Now you said when we came in you said you saw the Lamar Odom episode of People’s Party Yeah — and you said you were drawn to it because of his addiction issues. — Yes. — You have famously had addiction issues and you famously went sober. And How is sobriety? affecting your work How is it affecting your family life? Well, I wouldn’t have a family without sobriety first and foremost Bell would have never signed up for the old version of me. She’d have been like “you’re funny but not that funny” How you doing party people this is Talib Kweli to MCEO the BK MC. This is another episode of the People’s Party Welcome back I got the lovely and talented Jasmine Lee with us as always how y’all doing give it up for Jasmine Lee in the house What’s up, guys? — Hey, Jasmine. How you doing? — I’m good. I’ve missed you a little bit — I missed you too you know it’s been a whole week. — I know it’s been awhile We gonna have a lot of fun this episode I am bringing to the People’s Party table a friend of mine a Renaissance man and actor a writer a performer and all-around American Badass Dax motherfucking Shepard is in the house tonight. Make some noise. Give it up I think that’s my first time being called that — You just became one Officially someone will enter it into Wikipedia and it’ll be a fact for life — You man you got a motor cycle helmet, overalls It’s just in case it gets gnarly between you and I pop this on and let him fly Now when we did your show the Armchair Expert. — Yes, you were early on and I thank you for your bravery Oh, it was good. It’s a beautiful wonderful show — Thank you — It’s become one of the more popular podcasts You had overalls on — yes, sir. Yeah — that’s like a thing now. — Yeah. Well, okay. I the history is I wore overalls in high school Carhartt overalls and I’ve always loved them. I wear them a lot because I ride a motorcycle and on your motorcycle You’re sure it’ll blow up and back unless you got the overalls on so they’re really practical You don’t want to moon anybody Right, so but I did wear them early on and it did become a thing Like I remember hearing Ellen on on Stern talk about the fact that she had no intention of dancing every episode It’s just something they did in the pilot wasn’t planned turns out people liked it So now she has to dance and she says it hurts. She you know, her her body hurts at this point But what’s she gonna do? — I was watching Ellen the other day and the sheer Volume of the yelling of her fans. Was just almost offensive Whoa, what’s going on in the television? –Well what you don’t see unless you’re a guest on the show you’re sitting in the greenroom ready to go out and there’s just a live feed of the audience and They’re dancing For an hour before the show starts. And each person’s coming down. It’s like old soul train stuff where they’re coming down Everyone’s like turning their attention to them and they do the whole thing Or we had a dance show in Detroit called the all new dance show Which was I was addicted to I watched it every day after school In a basement of some building and people just going for broke at 3:00 p.m. I think that’s when they filmed the show Going for broke? what is that term? Just letting it all hang out. Yeah hundred percent living out loud Dancing with full throttle at 3:00 p.m. In the afternoon. — Like nobody is watching. — Yeah, that’s right. That’s right they had tricked themselves that they were not being filmed and it was It was the contagious I encourage everyone to go on YouTube and look up the all new dance show Yeah, go for broke. Now we talked about Detroit when I did your show Armchair Expert. Detorit right now is like a case study for a gentrification — uh-huh What are your feelings on how to city is changing? well you know, I lived there at the nadir of the Apocalyptic kind of desertion of the city. So I lived there in 94 and It is a complicated issue because I can tell you I just was home Two weeks ago I was downtown I did the Fox Theater and then I went got Coney dog and stuff and it’s so much nicer. It’s crazy People are walking around the city’s vibrant. I wasn’t having been there at the very bottom of it I was like, I don’t know man. I don’t know if this place can come back It’s just a hundred years of industry seeped into the ground all you know, fire coming out of the ground in these fields. So I think this is happening in Los Angeles as well. I think it’s Yeah, yeah, Brooklyn it’s uh It’s interesting because I am liberal by nature and I am I also believe in capitalism and I believe in investment and I believe that In order for people to put money into a place There’s gonna be expectations and I think it’s a really complicated answer. I think there’s I just interviewed Garcetti mayor Garcetti of Los Angeles and we brought this up because my thing was I’m a liberal and I benefited from rent control when I was broke for ten years here but at the same time, I mean that the kind of you know The Constitution has two goals the quality and liberty and those things don’t match up always there They’re opposed quite often. So part of me says well, hold on Does anyone have a right to live in Beverly Hills? Do people have a right. I have a right to live in Beverly Hills I kind of would go no, no one has a right to live in Beverly Hills And that seems obvious but then if you extend that out to Los Angeles, Los Angeles is New York City It’s Tokyo. Its London, it’s a place, you want to be here. It’s it’s a supply and demand issue and I don’t never willing to exit reality to support my kind of political position on things I And that’s what was cool about interviewing the mayor. The mayor has to make the city run he may have entered or she may have entered with certain politics and ideologies, but Where the rubber meets the road they got to make the city function and quite often You’ll see people moving more into a pragmatic direction. So I you know, I don’t know. I don’t think it’s What I was gonna say is I thought he had a really interesting idea, which was he wants growth for LA He wants us to build more he also wants to supplement people who are on the cusp of losing their apartment because once that happens now you’re homeless and now even if you’re a fiscal conservative now, we’re gonna be paying $30,000 a year for services of emergency rooms and all this stuff So even economically it makes sense to keep people on in houses. What are your thoughts on gentrification? Well, you know I think what’s most interesting about your answer is that you threw in that you are a liberal but also a capitalist uh-huh, and I think that um, obviously we live in a capitalist system and obviously if we’re talking about Politics and we’re talking about mayors if you’re talking about the mayor. He’s the mayor of in a capitalist system So he has to play by those rules — Yeah –there’s a lot of people in my community I come from like a sort of an activist community lot. My people are are staunchly Anti-capitalist. Yeah And there are also to be fair a lot of people who think the idea of saying that they are anti-capitalist is sexy Yeah, but they’re not really anti-capitalist Yeah By the way that they live and behave and they like Nikes and other things — I think that a lot of people that are anti-capitalist really are is capitalists with restrictions capitalists with oversight capitalists with regulation right Which is when you look at Europe that that’s really what you’re kind of looking at But but for people look it’d be one thing if we were having this conversation in a vacuum on Mars But we do have data we do have history and the reason communism did not work above all things forget the ideology When you have a centralized location Making decisions for far-reaching issues the market They can’t be made in real time. They can’t be you can’t adjust from Moscow What’s happening in Siberia in a breadline? But if you let the people who make the bread and the consumers if you let them sort it out They’ll sort it out people can sort shit out. The market will answer these problems. So that’s why I believe Communism forget the ideology is fundamentally flawed is just you can’t have a centralized entity Solving problems in a country 3,000 miles wide with 300 million people. I don’t think it works but That’s not to say interestingly that it couldn’t now with like AI in the