Sam Vaknin: the TRUE toxicity of social media revealed

Sam Vaknin: the TRUE toxicity of social media revealed



the most popular accounts on Instagram have zero content so they there are teenager usually girls who eat bananas zero content and they have 16 million followers so we see I mean that's absolute proof here's the problem signaling in invariably leads in studies that we had invariably leads to performance anxiety in other words signaling enhances anxiety invariably there is no situation that signaling reduces anxiety or has no connection to anxiety it always increases anxiety it increases anxiety of course because you have to maintain not only prospective success but retrospective success let me try to explain it in common terms if your last post had 2,000 likes in your next post has thousand likes you failed so you are constantly competing against yourself actually not only against others and not only against the market but against yourself you have to exceed yourself all the time this creates enormous performance anxiety actually we discovered that 41% of freshmen who were on social media reported extreme anxiety compared to 18% of freshmen in 1985 so the number of freshmen who reported extreme anxiety tripled over this period of time and all of them are on social media and it was the only component that changed between the two dates so social media did this we can safely borrow techniques and methodologies from epidemiology and regard social media is an epidemic as we studying Ebola or similar things we can study social media if we do that we discover some amazing new insights and one of the most important new insights is what we call in epidemiology self-limitation all viruses spread very fast and then stop why didn't the black the black they've killed all the population of Europe white stop at half the population why didn't I kill all of us I mean why why epidemic stop because viruses stop and why do viruses stop because they want to propagate they want to continue to survive if there were virus who would who would have killed all the population the virus would have died as well right so we call this self-limiting okay if social media are like viruses and if we can use technologies from I mean then it means that we are coming right now to a stage of self-limiting it means that the growth coefficient the growth of social media will now stop and and we will then the world will then be divided to two groups the group of people who do not use social media and the group of people who use social media and they are not geographical groups and they are not socio-economic groups and there so we can't say for example the rich world will use social media but not India and China we cannot say rich people will use social media but not poor people we cannot say highly educated people will use social media we can say this because the profile of social media users about two billion by now it's totally universal man is nothing distinguishing no distinguishing facet the only thing that will distinguish these two groups absolutely the only thing is not gender not income not education nothing only are you using social media or not this is a revolutionary thought because social media has a massive effect on psychology in other words there will be one group of people about two billion with one type of human psychology in another group of people of about five billion with a totally different type of human psychology and this is the first time I think that there there is such a massive reengineering of human psychology in between groups which count in will in the billions so this is another way of looking at it I would like to also I'm going to talk a lot and you can I did me out of course I wouldn't if I were you I would did the whole thing say bloody killer just lost its also quit so one thing I would like to I think one thing that's neglected when we consider social media is by whom social media was created consider for example the fashion industry the fashion industry was created by homosexual men homosexual men who had a liking to boys they created an ideal female figure which was boy like yes which was into this very day this is the ideal female figures figure females women all over the world makes a mistake it's utter mistake by we have numerous studies that show that it's a mistake it's wrong it's not true women think that men like thin anorectic slim women because that's what the fashion magazines are telling them but the fashion magazines are telling them that because most of the founders of the fashion houses and fashion magazines were homosexual men and our interest there any interested in how they make the clothes they want yeah but but the ideal female foam is actually male young male teenage male so that I can Georgian eyes when we write a dress in women adopted this and they believe this is what men want but actually we have numerous studies that showed that men prefer fuller women curvaceous women women with love lentils and so on and women refused to accept the studies this is not true women like I mean men like why am I telling you this because social media was created by a very well defined profile it was a all social media were invented by men there was not a single woman involved all social media were invented by schizoid people who recluse is people Hermits people who were socially in socially napped all social media were in were invented by nerds most of these men later on when we read biographies and so on we realized that they were asexual or with very low sexual activity we saw the profile of the men who invented social media and we are talking about all these men it is very very very narrowly defined they created social media in their own image of course since they were a sexual a social schizoid white men they created a tool which was geared towards a sexual a social skills with white men and then what happened to this tool to their utter surprise for example you can read Zuckerberg articles answer me to the utter shock it took off and it started to cater to black men and black women and very sexual people and asexual people and social people it started to cater to population groups which were totally out of sync with the nature and character of the of the technology right and I think we are we're witnessing this conflict the technology is designed for highly specific psychological profile and yet it is being used abused and misused by other psychological profile and this creates dissonance the technology is this one his inbuilt dissonance and I think we are feeling this dissonance a lot we know that exposure to social medias and to know precisely exposure to screen time but not all screen time but exposure to screen time and in social media we know that it tends to encourage depression anxiety suicidal zone some numbers anxiety anxiety among teens increased by 20% since 2007 17% of all things with anxiety are today with severe anxiety life-threatening anxiety 17% compared to 3 about 10 years ago we know that screen time decreases happiness decreases life satisfaction everything I'm mentioning is a study of heart rate or studies moderator so decreases happiness life satisfaction and decreases self-esteem we know that we know that it increases enhances anxiety and depression the Royal Society of Public Health published a study in June this year June 2018 which found out that sixty three sixty three percent of all Instagram users are unhappy now we don't know whether unhappy people gravitate to Instagram or where the Instagram made them unhappy yeah but since we have similar statistics or other social media it would stand to reason that it's the platform that made them unhappy run the other way we know that anxiety and depression among the young as a young between 15 and 24 increased by 70% over the last thirty years that's a huge it's which double simply double and we know that since 2010 teen suicide climbed by 31% so teen suicide is rampant and today it is the first time in human history that the leading cause of death among teens up to the age of 24 it's suicide not any disease or not even accidents used to be accidents today suicide that's the leading cause of death and this is intimately connected to social media so it raises the question why why is that well I mentioned before that social media is is conditioning tool not an addictive tool but a conditioning tool and that it uses a relative positioning but what are the emotions that are attached to relative positioning when the first one is envy of course so social media are constructed around envy pathological Envy they are purveyors of pathological Envy in amplifiers of pathological ending and they quantify via various ranking algorithms they quantify envy with likes with retweets with so they quantify envy and then they leverage Envy to to motivate you in other words they use Envy to cause you to adopt some course of action so they weaponize env they but not only not on the env but I think even more so aggression of course pathological envy is a form of aggression people confuse people confuse jealousy with envy and here's the difference jealousy is when I look at you and I say I want to be Richard Grennan so I will study hard I will buy the right glasses and and so on developed muscles so it will motivate me to positive action jealousy is constructive it motivates me to act but in a positive way to emulate you but the logical envy means that I regard you as a source of frustration that I can't be like you so I would seek to destroy yes ought to make you me for instance by forcing you to wear white shirts which you will never do so at illogical Envy is a form of aggression and when we look at social media we see this all social media encourage aggression via their algorithms in via the way they foster interactions so they encourage for example peer aggression they encourage bullying they encourage mobbing gang stalking they encourage black humour they encourage brutal brutal honesty and so on so forth you could say what you've been encouraged it's an empty space I mean you can put in this empty space you can put brutal honesty or you can put compassion it's not like they are forcing you it's your choice how to abuse this empty blank space well of course it's not true yeah it's not true because the these platforms have been designed to condition or as as the founders and constructors of this platform now our testing they were conditioned to to become addictive but it's wrong it's not addiction nevermind we know what they try to say these platforms encourage repeat use repeat compulsive use and now we know from psychology that only these kind of emotions a raishin envy hatred only these kind of emotions encourage repeated use in repeated so there is no way that they have designed these platforms without being aware that they must leverage these emotions to create addiction you're saying that in order to guarantee that there will be eyeballs on the screen for longer and more eyeballs on the screen they've deliberately fostered negative emotions in that yes anger there was the other way Envy yes resentment yes and they cannot come out and say you're wrong we similarly encourage love because always psychological studies show that love does not motivate a desert create or motivate repeat usage repeat action repeat does not foster addiction we have forms of love which are addictive but then we are talking stalking there are two maniacs talking infatuation these are pathological States so pathologies these platforms were designed with pathology in mind it's not what I am saying some of the founders of Facebook and the main engineer of Facebook in the first few years our now have now gone public and admitted that they have built addiction into the platform and how do we do that the only way to build addiction into the platform is to foster an gender and enhance exactly these emotions there is no other way yes you can't encourage volunteerism or love and expect repeat usage simply there's no studies that support this so it's no wonder that these platforms ended up being platforms for hate speech for fake news for bullying cyberbullying for no wonder at all they were built for this yes they were absolutely built for this consider for example twitter twitter twitter limited the number of characters until recently 140 now they increase to 260 other 140 what is what we know is that aggressive speech acts a much shorter that I'm serious completely there are