Taking Down Conservative Lies About Socialism!

Taking Down Conservative Lies About Socialism!

Michael in Bangor Maine hey Michael what's on your mind Tom thanks for not saying Bangor you're welcome yeah a longtime listener to your show I am sort of your classic 18th century liberal I know there's a lot of confusion these days between 21st century liberals and eighteen but anyway I was listening intently to your conversation with the professor about fascism and one of the things that sort of disturbs me and I listen to progress a lot is that there's a conflation between people who are white in the United States as being fascist but then there is no conflation between socialism being just as totalitarian at least in terms of what's happened in historical times and I I just wish I could see a little bit more discussion instead of sort of mirroring or just focusing on white and racism which is obviously a problem I'm not demeaning it or at all or or playing it down diminishing it after there are other types of isms that are happening on the left in the show Michael any moment let me be very clear about something the the government of the Soviet Union has reinvented by Lenin and then Stalin was they call themselves socialists they call themselves communists I frankly don't think they were either one I don't think Marx would have recognized it it was a right-wing totalitarian government it used violence and the threat of violence against its own people in order to keep people in line that and and and you can send to it to a substantial extent that has also been true in a number of other countries that are quote socialist you could you can make that same charge against Castro in Cuba particularly in the early days and you can make that same charge and I think Cuba's actually you know transforming itself into more of a democratic socialist country but you know it's a whole other conversation and and and ago Chavez and Maduro and Venezuela nobody literally nobody mmm not one single democratic politician in the United States even so-called far left Bernie Sanders who's not as far left as Franklin Roosevelt who proposed that housing and a job should be considered a right in the United States just like education and health care you want all four of those things to be considered rights that would be provided by the government lacking you know the ability of the capitalism to provide those things even Bernie doesn't go that far there is not a single Democratic politician in America who is advocating the kind of socialism and communism that we saw back then democratic socialism is what you have in Canada democratic socialism is what you have in all of the European countries that's what they call it there and that is where you have a strong social safety net where the where the government provides health care at the very least and education essentially for free obviously nothing's for free we all pay for it with our taxes but provides it at a lower cost than the so-called free market would than capitalism would because there's nobody skimming money off the top and and and also encourages competition and capitalism and that that is what you know the Democrats are proposing so it seems to me Michael that you're bringing up something that's a complete straw man argument no I'm not trying to bring up a straw man argument because the problem is not it's not all not I disagree with you but maybe one Democrat who has ever said that they want the United States to be like the Soviet Union well why would they say that that would be self-defeating well they would say that if they believe that you're asserting that there are Democrats who want the United States to be like the Soviet Union or Cuba I'm saying name one okay Jill Stein Jill Stein is not a Democrat she's the head of the Green Party well but that's not my point my point is is that there are people who are and she's not elected she's never been elected anything I understand but there are people on the Left who are and I don't think Jill Stein is calling for America to be like the Soviet Union I you know I I heard her saying that well you know I've heard I'm not here to defend Jill Stein but I'm saying Michael that there realize that the message that you're getting on right-wing hate radio and on fox news I and and out of trumps mouth that the message you're getting is the Democrats want to embrace a soviet-style state and you're getting that from the Koch brothers from Freedom Works around you know health care and in fact that was the message when they when they were when they were you know pumping the Tea Party back in the day and paying you know having these $300,000 buses take you know poor confused you know boomers around to say get your government hand hands off my damn Medicare you know they were they were basically saying this is Soviet style socialism and it's a lie it's just a simple lie there are no Democrats who are proposing anything even remotely close to Soviet style socialism you know in their most in their most radical proposals they're proposing things that Canada already has which is you know education that you can that you can easily pay for and health care that's covered you know we're we're all in a giant pool for with health care so it can be provided at a low cost to high quality you can do that with capitalism too if you have faith in the system no you can't and and and I would I would point out you know the the crimes a big farmer the crimes of the insurance industry the fact that you've got one insurance company and added health care that has the to last two CEOs both took over a billion dollars out of that company and every penny of that was was United Healthcare saying to somebody again