REPLAY: Maclean’s National Leaders Debate

REPLAY: Maclean’s National Leaders Debate


♪♪>>THE LONGEST ELECTION CAMPAIGN
IN MODERN CANADIAN HISTORY HAS BEGUN.
GOOD EVENING. I’M PAUL WELLS THE PLIICAL
EDITOR OF MACLEAN’S MAGAZINE. I’M AS SURPRISED AT THIS AS YOU
ARE. WE HAVE ALL FOUR POLITICAL
PARTIES IN ONE ROOM. I DON’T KNOW IF IT WILL HAPPEN
AGAIN BEFORE WE VOTE. WHILE THEY’RE HERE, LET’S MAKE
THEM WORK. JUSTIN TRUDEAU, THE LEADER OF
THE LIBERAL PARTY, ELIZABETH MAY, THE LEADER OF THE GREEN
PARTY, THOMAS MULCAIR, THE LEADER OF THE LIBERAL PARTY AND
STEPHEN HARPER, THE LEADER OF THE CONSERVATIVE PARTY.
EY WE’LL COVER THE ECONOMY, THE ENERGY AND ENVIRONMENT AND
FOREIGN POLICY AND SECURITY. EACH SEGMENT WILL BEGIN WITH
QUESTIONS FROM ME FROM ONE OF THE LEADERS.
THEN ANOTHER LEADER WILL RESPOND TO THE FIRST FOLLOWED BY AN
EXTENDED DISCUSSION AMONG ALL THE LEADERS.
WE’LL GO THROUGH THAT PROCESS TWICE FOR EACH OF OUR FOUR
SUBJECTS. WE DREW LOTS TO DETERMINE THE
RANDOM SPEAKING ORDER. EVERYBODY HERE KNOWS THAT ORDER.
BUT NOBODY IN ANY OF THE PARTIES HAS SEEN OR HEARD THE QUESTIONS
I’LL BE ASKING TONIGHT. THE PARTIES HAVE AGREED THAT AT
ANY POINT I CAN INTERVENE TO DIRECT THE CONVERSATION.
SO LET’S BEGIN WITH OUR FIRST TOPIC — THE ECONOMY.>>IF THERE’S ONE SUBJECT ON
EVERY VOTERS’ MIND AS THIS ELECTION APPROACHES, IT’S THE
ECONOMY.>>WE HAVE DANGEROUS ECONOMIC
WINDS BLOWING IN CANADA.>>THE COUNTRY’S ECONOMIC HEALTH
IS SHAKY. WE’RE PROBABLY COMING OUT EVER A
MILD RECESSION. OIL PRICES HAVE SLUMPED.
EXPORTS ARE WEAK. HOW HIGH SHOULD TAXES BE?
WHAT’S OTTAWA’S PROPER ROLE IN THE ECONOMY?
IS CANADA’S WEALTH FAIRLY DISTRIBUTED.
>>Paul: THAT’S THE CONTEXT FOR OUR DISCUSSION ON THE ECONOMY.
>>Paul: AND AS THE LUCK OF THE DRAW WOULD HAVE IT, THE FIRST
QUESTION GOES TO THE LIBERAL LEADER JUSTIN TRUDEAU.
MR. TRUDEAU. >>Justin Trudeau: GOOD EVENING,
PAUL. >>Paul: CANADIAN ARE FEELING
ANXIOUS ABOUT THE ECONOMY. IT SHRANK IN MAY FOR THE FIFTH
MONTH IN A ROW. MANUFACTURING IS HURTING.
THE PRICE OF OIL IS DOWN. YOUR ECONOMIC PLAN IS BUILT
AROUND A MIDDLE CLASS TAX BREAK. IS THAT REALLY ENOUGH OF A
RESPONSE GIVEN THE CHALLENGE THAT YOU SAY CANADA FACE RIGHT
NOW?>>Justin Trudeau: ONE OF THE
THINGS WE’VE SEEN, PAUL, FOR 10 YEARS, THE APPROACH MR. HARPER
HAS TAKEN HAS SIMPLY NOT WORKED FOR CANADIAN.
HE’S CONSISTENTLY CHOSEN TO GIVE OPPORTUNITIES AND TAX BREAKS AND
BENEFITS TO THE WEALTHIEST CANADIAN IN THE HOPES THAT WOULD
CREATE GROWTH. THAT’S NOT HAPPENING AND THAT
ACTUALLY GOES TO THE HEART OF THE QUESTION THAT’S BEING POSED
IN THIS ELECTION CAMPAIGN. IS STEPHEN HARPER’S PLAN WORKING
FOR YOU? HE TOOK A DECADE OF SURPLUSES
AND TURNED IT INTO EIGHT CONSECUTIVE DEFICITS.
WE’RE THE ONLY COUNTRY IN THE G-7 THAT’S IN RECESSION RIGHT
NOW, AND HE HAS NO PLAN TO GET OUT OF IT.
WE JUST FOUND OUT THAT WAGE ARE FALLING AS WELL.
YOU MAY NOT FEEL THAT FROM 24 SUSSEX, BUT I KNOW YOU FEEL IT
AT HOME. THAT’S WHERE THE LIBERAL PARTY
HAS PUT FORWARD A PLAN TO SUPPORT THE MIDDLE CLASS, TO
CREATE GROWTH THROUGH STRENGTHENING THE MIDDLE CLASS.
WE’RE THE ONLY PARTY OCCUPY THIS STAGE TONIGHT THAT’S COMMITTED
TO LOWERING TAXES FOR THE MIDDLE CLASS BY ASKING THE WEALTHIEST
TO PAY MORE TAX. THERE’S A LOT MORE ELEMENTS TO
OUR PLAN AND I’LL BE GLAD TO TALK ABOUT THEM TONIGHT.
WE KNOW WHEN YOU PUT MONEY IN THE POCKETS OF MIDDLE CLASS
CANADIANS, THE ECONOMY GROWS. >>Paul: A LOT OF ECONOMISTS
HAVE SAID MEDIAN INCOMES HAVE BEEN ON THE RISE SINCE 1990.
DO YOU HAVE A SOLUTION TO A PROBLEM THAT ISN’T REALLY THERE?
>>Justin Trudeau: NOT AT ALL. IF YOU SPEND ANY TIME CROSSING
THE COUNTRY AS I HAVE TALKING TO PEOPLE WHO ARE WORRIED ABOUT
SAVING FOR THEIR OWN RETIREMENT OR WORRIED ABOUT HAVING TO MAKE
CHOICES BETWEEN THEIR OWN OPPORTUNITIES AND ACTUALLY
PAYING FOR THEIR KIDS’ EDUCATION, PEOPLE ARE WORRIED
THAT PERHAPS FOR THE FIRST TIME WE HAVE A GENERATION OF YOUNG
PEOPLE WHO AREN’T GOING TO DO BETTER THAN THE PREVIOUS
GENERATION DID. WE NEED SOLUTIONS FOR THAT.
IT’S NOT TO CONTINUE TO GIVE BENEFITS TO THE WEALTHIEST.
IT’S TO BRING A FRESH APPROACH, A NEW PLAN, AND A GREAT TEAM TO
ACTUALLY CHANGE THE COURSE, BECAUSE THE ONLY RISK RIGHT NOW
WOULD BE STICKING WITH WHAT HAS BEEN A FAILED PLAN FOR 10 YEARS.
>>Paul: THANK YOU, MR. TRUDEAU. AGAIN, AS THE LUCK OF THE DRAW
HAS IT, THE FIRST TO RESPOND IS STEPHEN HARPER.
>>Prime Minister Harper: WELL, PAUL, LET ME JUST CORRECT A FEW
FACTS. THE CONTEXT IS THIS.
OVER THE PAST 10 YEARS IN A PERIOD OF UNPRECEDENTED ECONOMIC
INSTABILITY, WE HAVE SEEN, SINCE THE GREAT GLOBAL FINANCIAL
CRISIS, CANADA HAS THEED STRONGEST ECONOMIC GROWTH, THE
STRONGEST JOB CREATION RECORD AND THE STRONGEST GROWTH OF THE
MIDDLE CLASS. WHAT WE FACE RIGHT NOW, LET’S BE
CLEAR ON WHAT THE BANK OF CANADA SAID.
OVER 80% OF OUR ECONOMY IS GROWING.
OUR EXPORTS, NONENERGY EXPORTS ARE UP 10% THIS YEAR.
WHERE WE HAVE WEAKNESS, OBVIOUSLY, IN THE ENERGY SECTOR
BECAUSE OF THE FALL IN ENERGY PRICES.
OUR VIEW IS — WE’RE GOING TO HAVE GROWTH THIS YEAR AND GROWTH
GOING FORWARD. THE WAY YOU DEAL WITH THIS IS
STICKING WITH A PLAN THAT’S WORKING, LOW TAX, PRUDENT PLAN
THAT’S WORKING RATHER THAN GO TO A PLAN OF HIGH TAXES AND HIGH
DEBT AND HIGH DEF SIT DEFICITS
WHICH IS FAILING EVERYWHERE ELSE.
>>Paul: YOU HAVE COMPARED CANADA UNDER THE LIBERALS OR THE
N.D.P. TO GREECE. YOU HAVE CALLED THE TAX
INCREASES THAT RACHEL NOTLEY HAS INTRODUCED IN ALBERTA A
DISASTER. WILL A FEW CHANGES IN THE TAX
RATES AT THE MARGIN HAVE THAT KIND OF CATASTROPHIC EFFECT?
>>Prime Minister Harper: WE NEED TO BE CLEAR ON WHAT IS
BEING PROPOSED. THE OTHER PARTIES ARE PROPOSING
LITERALLY TENS OF BILLIONS OF ADDITIONAL SPENDING TO BE
FINANCED BY PERMANENTLY HIGHER TAX RATES.
>>Justin Trudeau: THAT’S NOT TRUE, MR. HARPER.
>>Prime Minister Harper: LOOK AROUND THE WORLD, COUNTRIES IN
THAT POSITION HAVE NOT RECOVERED FROM THE RECESSION AND ARE
STAGNATING. THIS COUNTRY HAS HAD THE BEST
PERFORMANCE OF MAJOR DEVELOPED ECONOMIES AND WE HAVE SOME OF
THE BEST PROSPECTS GOING FORWARD.
THAT’S WHY WE SHOULD STAY ON COURSE.
>>Paul: THANK YOU, MR. HARPER. WE’LL OPEN IT UP TO ALL THE
LEADERS. MR. MULCAIR, WHAT DO YOU THINK
OF?>>Thomas Mulcair: I KNOW
CANADIANS FAMILIES WORK HARD AND TRY TO MAKE ENDS MEET.
WE HAVE LOST 400,000 MANUFACTURING JOBS.
THERE ARE 200,000 MORE UNEMPLOYED THAN WHEN THE CRISIS
HIT IN 2008. MR. HARPER’S PLAN SIMPLY ISN’T
WORKING. WE KNOW THAT.
INCOMES ARE FLAT LINING. HOUSEHOLD DEBT IS SKYROCKETING.
WE HAVE A PLAN TO INVEST IN THE MIDDLE CLASS AND TO CREATE NEW
JOBS. WE WANT TO INVEST IN
INFRASTRUCTURE. WE WANT TO GIVE A BREAK TO SMALL
AND MEDIUM-SIZED CORPORATIONS. MR. HARPER AND TRUDEAU AGREE
TENS OF MILLIONS TO THE WEALTHIEST CORPORATIONS IS THE
WAY TO GO. WE SINCERELY DISAGREE AND WANT
TO CREATE 1 MILLION QUALITY CHILDCARE SPACES.
THAT’S NOT JUST GOOD FOR THE ECONOMIES AND.
>>Elizabeth May: I WAS IN THE 2008 LEADERS DEBATE AND
MR. HARPER AND MR. PRIME MINISTER, WE WERE THE TWO WHO
WERE THERE. I RECALL VERY CLEARLY MR. HARPER
WAS STILL TALKING ABOUT IF THERE WAS GOING TO BE A RECESSION, WE
WOULD BE IN ONE ALREADY. I DON’T THINK HE HAD A GOOD
RECORD FOR SPOTTING WHEN THIS COUNTRY IS IN AN ECONOMY.
IT’S THE WRONG TIME FOR AUSTERITY MEASURES.
WE NEED TO BUILD UP CANADA’S ECONOMY THROUGH INVESTMENT.
RIGHT NOW THERE’S NO INVESTMENT GOING ON NOT WITH THE PRIVATE
SECTOR THAT’S SITTING ON $630 BILLION OF WHAT MARK CARNEY
CALLED THE DEAD MONEY. WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THIS
ECONOMY DOESN’T SPUTTER TO A HALT.
IF WE STAY WITH MR. HARPER’S RISKY PLANS, THAT’S WHERE WE’RE
HEADED.>>Prime Minister Harper: LET’S
BE CLEAR WHAT THE RECORD IS. WE HAVE 1.3 MILLION NET NEW JOBS
CREATED SINCE THE GLOBAL FINANCIAL CRISIS, THE BEST
RECORD BY FAR IN THE G G-7.
THAT’S WHY WE HAVE MANUFACTURING AND OTHER SECTORS OUTSIDE OF
ENERGY THAT ARE NOW EXPANDING, BECAUSE WE ISSUE ABLE, BECAUSE
WE HAVE A BALANCED BUDGET AND ARE ABLE TO MAKE INVESTMENTS IN
THINGS LIKE INFRASTRUCTURE AND HEALTH CARE AND BENEFITS FOR
FAMILIES. NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO THROW US
BACK INTO DEFICIT AND TO START TO SPEND TENS OF BILLIONS OF
DOLLARS WE DON’T HAVE PAID FOR BY TAXPAYER.
THAT’S THE WRONG POLICY. >>Justin Trudeau: THE REALITY
IS CANADIANS ACROSS THIS COUNTRY KNOW TIMES ARE TOUGH.
YOU HAVE COMPLETELY BECOME DISCONNECTED FROM THE REALITY
THAT PEOPLE ARE FACING ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
YOUR PLAN ISN’T WORKING, AND WE KNOW THAT.
AND THE RISK WOULD BE STICKING WITH YOUR PLAN.
NOW MR. MULCAIR IS GOOD IN HIS CRITICISMS AND QUESTIONS.
BUT IS NOT NECESSARILY GOOD AT ANSWERING THE OWN QUESTIONS TO
HIM. WHAT WE’VE SEEN IS THAT HE’S PUT
FORWARD PLANS FOR $15 MINIMUM WAGE.
HE’S TALKING ABOUT IT ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
WHAT IS ACTUALLY THE CASE, HE’S MISLEADING CANADIANS AND GIVING
CANADIANS WHO WORK IN BIG-BOX STORES AND IN BEHIND CHECKOUT
COUNTERS AND IN SHOPS AND COFFEE SHOPS FALSE HOPE, BECAUSE HIS
MINIMUM WAGE PLAN ACTUALLY WILL ONLY HELP LESS THAN 1% OF EVERY
CANADIAN WHO EARNS MINIMUM WAGE. THAT KIND OF OF FALSE
ADVERTISING IS IRRESPONSIBLE. >>Thomas Mulcair: UNDER OUR
PLAN TO INTRODUCE A $15 AN HOUR FEDERAL MINIMUM WAGE, OVER
100,000 CANADIANS WILL GET A RAISE.
UNDER MR. TRUDEAU’S PLAN, NOT A SINGLE CANADIAN —
>>Justin Trudeau: ACTUALLY MR. TRUDEAU’S PLAN, 315,000
KIDS. >>Thomas Mulcair: 400,000
WELL-PAID MANUFACTURING JOBS LOST DURING HIS MANDATE.