psychological studies from the 60s 70s Princeton studies and so on that have demonstrated that aggressive speech acts are much shorter than then non-aggressive it makes sense if I'm going to have road rage I'm gonna say fuck you I'm not gonna say less than I'm very disappointed with the way that you don't exactly yes I mean exactly and we tend and we tend we tend to send love letters yes I never heard for example of a road rage little yeah yeah and if you would say I love you yeah the other party would be very disappointed or taken aback that's all you have to say it could be passive-aggressive as I said we're so short so yes this is totally no but but even if you say I love you in a minute the other party would usually say that's all he has to say I mean yeah yeah what's wrong with this guy right it's a I mean that's it love is effusive compassion empathy they're effusive in order to engulf in order to accept in order to make the glow you know in order to create these positive emotions you need to work hard yes and you need to be very verbose yes however in order to injure you or attack you or frighten you or terrorize you or whatever usually two three words suffice so we know from the starting in the 60s and well into the 80s which is the period that this was studied we know that aggressive speech acts are much shorter then so why why 140 by the way what was the technological need 440 why not 1400 I mean what's it what was the problem server space what exactly limited well I mean if your wife it's a and it I think you are it's a the the inference it's horrendous they deliberately foster angry I question it's again it's not what I'm saying I encourage you actually in plugged in to find the latest interview with the chief engineer of Facebook ex former chief engineer with the founder former chief engineer and he says we built it for addiction and we built it with these features with negative features and he said I regret it I feel horrible I regret what I've done and now a PBS came up with two programs about Facebook which actually claimed that it's an extremely extremely sinister platform and it is extremely sinister platform I am saying that it's extremely sinister because of the way it's designed and the algorithms behind it and I'm saying this from the point of view of psychology clinical psychology not of course you can make use of these platforms in numerous ways but you're not encouraged to you-ward it free may I can give you a knife and with a wink wink and a nod nod I can tell you if you stab Richard I'll give you four thousand pounds and you know I can I'm good at I can do that or I can give you a knife and say no if you if you cut the if you cut the bread for me I'll be very grateful I mean depends how you're motivated I many people would stab Richard it's the the instrument of the tool is only as good as what you are rewarded for the rewards incentive systems and so on usually determined usage usually determine usage I think if there was no fear of using knives on people many more people would use knives on pick on people because we have a negative incentive for using knives on people we don't use them on people so this negative incentive is called prison simple take it away take that away and trust me there will be an epidemic of people stabbing people so incentives both negative and positive regulate regulate behavior and to a very large extent by the way regulate emotions which it would explain why anxiety depression and so on so for because if you're exposed to uh turley negative territory where negative messaging is rewarded when negativity rules when the captivity is retreated and liked etc etcetera so obviously it will poison you it's a toxic environment and you're poisoned simply as surely as with with arsenic in your food you're poisoned and your mind begins to change neuroplasticity guarantees that your mind begins to change first of all you'll be in to defend against this toxicity and one way to defend is to withdraw so many people withdraw I believe social media is the most an a social invention of ever like ever it encouraged more a social behavior than anything before or after in my view social media created an unprecedented wave of withdrawal and atomization that's a reaction to negativity and so on and on the other hand those who have aggressive tendencies and so on would find social media an ideal turf so they gravitate toward social media of course enhance the toxicity it's a self-perpetuating feedback loop a filter which a negative filter which amplifies and attracts and connects like-minded aggressive dangerous little the crazy people this simplification is known as network effect of course all these platforms social media were designed as networks now you can say wait a minute what is guys saying I mean he that's a very trite statement of course it's a network social media network why we have numerous ways of organizing social interactions why did social media tools networks why didn't they choose hierarchy why didn't you choose curated conversations with editors moderators before social media came online we had other ways of interacting online in the cyber world which had nothing to do with networks now right from the forums a huge front forums for example I had a forum where 250,000 members I had a forum for 10 years sorry five years it had 250,000 members and it had moderators we had 30 or 40 moderators so it was cute what we call curated conversation everyone could say anything it was super active everyone was happy and satisfied it's Paul numerous other forums it said what was wrong with this model in other words our natural assumption or instinctive assumption we were brainwashed we were brainwashed by social media to believe that the only way to run social media is with a network model right it's not true yeah this model was selected on purpose because it's the only model that is what we call network effects now network effects is a leads back to epidemiology network effects are an epidemic simply epidemic infection intellectual and emotional and psychological infection of out of people by other people exactly as you would spread the black death or Ebola you spread your social media social media could have selected as I said hierarchical model curated model in any of twenty or thirty existing models for online interaction yet they chose none of them they chose the only model which is self-propagating self-replicating invades your DNA your psychological dealing alters your brain via neuroplasticity conditions you and later gets you addicted the only model that does this is network because of network effects so this created shared psychosis many cases mass hysteria on many cases counts including death counts including teenage death counts and it created new types of role models such as school shooters so network effects theoretically can be leveraged for good example would be Wikipedia can be later but even Wikipedia for example started as a network and gave up on the model why did it give up on the model because it became a cesspool of aggression cesspool of aggression misinformation slander libel so at some point we were an additive so we could be different daily I was I was one of the hundred founders even we were 100 100 people who found in Wikipedia it was called nupedia anytime nupedia and then jimmy wales be true throw away all of us and took over and made it wikipedia and jimmy wales converting Wikipedia when it started with nupedia and it was curated each one of us has a hidden editor I wrote the entry for narcissism I had an editor who was the professor of psychology and so on was curated we still created content but jimmy ways came and said no I'm converting Wikipedia to a social network and we committee became Facebook anyone could edit anyone could interact with anyone I mean there was no end it was spreading Network effects and so on and within 10 years it became an artist sewage cesspool attacks nutcases slander libel hatred hate speech and horrible I had a public altercation with the Jimmy Wales on on numerous magazines all over the world Brazil Russia you name it when finally I don't know if it's owing to me I suspect not only because of me but I was the only one who sued him in court so finally Jimmy Wales retreated and changed Wikipedia back to nupedia and today Wikipedia is actually curated it's not a network but look what happened the minute it was it became curated the number of active editors dropped from 3 million to 70,000 people are not interested people want the aggression yes they wanna towers they want they the chaos they one do so realizing human nature you are faced with two options either you surf the wave you ride the wave or you put put up dams and you try to be too active and try to channel this energy or whatever Facebook Twitter all these networks are surfing the wave they know it's a dangerous wave they know people are drowning they read all the statistics of increased suicide rate depression anxiety they know absolutely everything they have designed maliciously malevolently and possibly criminally I don't know they have designed their algorithms and their networks exactly to cater to human pathology in its most extreme forms and they have sown the wind I am Not sure they were not ripped the storm I think it's coming so the you said that it's a self-limiting virus do you think you know like the documentary are making were plugged in and we can see that other people feel the same way do you think this is all part of that where people are saying okay enough is enough and then you said that there will be two groups one group will continue the other group will no longer use social media and then I think you said there psychologies will can will be molded differently so you think that will actually be the the social media users if if they keep going from the 10 or 15 years there'll be more pathologize doors yeah okay I think it's the first time in human history that's why I said it's a revolutionary statement it's the first time in human history we have created the technology that succeeded to pathologize two billion people this stupid is 2 billion people most of them not all of them it's too late to save them they are conditioned and addicted and maybe 1 billion of them one and a half billion of them 1.2 billion of no way to predict but some portion of them will remain on social media forever and their pathologies will will increase and that we can become sicker more anxious more depressed more suicidal more in need of of therapy more I mean less functional etc etcetera more atomized more more schism more more everything and this group of people will be like an island they would leave on social media it's like these famous multiplayer games you know they would live in social media become their world they will swap the delusional fantasy world of social media for reality and they will lose the reality test which is the definition of psychosis in psychology but this will be one group and the rest of humanity there has never been a case in human history of a group that big going sick mentally sick never been a case may be with the exception of Nazi Germany maybe but there's never been such a case so we don't know and I cannot predict what it would mean so to be clear I think what I'm hearing you say is that people have quite literally been driven crazy dangerously crazy by the social media usage and that it was designed to do that to indict them to the social media it was designed to to condition them and to some extent ridiculous more conditioning but designed to condition them once they got conditioned they reacted like any conditioned or addict maybe developed depression and anxiety yeah however when you develop depression anxiety in reality reality has the capacity to cure you to heal via the what we call the reality test reality keeps sending you messages that intrude on your depression and anxiety so for example a beautiful girl smiles at you you're promoted at work I mean something happens I mean gradually and this is how we overcome grief grief for example time time heals everything what do you do if you are i if your firewalls from reality and you live in a toxic environment that gets increasingly more toxic where you expose only to toxic messages and where you are engage in a toxic activity of social ranking which is made public in order to shame you and motivate you to further go into the toxicity it's a self-perpetuating loop you have no countervailing