it could have been you Michael no you can't have you know that new expensive drug to cure your Hep C or no you can't have that operation because you know we don't want to pay for it because you had a pre-existing condition ur because you didn't fill out your forms right you and I both know that capitalism when it's applied to things that are the public good tends to basically extract money from the public which is what capitalism does I mean that's this job and it's fine if it's making blue jeans or computers I'm all in favor of that right but if it has to do with the public good things like health care things like education over and over and over again when you turn those things over to capitalist systems what you end up is is people being ripped off well I this is what the kind of discussion that I would like to see more people having I disagree with you I think that the redistribution of wealth which was which is what is at the basis of everything that the demo rats are doing whatever you want to call socialism are not when you have the markets regulated without any notion of free market that you're going to redistribute who is making the decisions to redistribute Michael there's no such thing as a free market and number one and number two you're talking about redistributing income there's a pure free market so there is as much a free market as you can try to make without having the excesses they since Reaganism read that just says we changed from well hang on a second here that you've raised two things – since we changed from FDR ISM to reaganism from from an economic policy promoted by John Maynard Keynes to an economic policy promoted by Milton Friedman what we have seen since Reagan became president is the transfer of something on the order of six or seven trillion dollars of wealth out of the pockets of the middle class and into the pockets of the top 1% that is that is absolutely undisputable so if you want to talk about transfer of wealth it's it's going the wrong way from my point of view and you know I forget what the other point I was gonna leave it but the reason for that the reason for that is not capitalism as much as what we have the reason for the reason for that is that capitalists they rigged the tax structure by buying politicians well that's always going to happen whether you're in the communism or no that's this is always this is my second point Michael you would not want to go to a football game that did not have referees enforcing the rules you yeah you would it would not be interesting it would not be fair and in in in capitalism we have to have you know capitalism only functions well when there is competition and when Reagan started deregulating capitalism in the United States what he basically did away with his competition you've got four or five companies who own the airline industry who own the the the internet service provider industry who owned the television industry who own the radio industry who own the agriculture industry I mean name and interest is v of Transportation name and industry that's not dominated by at the most five companies that is anti-competitive it's making it almost impossible for small and medium-sized businesses to grow and prosper and when they do the business plan now is get to the point where you can be bought out quickly before one of these big companies squashes you like a bug that is anti competitive regulation thing is destroying capitalism no wait a second there's a difference between easing regulatory stuff and enforcing the antitrust laws which is something we don't I trust laws our regulation I didn't say that some regulation isn't cause you know in 1982 Reagan Reagan officially stopped enforcing the antitrust laws and he called that deregulation and what did we get out of that we got an exploded the M&A the mergers and acquisition mania that happens throughout the throughout the throughout the the the Reagan administration right now there are 50 percent fewer public companies in the United States 50% fewer publicly publicly traded companies than there were in 1980 why is that because of consolidation because of Reagan's deregulation and that's not good for capitalism Michael the bottom line is I agree with you about putting together as much competition free market as we can regulated by good common sense I know it's regulated by government report you can't have capitalism without government creating the framework just like you can't have a football game without the NFL saying here's the rules well I understand but there are Democrats to Tom the problem isn't that you're not identifying problems the problem from my point of view is that it's always the right that's a problem it's not the corporatist in like Hillary Clinton if you went after her like you went after the people on the right we might have some semblance of commonality there don't there are corporatist in Michael III give you there are corporatists in both parties but your party the Republican Party is entirely corporatist and the Democratic Party is only about corporate that's all right well outside of outside well even Jason Amash I mean he or Justin Amash he's not he's a libertarian okay the Republican Party yeah okay but my point is that that you know corporatism yes is destroying the United States and is destroying capitalism and and and is rewriting the rules and and a lot of it can be traced back to the Supreme Court's 1976 buckley versus vallejo decision that that formed the basis of citizens united and that's something where perhaps you and i agree but you know we when we when we get in these arguments about you know regulation deregulation to start using this kind of Larry I think that we just missed the point