THE JOBS THAT ARE BEING CREATED ARE MOSTLY PART-TIME PRECARIOUS
JOBS. IT’S NOT JUST THE N.D.P. SAYS
THAT. ONE OF CANADA’S LEADING BANKS
THE CIBC SAYS THE QUALITY OF JOBS BEING CREATED IS AT THE
WORST LEVEL IN HAY GENERATION. >>Prime Minister Harper: LET ME
GIVE YOU THE FACTS. 90% OF THE 1.3 MILLION NET JOBS
CREATED ARE FULL-TIME. 80% ARE THE PRIVATE SECTOR.
2/3 ARE IN HIGH-WAGE INDUSTRIES. THAT’S WHY INCOMES HAVE BEEN
GROWING IN THIS COUNTRY WHEN THEY HAVE NOT BEEN GROWING IN
OTHER COUNTRIESES AND I’LL TELL YOU WHAT WON’T GROW OUR
ECONME — KINDS OF PLANS THESE GUISE ARE PRESENTING WHERE THEY
WANT TO INCREASE C.P.P. TAXES A HIT OF A THOUSAND DOLLARS FOR
EVERY WORKER MAKING $60,000 A YEAR, AND ANOTHER THOUSAND
DOLLARS ON THE EMPLOYER IF HE WANTS TO KEEP HIM ON THE
PAYROLL. THESE ARE NOT WAYS YOU HANDLE
ECONOMIC TURBULENCE.>>Justin Trudeau: TALK ABOUT
SENIOR PENSIONS. >>Prime Minister Harper: WITH
LOW AND STABLE POLICIES. >>Justin Trudeau: YOU HAVE
CHOSEN TO RAISE THE AGE OF RETIREMENT FROM 65 TO 67 WHICH
IS TAKING TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS OUT OF THE POCKETS OF
OUR SENIORS AND YOU HAVE REFUSED TO ENGAGE WITH THE KIND EVER
PENSION SECURITY THAT ONTARIO AND OTHER PROVINCE ARE ASKING
FOR. CANADIANS KNOW YOU HAVE LET THEM
DOWN BECAUSE YOU HAVE CONTINUED TO GIVE BENEFITS AND TAX BREAKS
TO THE WEALTHIEST CANADIANS.
WE’RE GOING TO STRENGTHEN THE MIDDLE CLASS WITH A MORE
GENEROUS CHILDCARE BENEFIT THAT WILL LIFT 315,000 CHILDREN OUT
OF POSTERT AND STOP SENDING CHEQUES TO MILLIONAIRES.
>>Prime Minister Harper: LET ME BE CLEAR WHAT WE’VE DONE FOR
SENIORS. RETIREMENT AGE WILL NOT GO UP
FOR OVER 10 YEARS. WE HAVE BROUGHT IN THE LARGEST
INCREASE OF THE GUARANTEED INCOME SUPPLEMENT FOR POOR
EASTERNS IN 25 YEARS MUCH WE BROUGHT IN INCOME SPLITTING FOR
OUR PENSIONERS, SOMETHING THE THE OTHER PARTIES OPPOSE.
THEY APPRECIATE IT.>>Justin Trudeau: MR. HARPER,
THAT IS SIMPLY NOT TRUE.>>Prime Minister Harper: WE
MAKE RULES FOR RISKS.>>Paul: WE’RE NOT HALFWAY DONE
WITH THE SECOND ON THE ECONOMY. >>Justin Trudeau: YOU’RE
PUTTING THAT IN MISLEADING ATTACK ADS AND NONE OF THE OTHER
PARTIES HAVE TALKED ABOUT TOUCHING AND I’M INCLUDING
MR. MULCAIR ON INCOME SPLITTING.>>Prime Minister Harper: YOU’RE
AGAINST INCOME SPLITTING PHILOSOPHICALLY AND PROMISED TO
TAKE IT AWAY FROM FAMILIES WHO HAVE A LESS GENEROUS INCOME
SPLITTING ARRANGEMENT FOR PENSIONERS.
THERE’S NO WAY PENSIONERS SHOULD BELIEVE YOUR CHANGE EVER STORY
ON THIS ONE.>>Elizabeth May: MR. PRIME
MINISTER, YOU’RE CHERRY-PICKING YOUR DATA.
NET NEW JOBS ISN’T RELEVANT WHEN COMPARING IT TO OTHER G-7
POPULATIONS UNLESS YOU CORRECT FOR POPULATION GROWTH.
COMPARED TO OTHER ECONOMIES, WE ARE DOING VERY POORLY INDEED, WE
ARE IN A RECESSION UNDER YOUR WATCH FOR THE SECOND TIME.
>>Prime Minister Harper: MS. MAY, I THINK THE FACT WE ARE
ABLE TO BRING IN IMMIGRANTS IS PART OF OUR ECONOMIC ACTION
PLAN. INVESTMENTS IN INFRASTRUCTURE
AND IMMIGRATION TO DRIVE OUR ECONOMY.>>Paul: LET’S CLOSE OUT THIS
SEGMENT WITH MR. MULCAIR. >>Thomas Mulcair: WHAT
MR. HARPER FAILS TO MENTION, HE’S RUN UP EIGHT DEFICITS IN A
ROW. HE’S ADDED $150 BILLION TO
CANADA’S DEBT IN THE LAST 10 YEARS.
AND FRANKLY, LAST WEEK, AS WE HEADED INTO THIS CAMPAIGN IN
JUST ONE DAY, HE SPENT OVER A BILLION DOLLARS.
HONESTLY, MR. HARPER, WE REALLY CAN’T AFFORD ANOTHER FOUR YEARS.
>>Prime Minister Harper: WE HAVE A BUDGET THAT’S BALANCED
NOW WHEN OTHER COUNTRIES DON’T.>>Paul: THAT WRAPS UP VERY
PUNCTUAL OF YOU ALL. THAT WRAPS UP THE FIRST ROUND OF
QUESTIONS ON THE ECONOMY. WE’RE ONLY HALF DONE ON THIS
SUBJECT ALONE. THE NEXT QUESTION GOES TO
ELIZABETH MAY FROM THE GREEN PARTY.
MS. MAY, THE GREEN PARTY’S POLICIES CALL FOR A
TRANSFORMATION OF THE CANADIAN ECONOMY FROM RESOURCE EXPORTS TO
HIGH-VALUE ADDED BUSINESS. THAT’S A LONG-TERM PROJECT AND
CANADA IS FACING TROUBLE RIGHT NOW.
WHAT CAN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DO NOW, THIS YEAR, TO REANIMATE
THE ECONOMY?>>Elizabeth May: EXCELLENT
QUESTION. WE HAVE TO BEAR IN MIND AND KEEP
IN CONTEXT THE OILSANDS ARE ABOUT 2% OF OUR G.D.P.
WE HAVE A LOT OF ECONOMIC ACTIVITY.
THE PRIME MINISTER IS RIGHT. WE’RE SEEING OTHER SECTORS BEGIN
TO REBOUND AND EXPORT. OUR DOLLAR SHOULDN’T KEEP
DECLINING. IT’S A SOURCE OF WORRY.
WE CAN’T SIT BACK AND THINK THE CURRENT STAGNANT ECONOMY WILL
FIX ITSELF. WE NEED INVESTMENT FROM THE
PUBLIC SECTOR. WE NEED TO INVEST IN A CLIMATE
ACTION PLAN. FRANKLY, WE NEED AN ARMY OF
CARPENTERS, ELECTION CONTRADICTIONS AND CARPENTERS
GOING OUT TO PLUG LEAKING BUILDINGS.
30% OF CARBON POLLUTION COMES FROM THE ENERGY WE WASTE AND THE
MONEY WE WASTE HEATING THE OUTDOOR IN THE QUINTER AND
COOLING IT IN THE SUMMER. AND WE NEED TO INVEST IN
MUNICIPAL INFRASTRUCTURE. THAT DEFICIT IS $123 BILLION.
WE NEED TO GET AT IT AS OUR BRIDGES AND ROADS ARE CRUMBLING.
>>Paul: CAN YOU RECRUIT YOUR ARMY OF CARPENTERS WITHOUT
JEOPARDIZING BUDGET BALANCE? HOW PASSPORT IS BUDGET BALANCE
IN THE SCHEME OF THINGS?>>Elizabeth May: IN THE SCHEME
OF THING, NOT VERY. I WOULD DIFFER WITH ALL DUE
RESPECT WITH THE PRIME MINISTERMENT WE’RE NOT GOING TO
SEE A BALANCED BUDGET THIS YEAR. THE PARLIAMENTARY BUDGET OFFICE
JUST PUT OUT ITS NEW FIGURES. I WOULDN’T CONDEMN THEM N OUR
PREBUDGET ADVICE TO JOE OLIVER, I SAID THIS FICATION WITH
BALANCING THE BUDGE SET BEING DRIVEN BY THE POLITICAL
IMPERATIVE THAT THE CONSERVATIVES CREATE BY SAYING
IN THE LAST ELECTION WE’LL GIVE YOU ALL THESE GOODIES ONCE WE
BALANCE THE BUDGET. THIS YEAR THEY MONKIED WITH THE
BUDGET AND PUT IT OUT APRIL 21. NOT BECAUSE THEY NEEDED TO KNOW
WHERE OIL WAS GOING BUT WANTED TO BOOK THE SHARE OF THE GENERAL
MOTORS SHARES IN THE NEXT FISCAL YEAR.
BEE SOLD 23 MILLION SHARES IN GENERAL MOTORS.
WAS THAT A GOOD POLICY CHOICE? I DON’T KNOW.
FIDDLING WITH THE BOOKS SO THAT SHOWED IN THIS YEAR’S BUDGET TO
HELP FAKE A BALANCE AND THEN THE PRICE OF OIL KEEPS DROPPING.
WE’RE NOT GOING TO SEE A BALANCED BUDGET.
I DON’T CONDEMN THEM FOR THAT. IT’S FAR MORE SERIOUS THAN
$150 BILLION OF FEDERAL DEBT HAS BEEN ACCUMULATED UNDER THIS
PRIME MINISTER. >>Paul: THANK YOU, MS. MAY.
AND ONCE AGAIN BY THE LUCK OF THE DRAW, THE FIRST LEADER TO
RESPOND TO MS. MAY IS THOMAS MULCAIR.
>>Thomas Mulcair: I HAVE A CONCRETE PLAN TO KICK START THE
ECONOMY AND HELP THE MIDDLE CLASS.
WE’RE GOING TO INVEST IN INFRASTRUCTURE.
WITH ONLY 8% OF THE TAX BASE. THAT’S NOT GOING TO WORK.
WE’RE GOING TO REDUCE SMALL BUSINESS TAXES BECAUSE THEY’RE
RESPONSIBLE FOR CREATING 80% OF THE NEW JOBS.
WE’LL PUT OUR EFFORT THERE INSTEAD OF WHAT MR. TRUDEAU AND
HARPERS HAVE DONE GIVING TENS OF BILLIONS OF TAX CUTS THEY BOTH
AGREE ON TO OUR LARGEST CORPORATIONS.
WE’RE GOING TO CHAMPION MANUFACTURING AND INNOVATION
INCLUDING GREEN ENERGY TECHNOLOGIES WHICH WILL
REPRESENT A $5 TRILLION INVESTMENT OVER THE NEXT
15 YEARS ARNDTED WORLD. WE’RE NOT PART OF IT BECAUSE
MR. HARPER DOESN’T BELIEVE IN A POSITIVE ROLE FOR GOVERNMENT IN
THAT. WE’LL HELP THE MIDDLE CLASS,
BECAUSE IT IS GOOD FOR FAMILIES AND GOOD FOR THE ECONOMY WITH 1
MILLION $15 A DAY CHILDCARE SPACES ACROSS CANADA.
>>Justin Trudeau: THE CHALLENGE WE’RE FACING RIGHT NOW IN OUR
ECONOMY IS CREATING GROWTH. ONE THING THAT IS CONCERNING
MR. MULCAIR’S CORPORATE TAX HIKE, IT’S A TIME WE NEED MORE
GROWTH AND MORE INVESTMENT AND NEED TO CREATE MORE JOBS.
SO HIS PLAN TO HIKE CORPORATE TAXES IS SIMPLE PANDERING TO THE
PEOPLE WHO LIKE TO HATE CORPORATIONS.
BUT WE NEED THAT GROWTH. WE NODE THAT JOB CREATION.
THE MONEY DOES HAVE TO COME FROM SOMEWHERE IF WE’RE GOING TO
INVEST OR STRENGTHEN THE MIDDLE CLASS.
I CAN’T UNDERSTAND WHY MR. MULCAIR HAS RULED OUT DOING
WHAT WE’RE DOING WHICH IS ASKING THE WEALTHIEST 1% IN THIS
COUNTRY TO PAY MORE TAX SO WE CAN GIVE A BIG TAX BREAK TO THE
MIDDLE CLASS.>>Thomas Mulcair: THE REAL
QUESTION IS AFTER THOSE TENS OF BILLIONS OF TAX CUTS FOR THE
RICHEST CORPORATIONS, WHERE ARE THE JOBS IF THAT’S SUCH A GOOD
PLAN? ON THE QUESTION OF PERSONAL
INCOME TAX INCREASES, WE’RE OPPOSED TO THEM.
LOOK AT A PROVINCE LIKE NEW BRUNSWICK.
THEY’LL HAVE A TAX RATE OF 58.7%.
THEY DON’T HAVE A MEDICAL FACULTY.
HOW WILL THEY ATTRACT AND RETAIN TOP-LEVEL MEDICAL DOCTORS WHEN
THEY’LL BE TOLD OH BY THE WAY, OUR TAX RATE WILL BE CLOSE TO
60%. WE BELIEVE CANADIANS ARE PAYING
THEIR FAIR SHARE. CANADA’S CORPORATIONS ARE NOT
PAYING THEIR FAIR SHARE. N.D.P. WILL BRING UP THEIR TAXES
SLIGHTLY.>>Elizabeth May: ABSOLUTELY
ROUTE, MR. MULCAIR. WHEN HE CUT THOSE CORPORATE
TAXES, HE SAID THESE CORPORATIONS WERE IN HIS WORDS
THE JOB CREATORS. THEY’VE SAT ON THAT MONEY.
THAT’S WHY MARK CARNEY CALLED IT THE DEAD MONEY.
$630 BILLION IN CASH. 32% OF CANADA’S G.D.P. IS
SITTING STAGNANT. IT’S APPROPRIATE TO RAISE IT
CLOSE TO 2009. IT WOULD BE STILL BE VERY
COMPETITIVE TO OTHER COUNTRIES.>>Prime Minister Harper: LET’S
BE VERY CLEAR, PAUL, ON THE TAX RECORD, FIRST OF ALL.
YES, WE HAVE CREATED THE LOWEST TAX ENVIRONMENT FOR BUSINESS
INVERSTMENT ACROSS THE G-7. THAT’S ONE OF THE REASONS WE
HAVE THE STRONGEST EMPLOYMENT GROWTH IN THE G-7.
NOT JUST FOR BIG BUSINESS, BUT WE CUT TAXES MANY TIMES FOR THE
SMALL BUSINESS AND THE N.D.P. VOTED AGAINST THAT EVERY SINGLE
TIME. NOT ONLY DID THESE TAX CUTS
CREATE JOBS BUT OUR TAX REVENUES WENT UP FROM THE BUSINESS
SEBTOR. WE’VE DONE THE SAME THING FOR
PEOPLE. WE HAVE CUT TAXES
ACROSS-THE-BOARD WITH A VAST BULK OF THOSE TAX BREAKS FOR
MIDDLE AND LOW-INCOME CANADIANS. WHAT THE OTHER GUYS WANT TO DO
IS IMPOSE ON WORKERS AND WORKERS E.I. TAXES AND C.P.P. TAXES.
THOSE THINGS WOULD KILL JOBS AND HURT ORDINARY PEOPLE.
MR. HARPER IS ESSHOES.
HE CONTINUES TO TELL PEOPLE THAT WE NEED TO STAY THE COURSE.
