-You heard you might
have some competition in the podcast world. It was reported that someone
overheard Rudy Giuliani at a restaurant —
this is real — saying that he might do his own
impeachment podcast. [ Laughter ] Would that be something that
you’d be very happy about? -[ Laughs ] Is there, like, a crossover
episode we could put together? It’s funny you say “overheard.” All these stories about Giuliani
that keep coming out, he’s accidentally
texting somebody or he’s overheard saying
something at a restaurant. -Yeah.
-Also, like, there’s — He can’t keep a low profile.
Like, he can — He walks in a room,
he can only be Rudy Giuliani. -Yeah.
[ Laughter ] -Like, there’s no — -Not gonna confuse him
with somebody else, huh? -No, exactly.
You mentioned the polarization, which obviously is a real issue.
Do you — And I know you’re, you know,
a historian with all this. When do you see —
what caused this cleaving off of the two parties to the place
where, basically, you can’t get them
to agree on a single thing? Where do you think that started?
-It’s been a long-term thing. I really think
it’s the last generation or so, it’s the change in media. It’s the nationalization
of media, and I think with
the nationalization of media, cable news, the Internet, social
media, everybody on the country, kind of looking
at the same thing, at the same time,
it’s nationalized politics. You know, when I grew up,
I grew up in Massachusetts, and the biggest name in
Massachusetts was Tip O’Neill. Tip O’Neill was this
curmudgeonly old Speaker of the House,
and he had a famous saying. I think
it was the title of his book. “All Politics is Local.” And everybody said, “That’s what
politics is — it’s local. It’s the neighbors,
it’s the backyard.” All politics is national now.
-Yeah. -It’s no longer local.
And what that means is, I think, in the old days,
there was sort of regional and ideological
diversity in the parties. I remember growing up —
it’s not that long ago. New England — you had liberal
Republics in New England. You had conservative Republicans
in the Midwest. Liberal Democrats in the North. Conservative Democrats
in the South. It’s all sorted out. If you’re on the liberal side,
you’re a Democrat. If you’re on the conservative
side, you’re a Republican. The demographic fault lines,
they’re just deep, they’re stark, and I don’t see
it changing any time soon. -You did try to put this
knowledge to use before you got into the news game
as a game-show contestant. [ Laughter ]
-Yeah, I did, yeah. So, this is what?
What chapter of your life are you trying to make it
as a game-show contestant? -This was college graduation.
-Okay. -And I didn’t have a job
coming out of college. And I had a couple roommates
who were in film/television. They were from Boston.
They wanted to move out to L.A. They wanted to make it
in movies, and I had nothing better to do,
so, I said, “I’ll go with you. I’ll go with you
for a few months. I’ll see what
I can do out there.” I had no plan.
And my plan, as soon as I got there was, I’d always
loved game shows as a kid. -USA Network used to run like
10 in a row in the afternoon, and I’d sit there
and watch them all. So, I was like, “You know what? I’m in the place
where they do these game shows. I’m going to get on one, I’m
gonna win, you know, $30,000.” -Sure.
-And I’m set for the year. And then I can figure out,
you know — -It’s a great plan, yeah.
-The closest I came — This 2001, 2002.
I made it through. I thought I was gonna get on the
show “Win Ben Stein’s Money.” -Sure, of course.
Comedy Central, right? -And the show got cancelled.
-Oh, no. -So that was —
[ Laughter ] -So, then you were like,
“I got to get a real job.” -And I came home, yeah. -Hey, thanks so much
for being here. It’s always such a joy to watch.
Your podcast is great. Steve Kornacki, everybody.