30 thoughts on “Taking Down Conservative Lies About Socialism!

  1. C'mon guys. ..more than 40% of the population receives some sort of MONTHLY assistance from a government agency, to subsist….and there is no country practicing more reverse socialism with the rich and corporations, providing juicy programs and contracts with tax money, as well as delicious tax cuts! — is that capitalism?…..remember the bail outs?? wake up people!

  2. I appreciate this caller and the way Thom corrected his logical errors. Hopefully, this resource will assist us all in debunking these common right wing talking points.

  3. I don't understand why not. I can't go stake out a plot of land and build a house there on my own. I HAVE to buy into the capitalist system…which, I don't want to…I want to be on my own…so how is that not fascist…that I HAVE to be part of that system…that I hate…?

  4. "Let's solve the problems of corporatism by implementing the very thing that created it. More deregulation!" – Every Libertarians/Classical liberal.

    Like dogs chasing their own tails.

  5. There is a difference big between Democratic Socialism and Social Democracy, its very unfortunate that the names are so similar because Social Democracy is welfare CAPITALISM. And its more common in Europe than Democratic Socialism that focuses on workers having more of a say in the workplace, which is more in line with the definition of socialism.

    PLEASE stop equating them!

  6. Thank you, Thom. You are far to my right and, as usual, I disagree with your version of history, but I appreciate this.

  7. Its obvious that republicans and centrist Democratic voters still don't understand what our political reality is. I'm worried its so bad that it would be years if ever for them to figure it out.

  8. Bernie Sanders wants to ban for profit education. That is the tenth plank of the communist manifesto.
    Most candidates want to ban for profit healthcare.
    Democrats don’t understand that “rights” are not things government gives. Rights are things government cannot take away. When you say healthcare is a right—you are saying we have a right to a portion of a healthcare professional’s life.

  9. the caller is wrong, proven wrong, provided correct facts, but still denies its true

  10. 1:00 1)that wasnt true socialism, 2) we've never had the technology that exists today

  11. Obamacare extended insurance to many. It killed the practice of medicine by demanding we go from Electrobic Medical Records to EMR that were hundreds of thousand of dollars for the bargain basement version. Now Patient Portals where the doctor has to answer every question. We were supposed to hit a counter and have to enter it for every narcotic we prescribed. Thank gawd they got rid ot that. We had to change the Medical Codes for diagnosis and billing.
    This is the sound of doctors closing their practice. No one can afford to open new private practices.

  12. It's all because of religion. The conservatives think that we are going to take their religion from them.

  13. FDR's Second Bill of Rights !
    That was a real man, a real leader, Franklin Roosevelt.
    A real man has to suffer to appreciate the needs of the working people. Trump has never suffered, for even a minute.

  14. If you don't vote for Bernie, you are ignoring the only adult running, or who ran in 2016. The only real adult, who is not an egomaniac.

  15. Taking down lies about socialism from Thom Hartmann.

    1:30 "the soviet union was far right" Thom do you know what right wing means? right wing is capitalist economics, left wing is non-capitalist economics. the soviet union was left wing and state socialist and on a local level was a democracy. also, Cuba was and is a fully democratic and Socialist nation it always has been since the revolution and hopefully will continue to always be.

    2:00 Hugo Chavez was elected into power, Maduro was also elected into power. Venezuela functions as a social democracy despite claims that it has a socialist economy. please, educate yourself before you talk about things, you look like a fool.

    3:30 you accusing him of strawmanning when you clearly perpetuated the typical right wing strawmen of the USSR and it's allies is hilariously sad.

    6:00 why? why do you support exploitation at all? if you work in a factory and produce 30 dollars worth of value, you should be paid 30 dollars an hour not 10. capitalists have no right to that 20 extra dollars you produced and a new economic system which allows you to reap the full gains of your work needs to be implemented.

    this is upsetting since i enjoy your videos alot, but your knowledge of socialism and it's history is lacking.

  16. The soviet union was socialist. Which is why there is still so much misinformation, gatekeeping and lies circulating about it, courtesy of the US gov. Because they are still afraid. Authoritarian socialism is socialism. If anything it's incredibly cowardly to just brush of all existing socialist projects as "not real socialism" instead of taking the time to understand why they did the things they did, the good things they accomplished and the mistakes they made. But what else can you expect from americans. They think you can just snap your fingers and voila, perfect workers utopia. You don't have to work for it, you don't have to build it. It must be handed to you. That's capitalist thinking.

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