PEOPLE AT HOME KNOW THAT, KNOW THAT WE’RE NOT WORKING THAT THIS
ECONOMY IS NOT WORKING FOR THEM. WE NEED A FRESH APPROACH.
WE NEED A APPROACH THAT UNDERSTANDS THE WAY TO CREATE
GROWTH IN THE CANADIAN ECONOMY IS TO STRENGTHEN THE MIDDLE
CLASS AND MAKE SAW PEOPLE HAVE JOBS AND CONFIDENCE AND A
CAPACITY TO SPEND AND BE SURE ABOUT THE FUTURE THAT THEY’RE
BUILDING. MR. HARPER HAS CONTINUED TO GIVE
TAX BREAKS TO THE WEALTHIEST AND THAT’S NOT ACTUALLY STIMULATED
OR HELPED OUR ECONOMY IN ANYTHING.
THAT’S WHY CANADA IS GROWING LESS AND LESS FAIR AND THAT’S
WHAT WE NEED TO FOCUS ON. CANADIANS ACROSS THE COUNTRY ARE
LOOKING FOR A CHANGE. THEY’RE LOOKING FOR A BETTER
APPROACH AND BETTER PLAN FOR THE ECONOMY.
THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT THE LIBERAL PARTY IS PUTTING OUT.
>>Prime Minister Harper: WE HAVE NOT ONLY A BALANCED BUDGET
BUT THE LOWEST DEBT LEVELS OF ANY G-7 COUNTRY.
>>Justin Trudeau: THAT’S BECAUSE OF THE DECADE OF
SURPLUSES. >>Prime Minister Harper: AND
MIDDLE CLASS INCOMES IN ALMOST EVERY OTHER COUNTRY, THEY’RE
RISING, AND THEY’RE RISING IN SIGNIFICANT PART BECAUSE OF THE
TAX BREAKS WE’VE GIVEN TO MIDDLE AND LOW-INCOME CANADIANS THAT
THE OPPOSITION PARTIES HAVE CONSISTENTLY VOTED AGAINST AND
THAT THEY WANT TO REVERSE.>>Thomas Mulcair: HERE’S A
FACT, PAUL, THAT CANADIANS KNOW. BACK IN 2008, MR. HARPER WAS
MISLEADING. HE SAID WE WERE NOT IN A
RECESSION. IN FACT, TURNED OUT WE WERE IN
THE WORST RECESSION SINCE THE 1920s.
HE’S TRYING TO HIDE THE FACT THAT WE ARE IN A DEFICIT AGAIN.
EVERY OUTSIDE ANALYST AGREES WITH THAT.
THE PARLIAMENTARY BUDGET OFFICER IS CATEGORICAL ABOUT THAT.
IT IS A DEFICIT SCENARIO AND $150 BILLION HE’S ADDED TO THE
DEBT AND MR. HARPER’S JOB-CREATION RECORD IS WORST
SINCE THE SECOND WORLD WAR. >>Prime Minister Harper:
CLASHFICATION CLARIFICATION ON THE FACTS.
SO FAR THIS YEAR, WE ARE SUBSTANTIALLY IN SUBPLUS AND
NATIONAL WELL AHEAD OF OUR BUDGET PROJECTIONS AND THOSE ARE
THE REAL NUMBERS, AND OUR DEBT LEVELS ARE WAY.
>>Thomas Mulcair: YOU’RE TRYING TO DENY THE FACT THAT FOR THE
PAST FIVE MONTHS THOSE SAME STATISTICS FROM THE CANADIAN
GOVERNMENT HAVE SHOWN THAT FOR FIVE MONTHS IN A ROTE CANADIAN
ECONOMY HAS SHRUNK. WE’RE ONE MONTH AWAY FROM A
TECHNICAL DEFINITION OF RECESSION.
>>Elizabeth May: FICOULD ADD. >>Prime Minister Harper: I’M
NOT DENYING THAT. WHAT I’M SAYING IS THAT —
>>Thomas Mulcair: YOU’RE NOT DENYING WE’RE IN A RECESSION.
>>Prime Minister Harper: THEY’RE IN THE ENERGY SECTOR.
THE REST ARE PREDICTED TO GROW. THE WAY TO HANDLE FALLING OIL
PRICES IS NOT TENS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF INCREASES TAXES
AND BOR OATH AND — BORROWING AND SPENDING.
>>Elizabeth May: MR. HARPER, YOU MADE A PROMISE IN 2007 THAT
YOU WOULD TACKLE THE BARRIERS TO TRADE AND LABOUR MOBILITY IN
THIS COUNTRY AS AN ECONOMIC UNION.
YOU SAID YOU WOULD GO TO THE TRADE AND COMMERCE CLAUSE IN THE
CONSTITUTION IF NEEDED TO BE. NOW WE HAVE MORE BARRIERS TO
TRADE WITHIN CANADA THAN THE 28 NATION STATES OF THE EUROPEAN
UNION. WHERE IS YOUR PLAN TO BREAK DOWN
THE TRADE BARRIERS?>>Justin Trudeau: THE PROBLEM
MR. HARPER HAS ON THAT ONE IS HE SIMPLY REFUSED TO SIT DOWN AND
TALK WITH THE PREMIERS OVER THE PAST 10 YEARS.
IT’S JUST NOT SHOWING LEADERSHIP.
WE HAVE A FEDERATION THAT NEEDS PEOPLE TO SIT DOWN AND TALK
ABOUT TAX AND BARRIERS AND CLIMATE CHANGE AND HOW WE’RE
GOING TO HELP CANADIANS GET AHEAD IN AN UNCERTAIN ECONOMY.
HE’S SIMPLY REFUSED TO ENGAGE WITH PROVINCIAL LEADERS, WHETHER
IT’S ON INTERPROVINCIAL TRADE BARRIERS, WHETHER IT’S ON
CLIMATE CHANGE OR JOB CREATION AND THAT’S NOT THE KIND OF
LEADERSHIP A BROAD AND DIVERSE COUNTRY LIKE CANADA NEEDS FROM A
PRIME MINISTER.>>Prime Minister Harper:
MR. TRUDEAU ON TRADE. THE PREMIERS IN THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT ARE WORKING TOGETHER TO BREAK DOWN TRADE BARRIERS.
WE MADE SIGNIFICANT PROGRESS IN THIS AREA.
UNDER OUR COUNTRY, WE HAVE INCREASED THE NUMBER OF
COUNTRIES WE TRADE FROM 5 TO 44. NO GOVERNMENT HAS OPENED UP
TRADE OPPORTUNITIES FOR CANADIAN COMPANIES AND CANADIAN WORKERS
LIKE THIS GOVERNMENT.>>Elizabeth May: BUT THEY
CANNED KOREA DEAL. >>Thomas Mulcair: PRIME
MINISTER STEPHEN HARPER IS THE ONLY LEADER WHO ASKED ABOUT HIS
MANDATE GETS TO SAY WHICH ONE. HE’S JUST ADMITTED WE’VE HAD
FIVE MONTHS OF NEGATIVE GROWTH IN A ROW AND A LOT OF EXPERTS
ALREADY SAY WE’RE IN A RECESSION.
MR. HARPER, WE WANT TO SPEND OUR TIME ON CREATING JOBS FOR
CANADIANS. WHAT WE’RE SEEING IS YOU’RE
GOING TO DO EVERYTHING YOU CAN TO HANG ON YOUR JOB.
I’M GOING TO DO EVERYTHING I CAN TO CREATE JOBS FOR AVERAGE
WORKING CLASS.>>Elizabeth May: YOUR FOOT HOLD
IN ASIA WAS TO SELL US DOWN THE RIVER ON NATIONAL SOVEREIGNTY.
YOU BOUND THIS COUNTRY WITHOUT A SINGLE SET OF HEARINGS TO AN
INVESTMENT TREAT WET CHINA THAT BINDS US UNTIL THE YEAR 2045 AND
WE CAN’T GET OUT OF IT. WE NEED TO INSIST ON
TRANSPARENCY. BEIJING WILL BE LOOKING OVER THE
SHOULDER OF THE NEXT PRIME MINISTER AND TELLING US WHAT
LAWS WE’RE ABLE TO PASS. >>Paul: WE’LL HAVE TO LEAVE
THIS SEGMENT OF THE DEBATE ON THE ECONOMY.
I’M SURE QUESTIONS WILL COME UP IN THE REST OF THE NIGHT.
THIS CONCLUDES OUR FIRST ROUND ON THE ECONOMY.
WE’LL CONTINUE AFTER THIS BREAK. PLEASE STAY WITH US.>>I’M GORD.
THE MACLEANS DEBATE RETURNS IN THREE MINUTES.
RIGHT NOW WE’RE COAST-TO-COAST WITH CANADIANS REACTING AND
ANALYSING WHAT IS BEING SAID TONIGHT AND WHAT ISN’T.
A LIVE LOOK OUTSIDE AT ST. JOHN’S NEWFOUNDLAND WHERE
STUDENTS AT MEMORIAL UNIVERSITY HAVE GATHERED AT THE BREEZEWAY
TO WATCH THE LEADERS FACE OFF. NOW WE MOVE WEST TO TAMMIE
SUTHERLAND, GARNERING REACTION ON A KEY ISSUE THE LEADERS WERE
JUST DISCUSSING — JOBS.>>Reporter: GORD, I’M HERE AT
SENECA COLLEGE WHERE WE’VE BEEN WATCHING THE DEBATE WITH SOME OF
THE JOURNALISM STUDENTS. THEY’VE BEEN SCRUTINIZING SOME
OF THE KEY ISSUES WHEN IT COMES TO PERTAINING TO THE COUNTRY’S
YOUTH. ONE OF THE BIG ISSUES IS THE
DIFFICULTY IN FINDING A JOB. WE’RE JOINED BY A JOURNALISM
STUDENT HERE. TELL ME ABOUT SOME OF THE
CONCERNS YOU’VE HEARD FROM STUDENTS ON CAMPUS WHEN IT COMES
TO JOBS. >>SPEAKING WITH STUDENTS
TONIGHT THAT ARE HERE AND IN ATTENDANCE WATCH THE DEBATE, THE
BIG ISSUE REALLY IS JOBS. WE WANT TO MAKE SURE AFTER
SPENDING SO MUCH MONEY AND SO MUCH TIME, SO MUCH INVESTMENT ON
OUR EDUCATION, THAT THERE’S A RETURN.
WE WANT A JOB AFTER THIS. AND WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE CAN
AT LEAST MAKE A DENT IN OUR STUDENT LOANS.
WHAT’S THE MINIMUM WAGE GOING TO BE?
DO WE HAVE A FIGHTING CHANCE REALLY?
>>AND POSTSECONDARY EDUCATION OF COURSE AND LOANS ANOTHER
ISSUE AS WELL. >>POSTSECONDARY EDUCATION,
MAYBE WORKSHOPS AFTER YOU FINISH YOUR FORMAL TRAINING.
IS THERE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR EXTENDED GROWTH?
>>Reporter: WE’LL SEND IT OVER
TO ROGER WHO IS ENGAGING ON FACEBOOK.
>>WE’VE BEEN ASKING YOU QUESTIONS ONLINE.
THE FIRST POLL RESULTS ARE IN. WHO DO PEOPLE FEEL SHOULD BE THE
LEADER OF THE COUNTRY. >>WE OPENED IT UP AT THE
BEGINNING OF THE DEBATE. 50% OF THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE TAKEN
THE POLL SUPPORTING MR. MULCAIR.>>THIS IS ALL HAPPENED SINCE
THE START OF THE DEBATE. JUST ON THAT REACTION.
>>THAT’S CORRECT. THIS IS EARLY DAYS FOR THE
ELECTION. OBVIOUSLY EARLY DAYS FOR THE
DEBATE. WE’LL SEE EVE THE COURSE OF THE
DEBATE WHETHER THESE NUMBERS SHIFT.
>>Reporter: WE’LL BE LOOKING AT OTHER POLLS.
WHAT ARE SOME OF THE OTHER QUESTIONS?
>>WE’LL LOOK AT DEEPER ISSUES ON THE ECONOMY AND THE
ENVIRONMENT. HOW DO CANADIANS ON FACEBOOK
FEEL ABOUT THESE THINGS IN WHICH THE LEADERS BEST REPRESENTED ON
THOSE ISSUES?>>Reporter: THE NICE THING,
WE’LL BE ABLE TO GAUGE THIS REACTION INSTANTLY WITH
FACEBOOK. >>ABSOLUTELY, IN REALTIME.
>>Reporter: WE’LL BE ASKING YOU QUESTIONS THROUGHOUT THE EVENING
WITH LOTS GOING. ARE YOU SURPRISED BY WHAT YOU’RE
SEEING WITH THIS NUMBER, GOING BACK TO IT?
>>AGAIN THIS IS EARLY MOMENTS. THIS IS BEFORE ANYBODY HAS HEARD
THE LEADERS DEBATE. AND SO AGAIN, IT’LL BE
INTERESTING TO SEE OVER THE COURSE OF THE EVENING.
>>Reporter: THANKS. WE’LL SEND YOU BACK TO THE
MACLEANS LEADERS DEBATE AND THE CANADIANS TUNING IN.
SPECIAL ANALYSIS WILL CONTINUE. NOW BACK TO THE DEBATE.
♪♪ MACLEAN’S NATIONAL LEADERS
DEBATE. THE SECOND ISSUE ON ENERGY AND
THE ENVIRONMENT. TWO YEARS AGO, CABINET MINISTER
JOE OLIVER CALLED OIL EXPORTS AN URGENT MATTER OF CANADA’S
NATIONAL INTEREST. SINCE THEN THE TWO BIGGEST
PIPELINE PROJECTS KEYSTONE X.L. AND NORTHERN GATEWAY ARE
STALLED. IT’S ALMOST FOUR YEARS SINCE
CANADA WITHDREW FROM THE KYOTO ACCORD.
>>THE KYOTO PROTOCOL IS NOT WHERE THE SOLUTION LIES.
>>ENVIRONMENT CANADA SAYS WE WON’T MEET OUR TARGETS FOR
CARBON EMISSIONS IN 2020. WHAT’S THE TRADE-OFF BETWEEN
ENERGY EXPORTS AND THE ENVIRONMENT?
CAN CANADA AFFORD TO CLEAN UP ITS ACT?
CAN IT AFFORD NOT TO?>>Paul: OUR FIRST QUESTION ON
THIS TOPIC GOES TO STEPHEN HARPER.
MR. HARPER, YOU’VE BEEN PRIME MINISTER FOR A DECADE AND YOU
WANT TO BE A DIFFERENT KIND OF PRIME MINISTER ON ENERGY
EXPORTS. YOU WANT CANADA TO BE AN ENERGY
SUPERPOWER. MAJOR EXPORTS WITH THE UNITED
STATES AND CHINA HAVE STALLED ON YOUR WATCH.
WHAT HAVE YOU ACHIEVED IN ENERGY EXPORTS THAT BEATS THE RECORD OF
YOUR PREDECESSORS? WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SHOW FOR A
DECADE ON THIS FILE?>>Prime Minister Harper: OUR
NATURAL EXPORTS HAVE INCREASE. WE’VE ALSO SEEN INCREASE IN
URANIUM AND COAL AND OTHERS TO ASIA.
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DOES NOT BUILD PIPELINES.
WE OBVIOUSLY FAVOUR SEEING A DIVERSIFICATION OF OUR EXPORTS.
WE ESTABLISH AN ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT PROCESS.
COMPANIES HAVE TO GO THROUGH THAT, AND THEY’RE GOING THROUGH
THAT PROCESS. IN TERMS OF THE KEYSTONE
PIPELINE, THAT’S A SITUATION UNDER THE CONTROL OF THE UNITED
STATES. I’VE HAD MANY CONVERSATIONS WITH
PRESIDENT OBAMA. HE’S NOT ASKING CANADA TO DO
ANYTHING MUCH HE’S SAYING HE’LL SIMPLY MAKE A DECISION THAT’S IN
THE AMERICANS’ BEST INTEREST. AS YOU KNOW THERE’S OVERWHELMING
PUBLIC SUPPORT ON BOTH SIDES. I’M VERY OPTIMISTIC OF THAT NEW
PROJECT. >>Paul: DO WE HAVE TO WAIT FOR
A NEW PRESIDENT TO GET KEYSTONE PASSED?