influences and so it becomes what we would define a psychotic disorder I mean it's a psychotic world it's a bubble so it's the first time it's happening in human this you have no way to predict what would such a billion people do because they're spread everywhere and they're men and women and they are of all age groups and they are all socio-economic strata and all education levels I mean it's not deaths there are limited they are more or less like seeds and in this sense their epidemic when you when there's AIDS you have AIDS in San Francisco Paris Eurovision Africa River it's in China it's in distance I'm comparing it to a virus it's a group of sick people who are exposed to a virus known as social media and now they have sickness every virus is self-limiting this documentary is a manifestation of self limitation but we have other phenomena which are even more impressive than this documentary for example the fact that about 20% of all social media users pull out of social media yes disconnect closed their account or inactive accounts and even get rid of their smartphones yes it's more extreme but there are people who are doing this a get rid of sponsor there is a new phenomena of retreats where you cannot cannot go with your digital devices that's right there's a new phenomenon of jammers so that you a new enters cinema or ballet or opera whatever your smartphone is disabled automatically so there are many signs of revolt and rebellion against the status quo and that's why I'm not saying that all 2 billion users of social media will be pathologized to the end but a billion probably well yeah that's a gigantic number it's what we call in physics phase transition it's such a big number that it must have you know a universal all pervasive extensive effect on the totality of humanity what this effect will be is anyone's gifts even the pathology is not well understood even the e we don't really understand what is the pathology there's a new new diagnosis diagnosis in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual edition 5 2013 there's a new diagnosis internet addiction ok it's new but I don't think it captures nothing it doesn't capture sociological aspects cultural I mean none of this how for example will we the healthy people how I can accommodate these people what what is the fair someone is a therapist how would II if someone comes and says listen I'm very depressed there's among the time on social media what tools do I have to cope with it how what if a group of these people sue for disability benefits yeah I condition gauge from social media I'm on social media ten hours a day I try account I mean it opens all kinds of very interesting questions political economical legislative therapeutic I mean this is a group of sick people as we had to cope with the outcomes of AIDS and the outcomes of the influenza of 1918 and as we have to cope with previous epidemics we will have to cope with this any at the differences that the social media epidemic is much more reminiscent of zombie movies than it is of anything else as if you have black death you die if ever influenced I in 1918 you also die if you have AIDS until certain point you died and after that you lived so it was these are situations we are familiar with but social media addicts are much more like zombies their psychology is altered to the point that some of us would have difficulty relating to them even via empathy we will have difficulty relating it reminds me that there are groups of people who live inside multi multiplayer games they absolutely live there this these games have money of their own you can buy all kinds of merchandising goods and so on and so forth and so when you talk to these people and I did when you talk to these people they try very much to pretend that they're in reality but they're not absolutely not they live much more they're inside the computer than outside the computer some how would we relate to these people we don't even have the the common background is that possibly a way of explaining the difficulty that people are having now relating to each other because they lost the ability to relate outside of I think that as I said before I think that social media is the most a social or even anti-social invention ever it atomized pulverized rendered the social fabric completely by now completely because it started with six million years but no we're talking two billion the effect is global and total so by now I think the effects of social media have been disastrous for example teens prefer to interact with other teens exclusively via social media the number of face-to-face interactions among teens dropped by 70% seven zero not seven seven zero in the last ten years the number of the number the amount of dating dating teenagers dropped by 63% the amount of sexual encounters blowjobs you name it dropped by 50% in other words teenagers have moved exclusively to to social media they no longer interact with each other except via social media there are numerous documented observations in cases of teenagers communicating via social media sitting next to each other oh yes yeah sitting next to each other we have we have documented observations and studies of teenagers on for example trips sitting next to each other but communicating via social media and not talking to each other not something from a sci-fi dystopian movie is net people just set that twitching and flaking their thumbs that of course this is effect on sex yes and in due time reproduction family formation indeed family formation dropped to an all-time low less than one-third of people under the age of 24 consider having a family more than one-third of people under the age of 24 are homosexuals and so on nothing against homosexuals let me be utterly clear so sexual preference as I respect and I have no problem with whatsoever I'm not a fucking anyway shape or form but homosexuality reflects a basic disconnect because we all that the historical figures for homosexuality we know that they were within a certain range and it is inconceivable that a sexual orientation or sexual preference will triple within less than six years what do you think has caused that and it specifically amongst the young isn't that right yes they social media you think is cool yes I think one of the reasons is social media it's much more comfortable to interact with your own gender if you are not face to face it's it's social media enhances like mind what we call bubbles enhances like-minded people so for example politics social media you will gravitate in social media to people who think like you agree with you you will read only news stories that agree with you you will never read anything that disagrees with you one challenge feeds you that social media feeds back what that which it knows you're gonna look at it is called bubble so there is also a gender bubble it's much easier for you to interact with with the same gender so same gender same income same education same political views same sports preferences if you're a fan of this club you will gravitate to us and so so people literally fucking themselves yes so as I said as I said in previous interviews that we that we homosexuality is auto-erotic right absolutely auto-erotic it's it's a form of masturbation in effect so of course it has psychosexual dimensions it is emotional dimensions it's as rich and as profound as any relationship between two genders do opposite genders not no one is taking this away but there is something in homosexuality does not exist in heterosexuality it's the fact that you are making love to your own gender in other words a pronounced hot auto-erotic element and this is exactly what social media does it closes you that with fragmented society into identical groups and I call this phenomenon identical Ness we'll talk about it when we talk about no malignant Galit Aaron's identical Ness is the the tendency to propagate it core to collaborate and to interact only with people who are very very very very very much like you and of course the epitome of this is the selfie because in the selfie what you're doing you're interacting with the only person who is a hundred percent like you selfies today constitute 60 percent of all activity on social network we don't have statistics for the beginning but I remember the beginning and I remember when social networks started it was never about selfie I don't remember selfish now actually the world the word selfie entered the Oxford English Dictionary only in 2015 ten years after social media were invent were became popular yeah because at the very beginning there was no such thing as selfie selfie became very prominent in in 2015 14 and today it is six out of every ten posts in other words six out of every ten times we interact with ourselves yes we watch ourselves we shoot a number inviting the world and where to come still look at this thing I'm looking at me look at me – look I'm looking at me you look at me me and that's so I would put it like this as far as autoeroticism not as far as depth of emotions not as far as depth of interest but as far as the autoeroticism there heterosexuality which is very different it's not autoerotic it's different it's hetero erotic having having sex with the other then there is homosexuality which is having sex with someone who is 50% like you and I almost almost you and then there is selfie which is masturbating having sex with yourself indeed the main sexual activity between 15 and 45 15 and 45 among men is masturbation come the main sexual activity that's my name 51% of all Internet users consume pornography on a daily basis at least once a day and this in order to masturbate mmm if you go if you look at only the male side of Internet users it's 90 percent mmm women do it much less so we have a situation of making love to ourselves literally making love to ourselves psychologically falling in love with ourselves take photos of yourself all the time you must be in love developing emotional investment in ourselves this is known as Kat exes cat exes is emotional investment we object relation theory in psychology told us that we start by being emotionally invested in ourselves and then we learn to externalize this investment in invest in others and this is called object relations we invest in objects but social media reverses this process creates regression indeed social media encourages very very primitive infantile baby like defense mechanisms such as splitting you're either my friend or my enemy you don't like me you are my enemy you like me you're my friend it's the like dislike it's a it's very binary by net binary state you know very very primitive baby like today Facebook added emojis and all kinds of possibilities but have a look take thousand posts no one uses them no one uses them vast majority are still using like dislike a few time if you are using Wow or very few no one uses them so it's very binary so it's splitting is an example like you're my enemy you're my friend black and white thinking catastrophizing that's why we have conspiracy theories and so social media caters to the most primitive defense mechanisms behaviors trades it is in this sense psychologically regressive and here's the problem if they had good intentions you could say okay they tried it they got it wrong no it's all by design that's the shocking thing there is no difference therefore between social media and tobacco all drugs in effect I can see a world where social media will be banned I will not be shocked at all frankly on psychological grounds alone I would have banned it of course anything that increases suicide by 31% should be banned so I was gonna suggest within that paradigm this documentary that maybe we don't say to people look you don't have to stop but maybe reduce that but based on what you've said here really the only responsible thing to do is to stop if it's that toxic that it's actually designed to actively encourage aggression and envy in the way that you in regression regression and when you regress you don't have control so lack of impulse control results very very serious and sick pathologies but forget all this there is a direct link established now beyond any doubt on three continents between this thing anxiety depression and suicide simple in the most vulnerable group 15 to 24 if I if there were a drug legal drug that would have created the same effects it would be banned by now banned if someone came up with a pill for a robot a muscle enhancing people