future It is possible that a centralized AI could be making the best decisions for all people Real-time this fast, but just currently that’s not what happens. I I don’t consider myself a communist. I agree with your criticisms of communism. I don’t consider myself a capitalist. — Mmm-hmm Even though I live and work in a capitalist system Because I have common Criticisms of capitalism that some people who might lean communists have — right — but III think it’s interesting in the intro and we’re talking about gentrification because gentrification is a Result of capitalism. You’re not gonna have like it’s like that’s what it is So if you’re already making a stand like okay, well, I’m a capitalist which is what you said then you kind of have to accept Some of the gentrification. Um It becomes an issue for people of color and for poor people because they’re they’re often the ones that are pushed out first But that again is a result of capitalism But but really quick can we just explore that? So is the solution to that they are getting pushed out? Disproportionately the same way they’re disproportionately Incarcerated all these things. There’s no denying that that’s obvious but is the solution to Fix the end result as opposed to fix the problem why wouldn’t brown people be able to compete at the same level as white people and make the same resources and live in the same city to Me it’s like what let’s solve that problem. Let’s let’s have go ahead Just the gentrification because I actually live in Area that is being gentrified and my problem with it And as you’re saying, you know fix the problem of why can’t black and brown people be on the same level as white people They’re kicking people. They’re bringing in money and making better Living environments for other people instead of going in and fixing the city for the people that are already living there why but when you think about Low-income that is like a problem that messes up everything people are stealing more because they’re not making enough money They’re stealing more because they can’t make enough money to pay their rent And if you fix that problem, then we could probably have a lot less people in jail We could probably play on a lot more better playing fields But it’s just not fair for people that have lived in a place their whole life for them to see it getting Fixed up and you getting kicked out and right now the rent in LA is just outrageous. It really is it is It is outrageous, but my question is should it be cheap should the should the second best city in the country be cheap to live in? It should be afforadble See I more think people should make enough money to live here that’s the side of the equation that I’d like to focus on is is let Enable people to generate an income that would allow them to live here That to me seems like a long term solution — that’s a war on poverty thing Yeah, which I just want to be very clear. I’m not arguing for any kind of trickle-down bullshit or anything like that I’m just saying, if we achieve some Utopian objective in this country where Everyone had the same access. Everyone had the same privileges. Everyone had the same Support now its just game on. Can you, is your hustle good enough that you can live in LA and that I’m up for So it you know, but again, I just wanna also be clear I am I’ll take a lot of positions when you and I debate — right we’ve done this. — Yeah, ultimately I just want to say my real position is I am NOT on the right But I respect the right for carrying the torch of Liberty. That’s what they’re gonna do their carrot They’re worried about individuals and we on the left are worried about the mass and in the community and both are great They’re great. Both are very virtuous pursuits in in any discourse. You need someone pointing out like hey, that’s kind of Disincentivizing this thing that we kind of all value. I appreciate that — Right I think what you’re talking about, and I know that you don’t consider yourself a right-wing person or consider yourself a conservative at all No No If we’re talking about politics, you know, I’m we’re both were the born born the same year. We’re the same are — Yeah — So we’re old enough to remember that even Back in the day when Reagan was the Trump of the Republican Party, right? And Reagan is considered, you know They love him — terrible well I’m talking about in the black community Regan is like — oh! To Republicans he’s like a superhero — In the black community he’s like a demon right He’s like, you know, he’s like demonized well demonized might not even be the right word because some of it he might actually earn even in that error the conservative People spoke on television the ones who wrote in magazines the ones who wrote in newspapers They had a certain amount of respect for the people on the other side — right — There was a certain amount of discourse and dialogue and I think that’s when you saw Kamala Harris Argue with Joe Biden on the stage and what she said was he started out saying, you know “We I got together with people who I knew were racists, right and I was able to get something done” She’s like you knew they were racists. Why are you celebrating them? And so that argument becomes? well, do we just de platform this racism or you know, it becomes the argument of whether or not That talk is worth having? — Well, I would argue as we sit here in the aftermath of it It was incredibly worth having. — Mm-hmm. — I think it pointed I think it It was worth having too I think but I think Joe Biden is tone-deaf to certain issues Where as in the way that he frames it. The way that he talks about it He gave her he gave her ammunition because he was a he didn’t acknowledge in the right way That who he was the harm the harmfulness of who he was dealing with he was more excited Ability to get something done. — Yes, and so I’m not defending him. — Right right. — He’s not my pick. — Neither. Am I? Right, right, so he’s not my pick I’m not defending him but you and I’ve touched on this a little bit and then I just interviewed Kemal Bell and he and I talked about too think the reason you’ll see a lot of white folks dig in is Because the stakes seems so fucking high like if he were to concede he errored He might now take on a label of a racist for the rest of his life and because there doesn’t seem to be a gradient between David Duke and and Hillary Clinton Not getting the black lives matter message, right Because there’s no gradient in there. It’s not like oh, she’s a two and he’s a ten. It’s just racist. You’re David Duke Guess what? I’m gonna defend that I’m not David Duke. Okay, I’m gonna defend that I’m not a Nazi now am I biased? Fuck yeah I’m a human being I categorize everywhere I look There’s us and them They’re you know And I’m trying to transcend that and I’m trying to evolve past that but it has to start with me feeling safe enough to admit That — Admitting it is the key Yeah, I think that’s what what race I think America hasn’t dealt seriously or honestly with the issue of race. I agree that he’s not going to back down from that position, but when it comes to Sexism. When it comes to creepy Joe. Yeah, he’s gonna make a video and he’s gonna unbutton his thing. He’s gonna be like “Look, I’m just a handsy guy.” — Did he do that? — He did he made a video and he made like a sort of apology for how many people he’s been groping. — Okay you this is not an appropriate joke but I made it and I want to share it with you I said if he doubled down on that whole thing and just his campaign was Joe Biden, “Feeling It” I think people would be like, “No that’s fucked up but now I’m kinda in” If he just went and ran right at it and just said Joe Biden, Feeling It 2020 And it had little hands Again anyone who has felt Diminished by his touching I apologize to you but just for the community, I think the jokes worth making — yes I I think it was a funny joke. I don’t know if we’re gonna keep Let it just punch right to the joke you skip all the lead-up You get edited that way right people like they’ll take shit you say yeah and they cut out real pertinent words Yeah, there are people all the time. Yeah, um, I get edited like that on Twitter people chang my tweets Yeah, you and I met on Twitter. — Yes, we did. — Um, we became friends on Twitter because our our Twitter trolls overlap — uh-huh