AND WHAT IF IT’S A DEMOCRAT?>>Prime Minister Harper: THAT
MAY BE THE CASE. THERE’S OVERWHELMING FAVOUR FOR
KEYSTONE ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE.
I THINK WHOEVER IS PRESIDENT WILL APPROVE THAT EARLY IN THEIR
MANDATE. >>Paul: HAVE YOU FOUND THAT TO
BE FRUSTRATING. >>Paul: JOE OLIVER CALLED THE
NORTHERN GATEWAY PROJECT A URGENT MATTER IN CANADA’S
NATIONAL INTEREST. THREE YEARS AFTER HE SAID IT, IT
REMAINS UNFULFILLED.
>>Prime Minister Harper: IT WENT THROUGH A RIGOROUS
ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT. IT RECOMMENDED SOME 200
CONDITIONS ON THE PROJECT. WE APPROVED THE PROJECT SUBJECT
TO THOSE CONSCIENCE. IT’S UP TO THE PROPONENT TO
FULFILL THOSE CONDITIONS. THAT’S HOW THE SYSTEM WORKS IN
THIS COUNTRY. >>Paul: IF THERE HAD BEEN A
PRICE ON CARBON FOUR YEARS AGO, WOULD OBAMA HAVE APPROVED
KEYSTONE X.L. BY NOW?>>Prime Minister Harper:
ABSOLUTELY NOT. HE HAS NEVER SAID THAT TO ME.
HE TOLD ME WHAT FACTORS WILL INFLUENCE HIS DECISION AND IT
WILL BE HIS OWN EVALUATION OF THE UNITED STATES’ BEST
INTEREST. THE UNITED STATES HAS NOT AGREED
TO HAVE GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS ON THEIR OWN OIL AND GAS SECTOR.
>>Paul: THANK YOU, MR. HARPER. THE FIRST TO RESPOND ON THIS IS
ELIZABETH MAY. >>Elizabeth May: WITH ALL DUE
RESPECT, YOUR RECORD ON CLIMATE IS A LITANY OF EXCUSES.
YOU COMMITTED IN 2008 NOT TO EXPORT UNPROCESSED OIL, BITUMEN
TO COUNTRIES THAT HAD WEAKER EMISSION STANDARDS THAN CANADA.
THAT WOULD OBVIOUSLY INCLUDE CHINA, THE DESTINATION POINT FOR
ENBRIDGE AND KINDER MORGAN WHICH ONLY THE GREEN PARTY ON THIS
STAGE OPPOSED. IT MAKES NO SENSE TO IMPORT OIL
TO COUNTRIES WITH POOR ENVIRONMENTAL RECORDS AND YOU
PROMISED TO BRING IN A NORTH AMERICAN WIDE CAP AND TRADE
PROGRAMME WORKING WITH PARTNERS. THAT WAS IN ANOTHER SPEECH IN
2008. UNDER JOHN BAIRD, YOU COMMITTED
TO OIL AND GAS RECS AND YOU PERSONALLY WENT TO COPENHAGEN.
IT WASN’T A PREVIOUS PROMISE. YOU WERE IN COPENHAGEN AND
COMMITTED TO WHAT I SAY IS A VERY WEAK TARGET.
WE’RE NOT GOING TO COME ANYWHERE NEAR IT BY 2020.
THERE’S NO CREDIBILITY AT THIS POINT.
CANADA NEEDS TO TAKE ACTION. WE’RE HAVING A SUMMER OF EXTREME
DROUGHT, RAINING WILDFIRES AND REALLY SEVERE WEATHER THROUGH
ALL OF OUR SEASONS. CANADIANS WANT ACTION.
CANADA NEEDS TO TAKE ACTION SO THAT WE CAN DEFEND OURSELVES
FROM THE CHANGING GLOBAL CLIMATE AND FROM THE IMPACTS
ECONOMICALLY HERE AT HOME.>>Justin Trudeau: WHAT
MR. HARPER HAS CONSISTENTLY MISUNDERSTOOD ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS
IN THE 21ST CENTURY IS YOU CANNOT MAKE A CHOICE BETWEEN
WHAT’S GOOD FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WHAT’S GOOD FOR THE ECONOMY.
MR. HARPER CONTINUES TO SAY OH, WE CAN’T DO ANYTHING ON THE
ENVIRONMENT BECAUSE WE’LL HURT THE ECONOMY AND NOT ONLY HAS HE
NOT HELPED OUR ENVIRONMENT, BUT HE’S ACTUALLY SLOWED OUR
ECONOMY. HE CANNOT GET OUR EXPORTS TO
MARKET BECAUSE THERE IS NO PUBLIC TRUST ANYMORE.
PEOPLE DON’T TRUST THIS GOVERNMENT TO LOOK OUT FOR OUR
LANGUAGE-TERM INTERESTS. HE HASN’T CONVINCED COMMUNITIES
OF THE RIGHTNESS OF HIS PIPELINES, OF THE PROPOSALS HE
SUPPORTS. HE HASN’T BEEN WORKING WITH
FIRST NATIONS ON THE KINDS OF PARTNERSHIPS THAT ARE NEEDED TO
DEVELOP OUR NATURAL RESOURCES. CANADA WILL ALWAYS HAVE AN
ELEMENT EVER NATURAL RESOURCES IN OUR ECONOMY.
THE JOB OF THE PRIME MINISTER IS TO GET THOSE RESOURCES TO
MARKET. IN THE 21ST MARKET, THAT MEANS
BEING SMART AND RESPONSIBLE ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT.
HIS INABILITY TO UNDERSTAND THAT IS EXACTLY WHY HE’S SO STRUGGLED
TO ACTUALLY GET OUR, CONE ME GROWING IN THE RIGHT WAY.
>>Prime Minister Harper: LET’S BE CLEAR ON WHAT THE RECORD IS.
NOT ONLY DO WE TAKE BOTH THE ECONOMY AND THE ENVIRONMENT
SERIOUSLY, WE’RE THE FIRST GOVERNMENT IN HISTORY TO REDUCE
GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS WHILE ALSO GROWING OUR ECONOMY.
>>Elizabeth May: THAT’S NOT TRUE.
>>Prime Minister Harper: WE DO IT THROUGH A SECTOR BY SECTOR
REGULATORY APPROACH WHERE WE REGULATE REDUCTIONS IN EMISSIONS
AND DO SO IN WAYS WE KNOW WILL NOT KILL JOBS.
>>Justin Trudeau: MR. HARPER, NOBODY BELIEVES YOU.
>>Prime Minister Harper: THE OTHER PARTY WANT A CARBON TAX.
>>Thomas Mulcair: MR. HARPER THOUGHT BY GUTTING OUR
ENVIRONMENTAL LAWS, SOMEHOW HE COULD GET OUR ENERGY RESOURCES
TO MARKET BETTER. HOW IS THAT WORKING OUT,
MR. HARPER? NONE OF THOSE PROJECTS HAVE
GOTTEN OFF THE DRAWING BOARD. IT’S NOT HARD TO UNDERSTAND WHY.
CANADIANS ACROSS THE COUNTRY WANT A CLEAR, THOROUGH, CREDIBLE
ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT PROCESS.
CANADA CAN BE A LEADER AROUND THE WORLD.
WE CAN PLAY A POSITIVE ROLE. WITH MR. HARPER, WE HAVE THE
WORST EVER ALL WORLDS. WE HAVE MORE CARBON POLLUTION
AND WE’RE A LAGGARD ON THE WORLD STAGE.
>>Elizabeth May: THE ONLY WAY CAN ALL DUE RESPECT, MR. PRIME
MINISTER, THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN TAKE CREDIT FOR THE EMISSIONS
DROP THAT ONLY OCCURRED IN 2008 AND ‘9 IS THE GLOBAL FINANCIAL
CRISIS. THAT’S THE ONLY THING.
THEY WOULD HAVE GONE UP. MORE THAN THEY HAVE NOW IF NOT
FOR THE ACADEMIES OF ONTARIO AND SHUTTING DOWN COAL-FIRED POWER
PLANTS. UNDER YOUR WATCH, GREENHOUSE
GASES HAVE BEEN RISING AND CARBON POLLUTION HAS BEEN RISING
AS SOON AS OUR ECONOMY BEGAN TO RECOVER IN 2009.
STRAIGHT UP LINE.>>Prime Minister Harper:
GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS HAS GONE DOWN AND THE ECONOMY HAS
GROWN. MR. MULCAIR SAYS THE PROJECTS
ARE GOING NOWHERE. THEY’RE ALL IN AN ENVIRONMENTAL
PROCESS THAT IS GOING FORWARD. WE MAKE SURE WE LOOK AT THAT
PROCESS AND MAKE DECISIONS. THE PROBLEM IS THE OTHER PARTIES
HAVE TAKEN POSITIONS, DEPENDING ON WHO THEY’RE SPEAKING TO IN
MR. TRUDEAU’S CASE, AGAINST EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE
PROJECTS. NOT JUST OIL PROTECTS.
>>Justin Trudeau: THAT’S NOT TRUE, MR. HARPER.
>>Prime Minister Harper: THEY HAVE OPPOSED THE GOVERNMENT’S
TAX INCENTIVES TO LIQUEFY NATURAL GAS THAT’S SUPPORTED NOT
ONLY BY THE PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA BY ABORIGINAL
COMMUNITIES AND A BROAD CROSS-SECTION.
>>Justin Trudeau: WE HAVE DONE NOTHING OF THE SORT, MR. HARPER.
MR. HARPER IS CONTINUING TO INVENT THE TAX AND QUITE
FRANKLY, CANADIANS ARE TIRED OF THAT KIND OF LEADERSHIP.
YOU HAVEN’T BEEN ABLE TO GET IT DONE ON THE ENVIRONMENT,
MR. HARPER. YOU HAVEN’T BEEN ABLE TO GET IT
DONE ON THE ECONOMY. YOU HAVEN’T BUILT THE KIND OF
BALANCE CANADIANS EXPECT. IF WE’RE GOING TO BUILD STRONG
COMMUNITIES, IF WE’RE GOING TO CREATE JOBS FOR OUR CHILDREN AND
GRANDCHILDREN WHILE PROTECTING OUR AIR, OUR WATER, OUR LAND, WE
HAVE TO ACTUALLY SHOW LEADERSHIP.
YOU HAVE BACKED FROM ANY SORT OF CONFIDENT.
>>Prime Minister Harper: 3% UNDER THE LIBERAL GOVERNMENT.
THEY WERE UP 30%.>>Paul: I HAVE A COUPLE QUICK
QUESTIONS. MR. HARPER, WILL CANADA MEET THE
STARINGETTES YOU WENT TO COPENHAGEN TO SET FOR 2020?
PRIME MINISTER STEPHEN HARPER AS YOU KNOW, WHAT HAPPENS WITH THE
TARGETS — I BELIEVE WE WILL. WE’RE SETTING A TARGET FOR 2030.
THAT’S WHAT EVERY COUNTRY IS DOING.
30% OVER 2005 LEVELS BY 2030. WE’RE GOING TO HAVE DO MORE
REGULATION. WE’RE COMMITTED TO DOING.
THERE WILL HAVE TO BE TECHNICAL TRANSFORMATION.
THAT’S WHY WE’RE INVERSTING A BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR IN
TECHNOLOGY PROJECTS.>>Paul: I COVERED THE 2008
CAMPAIGN, YOUR MINISTER AT THE TIME WAS PROMISING REGULATIONS
FOR THE OIL AND GAS SECTORS. WHEN ARE THEY COMING?
>>Prime Minister Harper: I’VE BEEN VERY CLEAR.
IT’S AN INTEGRATED NORTH AMERICAN SECTOR AND WE NEED
INTEGRATED NORTH AMERICAN PARTNERSHIPS.
I’VE TALKED TO THE U.S. AND MEXICO ABOUT THAT.
>>Justin Trudeau: WHEN HE FIRST CAME TO OTTAWA, HE WAS ALSO
ABOUT ANNOUNCING A NORTH AMERICAN ENERGY PARTNERSHIP AND
HE WAS GOING TO WORK WITH CANADA.
THAT WAS EIGHT YEARS AGO AND NOTHING HAS HAPPENED SINCE.
WHEN OBAMA JUST ANNOUNCED RECENTLY LANDMARK LEGISLATION
MOVING FORWARD ON CLIMATE CHANGE ACTION.
CANADA IS NOWHERE TO BE FOUND. THAT’S WHY THE LIBERAL PARTY IS
PROPOSING THAT WE WORK AGAIN ON A CONTINENTAL MODEL, WORK WITH
THE UNITED STATES AND MEXICO TO ADDRESS BOTH ENERGY AND THE
ENVIRONMENT IN A COMPREHENSIVE. >>Paul: MR. TRUDEAU, THERE’S A
BIT OF A PARADOX. SOMETIMES YOU SAY IF WE PUT THE
RIGHT PRICE ON CARBON AND HAVE THE RIGHT SOCIAL LICENCE, WE
COULD HAVE GOING HITHER ANDION. WE HEAR WE DON’T WANT THOSE
PIPELINES. DOESN’T MATTER WHICH GOVERNMENT.
>>Justin Trudeau: ENVIRONMENTAL GROUPS IN CANADA AND THE UNITED
STATES ARE SO CONCERNED ABOUT CANADIAN OIL IS BECAUSE
MR. HARPER HAS TURNED THE OILSANDS INTO THE SCAPEGOAT
AROUND THE WORLD FOR CLIMATE CHANGE.
HE HAS PUT A BIG TARGET ON OUR OILSANDS, WHICH ARE GOING TO BE
AN IMPORTANT PART OF OUR ECONOMY FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS TO COME,
ALTHOUGH WE DO HAVE TO GET BEYOND THEM.
HIS LACK OF LEADERSHIP ON THE ENVIRONMENT IS HURTING CANADIAN
JOBS AND CANADIAN RELATIONS WITH OTHER COUNTRIES.
>>Paul: TOM MULCAIR. >>Thomas Mulcair: GETTING OUR
RESOURCES TO MARKET IS CRITICAL, BUT MR. HARPER HAS GOTTEN THE
BALANCE WRONG. HE’S GUTTED OUR ENVIRONMENTAL
LEGISLATION, AND HE KNOWS THAT THAT’S HURTING JOBS IN OUR
RESOURCE SECTOR. IT’S HURTING OUR ECONOMY, AND
FRANKLY, IT’S HURTING CANADA’S INTERNATIONAL REPUTATION.
BUILDING ON MY EXPERIENCE AS AN ENVIRONMENT MINISTER AS A
BROUGHT IN OVERARCHING ENVIRONMENTAL LEGISLATION, I
WOULD ENFORCE THAT TYPE OF LEGISLATION, MAKE POLLUTERS PAY
FOR THE POLLUTION THEY CREATE. THESE PROJECTS WOULD GET LOOKED
AT WITH A THOROUGH AND CREDIBLE ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT
PROCESS. MR. HARPER AND TRUDEAU AGREE
WITH KEYSTONE X.L. THAT WILL EXPORT 40,000 JOBS.
>>Elizabeth May: MR. MULCAIR, WILL YOU STOP THE KINDER MORGAN
PIPELINE?>>Prime Minister Harper: AND HE
PARTY ARGUE AGAINST CANADIAN ENERGY EXPORTS.
A MOMENT AGO THEY TALKED ABOUT LANDMARK DECISIONS BY THE OBAMA
ADMINISTRATION IN THE UNITED STATES.
