IMF the WTO and there were all of these like really unhelpful debates about violence and non-violence what constitutes violence is break it you know as property destruction violence blah blah blah right and the left loved to get stuck in those moralistic arguments and I I would facilitate coalition meetings at some of these summits and convergences where people were literally invoking like well the Zapatistas defined violence as this so therefore I want to smash a window and it was all ideological it was all abstract and at first as as a non-violence trainer in like earlier in my time it was like a JIT on that level right and tried to complicate it and tease it and then I realized the antidote to it is just doing strategy training because both in the example that you just gave and in you know window smashing at the WTO kind of example you can anticipate the reaction and when you go around that tactic star when when you anticipate both your targets response the police response even if you disagree with maybe your response the media response like there was um you know a g8 protest where there all of you know there's groups that wanted to like like garbage cans on fire and stuff like that and if they had just had a conversation that said we know that if if this happens the police will do mass arrests they will target specific activists and and and it'll be very expensive you know that there are agent provocateurs from the police and other agencies in these protests to begin with and what a perfect conduit if you're already committed to taking a dumb action and so they did it and millions of dollars of legal costs that were then put on the movement of all of these fundraisers to raise money for these imprisoned activists and of course it was unjust that they got like ridiculous sentences I mean like the way the state threw their weight around was was but that wasn't the point the point was if you if you instead proposed like even saying okay let's say that lighting cannon-fire is a smart tactic is it worth all of us collectively raising money like raising six million dollars over the next six months is it is it that good nobody could have said yes and so if you stick in the terrain of strategy and material outcomes and agreed upon goals with with metrics you can actually evaluate all of that nonsense falls to the side is milk shaking uh you know some asshole worth somebody who did not know who he was yesterday well never know he was finding out about him for the first time in the context of him being like I need to make it brew I need to make a distinction between milk shaking and punching because I know was milk shake tan numerous time talking about that yeah I'm physical assault right exactly you're right I know was milk shake that numerous times before the punching happened and he would go up to police and say hey I was just a sailfin to like with the milk shake right he's like yeah what the milk shake I'm like get the fucker yeah get the fuck out here stop wasting our time but even right but even the milkshake thing is another thing to of like again it's hilarious I've seen great ones and when does that become like not the thing to do anymore yeah not as a moral thing but just literally understanding you you can't be addicted to a tactic and I think you know my position is like on an abstract level I'll just put it this way like well I don't want to I actually I just don't want to be super specific but I don't there's any number of movements in different contexts who have enlisted a like actual non theoretical violence at the very least I'll say I don't judge right like do I I clearly judge any tactic that specifically targets innocent civilians of any kind by a hundred percent opposed and I think we all have to oppose or that just fundamentally contradicts what we're trying to do but there's many other contexts that you could take from many other examples whether it's struggling against apartheid or the Cuban or Vietnamese revolutions or the underground resistance to the Nazis or whatever that employ a lot of different types of tactics that I have zero zero cannot emphasize enough zero moral judgment of in the context were in both the media environment we're talking about on the flip side and this something I just want you to touch on briefly before you go to the postgame a huge increase at the state level of laws being put on the books to criminalize in fact literal nonviolent actions so the dial is actually like these social media controversies and little games are getting played out some of them are important some of them I'm sorry or not and then the broader structure is actually a system of policies being put in place that as an example could actually make it legal for somebody to run over a protester doing a highway protest make the people at Standing Rock accountable for the legal bills and security that the you know the private firms sent to terrorize them and then the last thing I just really briefly want to add because I think it's important I think you know marks identified the working class function not as a moral fine I mean the goals of getting rid of a but you know injustice and impression were moral but it was also just it was super strategic was like laborers are the lard that's that's the counterweight to all the power in the world is numbers and so when you start thinking in a large cohesive group that can actually synchronize to do large cohesive things that is when you still have to start thinking of building a left that is literally broadly appealing because you want you need to be able to do mass scale things like strikes and if you want I think the key that take away that that I'm hearing and what you're saying – is that militancy and anger works if you have the moral high ground which is why for example that the the Panthers are so compelling absolutely and I'm not and having the moral high ground isn't just about dressing in a suit and