Well, mostly I’m just a huge fan of yours and I was following you — I’m a fan of yours But you started jumping in — You’ve found a a lot of your friends through Twitter feeds –the people who have come on this show Yes, that’s what it is. Yeah, this show has sort of Developed out of my conversations on Twitter and the wonderful people I meet. Right — right — and you’re one of these people but we do we do because you started to jump in and Sort of help out. — Sure sure sure — here and there sparingly Yeah, right and then and then we started DMing and be like, okay I’m gonna come I’m gonna try to check out your show. You’re gonna try to check out my show — Yes — you came to my show with Joy Brian. — Yes — my wife — yes — my television wife — His TV Wife. And I Introduced you as an all-american badass because you was ready to thump Like one of those Twitter people showed up in my shows — Yes. Yes he did — he protested the show He was holding up a “Fuck Kweli” sign Outside of the show and fans went out there they tore up his sign and then he came back and he’s woofin’ outside He’s tweeting at me. I’m I’m on Twitter and you were like “what are you looking at?” I’m like there’s some guy outside saying he’s outside and he wants to fight and you’re like “Well let’s go outside, let’s go” Yeah, it’s one of the worst parts of my personality. You should’ve seen me when I was an alcoholic it was much worse. We gonna talk about Addiction as well, but I I Say that to say that um, I really appreciate you. — Oh, thank you — and I appreciate in that moment It was and you could see it on YouTube. I’m sure for people who are watching but um, you know, it wasn’t violent — No — it wasn’t Irrational — yeah — it was just like well, let’s see what’s going on And you know, I’ve had friends say to me you’re so funny and laid-back it’s weird that you have this history of getting in a lot of fights and I’ve And I’m like, yeah, I’m never screaming. I’m not I’m like, oh we’re playing one-on-one. Let’s do it Like if you look in that video, I’m smiling. I’m like well something’s about to go down Those are the ones you gotta worry about! I’m right in the prime spot to drop this gentleman And I’m kind of giddy and again I hate this part of myself iiiiii attribute it to growing up in a you know In a in a lower-income blue-collar town where you you won glory by You know fighting at the movie theater and Friday night Well, I mean, I feel like I’m part of that — Also raised without a dad. So anytime I get male approval sign me up — Jump over a fire, I’m in! Ride at wheelie on a motorcycle, I’ll learn that — You sound like Kanye West at the White House I call that cafeteria syndrome Because you feel like you have to fight because if you don’t when you go to the cafeteria Everyone’s gonna talk about you the next day oh, yeah, or or even worse and this is what I would really struggle with if I had a son is You don’t fight back in then the rest your ride in school is you’re the dude that someone’s gonna earn their stripes on and you’re like I’d rather go down swinging and the next guy knows like it’s gonna be a fight You know — Now was Punk’d your introduction to Hollywood and this world — Yes I had been out here for about 10 years before auditioning and getting nothing — The part of your personality that you just apologized for I feel like I had to do with why you got Punk’d — Oh 100% Yeah They were like who can improv and is not afraid if it goes sideways and they found me. In a lot of ways Punk’d is sort of the Godfather of this YouTube prank culture Um, I think so, you know, but a lot of it, Punk’d had very specific rules, you know, your friends and certain, you know It’s just it was like it was done. Tastefully. — Yeah Well, what’s interesting is that’s not my personal sense of humor. Like we’ve hung out my I have no judgment of it either like these dudes who do roasts and stuff and the women who do roasts? They’re great at it. Jeff Ross is a genius, you know, — she does Roast Battle with Jeff Ross So I’m all for it. This is not me like that wasn’t how hmm my friends all got along growing up I’m more I’ll make jokes that I know are kind of, you know, they’re generally gonna be at my expense Also, I’ll say you know so so it was weird to take on that role where you really were just fuckin with people in sometimes a nearly criminal way and I was I can do this It’s not necessarily like what I would go out and do but so cuz when I was on that show — It was a job for you? Yeah, when I was on the show, and I got to do interviews and stuff They would go like, you know, “what’s the most recent prank you pulled? I’m like, oh I’m too lazy to pull pranks like, you know If someone did 12 other people planned it I’ll show up and try to execute it But it’s not my nature to plan us like you hear Clooney on these talk shows He’s got all these stories about like pooping in a guy’s litter box. They trick the guy into thinking his cat had a human-sized I mean there’s this elaborate nine steps and I’m like that you that’s a lot of time and God bless you You know Punk’d and jokes and pranks and you famously pranked a friend of mine Justin Timberlake. — Oh, right, right That’s really the episode that made our show big. — Yeah, I remember. — Yeah, he was kind of really like coming on as a huge Entity and yeah. I think that really propelled us into — and now you’re working with him again — Yes in theory in theory. Yeah. I mean he’s a producer so I he doesn’t give me a pep talk You’re really busy man, you’re like the white Steve Harvey Oh thank you, thank you Or the or the less white Ryan Seacrest. No, I love Ryan Seacrest He started on American Idol right? He did yeah, he and the other guy who I remember was Dunkleman. — I don’t know where Dunkleman is — Yeah, I pray for his safe return I just have to say you’re in one of my favorite all-time movies. Baby Mama Oh sure And one of my favorite quotes is when she breaks up with you and you’re like, I don’t get a bang all your friends consider your friends banged and I’ve said that to an ex before Consider them banged. Yeah and my license plate said I think “my girlfriend Rocks” my girlfriend does not rock! now my favorite role of yours is um You’re like you’re you did king of the hill and you did idiocracy and I’m a huge Mike Judge fan Yeah, like from back in the days when he had the band judge like I’ve been following Mike Judge entire career Freeto was a fucking idiot. — Yeah. Yeah, right one of the dumbest available One of the dumbest characters I’ve ever seen, you’re clearly not an idiot — Right, right. Yeah. I play a lot of idiots! I think it’s hardest for my mom, you know, because she’s like you went to college No one thinks you’re smart Um the checks still cash I was watching an interview with you and you were talking about your favorite movies and you mentioned the thief by Michael Mann which I Haven’t seen so I’m gonna go check that out. But then you said Raisin’ Arizona Yeah, and that’s like a movie I watched once a month. — Yes It’s — I talk about the salad days because that I movie I’m like, I describe my youth as a salad days — Uh-huh — you know and I always hear Hunt’s voice in the back like “that was nice” I was just in Michigan last week and I was my childhood best friend Aaron Weekly and I were like walking through the woods with Our daughters and I out of nowhere he goes “when we didn’t have crawdads, we ate sand” You Ate what? “We ate sand.” I go “I made my own crawdads once mama used to make ’em in a big old pot of water I didn’t use water and it came out like black popcorn” like those all those lines are just cemented. — Yeah man that’s like my favorite Comedy — that was like a and we’re the same age I don’t know if it was the same for you, but I watched that movie and it’s actually the very first time I thought about the mechanics of the movie I’m like Why is this like when he steals the pampers or the Huggies and they go on that long set piece where the dogs are chasing? them to the grocery store — which by the way rivals Ronin with Robert De Niro and Steve McQueen bullet as one of the best car chases Yes, and so and then he flies out the window of the pickup truck and lands in the grass Right and I was watching it and I just became aware of like why does this look so different like what is what is going? On why is this so funny? How did they show a guy fly through the window? How are they showing the dogs point of view run through the hallway? How is all that happening? Not that I figured it out then and it was decades later. In fact on Miller’s Crossing There’s an amazing extra on the DVD where the DP of all the early Cohen brothers movies Explains why it looks like that. It’s just all about lenses It’s like a tutorial on lenses and I watched that and I was like, oh my god, this is great I don’t have to go to film school. I get it now — You can get everything on YouTube any expert on anything watching YouTube. — Yes, you can and like any tool was great. But what I’ve been experiencing recently is um, You know as you know, like for my Twitter engagement I argue with people all the time, and I’m debating people all the time, and I’m realizing that The people that are the least informed are the people who come to me is saying I depend on YouTube for everything. Oh You know like the people like because what happening is this is all confirmation bias They’re watching YouTube videos made by people they like whose opinions they agree with Yeah