THEY’RE PUSHING AHEAD WITH NATIONAL REGULATIONS OF
COAL-FIRED ELECTRICITY. WE DID THAT IN CANADA THREE
YEARS AGO ACROSS SEVERAL PROFFERINS.
>>Justin Trudeau: DID NOT DO THAT.
IT WAS THE ONTARIO GOVERNMENT. YOU WERE BLOCKING THEM AT EVERY
TURN. >>Prime Minister Harper: THAT’S
THE REASON WE HAVE THE CLEANEST ELECTRICITY SECTOR IN THE WORLD.
>>Justin Trudeau: NOBODY BELIEVES YOU ON THE ENVIRONMENT.
>>Paul: THIS WOULD BE A GOOD TIME TO TAKE A BRIEF PAUSE
BECAUSE IT’S TIME FOR THE SECOND ROUND OF QUESTIONS ON THE SAME
SUBJECT. SAVE YOUR THOUGHTS AND YOU’LL
GET A CHANCE TO EXPRESS THEM. THIS QUESTION GOES TO TOM
MULCAIR. MR. MULCAIR, LET’S TALK ABOUT
PIPELINES. IT SEEMS LIKE THAT’S WHAT WE’RE
DOING TONIGHT. YOU SAID YOU OPPOSE NORTHERN
GATEWAY, KEYSTONE X.L. AND IN ITS CURRENT FORMATION, ENERGY
EAST. SHOULD WE ASSUME THAT MAJOR
ENERGY PROJECTS WILL BE ON HOLD FOR THE DURATION OF A MULCAIR’S
TERM IN OFFICE? GI BELIEVE A CLEAN ENVIRONMENT
AND STRONG ECONOMY GO HAND IN HAND.
WHAT WE SAID IN THE CASE OF NORTHERN GATEWAY AND I GOT A
CHANCE TO VISIT THE DOUGLAS CHANNEL, THERE WAS NO SAFE WAY
TO BRING THOSE LARGE SUPER CHANNELS INTO THAT NARROW
CHANNEL. THAT DOESN’T MAKE ANY SENSE.
WHAT I SAID IN THE CASE OF KEYSTONE X.L., PART OF
SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT IS CREATING THOSE VALUE-ADDED JOBS
IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY. YOU DON’T EXPORT THEM TO ANOTHER
COUNTRY. THAT 40,000 JOB FIGURE IS
MR. HARPER’S OWN FIGURE. MR. FLAHERTY AND HARPER SAID IT
WOULD CREATE 40,000 JOBS THERE. I WANT TO CREATE THOSE 40,000
JOBS HERE IN CANADA. REGARD TO ENERGY EAST, IT COULD
BE A WIN-WIN-WIN. BETTER PRICE FOR THE PRODUCERS,
MORE ROYALTIES FOR THE PRODUCING PROVINCE AND COULD HELP CREATE
THOSE JOBS IN CANADA AND IT COULD HELP WITH CANADA’S OWN
ENERGY SECURITY. HERE’S THE RUB.
MR. HARPER HAS SCRAPPED A SERIES OF IMPORTANT ENVIRONMENTAL LAWS,
STARTING WITH THE NAVIGABLE WATERS PR ACT, SPECIES
AT RISK HAS BEEN AFFECTED, FISHERIES.
INSTEAD OF DEALING WITH FIRST NATIONS ON A RESPECTFUL NATION
TO NATION BASIS, HE SPENDS $100 MILLION A YEAR FIGHTING
THEM IN COURT. WE’LL TAKE A DIFFERENT APPROACH.
WE’LL WORK WITH FIRST NATIONS. IT’LL BE A NEW ERA IN RELATIONS
WITH FIRST NATIONS, BECAUSE THEY ARE
THE RESOURCE RULESERS IN A LOT OF CASES.
MR. HARPER’S BUTTING HEADS APPROACH IS NOT WORKING.
>>Paul: IN AN INTERVIEW, YOU SAID FOR ENERGY USED TO MAKE
SENSE YOU HAVE TO INTERNALIZE THE PRICE OF CARBON IN THE PRICE
OF THE PROJECT. THAT SOUNDS LIKE A CARBON PRICE.
WOULD THAT BE FELT LIKE CONSUMERS AT THE GAS PUMP?
>>Thomas Mulcair: WITH REGARD TO SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT,
MAKING THE POLLUTER MAY, THAT’S A SUSTAINABLE RULE.
OTHERWISE YOU’RE MAKING EVERYBODY BEAR T USER PAY,
POLLUTER PAY. I BROUGHT IN OVER ARCHING
LEGISLATION IN QUEBEC AND WENT SO FAR AS TO CHANGE THE CHARTER
OF RIGHTS TO INCLUDE THE RIGHT TO A CLEAN ENVIRONMENT.
>>Paul: THANK YOU, MR. MULCAIR. THE FIRST LEADER TO RESPOND WILL
BE MR. TRUDEAU. >>Justin Trudeau: MR. MULCAIR
HAS BEEN SOMEWHAT INCONSISTENT ON PIPE LINES.
IN ENGLISH HE’LL SAY HE SUPPORTS THE ENERGY EAST PIPELINE AND IN
FRENCH HE SAYS IT’S OUT OF THE QUESTION.
THAT INCONSISTENCY ISN’T THE KIND OF LEADERSHIP WE NEED FOR
CANADA. YOU CAN’T SAY ONE THING IN
ENGLISH AND ITS OPPOSITE IN FRENCH.
WE NEED TO RESTORE PUBLIC TRUST IN OUR ABILITY AS A GOVERNMENT
TO CREATE A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD UPON WHICH POPROPONENTS OF A
PROJECT CAN ACQUIRE SOCIAL LICENCE AND GAIN THE PUBLIC
TRUST BY WORKING IN CONCERT WITH FIRST NATION, METIS NATION AND
INUIT PEOPLES TO MAKE SURE THE RIGHT PARTNERSHIPS ARE IN PLACE,
AND ALSO TO MAKE SURE THAT THE SCIENTIFIC OVERSIGHT AND RULES
AND GUIDELINES ARE PROTECTING CANADIANS.
THIS IS ABOUT NOT JUST DOING RIGHT BY OUR ENVIRONMENT BUT
ALSO DOING RIGHT BY FUTURE GENERATION S.
I HAVE THREE KIDS. I WANT MY KIDS TO GROW UP IN A
COUNTRY AS FRESH AND PURE AND CLEAN AS CANADA WAS AS WE
REMEMBER IT TO BE AND AS IT USED TO BE.
AND FOR THAT TO TAKE HOLD, WE HAVE TO HAVE A GOVERNMENT THAT’S
ACTUALLY DEMONSTRATING LEADERSHIP, THAT UNDERSTANDS
THAT YOU CANNOT MAKE A CHOICE BETWEEN WHAT’S GOOD FOR THE
ENVIRONMENT AND WHAT’S GOOD FOR THE ECONOMY.
IN THE 21 OF THE CENTURY, THEY GO TOGETHER.
INVERSTING IN CLEAN TECH AND JOBS, INVERSTING IN THE KINDS OF
POLLUTION REDUCTION AND EMISSIONS REDUCTIONS WE NEED IS
WHAT THIS COUNTRY HASN’T DONE WELL ENOUGH UNDER STEPHEN
HARPER.>>Prime Minister Harper:
MR. TRUDEAU YOU DO EXACTLY WHAT YOU ACCUSE MR. MULCAIR OF DOING.
YOU GO TO ONE PART AND YOU’RE FOR ENERGY AND THE OTHER PART
YOU’RE AGAINST IT.>>Justin Trudeau: YOUR FRIENDS
ATTACKED ME MERCILESSLY. >>Prime Minister Harper: ALL OF
THESE PARTIES HAVE OPPOSED ALL OF THESE PROJECTS BEFORE WE’VE
HAD ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENTS. THAT’S NOT THE WAY YOU DO
THINGS. YOU TAKE THE EVALUATION BASED ON
THAT AND YOU MOVE FORWARD. AND THAT’S TAKING THE JOBS AND
THE ECONOMY SERIOUSLY ALONG WITH THE ENVIRONMENT.
THE WAY YOU DON’T DEAL WITH THIS PROBLEM IS START IMPOSING CARBON
TAXES THAT WILL INEVITABLY. THEY RAISE MONEY FOR THE
GOVERNMENT. THEY HIT CONSUMERS AND HIT THEM
HARD. THE PRICE OF GAS GOES UP, HOME
HEATING, GROCERIES. YOU NAME IT.
THAT’S NOT THE WAY TO DEAL WITH IT.
>>Paul: MR. HARPER, ALBERTA AND BRITISH COLUMBIA AND QUEBEC HAVE
HAVE A PRICE ON CARBON RIGHT NOW.
>>Justin Trudeau: 86% OF THE CANADIAN ECONOMY.
>>Prime Minister Harper: DIFFERENT PROVINCES HAVE
DIFFERENT APPROACHES. I PREFER SOME.
FUNDING A TECH FUND IN THE PREVIOUS ALBERTA GOVERNMENT.
IT WAS NOT ABOUT TAKING MONEY OUT OF THE POCKETS OF CONSUMERS.
THE CARBON PRICE PROPOSALS PROPOSED BY THE OTHER PARTIES
WOULD INVOLVE TENS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF REVENUE FOR
GOVERNMENTS. >>Elizabeth May: NO.
>>Prime Minister Harper: A CARBON TAX IS NOT ABOUT REDUCING
EMISSIONS. IT’S A FRONT.
IT’S ABOUT GETTING REVENUE FOR GOVERNMENTS THAT CANNOT CONTROL
SPENDING.>>Elizabeth May: I HAVE TO TRY
TO EXPLAIN THAT THE REASON THE GREEN PARTY OPPOSED EVERY SINGLE
ONE OF THE PIPELINES THAT ARE PROPOSED, TO GET UNPROCESSED OIL
OUT OF THIS COUNTRY. MR. MULCAIR IS RIGHT.
EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE RAW BITUMEN UNPROCESSED OIL PIPELINE
SCHEMES IS ABOUT EXPORTING CANADIAN JOBS.
THAT’S YET GREEN PARTY KNOWS WE CAN OPPOSE EVERY SINGLE ONE EVER
THEM. I WOULD LIKE MR. MULCAIR’S
ANSWER CLEARLY. WILL YOU JOIN US AND FIGHT
AGAINST THE RISK I PIPELINE EXPANSION TRIPLING THE TRANSPORT
OF UNPROCESSED OIL?>>Thomas Mulcair: I SHARE THE
SAME CONCERNS WITH REGARD TO THE KINDER MORGAN PIPELINE.
THAT’S ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF WHAT MR. HARPER HAS DONE TO OUR
RULES. DID YOU KNOW THAT THE GROUPS
THAT ARE INVOLVED IN THOSE PROCESSES IN THOSE HEARINGS FOR
KINDER MORGAN ARE NOT EVENING ALLOWED TO CROSS-EXAMINE THE
COMPANY’S WITNESSES MUCH THAT’S A FUNDAMENTAL BREACH OF THE
RULES OF INTERNATIONAL JUSTICE. >>Elizabeth May: DO YOU OPPOSE
THE PIPELINE AND TANKERS?>>Thomas Mulcair: OPPOSING THEM
SYSTEMATICALLY IS WRONG.>>Elizabeth May: YOU JUST SAID
THE PROCESS THE FLAWED BUT WE SHOULD WAIT.
>>Thomas Mulcair: WE WOULD REPLACING THE SUPER TANKERS THAT
COME DOWN THE ST. LAWRENCE FROM QUEBEC CITY AND WOULD BE
REPLACING THE EXTREMELY DANGEROUS TRAINS GOING THROUGH
COMMUNITIES ALL ACROSS CANADA. THAT’S THE TYPE OF EVALUATION WE
SHOULD DO. IT’S AN OBJECTIVE EVALUATION IF
WE CAN GET BACK TO A CREDIBLE SYSTEM WHICH WE’VE LOST.
>>Justin Trudeau: CANADIANS KNOW WE NEED AN ACTUAL APPROACH
THAT GETS IT AND RESTORES THAT PUBLIC TRUST THAT WE HAVE SIMPLY
LOST OVER THE PAST YEARS. MR. HARPER HAS FAILED ON THE
ENVIRONMENT, AND THEREFORE HE’S FAILED ON THE ECONOMY.
MR. MULCAIR CONTINUES TO SAY DIFFERENT THINGS IN BOTH
LANGUAGES, BUT I WILL SAY THAT ON ENERGY EAST, I HAVE
CONSISTENTLY SAID THAT IT NEEDS TO GAIN SOCIAL LICENCE.
AND THE CONSERVATIVES IN NEW BRUNSWICK CRITICIZED ME ROUNDLY
WHEN THEY WERE IN GOVERNMENT. I DON’T KNOW WHAT MR. HARPER IS
TALKING ABOUT. >>Elizabeth May: ENERGY EAST IS
STILL ABOUT — >>Thomas Mulcair: YOU SAID THE
OPPOSITE IN AN INTERVIEW IN RIMOUSKI LAST FALL.
IT’S EASY TO FIND THAT QUOTE ONLINE.
>>Elizabeth May: I’M STILL NOT SURE WHERE YOU STAND ON KINDER
MORGAN. THEY PLAN TO PUT THREE TIMES AS
MANY TANKERS MOVING OUT VANCOUVER LOADED WITH DILUTED
BITUMEN. IT’S VERY HAZARDOUS RISKY
MATERIAL. WE KNOW REGARDLESS OF WHAT KIND
OF PROCESS IT GOES THROUGH, IT SHOULD NOT GO AHEAD.
IT MUST BE STOPPED.>>Thomas Mulcair: THIS IS PART
OF MY TRACK RECORD THAT PEOPLE ARE TREE TO CONSULT.
WHEN IT WAS THE RABASKA LIQUEFIED GAS PLANT, I DIDN’T
EVEN WANT TO LOOK AT IT BECAUSE OF THE DANGER OF THOSE TANKERS
IN THE ST. LAWRENCE AND THE SAME TO THE NORTHERN PIPELINE.
WITH REGARD TO THESE OTHER PROJECTS, WE HAVE LOOK AT THEM
OBJECTIVELY WITH THOROUGH, CREDIBLE.
>>Elizabeth May: YOU TAKE NO POSITION?
>>Thomas Mulcair: I’M TAKE THE POSITION YOU CAN STUDY THESE
PROJECTS. MS. MAY SAYS YOU CAN SAY NO TO
THEM ALL IN ADVANCE. MR. HARPER IS SAYING YOU CAN SAY
YES TO ALL OF THEM IN ADVANCE. WE WANT A THOROUGH CREDIBLE
PROCESS. >>Prime Minister Harper: WE
HAVE A SCIENTIFIC EXPERT EVALUATION BEFORE WE PROCEED.
THAT’S HOW THE GOVERNMENT HAS HANDLED THESE PROJECTS.
MR. MULCAIR HAS ALREADY RULED OUT A NUMBER OF PROJECTS BEFORE
THEY EVEN WENT THROUGH THE PROCESS, AND IS POSITIONING
HIMSELF TO BE AGAINST OTHERS AS WELL.
>>Elizabeth May: I’M AN INTERVENOR.
>>Prime Minister Harper: THE N.D.P. IS ALWAYS FOR PROJECTS
UNTIL THEY FACE ONE AND THEN THEY OPPOSE IT.
>>Thomas Mulcair: I HAVE A TRACK RECORD THAT PEOPLE ARE
FREE TO LOOK AT. WHEN I WAS THE MINISTER OF THE
ENVIRONMENT, WE SOMETIMES HAD TOUGH PROJECTS.
THERE WAS A PROJECT VERY FARING THE BRIDGE AT THE 25 BETWEEN
LAVAL AND MONTREAL. LOTS OF OPPOSITION TO IT.
WE WENT THROUGH A THOROUGH EVALUATION PROCESS.