energy giving pill and things would take it and then suicide would shoot up 31% the pill would be banned don't you agree social media so that I can't say to people you can have a little bit of this highly toxic substance of course you can and it's very telling that social media is not doing this for example why not limit the usage to two hours a day why not have a clock an inbuilt clock that I can use my facebook only 2 hours after 2 hours Facebook will block me well Instagram just last week put a clock in and I imagine Facebook will do because they know that documentaries like this are being made and that the tide is turning if such clocks are introduced it only enhances my proposition that it's an epidemic yeah and but that's not the real question the real question why wasn't it done 10 years ago was why wasn't it built that way if the whole platform was built for addiction as the chief engineer himself admits if you knew that we were creating addiction why didn't you limit the number of pills why didn't you limit the usage yeah beneath you from the very beginning why did you have to wait until by a rough estimate 20 thousand teens died every year every single year why did didn't you why did you have to wait for this to happen before you introduced a watch being pulled up in front of the Senate committee and I think even the Umbrella tryna get him in front of some people there it's a question him as well yes because it's exactly the same strategies of tobacco tobacco tobacco companies knew it's addictive they introduced ingredients that made it addictive their advertising made it addictive I mean it was all about addiction it's exactly the tobacco situation and and tobacco is addiction not conditioning social media is conditioning is can't emphasize how critical this distinction is addiction can be overcome there are well-known techniques to counter addiction and reverse it and so on so for conditioning is a much more difficult much more difficult conditioning on the in conditioning is more like the type of work that we do yes trauma victim have some conditioned affair effects effect in in behaviors but always took much much much deeper conditioning conditioning for example to food or to pain pain aversion and so it's a primal conditions primal condition yes the social media the collision we are social animals the most terrifying things think for us is not not to have food not not to not to be in pain its pain doesn't rightness food doesn't rightness the weather doesn't frighteners at the most frightening thing for any of us is to be ostracized to be excommunicated not to belong absolutely by far the most frightening thing we we we can look at history people prefer to die just not to leave the community the biggest weapon of the Catholic Church for 400 years was not burning on the stake or to the fake it was excommunication their worst heretics were left to live but they were excommunicated when baroque Spinoza Benedict Spinoza attacked the Jewish perception of God when he attacked the concept of God in Judaism he was not killed he was not stoned as the Talmud dictates it was simply excommunicated later on he was thrown out of the community there is no bigger punishment none if I was threatened with lack of food with IRA or no one will talk to me for 10 years but I mean no one not even you know but I don't know what I would have chosen yeah I think I would have chosen to go to go hungry yeah it's nothing more frightening experts on item and this is what social media is threatening you with if you don't behave in certain ways if you are not negative if you're not hates picture if you are not if you don't behave in certain ways your bikes will be nothing your legs will be minimum it will not be retreated you will be ignored you will be excommunicated if you want to be long this is what you have to do do it be aggressive be split dumb down don't be intellectual then down keep it simple stupid and they they don't tell me there is no manual how to be popular it's a commercial trial and error trial and error and then you discover if I am stupid I leave more likes the stupider I am the more like save if they the more scarce or sparse the content the more likes I have if I put a banana peel I will get more likes than if I put less quote if I don't use long words that will be more popular if I don't pretend that I know something or if I don't tell people that I know something I'll be so you dumb down you and one of the things it does is it forces you to hide your true identity a social media forces you to become not you to deny critical aspects of you if you're intelligent you have to deny that if you are empathic you have to deny that if you're compassionate you have to deny that if you are so it forces you to conform to some kind of ideal that is essentially aggressive regressive infantile any one word gnosis is math cystic Psychopaths I am NOT proud but I'll say it I watched a YouTube video talking about promoting yourself on social media and advertised it said this is a thing that you should do in there if you're traveling you should take a selfie of yourself and show people that you're on a plane and I was like that is the dumbest most narcissistic and pointless fucking thing I could do with a smartphone I tried it the next day the most likes of Alejandro's and then you saw me repeat that again and again and again people love that it's not a picture of anything it's just my stupid face that's a highly sophisticated intellectual statement compared to some other things I mean I swear to it as a girl I'm not kidding yeah there's a woman I think she's Russian girl teenager she has photos only with bananas she's peeling banana she's eating banana banana peel is on the floor by the way no text no text she and banana I must give her points for creativity I mean how many things can you do with a banana without doing what you can do so but that's it and by the way 20 maybe 20 pots I mean you know not very active she has 16 points million sixteen point eight million forints I'm really sweet being does the planet I think but I can't figure this humanity is like I can't 16-point and each of these banana things is like two hundred and seventy thousand likes and this connection sixteen point eight million you can't say anymore that they're all teenagers they look statistically they're not I mean it can be there must be grandmothers of sixty years old there there must be a few professors of psychology there there must be statistically speaking yet I mean it's shocking that anyone who graduated primary school would like a teenage girl with a banana I mean what they do and of course the jumping cats on YouTube info that makes more sense to because it's funny it's like yo I got a dopamine hit from that I'm getting something from it's funny this is the most vacuous thing I've ever done on social media ended up being one of the most rapidly popular Amin with inside of 24 hours I was like eight hundred likes I was doing nothing it's nothing there's nothing that unless you say no it forces you to deny yourself yes even if you don't feel it so wonderful I got two thousand like somewhere at the very very very back recesses of your mind there is a tiny tiny Richard Grandin voice that says look what you're doing this is different yeah stupid what's wrong with you it's a tiny tiny voice and of course not only it forces you to deny parts of yourself which are sometimes critical but it forces you to fight with yourself because there's this small voice and you tell him shut up I got a thousand likes shut the fuck up why do you keep tormenting me I hate you so it creates what we call dissonance all behavioral social media is dissing antic it's dissonance based all of it because even when you post a selfie it is automatically sharing the selfie with people you don't know you don't care about and betas potential haters and you're opening yourself up you're vulnerable posting a selfie is the epitome vulnerability you can certainly be attacked or with reposted or whatever so its entirety enhancing the minute you post a selfie your level of anxiety shoots up absolutely shoot after a million million times that you're anxious after two hundred thousand times that you have a fight with you in a voice after three hundred thousand times that you denied part of yourself you become depressed yeah these are the these are the makings of clinical depression we are clinically depressed when we deny ourselves we are clinically depressed when you have constant dissonance and feel helpless about it we dissonance means two forces to equip attend forces to forces with the same power the tear you apart in effect and so on so these are the makings of depression and indeed teens who were interviewed and were asked the simple question does it make you feel good to be on social media big a big portion said I think about 40 something percent said that it makes them feel very bad another 20 something percent said it makes them feel bad only three percent three said that it makes them feel good shocking make you just ask the question wider why are they conditioned precisely what I'm saying the only reason we do things that make us feel bad is if we can't help it yes and the only thing things we cannot help are addictions and conditioning right I maintained that social media is conditioning not addictive of course every conditioning looks like addiction because these are compulsive behaviors that you cannot control and so they look the same but they're not the same they're not the same at all for example one of the main features of addiction is that it provides you with a meaning take the drug addict a drug addict has to get up in the morning find money steal from his mother find money and then buy connected called the pusher if you look at it from outside it's a bit like business yeah you have to get up you have to manage your business as a machine and the product as a mission is a purpose is a goal it's goal-oriented at the end of the day as a product it consumes the product it is even a high so it provides meaning it's we call it exoskeleton it provides a meaningful exoskeletal a conditioning no conditioning doesn't provide many conditioning is totally automated like I want food I press lever I don't want pain I don't press the lever it's there's no it like the lever is my meaning and I'm goal-oriented and it's utterly automated robotic and most of the behavior in social media is robotic it doesn't it doesn't give meaning it doesn't then down endow you with meaning it's utterly robotic in the sense that it's one-on-one you push result and and again you push and the result creates the next push so if I put a selfie and I get 100 likes I will try to put another selfie so that they get a thousand likes its and this is conditioning yeah it's it's it's one of the differences addiction is a much much much much more complex phenomenon phenomenon than conditioning social media is simple there's no complexity there actually there's a hatred of complexity that's why 140 characters yeah there's a hatred of complex saying it's an T complex it's and so this is one of the tell-tale signs the more the simpler the activity of the platform or the more it is geared towards conditioning then towards then towards addiction okay anyhow a few a few perceptions pointing towards is the age issue I mean literally the age of the person who's using the social media and when they were born the age in which they were born post if you were born post 1990 I guess by the time you are coming into your sense of self more socially which would be adolescent years with net after the age of 12 this is when social media probably will have the most sway over your perception of yourself and the world do you think that the if you were born into using internet that you're more susceptible and more vulnerable to the ill effects of ever I think there are three assuming the Internet has an all pervasive influences have just claimed I think the there should be three groups one is people who were exposed to the Internet in their late 20s 30s 40s cetera et cetera and that would include dinosaurs like me then people who were exposed to the Internet during adolescence and native digital natives were exposed to the Internet during the formative years were born with the tablet and exposed to the Internet I think the first group still uses social first program in the the old days still use the social media as a form of communication