and They’re just going down those rabbit holes and just staying there and then it gets to the point where you can’t even present them any Other information because they’re like I didn’t see that on YouTube Yeah, it’s almost like watching an addict which is like you’re not gonna talk sense into them you’re just gonna hope that the bottom comes as quick as possible because the result of that I believe the the wormhole of confirmation bias is First of all, it’s an old adage you find what you’re looking for — Yeah — you know that goes in life like if I’m walking around thinking everyone thinks I’m dumb Guess what? I will hear confirmation of that everywhere. I you know, whatever my fear is and whatever chip I have on my shoulder It’ll get confirmed but I do just hope that there was the net result of that is I’m not happy and why aren’t I happy and why aren’t I connecting with people and you just kind of pray because I don’t believe That that people really connect over Negativity because let’s say you and I go like, oh, I hate Justin Bieber. You’re like, yeah. I hate him too. Cool We have a connection All right. So next Thursday, let’s not go to his concert. There’s like nothing to build upon. Hey We both hate this so let’s not Consume it well, that’s not an activity. That’s not an action. But if you and I go like oh, I fucking love Neil Diamond dude, he’s playing in Vegas. Let’s go Yeah, now it’s like it’s like a positive step, you know begets another positive step and now we’re now we’re doing something Yeah I mean I didn’t want to make Jasmin feel bad about — oh I don’t feel bad — learning from YouTube because I like if I needed like go to A party and wear a tie. Yeah, I’ll go on You Tube and look how to tie a tie You have to use YouTube responsibly because I use YouTube to braid my Knotless Braid, shameless plug But I looked at three different Youtubes before I started it because you can see the first one and they’d show you a way to do it You’re like, oh, I don’t know if that one’s the correct way So you have people will just look at one video and say this is this instead of still doing research and looking at a couple of different ways — by the way the machine you’re using the computer has an algorithm that’s showing you what you like So you you can’t even really fight your way out of it You got to sign on to someone else’s computer and see what the hell they suggest for that person But I did change recently a washer Washing machine gasket that had gone bad and I got it out of the box. I’m like I can I can do this I’m just gonna stare at it for a minute. I was like, I’m feeling lazy go on YouTube thirty seconds later, you know I think I could do open-heart surgery. I swear to god — You build like engines and shit this guy builds engines from scratch — YouTube and Grey’s Anatomy I can operte I’ll let you be my Point person on all my medical issues if you’re watching Grey’s — Now shout out to my man John Forté I went to visit him recently and He had a party in a BBQ and we’re at the barbecue and I get into this conversation with this guys has a beautiful Baby, just white couple the bouncing beautiful baby, baby boy We start talking about children and I mentioned I’m doing this show and I’m you know Your name came up. I mentioned I did Armchair Expert he’s like, “I love that show this and that” and We start talking about Joe Rogan. — Uh-huh — and I tell him that I think last time I saw Joe Rogan I was with you. Oh I tell him that I’m a fan of what Joe Rogan does and I respect him But he says some things that I don’t agree with and he’s also brought some people on that I don’t agree with and we start talking about that and When I when I told him some of the things like Joe Rogan and made a joke a few years ago About going to see Planet of the Apes and then he wanted to the audience an audience was the real Planet of the Apes and the joke was it was like in a Black neighborhood or something like that. It was a bad joke. –Really?! — It was a bad joke Um, I hang out with a lot of comedians. I don’t always like all their jokes, right? — Yeah, right — you know there it was just I know that he’s a comedian as well as well as other things he does So yeah, and I heard when I saw the tape, I’m like, okay, he’s a comedian He went too far for my taste right now. Yeah, but this guy, you know, he hadn’t heard that he started talking to me about He’s like man. I love Joe Rogan because he puts people on and I like like Jordan Peterson. — Oh sure, right and you and me talked about Jordan Peterson Yeah. Yeah — And we — No we talked mostly about Sam Harris — we did we spoke about him for a second You said you didn’t fuck with him, right? We had it we started debating more about Sam Harris. — Yeah, yeah But I say that because um as someone now you’re in this space — uh-huh– Now you are a Joe Rogan Although I just will point out I think his audience is almost all male mine’s almost all female. So we’re almost opposite shows They like Kristen They’re like “Well if she likes him maybe I’ll like him” But let’s explore yeah yeah so Do you think that were you gonna ask if I have some responsibility? — Well, no, so I’m just I’m just it’s just interesting to me that He went to that name and is like, um, I stopped having a conversation with him after that, oh really because For me at this wonderful barbecue with all these beautiful babies running around. Yeah. I’m looking at this guy I’m like, we’re not gonna agree about Jordan Peterson — Right — just not know. I’m not gonna cut any slack on that I’m gonna just be hammering down on this guy while we’re drinking beers at this barbecue and so it’s like now is not the time to have that debate. — I agree with you I Definitely will recognize I like I try to at least recognize when I’m the Unstoppable force and you’re the immovable object and there’s no point, you know, it’s futile. So there are plenty of topics I’m not gonna debate with someone who loves God that there’s no God. Why would I why would I do that? Right and that, that makes you like the worst atheist ever But what would be worth having I think is a conversation where you like this dude, then you find out he likes Jordan Peterson I guess it would be helpful if you were interested. What is it about Jordan Peterson that he liked? Yes, see because I think that’s relevant I think people’s intentions are relevant as much as the pendulum seeming to swing in a direction where intentions are not relevant You know I think there’s a difference between you’re walking down the street and you could get like this and you look and a dude would bump into you on accident versus a Dude shoved you well, what’s the difference the difference is the intention — And that’s it. That’s an interesting point When it comes to like in that situation, I’m respecting my friend’s house. Uh-huh If it was my home, I would have continued with the discussion right? I’d have been respectful Why why do you like him? and well He said this and I would have just — we like that too, like right we like that, without those people What are you and I doing — that’s right — Sitting around agreeing with each other, it would be boring — That’s right Need we need we need