WE PUT DOWN 18 CONDITIONS IN THE ORDER AND COUNCIL APPROVING THAT
PROJECT. THE PUBLIC THAT HAD BEEN OPPOSED
TO IT WAS ON-SIDE BY THE END OF IT, BECAUSE THEY KNEW THEY COULD
HAVE CONFIDENCE IN US RESPECTING THE ENVIRONMENT.
RESPECT FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND A STRONG ECONOMY ARE NOT
OPPOSITES. THEY GO HAND IN HAND.
>>Prime Minister Harper: YOU OPPOSED NORTHERN GATEWAY BEFORE
THE EVALUATION AND YOUR PARTY OPPOSED LIQUEFIED NATURAL GAS
PROJECTS IN BRITISH COLUMBIA, WIDELY SUPPORTED AND IMPORTANT
TO THE ENERGY DIVERSEFICATION.
>>Elizabeth May: WHERE WAS YOUR COMMITMENT THAT YOU WOULD END
FOSSIL FUEL? YOU JUST CRITICIZE THE OTHER
PARTIES TO NEW FOSSIL FUELS. YOU MADE A COMMITMENT GLOBALLY.
YOU’VE NOT ELIMINATED THE SUBSIDIES THAT GO TO THE
OILSANDS. NOW YOU’VE ADDED NEW SUBSIDYIES
THAT GO TO LIQUEFIED NATURAL GAS THAT IS FRACKED GAS THAT HAS THE
SAME CARBON FOOTPRINT AS GOAL. >>Prime Minister Harper:
NEITHER OF THESE THINGS IS TRUE. THE GOVERNMENT HAS ELIMINATED
SUBSIDIES TO THE OILSANDS AND SECTOR AND WE’RE PROVIDING
ACCELERATED CAPITAL COSTS TO PROVIDE CLEAN LIQUEFIED NATURAL
GAS TO HELP THAT INDUSTRY THAT IS NOT JUST VITAL TO THE BRITISH
COLUMBIA BUT THE ENERGY SECTOR IN THIS COUNTRY AND WE’RE DOING
SO WHEN I HAVE TO REMIND PEOPLE THE ENERGY SECTOR HAS
SIGNIFICANT CHALLENGES. >>Justin Trudeau: ONE OF THE
THINGS WE’VE SEEN RIGHT ACROSS-THE-BOARD FROM THIS
GOVERNMENT IS A MISUNDERSTANDING OF THE ROLE OF GOVERNMENT AROUND
PROTECTING OUR FUTURE AND THINKING LONG TERM.
WE HAVE AT THE LIBERAL PARTY A VERY CLEAR PLAN TO REDUCE
CLIMATE CHANGE EMISSIONS BY GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS AND
FIGHT CLIMATE CHANGE BY WORKING WITH THE PROVINCES.
86% OF OUR ECONOMY HAS COMMITTED TO PUT A PRICE ON CARBON WITH
THE ACTIONS OF FOUR DIFFERENT PROVINCE HAVE TAKEN UP THE
LEADERSHIP THIS GOVERNMENT HAS NOT SHOWN.
THE LIBERAL PARTY IS COMMITTED TO WORKING WITH THOSE PROVINCES
TO MAKE SURE A REDUCTION IN THOSE EMISSIONS.
>>Paul: I HAVE SO MANY QUESTIONS AND SO MANY OF YOU
HAVE STUFF TO SAY. WE’LL HAVE TO WRAP UP THIS
SEGMENT ON ENERGY AND THE ENVIRONMENT.
I WANT TO REMIND OUR VIEWERS WHO ARE WATCHING ON TV, IF YOU WANT
TO ENGAGE ON SOCIAL MEDIA AND HAVE YOUR SAY ON TONIGHT’S
DEBATE. YOU CAN DO SO ON OUR FACEBOOK
PAGE. YOU CAN TALK TO OTHER VOTERS.
AS FOR THIS, IT’S TIME FOR ANOTHER BREAK.
STAY TUNED. ♪♪>>A LIVE LOOK AT THE BURGUNDY
LINE IN MONTREAL AS CANADIANS CONTINUE HEARING THE ISSUES THAT
MATTER FROM COAST-TO-COAST. FIRST CityNews CONTINUES WITH
IN-DEPTH ANALYSIS AS THE FIRST DEBATE OF THE ELECTION SEES AN
INTENSIFIES. AND WELCOME BACK.
AND WE ARE JOINED BY KEVIN CHAN, THE PUBLIC POLICY MANAGER OF
FACEBOOK AND WE’VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT SOME OF THE POLLS WE HAVE.
THE LATEST IS ABOUT A CARBON TAX THAT WE’VE BEEN DISCUSSING AND
SURPRISING NUMBERS, RESOUNDING NUMBERS WITH IT.
>Reporter: WE HAVE AN OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF
CANADIAN WHO IS TOOK THE POLL ON FACEBOOK WHO SAID THAT THEY
BELIEVE THERE SHOULD BE A PRICE PUT ON CARBON.
>>THAT’S SURPRISING WHEN YOU OVERLAY IT WITH SOME OF THE
NUMBERS WE’VE SEEN OVER THE LAST FEW MONTHS.
>>Reporter: WHEN WE LOOK AT MAP OF CANADA, WE’VE SEEN — WE
LOOKED AT THE 338 DIFFERENT RIDINGS IN CANADA, AND WE’VE
LOOKED AT WHAT ARE THE KEY ISSUES THAT CANADIANS CARE ABOUT
THE MOST. THIS IS THE MAP OF THE
PREFERENCES FOR ENERGY AND THE ENVIRONMENT.
>>DARK SPOTS ARE IN ALBERTA.
WE HAVE A SPECIAL PANEL OF ANALYSTS DELVING DEEP INTO THIS
ISSUES AND WE’LL SEND IT TO CYNTHIA.
>>THE GENTLEMEN WITH ME KNOW THE KNOWS AND OUTS OF CANADIAN
POLITICS. WE HAVE BUREAU CHIEF OF 680
NEWS, JOHN GEDDES AND JUSTINLING, VICE PARLIAMENTARY
CORRESPONDENT. WHO IS WINNING THIS DEBATE SO
FAR AND WHY?>>WE HAVE A BIT OF A SPLIT.
JUSTIN TRUDEAU SOUNDED REALLY CLEAR AND CONCISE.
HE WAS THE WINNER OF THE FIRST ROUND.
THOMAS MULCAIR THE SECOND ROUND: HE HAD A SERIES OF CLEAR
INDICTMENTS OF THE PRIME MINISTER.
IT’S A BIT OF A WASHOUT.>>JOHN GEDDES, YOUR THOUGHTS.
>>TOM MULCAIR HAD A CHALLENGE NOT PLAYING TO THAT PUGNACIOUS
PERSONALITY. I THINK HE’S MANAGED THAT SO
FAR. HASN’T BEEN GOADED INTO ANY
TOUGH EXCHANGES. MOST OF THE REALLY TOUGH TALKING
OVER EXCHANGES HAVE COME BETWEEN TRUDEAU AND HARPER AND TOM
MULCAIR MUST BE HAPPY WITH THAT.>>INITIATED BY TRUDEAU AS WELL.
>>I THINK I’LL HAVE TO AGREE WITH JUSTIN.
I THINK THERE’S A SPLIT BETWEEN MULCAIR AND JUSTIN.
I THINK HIS BOXING PHOTO OP SHOWED THIS MORNING WHEN HE CAME
OUT SWINGING AT THE OTHER LEADERS.
MULCAIR DIDN’T SEEM TO GET HIS POINT ACROSS AT FIRST.
AS IT WENT ALONG, IT HE RELAXED.>>I THOUGHT HARPER HASN’T BEEN
AS AGGRESSIVE AS I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT.
WE’LL BE BACK SHORTLY WITH MORE FROM OUR PANEL.
AS WE RETURN TO THE DEBATE, HELLO TO OUR VIEWERS ACROSS THE
COUNTRY. HERE’S TORONTO STUDENTS AT
SENECA COLLEGE. ♪♪ HALFWAY POINT THE MACLEAN’S
NATIONAL LEADERS DEBATE. THE NEXT TOPIC IS THE ECONOMY.
IT’S SURPRISING HOW MUCH TIME WE’VE SPENT IN RECENT YEARS
DEBATING CANADIAN DEMOCRACY. THE SENATE IS A MESS.
CAN WE CLEAN IT UP? SHOULD WE SHUT IT DOWN?
IS THAT POSSIBLE? THERE ARE QUESTIONS HOW CLOSELY
OUR ELECTIONS REFLECT THE WILL OF THE VOTERS.
IS IT TIME TO REPLACE THE ELECTORAL SYSTEM?
HOW CAN WE FIX THE HOUSE OF COMMONS?
AND ALL THE APPOINTMENTS THE GOVERNMENT MAKES IN OFFICE.
THERE’S A LOT TO DISCUSS HERE. ♪♪>>Paul: OUR FIRST QUESTION ON
THIS TO ELIZABETH MAY. MS. MAY, YOU’VE CALLED THE
GOVERNMENT WE HAVE NOW AN EELECTRICITIORAL DICTATORSHIP.
THIS WILL BE WON AND LOST UNDER THE CURRENT ELECTORAL SYSTEM.
MIGHT THE GREEN PARTY HELP RE-ELECT THIS GOVERNMENT?
>>Elizabeth May: WHEN I REFER TO IT AS AN ELECTED
DICTATORSHIP, IT’S A REFERENCE TO WHAT’S HAPPENED, A CREEPING
GROWTH OF POWER IN THE PRIME MINISTER’S OFFICE THAT GOES
ALONG WITH LESS OF A ROLE FOR INDIVIDUAL MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT
DOING THEIR JOB. ONLY JOB IS THAT FOUND IN THE
CONSTITUTION, CL IS TO REPRESENT YOUR CONSTITUENCIES.
SO WE NEED TO ACTUALLY REVISIT PARLIAMENTARY DEMOCRACY,
UNDERSTAND THIS ELECTION ISN’T ABOUT ELECTING A PRIME MINISTER.
WE DON’T DO THIS IN THIS COUNTRY.
WE ELECT MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT. THEIR JOB IS TO FIND THE
GOVERNMENT THAT WILL HOLD THE CONFIDENCE OF THE HOUSE SO WE
CAN WORK FOR CANADIANS. AS FAR AS GREENS BEING CONCERNED
ABOUT THIS, NOT AT ALL. WHEN WE’VE HAD SUCCESS, AND MY
ELECTION IN SAANICH-GULF ISLANDS.
IN BRITISH COLUMBIA DAVID WEAVER AND PETER BAKER.
ALL OF US GOT ELECTED BY DRIVING UP VOTER TURNOUT.
SO INSTEAD OF FIXATING ON THIS SPLITTING THE VOTE PROBLEM, VOTE
SPLITTING, WE NEED TO FOCUS ON THE REAL PROBLEM WHICH IS 40% OF
CANADIANS IN THE LAST NUMBER OF ELECTIONS HAVEN’T VOTED AND VOTE
ABANDONING IS A MUCH BIGGER PROBLEM THAN VOTE SPLITTING.
WE’LL DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO REACH OUT TO YOUNG PEOPLE, FIRST
NATIONS AND THOSE DISADVANTAGED BY THE CONSERVATIVES FAIR
ELECTIONS ACT TO GET OUT A HIGHER LEVEL OF VOTE SO THAT
GREENS CAN WIN IN THE CURRENT SYSTEM BUT SO THAT CANADA WINS
WITH A HEALTHIER DEMOCRACY?>>Paul: YOU SAID WE DON’T ELECT
A PRIME MINISTER AND THAT’S TRUE.
WE HAD A COALITION CRISIS IN 2008.
ARE WE HEADED TOWARDS THAT ARBITRAGE IF THERE’S NO
MAJORITY?>>Elizabeth May: I CAN’T TELL
YOU HOW COMMITTED GREEN M.P.s WILL BE TO WORKING WITH OTHER
PARTIES, WORKING ACROSS PARTY LINES TO INSURE WE GO FROM A
PRECARIOUS PERHAPS 2-YEAR MINORITY PARLIAMENT TO A STABLE,
PRODUCTIVE, EFFECTIVE PARLIAMENT, BECAUSE YOU LOOK AT
REALLY GREAT PARLIAMENTS IN THIS COUNTRY, AND I REFER VIEWERS
BACK TO LESTER B. PEARSON WHERE THE SMALL GROUP OF N.D.P.ERS
UNDER LEWIS AND DIEFENBAKER AND LESLIE PEARSON DELIVERED OUR
SAFETY NET. >>Paul: JUSTIN TRUDEAU, YOU GET
TO RESPOND. >>Justin Trudeau: ELIZABETH MAY
MAKES A NUMBER OF GREAT POINTS AND ONE I HEAR ALL ABOUT THE
COUNTRY WHEN TALKING TO YOUNG PEOPLE AND PEOPLE ARE
DISILLUSIONS AND DISENCHANTED WITH OUR POLITICAL SYSTEM,
WHETHER IT’S THE NEGATIVITY, THE ATTACK, THE DIVISIVENESS THAT
TENDS TO BE AWARDED ALL TOO OFTEN WITH ELECTORAL SUCCESS
THAT ENDS UP MAKING IT MORE AND MORE DIFFICULT TO GOVERN.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT REALLY FRUSTRATES A LOT OF PEOPLE IS
WHEN THEY SEE POLITICIANS PANDER, WHEN THEY SAY ONE THING
IN ONE PART OF THE COUNTRY AND A DIFFERENT THING IN ANOTHER PART
OF THE COUNTRY. ONE OF THE THINGS,
UNFORTUNATELY, MR. MULCAIR HAS BEEN DOING QUITE REGULARLY IS
TALKING IN FRENCH ABOUT HIS DESIRE TO REPEAL THE CLARITY ACT
TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO BREAK UP THIS COUNTRY TO
ACTUALLY DO SO. IN DOING SO, HE’S DISAGREEING
WITH THE SUPREME COURT JUDGMENT THAT SAID THAT ONE VOTE IS NOT
ENOUGH TO BREAK UP THE COUNTRY. ANYONE WHO WANTS TO BECOME PRIME
MINISTER SHOULD NOT ONLY SAY DIFFERENT THINGS IN FRENCH AND
IN ENGLISH BUT SHOULD MAKE SURE THEY SIDE WITH THE SUPREME COURT
WHEN IT COMES TO UNITY OF OUR COUNTRY.
>>Paul: MR. MULCAIR, YOU GET TO ANSWER THAT.
>>PAUL, I HAVE FOUGHT FOR CANADA MY WHOLE LIFE.
I FOUGHT IN THE 1980 REFERENDUM.
I FOUGHT IN THE 1995 REFERENDUM. I SPENT 13 YEARS IN THE NATIONAL
ASSEMBLY IN QUEBEC CITY. I WAS ALWAYS CONSISTENT FIGHTING
FOR CANADA. NOW I CAN UNDERSTAND IT’S A BIT
FRUSTRATING TO THE LIBERALS THAT FOR THE FIRST TIME IN A FULL
GENERATION, QUEBECERS VOTED MASSIVELY FOR A FEDERALIST PARTY
AND WANTED NOTHING TO DO WITH THE LIBERALS.
AND IT’S EASY TO UNDERSTAND WHY. YOU JUST HEARD T THE ONLY TWO
PEOPLE I KNOW IN CANADA WHO ARE ANXIOUS TO START TALKING ABOUT
SEPARATISM AGAIN ARE JUSTIN TRUDEAU AND GILLES DUCEPPE.
MR. TRUDEAU HAS AN OBLIGATION IF HE WANTS TO TALK ABOUT THIS
SUBJECT TO COMECOME CLEAN WITH
CANADIANS. WHAT’S YOUR NUMBER?
>>Justin Trudeau: I DON’T QUESTION YOUR PATRIOTISM.
>>Thomas Mulcair: WHAT’S YOUR NUMBER?