essentially reconnecting with old flames and all perils and so forth creating social network and the full sense of the world communicating as they would have done on a telephone or earlier via mail post office so they would see social media as a natural extension of the Telegraph and the telephone and in the post office and so on and they're buying therefore I think they would miss out on all the pernicious effects of social media because they would limit their communication to the swapping of information the expression of very basic emotions and the coordination of meetings essentially and the second group would be so they'll be extremely reluctant to use social media for any truly intimate communication conversation there are more face-to-face more the second group are people who've been exposed to social media during their adolescence and they would tend to use social media for social positioning for competition for info connecting but for highly specific purposes so for example connecting romantic using it as a romantic aid or using it in order to exchange information about the preferences music preferences in music purposes in movies and so on and so forth again the communication would be superficial it would be a motionless in in many ways and so even this group I would say is pretty safe because they've had exposure during the formative years to alternative alternative methods and ways of communicating digital digit digital natives are doomed they are doomed because social media pervades all types of communication as early as six years old I have seen six years old communicating on social media I've definitely seen nine years old and ten years old and so on the thing with social media is that the gratification is instantaneous response times are very fast therefore any hormonal or other effects in the brain are immediate and addictive conditioning is total and every other mode of communication by comparison looks lacking yeah it's either too slow or it's too accurate and big you Utley plays a big role in in social media it's too accurate or it's too all-encompassing or it's too intimate or it's too something social media is ideally suited to digital natives and it both shapes their brains on the one hand and on the other hand reflects their their brains and mentality they grow up in a world where attention span is very truncated worried the emphasis is on communicating unbridled sharp emotions clear very primitive very infantile where all the defense mechanisms are activated in every interaction where and where aggression and similar negative emotions are freely expressed and used as social means of social control or peer control and to be more precise so this is their world social media is is well suited to it they have no alternatives they never experience anything else their face-to-face interactions are very limited if at all families have disintegrated don't forget we are talking about generations which also concurrent with the experience of social media lost all other social experience people who are 40 50 60 years old have experienced the family people who are 20 30 years old so certain people who are 4050 years old experience the extended family yeah so the nuclear family grandfathers grandmothers and uncles and so on people who are 20 30 years old experienced only the nuclear family and people who are 15 to 25 years old experienced no family whatsoever statistically speaking right forty percent of them grew with single mothers and about 70 to 80 percent of them come from divorced families so the the lack the lack of all other social interactions and all other social dimensions makes it impossible for them to compare to develop critical thinking about what they are experiencing to realize that the limitations and problems of social media and so on so forth social media is the only social world they know they have no family they have no nothing else to compare it to adult rule or and also because they are not in term intermeshed because they are not embedded in other social other types of social interactions social units there's also no control yeah there's no control over the usage of social media this this this movement of controlling the usage of social media is very new it's about two years old only now we are beginning to talk about limiting access to tablet since smartphones smartphone 3hours tailoring the use of social media to age groups etc etc but even this control is rudimentary and and utterly ineffective this is no way to control the use of cyberspace and you can find children as young as 9 year old or 10 year old who are self-mutilating online who are for joining suicide counts death counts who are exposed to extreme violent pornography and and so on and so forth the the world therefore I think there is a problem with the question there is no world and social media social media is the world for digital images right there is no other world outside it there is no reality outside it they live inside social media this is their and this reminds me of the question you asked me about simulation mm-hmm these are simulated people they live inside the simulation they are in the matrix already you said that simulated people they themselves are experiencing themselves as simulations they don't expect the experiences as real people who are were living real lives but they don't yeah they are living in a matrix yeah social media is not is is their reality bits and bytes are there the the instead of atoms come instead of atoms their families are peers it's their they and these peers are not real they never see them or rarely see them face-to-face they interact with digital renditions of other people of objects of places of events of yes these are all digital and in this sense they are denizens of the matrix absolutely they live inside a simulation so the gulf between someone who is 35 years old and someone who is 15 years old is not a quantitative gulf one who is 35 years old uses social media 2.6 hours a day and the one who is 15 uses social media 6 hours a day which by the way these are the statistics it's not a quantitative curve its qualitative golf the one who is 35 or 25 comes from reality and uses social media as we would use or she would use any other tool a knife a camera the one who is 15 lives inside social media – the one who is 15 years old or 10 years old or even 20 years old up to 24 actually according to study studies by 20 up to the age of 24 these people live inside social media they perceive reality to be unreal they perceive social media to be real and reality to be unreal because everything they see they see mediated via screen if they see starving children in Yemen these are bits and bytes and digits on a flickering screen these are never they are these starving children in Yemen are as real to them as their peers across the street as their classmates in other words as unreal to them yes the reality is vanished with this generation now this is this is an open question ancients like me very me old people would say that this is an unmitigated catastrophe because you know they can't function in reality they would elect someone like Donald Trump to the presidency because reality TV and reality are the same line and so they would make decisions which are not grounded in reality or badly grounded in reality and so they would have better outcomes and disasters and so so someone like me would feel that this is horrible someone who is a bit younger or a lot younger may say so what reality is becoming simulation we are becoming the matrix yeah what's wrong with it actually in the interview we had last time you asked me about simulation and I said well if I mean if I'm plugged into the matrix and I am allowed to to control how the program operates in other words to express my wishes and preferences and priorities and the program abides by them obeys me who why how why should we say it's not real yeah for example if I'm plugged into the matrix and my wish is to have a wife with two children and I instruct the program to generate a wife and to generate two children and I live with this wife and two children for the rest of my life another 70 years and then I die could you say that I did not have a wife or two children I think that you wouldn't be able to say that there's a difference so there's no way I can tell you I mean they look made of atoms I agree so what the emotional reaction to this wife and two children be a we experience the experience of having a wife and two children would be identical to having the wife and two children made of carbon so this is this is I think what people find very difficult to to understand to accept there is no difference in principle between simulation and reality reality is a simulation made of carbon atoms that's all while simulation is a simulation made of other materials or electric currents so philosophically speaking there is no rigorous argument that can distinguish reality from simulation and if the children live in social media and in cyber world for the rest of their lives and never ever meet another human being made of atoms I cannot say that their life has been meaningless insignificant and lacking in any way I can I want to ask you a selfish question I I'm single but I'd rather be in a relationship and I've been trying for about six months to get myself into one it's very very hard and there's a lot of difficulties that I've associated with that and want to just pull up to things you said that social media encourages and ambiguity it encourages a lack of intimacy could you tell me why that is and do you think that that would bleed out into the real world because that's these are the things I'm struggling with people's communication is extremely ambiguous and there's a terror of intimacy just the intimacy of meeting face-to-face creates this relationship destroying terror like you will be fine until you want to meet in flesh and blood ah now that's a problem because you've only ever met my false self so why does social media need to be ambiguous and non internet the only intoning of ambiguity is intimacy the only way to disambiguate anything is to get to know it right and the only way humans get to know each other is via intimacy okay so when we become more and more intimate with another person that person becomes less and less ambiguous to us every initial contact is always ambiguous and every relationship always end in certainty it could be very bad sir too soon to show it's not the guy for me it's not the girl for me it's the girl for me but it's always certainty absolutely the thing is that social media is structured to prevent certainty and to deter intimacy and the reason it is structured that way is because intimacy is is intimacy is geared intimacy reduces the need for addiction it reduces the need for conditioning intimacy is in a way its biggest the biggest addiction when you are in an intimate relationship array ship it usually consumes most of our emotional resources cognitive resources or there's simply no time for for other addictions or to put it very bluntly intimacy competes with Facebook yes you're either intimate or you're on Facebook so intimacy and of course intimacy has social aspects it's a social activity it's an interpersonal activity but it's a social activity as you are never only intimate with one person the minute you're intimate with one person you also automatically intimate with her friends yeah with her family with her background with her even city we never are intimate with one person we are always intimate with networks centered around one person in a way intimacy is a mini mini mini social network with extreme addictive power which of course renders the likes of Twitter Facebook and everything else Twitter and Facebook Facebook purvey and rely on loneliness they need atomized schizoid separated Hermits recluses nerds socially in act socially unable to bought to bind and to bond and to be intimate they need this kind of population it's the only kind of population that becomes conditioned and addicted to social media usage in lieu of real contact in real relationships we know that manufacturers of products introduced into their products to elements we know that first of all they try to make the products indispensable here we have iPhone 7 why – three works perfectly because they have rendered the product indispensable to our lives by us as a status symbol via branding by our new functions by I mean so-called new functions and