to be able to see different points of view but the intention thing isn’t interesting to me because when it comes to Oppression. It is said that Intent doesn’t matter intentions don’t matter because the result is always Oppression so you can say I didn’t mean to be racist doesn’t matter if you were if the racism still happened but if we’re talking about conversation and we’re talking about debate and we’re talking about the difference between you and me having a mutual respect for each other and Agreeing to debate right agreeing to sit down to talk then it’s done out of respect We we talked about the fact that on social media You don’t get the same respect some anonymous guy named Pig hunter 82 Whatever — and you’re giving him the same respect you’d give me or you know Someone else you — right but I’m not debating that guy The example I always give is like there’s always a dude in front of 7-eleven with a parrot on his shoulder I don’t get into a fight with that guy that guy is in front of 7-Eleven with a fucking parrot on his shoulder and we’re probably not gonna see eye to eye on Most things why even stop and do that, but someone on Twitter because it’s in writing or something it seems to validate that then it’s a real opinion and not I’ll just remind myself like this dude might be tweeting in front of 7-eleven with a parrot That’s a great visual He might’ve been not in the same classes, he might be a little bit — Who knows what’s happening? But back to really quick the racist thing which I totally agree with you the intentions aren’t Here’s what I here’s what I reject personally is Many things are sold to us as binary and I don’t like that like either Intentions are everything or results are everything and I’m like fuck that. It’s a stew. Yeah, it’s both things so yes, if When it comes to oppression like when it when it comes to platforms cuz it is about conversation. That’s not its same context Yes
And it I think we are smart enough and can deal in nuance enough again to draw distinction between David Dukes motives and Hillary Clinton’s motives. — I think it’s dishonest not to — right I think it’s worse, we’re elevated enough that we can We can make a distinction there. — There’s there’s there’s so much so much critique You can have of Hillary and Bill Clinton and think they’ve done from from Haiti. They hate the Clinton Foundation to to Supporting the the crime bill in 94. There’s a super predator thing. There’s so many things — for our war in Iraq — right? There’s so many things that you could say but Anyone who says that she’s just as bad as a David Duke or for me if they say she’s just as bad as Trump I feel like that’s a dishonest argument. –Yeah, I’m not I’m not yeah, I’m not buying into that.There’s a pretty qualitative difference in my opinion Yeah, and and in order to be honest, you have to be able to say everything that she does do that You critique that well, but be honest about it. — This is another soapbox of mine though I think we’ve entered an era where yeah you and I in debated. This is um you have to be in a Hundred percent with what someone believes to publicly say you like the person and I think that’s horseshit There are people that make great points on one topic and they’re totally out to lunch on another and so I can celebrate That person I’m sure is a great neurosurgeon. I’m sure he’s wonderful Is he? He doesn’t believe in evolution I hope he’s in a state of flow and he’s not thinking about what they’re doing. — But I know I think I Really thoroughly enjoyed and got a lot out of our debate about Sam Harris because I feel like right now I feel like we still Disagree about Sam Harris but what I realized was to fall out of that was there were a lot of people I think who might agree with you or might agree with me who saw that and say here’s to people who respect each other Who can have a disagreement but still talk about it and people want to see a lot more of that in this country And I think we gave them a good example of it. — That’s my favorite part of the takeaway I don’t I didn’t care how many checks I had in my category people who agreed with me or how many had and you what? I was most happy about was how many people just voiced that exact? observation like well These dudes got up hugged Loved each other and they don’t agree on this one or two things — and it makes me think that I can still bring you around to sam harris Still open — it’s gonna be tough as we’re friends. — I know yeah, and I have friends I have friends I promise you I have friends that you were probably diametrically opposed to philosophically on certain issues Yeah — I promise you they probably not as famous as sam harris or in the national conversation like Sam Harris’s. — Yeah Yeah, and again, I’m also coming from much different place than you that I acknowledge like. I’m totally empowered I’m a six foot two white dude. It’s white boy day all the time — So you’re acknowledging your privilege I am — We did Angela Rye on this show and Jarett said “I’ve never seen two people Acknowledge their privilege more in my life” But when I was younger, I loved ice cube And it was a very at least for me at 19 a pretty militant Pro black Anti-white at times message. And of course, I could enjoy it because that man wasn’t eventually gonna Stand in the way of me Accomplishing something so I could enjoy it and be fine with the fact that he hates some section of white people If it were reversed if I was black and it was a fucking hammer skins or whatever Nazi band That’s very scary because that dude might be a judge or something, you know So I recognized that and it’s hard for me not to go like look I loved Ice Cube and I loved all these people that you know, sometimes — He can get a movie greenlit these days — Oh Yeah, well, yeah and he obviously, you know, he entered it’s kind of what you said about Punk’d it’s like a Lot of times the thing that brings you to the party Isn’t the thing that you should double down on to stay at the party So he kind of he evolved and changed in real time, or maybe he didn’t Maybe he has the exact same views, but — I think I think Ice Cube absolutely evolved into his rhetoric in his language I think his political views are the same but I think he’s smarter and more strategic and more tactical Yeah as a young fiery sort of punk rock hip-hop thing. He’s like fuck the police Yeah, these fucking motherfuckers is they fucking fucking me out of these contracts? Well Booker. Yeah like yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah No punches, he’s my favorite rapper back in the day. — Yeah. I loved him loved him. I I don’t want to you know, we we had a great conversation about Sam Harris on your show Yeah, and I don’t want this to be the same Harris show. I will say I Will say that if he’s your friend and I would encourage you to get him to rethink his position on Charles murray and the bell curve. That’s just terrible terrible stuff. — Well, but I think he has okay I think he has I think when he had Ezra on, Ezra Cline, I think — I saw that, I did watch that. — Yeah, yeah yeah, and Ezra Clearly just knew a lot more about charles Murray then I think Sam did then I did He knew about what political Agenda he ultimately was exposed to have that. He was a part of a think tank that proposed bills that he know would so You know and and I just want to be clear on what I was Even supporting or defending in that is that I think his works rubbish. Mm-hmm. I think it’s horseshit that there is a Population or racial or ethnic? Ethnicity by a bias in intelligence or difference. I just as an anthropology major. I that’s not what I think but I defend the right of someone to Publish research that they have come up with and then let that be attacked and I don’t know if that person Should be put into jail. I kind of think that’s what saying I think Sam got a little bit myopic in that position that He feels like he has been often Challenged in his right to have controversial opinions. And so of course, that’s the thing He most empathized with this person and I I don’t think he would defend Yeah I think the that speaks to this to privilege that you brought up is that if you’re I this I get this all the Time. Yeah to make an issue. I wrote an essay called a free speech or Die. I’ll send it to you Okay, and the premise of the essay was that freedom of speech is one of the greatest things on earth It’s one of the greatest principles of all time We should celebrate it. I use my free speech very often I right now I am banned from certain German venues because I support the idea that people should have the right to want to Boycott Israel if they feel like that right? I’m not the boycott Israel guy I’m not the boycott anybody guy, but if people want to do it if people ask me to respect the Boycott I’m like