>>Justin Trudeau: I’LL GIVE YOU A NUMBER.
NINE. MY NUMBER IS NINE.
NINE SUPREME COURT JUDGE JUSTICES SAID ONE VOTE IS NOT
ENOUGH TO BREAK UP THIS COUNTRY. BUT THAT IS MR. MULCAIR’S
POSITION. HE WANTS TO BE PRIME MINISTER OF
THE THIS COUNTRY AND HE’S CHOOSING TO SIDE WITH THE
SEPARATIST MOVEMENT IN QUEBEC AND NOT WITH THE SUPREME COURT
OF CANADA. AND HE’S BRINGING THIS UP.
IT’S HIS POLICY TO REPEAL THE ACT.
HE QUIETLY PUT FORWARD A. >>Thomas Mulcair: IT’S REALLY
SECRET WHEN YOU PUT IT IN THE HOUSE OF COMMONS.
>>Justin Trudeau: HE LOUDLY ANNOUNCED IT IN FRENCH AT THE
ST. JEAN BAPTISTE NAME. >>Paul: A MARGIN YOU THINK
WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE. >>Justin Trudeau: THE SUPREME
COURT SAID THAT MR. MULCAIR’S ORDER IS NOT THE RIGHT ONE.
>>Thomas Mulcair: HE WON’T GIVE A NUMBER.
>>Justin Trudeau: IT’S TO BE SET IN THE CONTEXT OF THE NEXT
REFERENDUM.>>Prime Minister Harper: IF I
CAN, PAUL, I’M NOT GOING TO QUESTION MR. MULCAIR’S POSITION
AS A LONG-TIME FEDERALIST. WHY BRING UP DEBATE OF THE
CLARITY ACT OTHER THAN TO SATISFY THE SEPTEMBER R.
SEPARATIST ELEMENT. WE JUST HAD QUEBECERS MASSIVELY
REJECT THAT. NOBODY WANTS TO RAISE IT.
WHY WOULD WE TALK ABOUT HOW WE CAN BEST BREAK UP THE COUNTRY
WHEN IN FACT QUEBECERS DON’T WANT TO DO THAT.
I DON’T UNDERSTAND IT.>>Thomas Mulcair: ONE THING
MR. HARPER AND I DO AGREE ON. >>Paul: SINCE THERE’S A DEGREE
OFFY DEBATE, LET ME PUT THE QUESTION TO THE PRIME MINISTER.
AS A PREFORM M.P., YOU SUPPORTED A 50% MARGIN ON SOVEREIGNTY.
I DON’T BELIEVE I’VE HEARD YOU GIVE A NUMBER OR REVISIT THAT AS
PRIME MINISTER. >>Prime Minister Harper: YOU
HAVEN’T HEARD ME REVISIT IT BECAUSE I DON’T THINK IT SHOULD
BE REVISITED. WHAT HAPPENED IN 1995, AND WE
DON’T WANT THAT TO HAPPEN AGAIN WHERE THEY TRIED TO GET 50% PLUS
ONE BY INVALIDATING A BUNCH OF FEDERALISTS VOTES.
WE HAVE TO LOOK CAREFULLY AT THAT IF WE EVER HAVE THAT
PROBLEM AGAIN. I THINK QUEBECERS HAVE FIRMLY
REJECTED. THAT THEY’VE GONE THROUGH
40 YEARS OF A DEBATE THAT’S DONE NOTHING BUT DAMAGE THAT
PROVINCE.>>Thomas Mulcair: THEN WHY
RAISE THE ISSUE. >>Thomas Mulcair: THE PRIME
MINISTER AND I AGREE THAT YES MEANS YES.
THAT’S WHAT HE PUT IN HIS BILL. TO SAY OTHERWISE AS MR. TRUDEAU
IS DOING WHILE STILL REFUSING TO GIVE HIS NUMBER IS A DANGEROUS
POLITICAL GAME. I’LL TELL YOU WHY.
IF YES DOESN’T MEAN YES, PEOPLE COULD DECIDE TO VOTE YES AS A
WAY OF SENDING A SIGNAL. THAT’S WHY IT’S A DANGEROUS
POLITICAL GAME AND IT’S NOT A SERIOUS WAY TO TALK ABOUT A
SERIOUS SUBJECT. I’M SO PROUD AND HAVE CONFIDENCE
IN QUEBECERS WHO HAVE TWICE REJECTED SEPARATION.
I FOUGHT IN BOTH OF THOSE REFERENDUMS.
>>Prime Minister Harper: YOU’RE TRYING TO THROW GASOLINE ON A
FIRE THAT’S NOT EVEN BURNING. >>Thomas Mulcair: MR. TRUDEAU
HAS LOST CONFIDENCE AND THINKSES IT’S GOOD FOR LIBERALS TO
SCRATCH THAT OLD WOUND. >>Justin Trudeau: YOU ANNOUNCED
IT. MY ISSUE IS THE SUPREME COURT’S
POSITION THAT SAYS THE NUMBER SHOULD BE SET IN THE CONTEXT OF
THE NEXT REFERENDUM IF THAT EVER COMES.
AND YOUR PLAY TO TRY AND STOKE UP THAT SEPARATIST VOTE FOR THE
N.D.P. BY ANNOUNCING AT ST. JEAN BAPTISTE SIX WEEKS AGO THIS IS
CONTINUING TO BE YOUR POLICY IS NOT WORTHY OF A PRIME MINISTER.
NO PRIME MINISTER SHOULD MAKE IT EASIER FOR QUEBEC.
>>Paul: LET ELIZABETH MAY TALK.>>Elizabeth May: ISN’T IT
IRONIC THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE IS TO HAVE A CIVIL CONVERSATION.
IT’S BEEN OUR HALLMARK FOR GENERATIONS WE CAN DISAGREE
WITHOUT BEING DISAGREEABLE. I’D LIKE US TO BE ABLE TO TALK
ABOUT WHAT WE DO ABOUT FIXING PARLIAMENT.
THAT’S AN URGENT CRISIS AND I DON’T BELIEVE THAT WE WANT TO
GET OURSELVES MIRED INTO ANY THREAT OF SEPARATISM.
>>Paul: LET’S DO THAT. THE LIBERAL PARTY HAS A PROJECT
OF ELECTORAL REFORM MR. TRUDEAU SAYS HE WANTS THE NEXT ELECTION
TO BE LAST UNDER NEXT PAST THE POST AND DOESN’T WANT ANY
REFERENDUM ON REFORM. MR. HARPER SAYS WHETHER CHANGE
GO THROUGH A REFERENDUM PROCESS. WHY DO YOU THINK THAT SHOULD
HAPPEN?>>Prime Minister Harper: IT’S A
FUNDAMAM CHANGE TO THE WAY OUR POLITICAL SYSTEM WOULD WORK.
WE HAVE A WESTMINSTER SYSTEM. THEY DON’T ELECT COALITIONS THAT
MAKE UP THE GOVERNMENT LATER. THIS HAS COME UP BEFORE.
IT WAS THE SUBJECT OF A REFERENDUM IN ONTARIO AND PRINCE
EDWARD ISLAND AND BRITISH COLUMBIA.
I HAVE NOT FOUND CANADIANS WHO WANT TO MAKE THIS FUNDAMENTAL
CHANGE. WHENEVER CANADIANS ARE ASKED,
THEY REJECT IT. WE KNOW THE RULES.
LET’S PLAY UNDER THE RULES. >>Elizabeth May: THAT’S NOT THE
CASE. >>Thomas Mulcair: THAT’S
INTERESTING TO HEAR HIM SAY THAT AGAIN.
HE REFUSED TO TALK TO CANADIANS ABOUT IT.
WE STOOD UP STRONG IN THE HOUSE OF COMMONS AND OPPOSED AND SHUT
DOWN TRAVEL BY PARLIAMENTARY COMMITTEES AND USED EVERY TOOL
IN OUR TOOL BOX TO STOP HIM FROM TRYING TO WALK AWAY WITH THE
NEXT ELECTION BY JIGGING THE RULES.
HE’S MADE IT HARDER FOR WHOLE CLASSES OF CANADIANS TO VOTE.
THAT’S NOT JUST OUR OPINION. ALL OF THE EXPERTS WHO HAVE
LOOKED AT HIS UNFAIR ELECTIONS ACT HAVE SAID THE SAME THING.
IF YOU’VE BECOME SUCH A KEEN FAN OF MAKING SURE NO SINGLE PARTY
CAN CHANGE THE RULES, WHY DID YOU DO THAT WITH YOUR UNFAIR
AELECTIONS ACT.>>Prime Minister Harper: THE
FAIR ELECTIONS ACT THE BIGGEST CHANGE IS VOTERS HAVE TO SHOW
I.D. TO DEMONSTRATE WHO THEY ARE.
THERE’S 40 PIECES OF I.D. THEY CAN SHOW.
CANADIANS OVERWHELMING SUPPORT THAT.
>>Elizabeth May: THAT CHANGE WAS MADE IN 2007.
IT WASN’T MADE — IT WAS ALREADY MADE BEFORE YOU INTRODUCED THE
FAIR ELECTIONS ACADEMY. >>Prime Minister Harper: SO
IDENTIFICATION BEFORE YOU VOTE. I THINK VOTERS SHOULD BE WORRIED
ABOUT POLITICAL PARTIES WHO WOULD NOT DO THAT.
>>Justin Trudeau: THIS IS THE PERFECT EXAMPLE OF HOW
MR. HARPER CREATES FEARS OF MASSIVE VOTER FRAUD WHEN HIS
PARTY WAS PRESSED ON EXAMPLES OF PEOPLE FRAUDULENTLY VOTING, THEY
WEREN’T ABLE TO PROVE ANYTHING. SOME OF HIS M.P.s MISTAKENLY
TESTIFIED TO THINGS THEY ACTUALLY HADN’T SEEN.
THE FACT OF THE PARTY IS THE JOB OF ELECTIONS CANADA AND WHAT WE
SHOULD LOOK AT AS A GOAL AS A COUNTRY IS TO TRY TO ENCOURAGE
AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE TO VOTE, AND THE CHANGES MR. HARPER
HAS MADE TO THE ELECTIONS ACT MAKE IT MORE DIFFICULT FOR
STUDENTS, FOR ABORIGINAL AND INDIGENOUS THE COMMUNITIES, FOR
MANY SENIORS. >>Elizabeth May: HOMELESS
PEOPLE. MUCH HARDER.
>>Justin Trudeau: WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THOSE VOICES ARE BEING
HEARD BECAUSE THOSE VOICES ARE NOT JUST MARGINALIZED IN VOTING
RIGHTS BUT IN SO MANY ASPECTS OF SOCIETY AND MR. HARPER
APPARENTLY WANTS TO KEEP IT THAT WAY.
>>Prime Minister Harper: HOW WOULD BE ABLE TO IDENTIFY VOTER
FRAUD IF WE CAN’T EVEN IDENTIFY WHO VOTERS ARE.
THIS IS A COMMON SENSE REFORM SUPPORTED BY 90% OF CANADIANS.
WE MADE SURE THERE’S I.D. THAT’S APPLICABLE FOR EVERY CATEGORY OF
CANADIANS. THAT’S WHY THAT POLICY IS
STRONGLY SUPPORTED. THIS IS AN IMPORTANT REFORM.
>>Paul: THE FAIR ELECTIONS ACT TURNED OUT TO BE FULL OF
SURPRISE. IT ALLOWS YOU TO EXTEND THE
ELECTION CAMPAIGN TO 11 WEEKS AND PRORATE EXPENSES TO MATCH.
DID YOU HAVE THIS KIND OF LONG ELECTION CAMPAIGN IN MIND FOR
TWO YEARS?>>Prime Minister Harper: PAUL,
ALL OF US HERE AGREED TO AN ELECTION DEBATE THIS WEEK MONTHS
AGO. EVERYBODY KNEW AN ELECTION WOULD
BE ON. THE OTHER PARTIES CAMPAIGNING.
IF WE’RE GOING TO BE UNDER AN ELECTION CAMPAIGN, WE SHOULD BE
UNDER THE RULES OF THE ELECTION ACT.
>>Justin Trudeau: WHY ARE YOU PUTTING 24 SUSSEX UP ON YOUR
WEBSITE.>>Paul: WE’LL CONTINUE WITH A
NEW ROUND OF QUESTIONS. THE QUESTION GOES TO PRIME
MINISTER STEPHEN HARPER. YOU SAID YOU WOULDN’T NAME
SENATORS IF THEY’RE ELECTED. NOW YOU’RE PROMISING YOU WON’T
NAME SENATORS AT ALL. YOU BLAME THE COURTS FOR
BLOCKING REFORM. BUT THE COURTS AND THE
PROFFERINS DIDN’T NAME THE SENATORS IN TROUBLE.
YOU DID. DO YOU OWE CANADIANS AN APOLOGY
FOR PUTTING MIKE DUFFY, PAMELA WALLIN AND BRAZEAU IN THE
SENATE?>>Prime Minister Harper: I DID
NOT NAME ALL OF THE SENATORS IN TROUBLE.
THE SENATE HAS BEEN AN INSTITUTION WITH THESE KINDS OF
PROBLEMS FOR 150 YEARS. FOR THE FIRST TIME WE HAVE A
SENATE WITH CLEAR RULES AND IS ENFORCING THOSE RULES.
I WILL SAY THIS. MY ROLE IS NOT TO APOLOGISE FOR
THE BAD ACTIONS OF OTHERS. WHEN BAD ACTIONS RISE, THE ROLE
OF THE LEADER IS TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY AND HOLD PEOPLE
ACCOUNTABLE. THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT WE’RE DOING.
>>Paul: YOUR POLICY NOW IS NOT TO NAME SENATORS ESSENTIALLY
INDEFINITELY. THERE’S ALREADY A COURT CASE
BEFORE A JUDGE IN BRITISH COLUMBIA ON THE ASSERTION THAT
WON’T WORK, YOU CAN’T EMPTY OUT THE SENATE OVER TIME BECAUSE —
HAVE YOU SOUGHT CONSTITUTIONAL DEVICE ON WHETHER YOU CAN GO
AHEAD WITH YOUR NEW POLICY?>>Prime Minister Harper:
ABSOLUTELY. YOU CAN’T EMPTY IT ENTIRELY.
I HAVE LEFT 22 SEATS VACANT ALREADY.
THE PRIME MINISTER HAS THE POWER TO NAME THOSE OR NOT NAME THOSE
IN THE SENATE. WHAT WE’VE BEEN ABLE TO ACHIEVE
IS BRING THE COST OF THE SENATE DOWN.
THEY HAVE FALLEN BY SOME $6 MILLION.
I THINK THOSE SENATE VACANCIES WILL FORCE MOST PROVINCES WHO BY
THE WAY, ALMOST ALL OF THEM WHO HAVE OPPOSED SENATE ELECTIONS
AND SENATE REFORM TO COME CLEAN WITH THAT AND EXPLAIN WHY THOSE
SENATORS AREN’T BEING ELECTED. I GAVE THEM A CHANCE.
THEY WON’T ELECT THEM, AND WHY THEY WON’T ABOLISH.
OVER TIME, PUBLIC PRESSURE WILL FORCE THIS ISSUE TO BE RESOLVED,
AND FRANKLY, I THINK THE LONGER THERE ARE MORE VACANCY, IT WILL
RAISE QUESTIONS ABOUT WHY WE CONTINUE WITH THE SENATE WE DO.
>>Paul: DO YOU THINK ONE GOOD WAY TO COME UP WITH IDEAS WITH
THE PROVINCE IS TO MEET WITH THE PREMIERS TO DISCUSS THIS ISSUE?
>>Prime Minister Harper: NO. I HAVE TALKED TO PROVINCES
INDIVIDUALLY OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME.
I KNOW WHAT THE POSITIONS OF THE PROVINCES ARE.
THERE’S NOWHERE NEAR CONSENSUS ON EITHER REFORM OR ABOLITION.