so so all manufacturers try to render their products indispensable and built into the products obsolescence these are the two – mantras of manufacturing same goes with social media social media tries to render itself indispensable and would obliterate any threat to itself the biggest threat by far is an intimate mature adult healthy engulfing relationship so social media are anything but social they need optimized lonely individuals and the second thing is obsolescence social media expires much faster than any product the minute you post the tweet and the minute it's been liked 24 hours is that later is dead it's obsolete its obsolete and you need to renew the product you need to post another tweet you need to tweet again these are the only manufacturers in the world who made you their employee it's the only manufacturing industry in the world where the users are its employees when you buy an iPhone iPhone doesn't expect you to go to Foxconn in China and put the components together but when you use social media you generate the content think about it it's supposed to be a content platform yet you generate the content it's it's selling the content to advertisers but you generate the content yeah it's supposed to be a communication platform but you communicate it's it's you do everything Twitter and Facebook are dumb idiotic black spaces doing nothing but obeying your input you are working for Facebook and Twitter and others of course that are not machine are you saying that the wizards of Facebook and Instagram are aware that their users getting into intimate relationships would be bad for business yes I've no doubt about this they discourage intimacy in every conceivable way do you think they're actually discouraging humans from meeting face-to-face with humans because it would make them redundant and that's written into the algorithms it's really they're not worried about face-to-face meetings because as I told you the platform is built for instant gratification it's it's very much like drugs so that's not a real threat okay but the real threat is that you will find someone through Facebook or some that with whom you will develop an intimate relationship and listen it's extremely simple when you start a love affair you really have no mind for facebook yes it's simple eyeballs yes your eyeballs will now rest on the beautiful woman that you fell in love with yes not on Facebook yes she is their competition they need to eliminate her from your life they need to monetize your eyeballs they need your eyeballs anything that competes with them for your eyeballs is a bloody threat and let your family your your girlfriend television other social network anything Google why Facebook doesn't allow Google to crawl to Facebook database did you ever ask yourself Facebook does not allow Google to crawl the database mmm why I mean some accounts are private okay yeah you can put a robot text you know it will not be scanned but why the open ones yeah why my page my page of my yeah Facebook does not allow Google to scale because that would steal away its resource yeah it's a product it's it's what they sell to advertisers and so on now if you have a girlfriend your consumption of Facebook will collapse by 60% perhaps even your girlfriend insists that you don't use Facebook anymore because you're flooded by offers from very beautiful women yes many many do penguin many say listen if I see Tommy Tasha if we get together I mean cut cut down on social media yeah because listen every men every men almost every means is is flooded with you know offers sexting is much more common than you think your experience it's it's there oh yeah so sex thing is a standard communication yes sexting became standard so imagine imagine imagine I have a wife or a girlfriend yeah who would go for good who would agree to that I mean she would tell you isn't cut it cut it off cut down so it's just right it's a lot love is a threat social media love is a threat relations literate not a intimacy straight together Ness is a threat a community is a threat friendship is a threat anything that takes you away from Facebook Siri if social media is a Virant is a virus as community family love intimacy is that the antidote to the virus yes of course if you once in your life experience true intimacy mmm social media suddenly feel plastic feels weird weird feels creepy I would say everything yeah absolutely creepy yeah if you really for once in your life experience true intimacy yeah and it's true intimacy is utterly addictive you will spend the rest of the life looking for it again yes yes you will travel to Italy you will travel to I mean you will look for it everywhere nice to start actually right you will look for it again in a game in a game okay I mean I mean poor poets have been writing poems for the entirety of the life mmm because they've experienced love when they were 21 great cases mm-hmm the experience not what you want when there were 70 they were still writing poems about love what is love oh it's love it's love we know by the way physiologically speaking love is addictive yeah absolutely addictive person yeah why why would you not assume that one addiction fights another for limited scarce resources your eyeballs your time your money but social media so love is the love is the almost the antithesis of naadi antithesis it's it would be antidote to the virus of social media digital is the competitor of the simple so if I'm trying to generate intimacy with people whose brains are conditioned by social media I am doomed to your fail absolutely because they will be ambiguous come to dependence of intimacy nor there will be conditioned against intimacy it's not a question that they are incapable of intimacy mmm they regard intimacy negatively as a threat they regard intimacy as a threat because one thing that most people neglect to mention is that most interactions or social media are painful social media creates for intimacy fake intimacy indeed but even that because it's very minimal but even that is usually accompanied by some some dose of pain in other words you put yourself up it's a kind of intimacy mmm very minimal binding but still it's intimacy of 10 comments 3 will tell you how ugly oh and I'm being generous yes 3 will tell you how are you never mind if you're not I mean everyone if you are yes yeah yeah it wasn't matter 3 will tell you how ugly are just to pain you to hurt you it's sadistic mister so people are conditioned to expect an experienced pain from even tiny minimal exposure no aversion intimacy you expect intimacy from these people yes are you kidding me so you're saying that condition to find micro intimacy very painful so they assume major macro if there was these thousand times more painful torture how about there is also as I was told that's conditioning but not addiction that's contagious example of conditioning the other thing I'm thinking is of course if I've met them through social media and I've seen and with their filters and the photoshopping and everything else the last thing they want is for me to meet the because intimacy as you said was a lack of ambiguities getting to know someone then I will see you as you are not as you have been projecting yourself yes social media encourage you to encourage you to present only specific aspects of yourself or even photoshopped I mean kind of modified but even those who are totally honest and don't Photoshop their photos even they are of course extremely selective what they present and they are selective because of the pain yes I mean I would love to be intimate and vulnerable on social media but then I can expect thousands of or you'll be stabbed and we stuck to this yes psychology at least up to this I had an extremely painful childhood and so on and sometimes I want to share I'm going through a very difficult period I would never do this social media never mmm so if if a bonito if the very very beginning some things are excluded from the very beginning some things are excluded then it's not really communication and it's very little to do with the real person yeah these people learn to interact on superficial levels they can never go deeper because they're terrified their pain averse what social media has done it has exponentially multiplied the amount of negative social interactions and pain exponentially you know there are these stories by Thomas Hardy and others about small village or a small town and you did something wrong and then all the town is gossiping about you that was how many people how many people gossiped about you mm yeah you can be easily attacked on a typical day by 20,000 people easily on social media Thomas Hardy in the worst nightmares that he created like the Mayor of Casterbridge casterbridge this was the worst I mean this guy committed a crime here to escape this date if you count in the novel how many people criticized him we are talking I think about 60 right any post on Facebook would get more a bigger number of negative reactions yes without a doubt so so social media amplified exponentially negative social the negative aspects of social interactions of all kinds and especially intimacy in other words pain a version conditioning yes when you when the dog presses the lever to get food and is electrocuted he would prefer to die of hunger yes fact yeah it's a fact of course dogs die of hunger in experiments because every time they press the lever they got electric shock every time you press the lever you get an electric shock yeah so you don't press the intimacy lever anymore yeah and even when it's offered to you in a safe environment you would still not press it when the electric shock was disabled the dogs still did not press the lever yes they died see that's what is happening to all of us we're emotionally dying what Sam if I could invite you to be crisper prescriptive what can I do in there so that in my situation where I am looking to be in a relationship what would be the the path that has the most chance of being successful do you think do I need to go to a country where there is no social media there's no internet well first of all I think that there are enclaves even in our society social media is much less dominated or prevalent of interest for example academia mm-hmm you can find gorgeous intellectual girls who are far more interested in in reading and so on the leading social media so depends to a very large extent the message you are sending hmm I don't know if you're really talking about yourself but yeah yeah if you are really talking about yourself the message that you are sending is that your social media savvy that you live on social media mmm YouTube channel the zone and therefore you create a filter your message creates a filter and so the women who would approach you women who are into YouTube into social media into celebrities into gurus into perhaps either dispensing with this filter or creating a different filter a parallel life yeah creating a parallel life okay we've ever totally different filter yeah would then get you the right director a woman okay the right girl okay I'm lucky to have this mmm was I have a parallel life yeah I have I have a life on the internet much longer than yours I have a life on the Internet be gone them for 25 years and these are tracks this kind of women and so on and I italic know them and I have I but I do have a parallel life mmm I have written the physical books and published them physically I you've been around before the internet I work in a khadeem etcetera etc so I absolutely have so we are forced by social media to develop multiple personality if we want the old-fashioned way of loving being intimate catering to our deep emotional needs and so on we are absolutely forced to divorce social media and to do that you need either to divorce shut down the devices or if you can do that by exigency I mean your own then you need to create a parallel life and you need to simply have two personalities yeah two parallel trajectories – and then I think it's not too difficult to find because they are in enclaves I mean seriously peeking please yeah women who volunteer women to work in a khadeem women who are into theater into yeah I mean they are absolutely enclaves that are not into social media but of course as you are now only such women I mean yes now that's your right I just got love advice from from Sam Backman and it was it was good historical moments if you're broadcasting so through Sam helped me know I didn't you