I respect your right to boycott and somehow I think I got a Muslim name so I become the face for this thing Right, right. I’m not complaining about being disinvited from these venues. They have every right to disinvite me from these venues I have I use my free speech to say what I want to say And if that means that you don’t want me in your venue I don’t want to be there but I think a lot of People on on the right wing and a lot of people who live this life of privilege They don’t face the same amount of oppression everyone faces a little bit of oppression. I Sam Harris. — Well life is oppressive Iets start with that, you enter a public school and people are bigger than you, smaller than you are prettier than your ugly There’s levels to it right? Yes, just like you said there’s levels to between David Duke and Hillary Clinton — You know what’s oppresive? junk-food It’s so hard we have this will to kill us that are very good initially, right? Yeah anyways — but no I just think that um when you’re You become tone-deaf and like you said myopic when? You’re looking for reasons to be oppressed that are not there the idea that Jordan Peterson’s freedom of speech is under threat to me is a ridiculous thing to defend because I think that if I wanted to put on a a Nazi suit and go goose-step and down the street in America I have the right to do it right if somebody punches me in the face They they are gonna get arrested. That’s right I’m not gonna get arrested which means my freedom of speech is well protected. There’s consequences for that But if that person is okay with facing those consequences You might have to be okay with getting punched in the face for saying some Nazi shit Yeah, you know and we just we just debate we just debated this Monica and I and Again, I don’t think it’s a binary proposition a Big part of me is like no peaceful protest is the way I agree Gandhi Martin Luther King — peace is to go love is to go peace is to go but no Justice No Peace — What is exactly considered a peaceful protest then because I was a part of a peaceful protest and I ended up in jail Well, that’s kind of if the peaceful protest goes correctly You should end up in jail people should see it and people should have a wake-up call where they’re like, that’s crazy Why are we doing this? Let’s change our policy. — Yeah, that’s what MLK and then was doing Yeah, Cornel West does that you know? He shows up if the attention of I might get arrested because that’s the visual that’s gonna change people’s minds now so with that said I can also say I would not be a good candidate for peaceful protests if I lived in a community that Was being physically assaulted by other human beings. I feel like I would assault back so I can acknowledge that I’m asking someone to do something I wouldn’t well that’s what antifa is right like I When I the protests I’ve been at and you run into these Antifa people like mostly mostly white people Antifa’s not a white group But it’s a lot of white people a lot of them Recognized that black people we can’t, the guy who punched Richard Spencer in the face I think that he comes from a crew of people Like a black guy can’t do that, a black can’t run around punching people in the face So as a white person, I’m gonna use my privilege To punch this Nazi in the face because I know it’s gonna be easier for me to get out of that situation Yeah. Yeah. I just I guess it’s you’re really it boils down to as well Are you taking kind of a utilitarian view of it? Like what does the does the means justify the ends or does the ends justify the means or the means justify the answer is that a Kantian viewpoint What should you do in that moment? Or are you or are you just looking for what the end result is? And is it worth that sacrifice? Those are just their look their debates that have been raging since fucking Plato and they’re hard and again They’re kind of like the two virtues. We have like this. It’s at best. It’s gonna be some compromise Before we move on can I tell you guys my favorite video on white privledge Oh my gosh I don’t know if you guys have seen it, but it’s this guy and he looks like a hippie he has long hair whatever and he’s talking to somebody who’s like protesting abortion and they said something about we should be um, Abortion is bad and he literally steps back and does this roundhouse kick and kicks her phone out of her hand And I’m like a black person could never do this, but it was so funny I watched it like 10 times. — I need to see this send it to me — Yeah, I will send it to you. So it’s weird though, just to put a pin in my hat because I gave two examples of where I thought it was effective and worked I also think the Black Panther thing in Oakland with the guns was compelling and interesting Got them into the state Senate and got them heard, And so, — you know gun laws we’re changed after that gun laws were changed um, you did protest When you did not get married until gay people could get married in California’s a form of protest. — Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah yes, and I don’t know if you like this comparison, but it’s Been met yes been met with like 50/50. Yeah, they like it or they don’t like it you know a lot of our friends are gay and It felt very weird to ask a big section of our friends to come celebrate A right we had and they didn’t have and I said it would be like if all your friends were black and you threw a party at the front of the bus in the 50s Good analogy or bad? A lot of people try to compare gay rights to black rights But that analogy was actually spot-on because it’s pretty much what it is No, she is exactly. Right and there’s is there there’s there’s there’s Credible critique of people trying to compare gay rights to black rights, and there’s completely ridiculous critique of that You know I’m saying because it’s all civil rights, but I think that’s an apt Comparison — and I also want to say thank you for processing gay marriage because are you married to a woman? I’m not but you know, I just got broken up with but She’s now on the market. — I’m on the market Can I just say I won’t tell one little story because it really it really is it’s it’s totally on topic of what we’re kind Of talking about about remaining open here. So Ted Olson, you know who that guy is Ted Olson I think is the most successful lawyer arguing in front of the Supreme Court Over the last 50 years or something now, he’s a right. He’s on the right He so here’s a very bad thing about him. He he got citizens united upheld that’s him. Okay Also, he’s the one who defeated DOMA Defeated who — DOMA the the the marriage equality. He’s the one who argued that case in the Supreme Court and won for gay rights right and we had dinner with him one time my wife and I and he was getting up and the Server male server was standing there when he stood up and he was already crying and he said can I hug you you you let me marry the person I love and I’m like See, that’s everything like here’s a guy who he did some stuff. I don’t agree with then He did this thing that here’s this man crying. He changed his life You know, we can’t just be throwing everyone out with the bathwater. I it’s just it life’s more complicated and that it’s more complex Here’s this dude. Who’s at one time? You know against your interest and one time is a hero for your interest and it’s just it is very compelling I think or it’s an interesting people can change Well, I don’t even think that what what you’re saying is so much that people can change cuz I do think people can change but I think it’s like Respecting Duality and respecting. — Yeah, it’s not black or white. The guy’s not good or evil in this one case in my opinion He was a saint in the other case. I think he’d dismantled part of the most important part of the government So it’s like I think you know reconcile that — it does depend on where your priority stand Yeah, you know it depends on what’s important to you and you know, and but that’s something that you have to grapple with Yeah, I know. That’s something that you and your own morality wherever comes from you have to figure out This I can’t cross this line this line. I’m I’m okay with if it means getting to this point. — Yeah well, I think I think the best example I can give is Obama was publicly and expressively against gay marriage He’s against gay marriage, he’s spoken out against reparations He’s had a horrible immigration policy. I also went to several events at the White House by Obama’s invitation that I enjoy. So you’re right there is some duality there. I was very Pro gay marriage. He was against it. I still ultimately loved him and Prayed he’d come around which he did and so See the pray you come around thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah You’re holding on for me. I wanna change gears a little bit One of your biggest obsessions is jay-z Please tell us why? I love Jay-Z too, I’m from New York — We all love HOV They throwing up the Roc sign in the back –a lot of motherfuckers saying they made HOV Okay, then In fact, that’s one of the times I defended you before we’re friends what happened I quoted that one time someone’s coming after you like “We made you” right you better shut the fuck up We want you to just play music. Alright, and then I wrote a lot of motherfuckers saying they made Hov Okay. So anyways, that’s one of them You know, A, I just liked his music and then the the documentary that was about him was it called? It wasn’t called black and white, but it was when he was retiring. He made the blue — The Black Album there was a documentary was fantastic and he went around in in and you kind of For me a lay person who doesn’t know how you guys make songs. He went to Kanye and that was back before Kanye was rapping and he just said what do you got? He’s like I got five songs. Alright, play them for me he’s like Okay
I want and he buys three songs Basically, and then he sat there and he sat there any sat there and he walked into the fucking booth now Maybe he was editing it. Maybe was bull. He didn’t smoke in the mirror He did a but he walked into the booth and laid down that song with those rhymes that are so complex and pay off verse later in the references and fucking Godfather references and Should have stayed in food and beverage and I’m like, how can a human’s mind? Listen to his song for 12 minutes walk into the booth and throw that down. That’s like Picasso that’s like I mean that’s like historically once in a fucking millenium. I mean I just was like this guy is something else. — That’s something I That’s not something I cannot do. I have done that before I have written in the booth Uh-huh, but that’s not what I do, right Like what I do is I write I sit there and write — I’m glad you’re doing what you do, right? I’m glad you do it because you your songs do the same thing for me, you know But I appreciate like when I look at jay-z doing that He’s not the only artist that does it but he’s the most famous and most proficient at it He talks about real things while he’s doing it, because A lot of people can listen to a beat and then going in the box, but it’s we don’t want to hear it you know, I mean, it’s mumble rap or something like that, — but the way you build up to taking vicodin pills to numb the way that they feel like there’s You’re doing a five-part essay. You had a thesis statement and then you led me to that point and I’m like Oh, he built me up to that right now. It’s the punchline I’m glad you noticed that because the way that I write is like Chappelle said he says he keeps a jar full of punchlines I’m like, that’s how that’s how I write, I think of where I’m trying to get to Yeah, and then the writing is how do I get to that? — Yes. Yes I’m going up a staircase when I’m listening to your stuff and then I get to the vantage point I’m like, oh, that’s all and now I got the whole thing. — Is it the same with writing films? Yeah, you know every or not every but uh many writers are different in that typically writers tend to of screenplays tend to be strong in one of the three acts or two of the three acts a Lot of people have hard times with endings and you see it movies You’re like more, how are they going to tie that and then how do we get here? my thing is I generally start with I know the beginning in the end and then The middles where I get to be surprised and find stuff in Improv and figure fun things out, you know So yeah, I kind of know similarly to you I know I’ll generally think of a ending to a movie I want to see and then Reverse-engineer it from there and think like what can I lay along the way that’ll pay off in that way? With it. What’s a project do you really want to write about like it’s in your mind. I don’t ever want to write again. I wrote Well, I wrote for like 12 years straight –I just saw you on your writers chair on Ellen The what — with the writing chair, the lazy boy chair. — Oh, yeah, that’s true I have written screenplays in that. Yeah, but you know, I am I wrote for 12 years pretty solidly. I always had something do Chips came out didn’t do well at the box office and I said I’m gonna take a break from writing and it has been the most luxurious two years of my last 15 years because as a writer Lawrence Kasdan who wrote Close encounter are rather Raiders of the Lost Ark, one of the most prolific and best writers of all time in movies He said writers are people who have agreed to do homework the rest of their lives and that’s exactly how it used to be like we were just on vacation in Michigan my wife and I and I was sitting on That beach and I was sitting on the beach there was nothing I had to do but prior to that everywhere, we were sitting even it was downtime like I gotta finish that thing that things do this point and I you know, I do think I’ll write again, but I’ve been really enjoying not writing for a couple years. I like not having homework Now you said when we came in you said you saw the Lamar Odom episode of People’s Party and you said you were drawn to it because of his addiction issues. Yes. You have famously had addiction issues Oh, yeah, — and you famously went sober. –Yeah, and How is sobriety? affecting your work How is it affecting the family life? Well, I wouldn’t have a family without sobriety first and foremost Bell would have never signed up for the old version of me she would’ve been like “you’re funny but not that funny” You know, it’s not only you know, and it’s common to say in AAA or 12-step programs like You come in to quit drinking but then what you stay for is why did you drink and how do I fix the foundation? That’s cracked so that I don’t have that desire you know that I’m not carrying around shame that I’m not carrying around resentments that I’m not doing all this stuff and that’s So much of what appeals to it about me that the quitting? Coke and everything and it almost 15 years ago, but the the personal journey of why I was even doing it to begin with continues for me if I could isolate like the reward of sobriety again just for me is When I was 12 years old, I woke up and it was game on it was fucking party time I was gonna meet up in there. We were gonna fucking walk through this field. We’re gonna go ride a dirt bike We were gonna get in a fight whatever everything was on fire I was thrilled to be on planet Earth and then I discovered getting fucked up Which was awesome for 10 years But that 12 year old fire that that that just passion to be alive it Totally had gone away and it was gone for a long time and I just thought if I could ever get back to the point Where when I walk out my door, I’m thrilled to go on an adventure with nothing in me. But oatmeal like that’s The goal and I can honestly say never about the last seven years like I’m on fire to be alive I’m on fire to go do stuff and just have fun and I don’t need anything get me pumped up for that You’re very productive these days. — It’s crazy I was talking to one of my friends and it’s like How do we go out in high school and party all night without any alcohol? It looks like now you have to pregame before you go anywhere like yeah It’s crazy that you once you start drinking or smoking or doing whatever you