it's not it's not just it's not like respectability politics necessarily but there are some tactics like throwing a milkshake kind of randomly that fundamentally doesn't carry with it the moral weight of you know indigenous people occupying their sacred sites so it's not destroyed I can even I'm sorry just that one other really quick example several years ago Rupert Murdoch was engulfed in a massive scandal Nina the first time and maybe the only time in this man's political career that there was actual somewhat political pressure on him he's called to Parliament he's getting grilled including by politicians that are probably previously been in his pocket louis mensch lewis mensch is asking him hard questions he looks uncomfortable he looks clammy then some asshole throws a pie in his face Johnny Marbles his wife at the time Wendy dang punches the guy all the headlines are idiot throws pie and old man's face wife defends him stories totally obscured mmm-hmm yeah I'm curious if so I have some stories gonna tell in the postgame yes I'm curious if we have time for one more quick one one more quick one never go to the postgame okay then we'll do the last slide for now and I'm gonna save the best ones for the postgame which is why you should become a patron it's why I'm a patron cuz the best shits on the on the postgame tips if you can go to the next slide this is just this is from 2010 this is when in Arizona they passed the SB 1070 show me your papers law and precursor to the Trump exactly exactly and the the the resistance that at the time was led by local groups tono tiara and Puente Arizona as well as the local Unitarian Universalists really organized a route wide variety of mass mobilizations that had all kinds of creativity there was not just a mass March there was like a giant banner hang similar to the WTO thing but these two images I just pulled up because they both have a material component as well as a symbolic component so on the top this was a blockade that we supported in over here these are undocumented people and there's also a priest who are using what are called lock boxes so Griscom was getting excited about chains earlier this is like a version of here that gives you staying talk about trains sure and all the gears about is like how do we hold the space for as long as possible and the space that they're holding is this is where the buses go into and out of when they try to do raids so the day that the law got passed there were all of these raids plans we shut down their jails we shut down their facility that the not allowed the buses to even leave and in that action when we were arrested Arpaio was so I later I'll tell you Arpaio stories of how much of a creep he is but he did our work for us in the media he went out and said these he didn't even say activist he said these community members stopped us from doing these raids there were thousands of people that we were going to deport that we couldn't deport because of what they did and we were like thank you that's like exactly the story that we were going for right but just wanted to give one example of a material consequence and and that was prefigured and then followed by all over the country at ice headquarters and various kinds of jail facilities people are doing blockades right now this is a long tradition in San Francisco where people are blockading and preventing buses from from leaving to go do raids and and bring people in for deportation the image underneath was a component of the campaign where local businesses would put up these stickers that said Arizona human rights zone in their window and what that signified was if the police come and like try to like basically like the police would raid places and they they said if the police come we're going to not let them in invoke our rights as private property holders and if there's any undocumented people in our kitchen and the undocumented back we won't give them up to the cops so it was basically a commitment to civil disobedience and hundreds of businesses all over downtown put them up and then we did a giant kind of human banner and occupied an intersection to like sort of stamp the banner on downtown Phoenix for the day and so those are two examples of what was a multi-faceted action that was part of a much larger escalatory campaign that planted seeds for where we're at now amazing sorry your sentences are amazing that it actually is amazing I'm guys you need to follow all of Joshua's work we have also we've done patron shows together which also get into a lot of this stuff specifically on climate and global ecology activism and we're gonna obviously be doing a lot more together but check out wildfire project that's the primary way to find you get these books and join us in the postgame we have a ton to get to we're gonna be of course doing a debunk with Ben Burgess we're gonna continue some of these lessons get to Hawaii talk about Boris Johnson a little bit got a bunch to get to okay it's a quick wildfire pitch please so if you go to wildfire project org we're actually in a donor drive right now and just like you can become a patron of the Michael Brooks show it would become a sustainer of the wildfire project and what we do is we we accompany frontline movement organizations over long periods of time to support training and development and transformation and we're trying to reach a twenty thousand dollar goal this month to support a couple different organizations that we can maybe even talk more about in the postgame they're doing really incredible work on the cutting edge of a bunch of different movement sectors from economic justice to immigrant rights to climate justice to black liberation and ecological justice so please come and support us anything that you can toss our way we'd be grateful for awesome do it slash team yes as well of course I want to thank everybody I appreciate all of you so much we'll see you in the postgame