43 thoughts on “Sam Vaknin: the TRUE toxicity of social media revealed

  1. A woman cave up to me today and said “ I just saw the most amazing video with a guy called Sam vamknen being interviewed by Richard branlin about social media, I’ll email it to you” … I said “Thankyou, please do, sounds great.”

  2. So glad I quit FB and IG. Don’t miss them at all. Now I only have youtube but it’s not the same as those other social media.

  3. People talk about Drug Addiction but forget to add social media and attention for females is like a Drug to them… People post things on social media even if their real lives are shitty… They wanna celebrate Valentine's day online but not really in reality.

  4. i have known the BS social media almost 2 decade now, never had any account on FB or whatever there is, only YT because i have ditch TV long time ago.. my kids never seen a tv for a more than decade now.. all of my friends have FB and i dont give a flying fuck if they think im being left out,, everytime we have a drink i always ask their moronic behavior.. are we going to drink and chat or are just going to stare our phone the whole fckn time? which is which coz im leaving.. hahaha fckn priceless im getting bored with people right now.. no fckn sense of life

  5. I always wondered why the models that were considered "hot" were so skinny. I never found them very attractive. It makes so much sense that it's basically a gay man's ideal based on a boy's body. Really interesting insight.

  6. how will history remember social media? probably the same way we remember the nazi's, authoritarian Eugenic genocide commiting monsters.

  7. I think this excellent interview could be improved if the interviewer did not continuously reply audibly. I know this is how we speak in a real conversation but in an interview, it gets a bit ponderous to the listener (us). Nonetheless, I think it's a great interview, just wanted to give some constructive criticism.

  8. An utterly brilliant and hugely accurate take on the way things are going. People who value their own identity, their minds, and thinking for themselves; really need to drop all 'social media' (please can we re-brand it to Unsocial Media now?). Year on year, these tools are killing off ways we interact with each other, even family birthdays are slowly changing from a physical card and a visit; to a 'Like' on whatever platform you use, or a 10 second "happy birthday" comment.

  9. Billie eilish is the most good example for this it's well a product that target all those results. , she is the most viewed singer nowdays, she say she hate herself and her songs are clear about her depression and "bad" feelings, theres not something special about her songs or even creativity, but teens love her so much because they feel the same as her.

  10. This is the most profound talk I have seen on the dangers of social media. Gratitude to the both of you.

  11. What a sobering video to watch. Makes me view my own shortcomings in a different light. Now I feel depressed. Best to hop on Instagram and get a dopamine hit!