start relying on those things to give you your energy and your get up and go and you Already had that yeah. — Yeah, and again, I’m the most Pro drugs and alcohol sober person you’d meet like I Am very I don’t think anyone should leave planet earth without doing mushrooms Okay, I I hope no I hope my children do mushrooms when they get older? I hope they don’t do cocaine because that in my experience will make you not be allowed to do all the other things So I’m very Pro. I’m not judgemental a bit. I’m always interested in other addicts. I’m interested to hear You know I’m cynical because I’ve been going to meetings for 15 years and I’ve watched at this point at least 10,000 people try to get sober and I’ve seen a pattern that I’m not willing to deny and I know there’s certain Ingredients you kind of need to get long-lasting sobriety So someone like Lamar I have only observed from what I read in the news. I can relate to the dude That’s gotten lost in Nevada and is having a heart attack not like I I’ve been in a very, you know dark similar spot and I Genuinely, hope he finds the road to sustain sobriety We’re not and so I watch it with interest of like Do I think he’s got you know? Is he on the way — With this knowledge of these all these meetings that you’ve been to — Yes, so and again, I don’t claim that. This is the only approach again. There’s I don’t care I don’t have a fucking stock in twelve-step, right? But I am a little suspicious of the new solution to addiction being going on. Ayahuasca trip I just don’t think that you know, I for fourteen years of trauma is Erased by a four-hour experience in a hut in Peru the dude shitting his pants. Maybe it is I’m just a little Skeptical of it. — What do you do to cope now? Like without doing any drugs or anything like that like when you’re stressed and you want to smoke a blunt. What do you do instead? I work out I I’m into because I think really what is what the appeal of drugs was for me was a couple things once I do one line of coke my My my priorities are straight. All I got to do is get more coke. I don’t care what I got to do career-wise I don’t care how bad of a son I was or this or that I have a Singular objective and singular focus feels good. It is a relief to have singular focus So now I have a lot of hobbies that require singular focus I go to the motorcycle track a lot I’m going this weekend to Laguna Seca overalls I should have leather overalls made Oh, yes, you should — yeah, but you know when I’m doing that activity I can only afford to look at the next turn if I think about anything else I’m off the track and I’m on the way to the hospital. So I Enjoy singular focus in in in in shutting out all the other voices in my head the racket the hamster on the wheel. So I’m Attracted to things that require a hundred percent of my attention That’s so funny cuz you learned that in method acting like we did exercise what it’s like you have to do one I don’t know if it’s method I came it was an acting class and you had to do one thing that you had to do Repetitively that you couldn’t focus on anything else and so my thing was cutting carrots. You’re cutting carrot You’re focusing on cutting the carrot. So your mind is just on that — When your minds on that it can’t be Oh, there’s a camera there and I feel a little insecure Goes more natural. Yeah I have two more questions — good — and this has been wonderful. I thoroughly enjoyed me, too Um, not so much. The first was not so much a question as an observation. I noticed through your film work and the Films that you have control over you Always have your friends and family involved and there are certain directors who do that You look at a Spike Lee or you look at the Coen Brothers or you look at you know certain people that are always using The same cast of people but with you you’re putting like your brother your sister You know, why is that so important to you? — Well, there’s a couple things one is For me the the more I focus on the The process of making something vs the results of making something the happier I am so I want the process to be the party not the fuckin opening weekend because Because one thing is two years of my life The other thing is a Friday night So I’m not gonna sit back when I’m 90 and look at printouts of what my shit did when ratings that got I’m gonna be thinking about like Oh my god, my brother was on set. He thought he was gonna be a great actor and then he shit his pants You know that that stuff but and then and then it just from a practical standpoint I like to be able to write the script knowing who’s gonna play it cuz I know what they can do and I know how you know what their sweet spot is and it’s fun to like just drop someone in their sweet spot and I Think it’s a real advantage to just Understand what gears people have and be able to play to those strengths Beautiful man. I’m in the point in my career where I’m involving family more and so we’re doing this I know my son raps my daughter raps. My son doesn’t just rap He’d be mad if I said that — He’d be mad whatever you say — He makes music Um, you’re good friends with Tom Arnold. Seems like a great guy. — Uh-huh He has said that he has these tapes of Trump calling people the n-word on the apprentice So my question is is that maybe there’s a non-disclosure or some maybe you can’t release the tapes Can you bring me over his house? Can I hear the tapes? Okay, do you think if a if those tapes exist I personally have no information on that right if they exist and they were released. Do you think it does anything? No, no, I do not know yeah, do we like my phone is just– this guy said he’s gonna grab the twisties like Exactly. Once you win an election after saying you just grabbed their pussy III just think that you know there is this kind of repetitive my frustration what the left is just this like Reconfirming. We don’t like this guy. Yeah, we’re clear. We’ve been clear for three years. I got it don’t want three things I want to put this energy into all this talk go to your neighbor’s house and ask them to vote I agree with that the whole like he’s orange in his small hands the smoking gun. There’s a stream. You know me as smoke I mean all that stuff means nothing. He he’s a president Yeah, we have to deal with it and we have to deal with it efficiently mm-hm, and you know III agree that just sort of the sort of the meme war thing like the You know left camp meme, to all that stuff is fucking meaningless I have to say you know, I I think again, I don’t think it’s black or why I’m not like 90% on this but I am 55% We should not try to impeach this guy I’m like we’re gonna vote and I will think I do think as a as a Pragmatist. Knowing what our country is and know how it works. I don’t think it’s possible Yeah, well, it’s not I do think that to Try it and make sort of a symbolic impeachment like they did with Clinton. Yeah, I would totally be behind that I mean, yes So again, it’s like it one is almost a Kantian argument, which is you do the right thing because it’s the right thing So if this person has abused this office in a way that we are constitutionally empowered to check We have an obligation to do that. So regardless of the the ends we do the right means that’s one argument Yeah, it’s very valid. That’s the one I’m on the side of Yeah, and then the other argument is like what’s the end result of this? Well the end result is he’s not getting kicked out of office. The Senate is never going to vote in in that Way so we know immediately he won’t be out of office, So now you just look at the manpower the attention all that stuff I would rather all that attention and energy and passion being put into something that was gonna have a productive outcome, right? Maybe a candidate — A candidate in an infrastructure process a solution to the immigration issues You know a like take that Capital that intellectual capital and the resources and the passion and just let’s solve a few problems I think we’re a little Stuck on the Trump thing and it’s like we got a lot of other things that we could be Making better. We’re not gonna make this better for another 18 months. — I still want to hear them tapes though Tell your man, we gonna have a party like yeah, — This is me, this is you Know I got proof — Ladies and gentlemen. Dax Shepard — Thanks for having me.