33 thoughts on “TMBS – 99 – Lessons From Syriza & Beating Anti-Bernie Bias ft. Krystal Ball & Joshua Kahn

  1. I've seen that Bernie footage many times, first time I noticed Jeffery Dahmer sitting next to him though. BERNIE DONT DRINK WITH HIM!

  2. I thought I saw Sam in the thumbnail. Please tell me the boss man isnt forcing himself on to the show!?

  3. I wonder how come there is so little discussion of Spain (or Portugal, for that matter) in the American leftist media.
    Spain is not only the 4th economy in the Eurozone, but it was hit extra hard by the financial meltdown, was subjected to a Greece-style rescue and then harsh austerity programs that have cut the median salary by 30%.
    Also similarly to Greece, it has a Syriza-like party which almost surpassed in votes the old socialists and a radical movement in Catalonia which has been violently suppressed, with many of its politicians and top activists being jailed on outrageous charges.

  4. The Ruckus Action Strategy Guide with contributions by Joshua Kahn

  5. The critical push has to come from this #LearnMMT
    Governments are NOT Households
    The Neo Liberal Coup that is the EuroZone
    Most Progressives are Neo Liberal

  6. I can see why Krystal was fired by MSNBC. She's too good at her job. Not corrupted. And a free thinker… i.e. A journalist.

  7. "I never knew feudalism would be so funny." Excellent epitome of the story of interns being forced to sign non-compete clauses. First as tragedy…

  8. I wonder if Biden with his nine billion harassment allegations against him, makes her skin crawl tho.

  9. If Lula had been a successful president, Bolsonaro would not have been elected. During the final year of Dilma's first term, Brasil's economy went into serious crisis, and such crisis has to do with Lula actions and inactions. Deindustrialization, reliance on future oil production, the growth of a burdensome public debt (Unlike in the US, the payments of the interest on public debt are really high in Brasil), poor spending priorities (Brasil has much less resources than the US to spend), all of this happened under Lula. Just because Brasil was benefiting from China's hunger for commodities does not mean that the country was being well-managed.

  10. "White supremacy at its core is essentially an economic message." No Krystal. White supremacy at its core is a belief system and collective mental illness. The Democrats can't offer a deal better than white supremacy because the Dems ARE a part of the WS package. It operates in this order: 1) WS, 2) money, 3) that abstract supreme being they call God (which is white in media but stolen from various other cultures), 4) country, 5) community.

    We've seen on multiple occasions where whites have thrown away entire fortunes because they couldn't stop themselves from saying the Hard-R or some other (completely avoidable) racial outburst. That is not the actions of a rational person but someone's whose very identity is wrapped up into social capital of their melanin count (or lack thereof). WS is more important than a roof over their head or the air they breath. This isn't rhetoric. We've seen them decimate the environment, come close to destroying the Earth (and still trying), engage in biological warfare, wipe out whole other ethnic groups, come close to wipe themselves out multiple times, attempt to use both science and religion to control the population and growth of other cultures.

    It's a point now where whites need not be present in order for WS to take form. The amount of white worshiping you see in some homogeneous Asian nations is sickening. It's like walking in a room and discovering one of your kids watching donkey porn. White supremacy led one idiot to bring Christianity to the lost tribe of "untamed savages" just outside of India that ended with him becoming a pin cushion for arrow tips.

    White supremacy is more than a dividing tool as liberals still like to regurgitate. How exactly are the Dems supposed to offer a better option that white supremacy when they can't even figure out how to fill court seat? Andrew Yang had the bright idea to bribe them with 1000 bucks a month. Yang is going to find out the hard way that WS can't be bought (he'd know that if he actually read an American history book).

  11. On Bernard's media strategy, one thing Krystal and Brooksy omit, which I think is incredibly important, is the hidden Ace they hold, Stephanie Kelton, who is constantly lecturing and talking on alt media about how taxes are not revenues: taxes do not fund government spending, they cannot, they drain bank reserves which then the Treasury/Fed must see to being topped up. The Fed/Treasury deficit is the only thing that truly allows (in fact, more correctly "shows" since the deficit is merely an accounting number) governments to net spend into the economy. So if Bernie can learn to stop the bullsh_t about "taxes paying for" M4A and a GND, he will be in much better shape. Taxes scare the middle class, and besides that, taxes on wages are completely pointless and regressive, you tax to limit inflation, which means you only need to tax wasteful and harmful financial activity, and that's (typically) not wage earners. Bottom line: taxes cannot ever "pay for" M4A and free college and GND infrastructure and a Job Guarantee. It all must be deficit spending. If Bernard cannot admit this he is shooting himself in the head.