  12. Essential viewing for the modern world and particularly the millenials among us… We must understand this subject and ask ourselves some serious questions.

  13. I had no idea there were that many gays. Vaknin should have said it: the soy boys, sissies and fags are out of control. Who is going to breed and reproduce to maintain population level? I think this is the fault of feminists.

  14. simulacra
    :
    An image or representation of someone or something.
    A simulacrum is a representation or imitation of a person or thing.

  15. Social media is a frustrating bullshit platform so just delete it or suspend your account because it seems they never let you totally delete it.

  16. I haven’t watched this video yet. But, I get on FB far less than I used to. Although I broke the spell because of some family issues I was having, I’ve realized a number of things:

    At my age (mid-fifties), I do not have that kind of time to waste.

    Social media is for when you absolutely can’t be doing anything else.

    At this point in the lie of FB, I already know where all of my acquaintances stand on just about every issue. They’re never going to say anything new, at this point. We are who we are, for better or for worse, smart or stupid AF.

    Most people are on social media (at least once they’re an adult) are there to see how others have done in life. It’s a silent competition. Lots of schadenfreude and crocodile tears.

    Not only is the competition based upon how many likes people get, but I believe I’ve seen a trend on withholding likes, as well.

    I have played my own part in competing, providing and withholding likes. It doesn’t make me a better person. I don’t believe anyone truly wants to see anyone else succeed. It just isn’t that type of environment, even if it’s based on regular life.

    When I’m on social media, I’m not being productive. I’ve had all day at work to be non-productive in my own life.

    You can always tell it’s staged when a person or family NEVER seems to have a problem – except if someone actually dies. Doesn’t mean they should air their laundry. Just that you know it isn’t actually real.

    So much is recycled. I’ve seen stories posted that I knew about years ago so, it’s just a feed to keep you engaged – and posting.

    I’m aware that social media can post things that TV news cannot and doesn’t have the bandwidth for. While this is important in having free speech, it also fosters hate and violence. I’m aware that, as much as I perpetually hate to see something like animal abuse, that postings from places like PETA also work to desensitize people to it. Even increase some people’s taste for it, leading it to be perpetuated. It doesn’t mean that I feel that abuse shouldn’t be allowed to hide in the dark, unexposed. It’s just that I recognize that it can increase one’s lust for violence, if they are so inclined and, perhaps, even if they originally weren’t. I also question whether even PETA is subject to how many comments and emojis they receive as, I know that everything is a business.

    I learn nothing of value. I learn nothing that will increase my knowledge of my life or how to get by in this world. On YT, I learn this. I learn about myself, others (in a useful way) and I pickup knowledge and skills, rather than just someone’s political opinion, which I’m disinterested in. Especially at this point in the game.

    Those are not my friends. If SHTF for me, the most I’d get out of it is this: 😢. It doesn’t mean that anyone should carry my burdens. But one also knows that their only contact with so many of them is as a “FB Friend”. You couldn’t otherwise contact them, if you tried (and the same goes for me). The relationships survive off the fact that no one is depended upon. That they are distant acquaintances. That, whatever happens to anyone is no closer to anyone else than a clip on the news.

    One of the things that has shied me away from it are the messages you receive to get back on it. The messages that say you haven’t posted in awhile tell me that there is a vested interest in getting me to do so, which I have no knowledge of, despite it being my own business. Anyone who’s ever turned on Siri on iPhone and tried to subsequently turn it off knows this feeling. When I did this, Siri made FOUR attempts at stopping me. Why. Because there’s a vested interest in me being participatory in providing personal opinions and information – straight from the horse’s mouth. And they’re not even paying me. As one person I know put it, “YOU are the product.” Also, like anything connected to social media – smartphones, smart speakers, etc., these are “always listening devices”. I don’t necessarily feel self-conscious when I’m near one. But they proliferate our lives so very much that I need not own one myself. All I need to do is to be near someone else who does. Needless to say that the FB camera that was being touted so much is the next best thing to toilet cam. Only the most arrogant or narcissistic, interested in their life being a movie, would be inclined to own one.

    Sure, I stop off at FB sometimes. But, I’m quickly scrolling through because IDGAF. It had it’s time. I saw how former coworkers and classmates are doing. But, I’m not close enough to them to much care as, I recognize it’s the same for them.

  17. Sam said he does not believe in conspiracy theories, yet in the next statement he said social media was DESIGNED to induce psychopathy of sorts. Is that, in itself, not a conspiracy of sorts?

  18. In fact, recently I had no reason to be depressed. I got rid of all toxic relationships in my life including a narcissistic father.

    First thing on "to-do" list. Get rid of social media. Facebook gave me 600 likes for selfies. They can perfectly take them back. In micro level (such as narcissistic manipulative relationship) as in macro (people who govern us and rule the world ) have as main interest to DESTROY ALL GOOD. (feelings, deeds, good thoughts and opinions ).

    The change comes individually. Within yourself. Refusing to receive these conditioning. Let us be free! ❤

    Thank you, Mr. Vaknin.(the most useful narcissistic I met).

  19. 51:14 this is how the Noble price books are chosen , but who does the election

    1:20:00 same with Pinterest, you are not allowed to see the pictures before you are registered

  20. I’ve been listening to Sam Vaknin for some time. He makes total sense. I hope more people listen to this message in regards to social media.

  21. I Have a Facebook account but I only check it about 1 every month or 2 I really only check it because I've moved away from all my child hood friends so I like to check up on them see how there lifes are going I have never had Instagram or Twitter or any thing else but you tube I like watching crime shows and trials on here that's it & I'm a 36 year old women

  22. EGADS….in the end days in the bible it says we will become lovers of self…at.about.43:00.

    But he is wrong.about trump voters…they were notnthese zombies…they pushed.for the made up.reality called hellary clinton who was one big lie…a narcissist…he should of seen her pathology easily

  23. Wonder what he thinks about the utuber kid SOPH…tho u tube is taken her wisdom down because of haters…islamic haters…also wonder what he thinks about Islam which isnt far from these people

  24. Probably one of the most important you tube videos i have ever seen.

    I wondered why i found social media so REPULSIVE. I was worried about my phone…. ow i know why

  25. This interview is gold. It has spelled out so much of what I have been thinking but have struggled to put into words.

  26. I've deleted most of my social media except fb and snapchat to keep in touch with friends but soon I'm gonna delete YouTube too as it's too toxic and the comment section is fillied with bots and trolls and they all sound alike

  27. Excellent content. I’m only on YT nothing else. Doing tons of political research and, not trying or meet anyone. What level of danger am I in in destroying my capabilities of live relationships. I will say this. The only ppl I meet and speak to are here and in live-streams and chats to the point that live ppl walking around no longer interest me bc they are not awake and aware. So I don’t even try anymore. Pls respond. I’ve never used FB OR TWITTER OR INSTAGRAM ever thank God bc YT is addicting in itself. Something I’ve noticed also no one calls anymore. Everything is texting. They won’t even attempt to just make a normal phonecall. That is upsetting. Texting alone has created a huge schism in social connection. It is really sad.

  28. When he says teens 15-20 age group are stuck here we really are because anyone outside of it has no one else
    We can’t change a thing

  29. 5:48 "…numerous studies that showed that men prefer fuller women curvaceous women women with love lentils and so on…"
    Good job YouTube auto-generated captions!

  30. I used Facebook for a bit. It was mildly useful as some kind of social circle news station, but mostly it was just a bunch of noise.
    I prefer WhatsApp and Discord, good old fashioned chatting with people you know.

  31. Social media is used to distract and brainwash people keep them Focus From Reality which do social media becomes the image and illusion of the reality that they are created for themselves which they feel who they want to be in this internet world brain wash tactics by the government u gotta stay focus I only use YouTube for educational videos n ok classic music with messages to the people

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