  12. Syriza and Varoufakis: must read for Lefties is "Adults in the Room". I doubt it was a risk to go with Varoufakis' proposals (in midst of default crisis he had an ingenious proposal to use tax credits as a kind of interim Greek sovereign currency while they were firing up their Drachma reboot in anticipation of a monetary Grexit). Argentina defaulted on it's foreign debt in 2001, then implemented a job guarantee-lite scheme and recovered for a time until neoliberal elites took back power. Greece could have done the same and would be in good shape toady if they had (minus the neoliberal return). Banks threaten sovereign nations when a debt default is proposed, but truth is financial investors do not give a sh_t about debt defaults, they will loan you money no matter what to collect interest. They said they'd never deal with Argentina again, a few months after the debt default it was business as usual for foreign investors. The Greeks (especially Syriza leadership) were too myopic to see this, to look back at recent history in another part of the world, pay heed to international solidarity, and see the just path forward. Syriza were fake socialists, totally into the game for power and prestige. They conned Varoufakis to give themselves a scapegoat. It was a modern Greek tragedy, and you'll see one of epic proportions if you study it closely (Brooksy mentioned the suicides), there will be generations now born into poverty if the Greeks do not default on their debts. People need to realise, these debts are only in part due to business corruption, most of it is lack of control over their currency. Under such circumstances the entity giving out billion dollar loans is the criminal, not the party taking the loan. Also, the entities receiving the loans were not the Greek people directly, it was their corrupt financiers. So that for starters doomed the bailouts. Puritans and protestants always think the borrower who cannot repay is the "sinful", whereas it is equally the lender who is extracting rent and profit from the debt who is just as "evil" — and was traditionally thought so in many cultures. A good read on this is David Graeber's anthropology, "Debt: The First 5000 Years". In my view, if you can afford to give someone money, then do it, there is no need to demand repayment, this is especially true if you have monopoly control of issuing currency like the ECB because then you truly can always afford to give without demanding it be a loan, provided it is non-inflationary currency injection (which in Greece it would be, debt cancellation is never inflationary, it merely gets an economy back to heads above water with a one time marginal jump in prices while supply adjusts to match increased demand, i.e., an adjustment, not an inflation). In Greece it is definitely not the Greek people who are at fault, not one iota, it is the oligarchs and the Troika who are wreaking havoc and visiting horrific suffering and economic anxiety upon the Greek people (who, by the way, are more productive per person than the British, contrary to popular stereotypes).

  13. This is one of the most succinct, explanations of the economic crisis in Greece that I've heard from a north American. You can see why Varoufakis resigned.
    You guys should get him on the show.
    Great job guys, keep up the good work!!!

  14. Mimi, were you Touched by an Old Jewish Man from Brooklyn? When you were Younger, If so Show us on the DOLL…

  15. Also, watching the episode alongside the chat is a real window into the "liberal" mind. When Josh was going through all of the direct and indirect actions that everyone can take to stop this fascist government- EVERYONE in the chat was "Kyle's dope" "Nuh-uh" "Is to" "Is not" "Jimmy sucks" "Yeah!" "But what about Kyle?" "Pakman is dope/shill/dope/shill/dope/shill" "At least Jimmy still sucks, right?" Fuck all of you.

  16. Is the denim thing like the Adidas track suit thing? Does MB have a full costume wardrobe to fit his guests? That's some serious production

  17. 1:03:09 TOTALLY! Bernie should totally travel around the world, people need to have a palpable feel of his presence as a international figure, like a true leader of powerful nation entity should.

  18. As a leftie greek-american currently living in greece my oopinion in syriza is the following.
    They're a prime example why attempts for compromize are unfruitful and why promising one thing and sending out your minister of finance to enforce it only to turn around and undermine him because those promises wouldn't work in the international geopolitical conditions is a bad move.
    Furthermore it's proof that you can't move past capitalism in a single nation because all it takes is one phone call from the US to negate such a project.

    This is why I've come to support DIEM 25: as I have come to the same conclusion that the only way to make europe move away from capitlaism is to unite it so that it acts from a position of superior economic, geopolitical and military strength to the US.
    That or turning the US socialist first.

  19. Thank you for the information on Tulsi's support of the big supporting Vulture capitalists in PR. I support her and it's good to know everything about her.

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