I THINK OPENING UP CONSTITUTIONAL DISCUSSIONS IS
THE WRONG PRIORITY FOR THE COUNTRY.
OUR PRIORITIES ARE THE ECONOMY AND SECURITY.
IF THE PROVINCES REALLY BELIEVE THE SENATE SHOULD BE FIXED, TELL
US HOW. THEY HAVE OPPOSED THAT.
IF THEY DON’T, ABOLISH. >>Paul: IT THE FIRST RESPONSE
GOES TO TOM MULCAIR. >>Thomas Mulcair: WELL, PAUL, I
GUESS YOU COULD SAY THERE ARE BROKEN PRESENTLIESES AND THEN
THERE ARE BROKEN PRESENTLIESES. MR. HARPER PROMISED SOLEMN ME TO
CANADIANS THAT HE WOULD NEVER NAME AN APPOINTED SENATOR.
HE’S GONE ON TO BREAK A RECORD AND NAME 59 OF THEM, AND THE
LIST OF CONSERVATIVE SENATORS UNDER RCMP INVESTIGATION
CONTINUES TO GROW. I’M LOOKING FOR A MANDATE ON
OCTOBER 19 TO PUT AN END TO THIS MESS ONCE AND FOR ALL.
CANADIANS DESERVE BETTER. WE THINK THERE ARE THREE MAIN
THINGS WE CAN DO WITH REGARD TO OUR INSTITUTIONS.
THE FIRST TO SOMAKE SURE EVERY VOTE COUNTS, OPEN UP PARLIAMENT,
FOR EXAMPLE, GET RID OF THE SECRECY OF THE INTERNAL
COMMITTEE THAT LOOKS AT HOW TAXPAYERS’ MONEY IS SPENT.
WE THINK TAXPAYERS HAVE A RIGHT TO SEE HOW EVERY SINGLE DOLLAR
IS SPENT IN THAT SECRET COMMITTEE INSIDE THE HOUSE.
AND BITE WAY, WE DO WANT TO GET RID OF THE SENATE.
ABOLITION, PURE AND SIMPLE. MR. TRUDEAU THINKS WE NEED
BETTER SENATORS. I THINK WE NEED ONLY FORMER
SENATORS.>>Paul: MR. TRUDEAU.
>>Justin Trudeau: MR. HARPER SAID IT.
HIS PLAN ON SENATE REFORM IS TO TELL THE PROVINCES STOP ME
BEFORE I APPOINT AGAIN. THE FACT IS HE MADE A SOLEMN
PROMISE NEVER TO APPOINT A SENATOR, AND HE BROKE THAT
PROMISE ON HIS VERY FIRST DAY AS PRIME MINISTER BY APPOINTING
MICHAEL FORTIER TO THE SENATE. THEN HE BROKE THAT PROMISE 58
MORE TIMES. SO I CAN UNDERSTAND WHY NOBODY
WOULD BELIEVE HIM WHEN HE SAYS HE’S NOT GOING TO APPOINT
ANYMORE SENATORS RIGHT NOW. MR. MULCAIR WANTS TO OPEN UP THE
CONSTITUTION. THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS WHEN
THE PRIME MINISTER, THE NEXT PRIME MINISTER EVENTUALLY SITS
DOWN WITH THE PREMIERS TO ACTUALLY TALK ABOUT THINGS, I
CAN TELL YOU, CANADIANS ARE GOING TO WANT THE PRIME MINISTER
AND THE PREMIERS TO TALK ABOUT JOBS TO TALK ABOUT CLIMATE
CHANGE, TO TALK ABOUT HEALTH CARE, NOT TO TALK ABOUT HOW TO
OPEN UP THE CONSTITUTION TO TRY AND IMPROVE THE SENATE.
THE FACT THAT THE LIBERAL PARTY ACTUALLY TOOK CONCRETE ACTION TO
REMOVE SENATORS FROM OUR CAUCUS TO MAKE SURE ANY FUTURE
APPOINTMENTS ARE DONE IN A TRANSPARENT NONPARTISAN WAY TO
REFORM THE SENATE WITHOUT DIVING INTO CONSTITUTION.
>>Paul: ELIZABETH MAY. >>Elizabeth May: WITH ALL DUE
RESPECT, WHOEVER GAVE YOU THE SOYS THAT ANNOUNCING NOT
APPOINTING SENATORS IS CONSTITUTIONAL.
THE SINGLE BIGGEST SCANDAL WAS NOT THE MISSPENDING BUT THE
ILLEGITIMATE NOTION THAT THE PRIME MINISTER’S OFFICE HAS THE
RIGHT TO TELL ITS CONSERVATIVE SENATORS TO VOTE.
FOR THE FIRST TIME, A BILL PASSED IN THE HOUSE OF COMMONS,
A DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED HOUSE PASSED CLIMATE
ACCOUNTABILITIABILITY. WHEN IT WENT TO THE SENATE, THE
CONSERVATIVE SENATORS WERE INSTRUCTED TO KILL IT AT THEIR
FIRST OPPORTUNITY. THIS IS THE FIRST TIME IN THE
HISTORY OF THIS COUNTRY THAT APPOINTED SENATORS HAVE KILLED A
BILL WITHOUT A SINGLE DAY OF STUDY IN THE SENATE OF CANADA.
>>Paul: MR. HARPER, DID YOU ASK THE SENATORS TO STOP THAT BILL?
>>Prime Minister Harper: WHAT WE ALWAYS ASK SENATORS TO DO, WE
CANNOT FORCE THEM TO DO ANYTHING.
WE ASKED THEM TO SUPPORT THE PARTY’S POSITION.
THE PARTY DIDN’T SUPPORT THAT PARTICULAR BILL.
BUT I WOULD SAY IS THIS. LOOK AT THE FACTS OF THE
PARLIAMENT UNDER THIS GOVERNMENT.
THIS IS OFTEN NOT REPORTED. WE HAVE BACKBENCHERS VOTING
FREELY THAN IN DECADES. WE HAVE MORE PRIVATE MEMBERS
LEGISLATION THAT’S GONE THROUGH PARLIAMENT THAN MULTIPLE
GOVERNMENTS BEFORE US. THAT’S THE REALITY OF THE
SITUATION.>>Justin Trudeau: MORE THAN ALL
PREVIOUS PRIME MINISTERS COMBINED.
>>Thomas Mulcair: I WAS THERE WITH JACK LAYTON IN FRONT OF THE
SENATE THE DAY THOSE SENATORS HAD THE TEMERITY TO BLOCK A BILL
THAT HAD BEEN ADOPTED BY THOSE PEOPLE WHO HAD BEEN ELECTED BY
THE CANADIAN VOTING PUBLIC. MS. MAY IS RIGHT.
THAT WAS THE FIRST TIME IN 75 YEARS, AND ON WHAT SUBJECT?
THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE FACING FUTURE GENERATIONS.
I DON’T WANT MY GRANDCHILDREN TO HAVE TO BEAR THE BURDEN FOR
WRONG-HEADED CHOICES TODAY. MR. HARPER HAS JUST ADMITTED
THAT HE ASKED THE SENATORS TO VOTE TO KILL A BILL, ADOPTED BY
THE HOUSE OF COMMONS. WHAT GREATER PROOF OF A LACK OF
RESPECT FOR OUR FUNDAMENTAL DEMOCRACY THAN ASKING UNELECTED
PEOPLE TO DEFEAT A BILL VOTED UPON AND ENACTED BY THE ELECTED
PARLIAMENT.>>Prime Minister Harper: LET’S
BE VERY CLEAR. WE ASKED SENATORS TO STICK TO
MR. THEIR PRINCIPLES.
PRIVATE MEMBERS BILLS HAS BEEN KILLED.
>>Elizabeth May: NEVER. >>Prime Minister Harper: I
DON’T HAVE TO SAME SENATORS. >>Justin Trudeau: 59 TIMES YOU
BROKE YOUR PROMISE 59 TIMES.>>Paul: CAN I.
>>Prime Minister Harper: CAN I LAY OUT THE RECORD ON THAT.
FOR NEARLY THREE YEARS, WE LEFT SOME 20 VACANCIES IN THE SENATE,
INVITED THE PROVINCES TO FILL THOSE THROUGH ELECTIONS.
ONLY ONE DID. FINALLY TO GET GOVERNMENT
LEGISLATION MOVING IN THE SENATE, I SAID IN 2008 THEY
WOULD APPOINT SENATORS AND WE’VE DONE SO.
NOW THAT WE DON’T NEED TO, WE HAVE STOPPED.
BUT MR. TRUDEAU, YOU TALK ABOUT TRUTH.
YOU JUST SAID THERE ARE NO LIBERAL SENATORS.
GO ON THE PARLIAMENTARY WEBSITE. THERE ARE 29 LIBERAL SENATORS
THERE WORKING FOR THE LIBERAL PARTY OF CANADA.>>Paul: YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT
SENATE ABOLITION. YOUR PREMIER HAS TOLD MACLEAN’S
MAGAZINE THAT NO PREMIER WILL SUPPORT ABOLITION GIVEN THE
CONSENT IS USUALLY REQUIRED. IS THAT NOT A PROBLEM?
>>Thomas Mulcair: I WAS WITH PHILIPPE COUILLARD A FEW WEEKS
AGO AND A STAND THAT I UNDERSTAND.
WE WOULD TAKE A DIFFERENT APPROACH TO DEAL WITH THE
PROVINCES. THIS ISSUE OF SENATE ABOLITION
BEGINS WITH A MANDATE. IT’S NOT BECAUSE IT’S BEEN THERE
FOR A LONG TIME THAT WE CAN’T GET RID OF T THAT WOULD BE
SITTING DOWN WITH THE PROVINCES AND TERRITORIES.
MR. HARPER HAS REFUSED TO ATTEND A SINGLE MEETING OF THE
FEDERATION SINCE BECOMING PRIME MINISTER.
I’LL HOLD TWO MEETINGS A YEAR ON A ROTATING BASIS.
I’VE COME OUT OF PROVINCIAL POLITICS.
I’M NOT AFRAID TO SIT DOWN WITH MY PROVINCIAL COUNTERPARPT —
COUNTERPARTS INSTEAD EVER DICTATING A BIG CUT.
ON SENATE REFORM, I WOULD ASK FOR A MANDATE ON OCTOBER 19 AND
START THE HARD WORK THAT I’VE ALREADY STARTED IN FACT IN
OPPOSITION OF MEETING WITH THE PREMIERS TO TRY TO GET THEM
ONBOARD TO GET RID OF THIS UNDEMOCRATIC, UNACCOUNTABLE
INSTITUTION THAT IS A RELIC FROM OUR COLONIAL PAST.
>>Prime Minister Harper: IT WAS YOUR POSITION FOR ALL THE YEARS
YOU WERE IN THE GOVERNMENT OF QUEBEC.
>>Thomas Mulcair: MR. HARPER IS PROVING MY POINT.
IT’S A LONG-STANDING POSITION SINCE THE UNILATERAL SPA
TRIATION OF THE CONSTITUTION IN ’82.
EVERY GOVERNMENT SAID THAT. THAT’S WHY I’M NOT HESITANT TO
SIT DOWN WITH MY FRIENDS AND FORMER COLLEAGUE PHILIPPE
COUILLARD AND WORK ON THIS ISSUE.
I BELIEVE THE ONLY WAY TO TEAL WITH THE SENATE IS TO GET RID OF
IT. $1 BILLION HAS BEEN SPENT ON THE
SENATE ON MR. HARPER’S WATCH. HE’S DONE NOTHING ABOUT
ABOLITION. HE’S DONE NOTHING ABOUT REFORM.
CAN YOU IMAGINE HOW MANY CHILDCARE SPACES WE COULD HAVE
CREATED WITH $1 BILLION, MR. WELLS?
>>Paul: ELIZABETH MAY HAS NOT HAD MUCH OF A CHANCE TO ADDRESS
THESE QUESTIONS. >>Elizabeth May: I APPRECIATE
THAT. WE CHANGE THE WAY WE MAKE
DECISIONS TO CREATE A SPACE WHERE WE CAN WORK TOGETHER IS TO
CREATE A COUNCIL OF CANADIAN GOVERNMENTS THAT WOULD INCLUDE
BUILDING ON THE COUNCIL. REPRESENTATION FROM MUNICIPAL
AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS AS WELL AS FIRST NATIONS, METIS AND INUIT.
AROUND THE SAME TABLE. WE NEED TO DEAL WITH THE SENATE.
IT’S NOT MY TOP PRIORITY BECAUSE IT’S HARD.
IT’S GOING TO REQUIRE OPENING UP THE CONSTITUTION.
WE THINK WE SHOULD AMEND THE AMENDING FORMULA SO THAT
CANADIANS CAN CHANGE OUR CONSTITUTION BY REFERENDUM
INSTEAD OF THE ANTIQUATED FORMULA WE’RE SADDLED WITH
TODAY. >>Paul: MR. TRUDEAU, THE PRIME
MINISTER CALLED YOU OUT AND SAID THERE’S A LOT OF LIBERAL
SENATORS. IS HE PART OF YOUR CAUCUS?
>>Justin Trudeau: NO. WE’VE RELEASED THEM.
SOME HAVE CHOSEN TO CALL THEMSELVES LIBERALS.
MR. HARPER SAID HE DIRECTED THOSE SENATORS TO VOTE ALONG THE
PARTY LINES, I HAVEN’T DONE THAT, AND I NO LONGER HAVE THE
PURE TO DO THAT OVER THE SENATORS WHO ARE NEW — WHO WERE
FORMERLY IN THE LIBERAL CAUCUS. WE FEEL THE DISCUSSIONS TAKEN IN
THE UPPER HOUSE SHOULD BE INDEPENDENT OF THE POLITICAL
MANOEUVRINGS THAT MR. HARPER. >>Prime Minister Harper:
MR. TRUDEAU IN THE SENATE, LIBERAL SENATORS VOTE THE
LIBERAL PARTY LINE EVERY SINGLE TIME.
>>Justin Trudeau: THAT’S NOT TRUE.
>>Thomas Mulcair: TO LISTEN TO MR. TRUDEAU, YOU WOULD HAVE
SOMEHOW BELIEVE THAT THE LIBERAL SENATORS HAVE SOMEHOW CHANGED.
HERE’S THE REALITY. DURING THE MOST RECENT
PROVINCIAL ELECTION IN NAVIA SCOTIA, THE NEW PREMIER HAD ALL
OF THE SENATE LIBERALS UP ON STAGE TO THANK THEM FOR DOING
HIS FUNDRAISING. THE BAG MEN OF THE LIBERAL PARTY
ARE STILL IN THE SENATE. >>Elizabeth May: LARRY CAMPBELL
ENFORCED ME IN MID RIDING. >>Paul: WE HAVE TO SAY BYE-BYE.
STAY WITH US FOR THE FINAL ROUND AND FOR CLOSING REMARKS.>>WE HAVE MOVED OUR VIEWING
PARTIES WEST AND ARE TAKING A LIVE LOOK NOW AT UNIVERSITY OF
BRITISH COLUMBIA, PACKED TONIGHT AS MORE CANADIAN YOUTHS TUNE IN
THE DEBATE AND ISSUES THAT IMPACT OUR NATION.
WELCOME BACK. WE APPROACH THE FINAL LEG OF
THIS DEBATE. JUSTIN, I’M GOING TO START WITH
YOU AGAIN. WHAT ARE YOU THINKING SO FAR ON
ROUND TWO?>>I THINK MULCAIR WAS STRONG IN
THE SENATE. HE HAD A COUPLE ISSUES WHERE HE
COULD HAVE BEEN A LOT STRONGER. EVENTUALLY HE GOT INTO HIS
GROOVE AND WENT AFTER THE PRIME MINISTER.
THE PRIME MINISTER LOOKS WEAK ON DEMOCRATIC REFORM.
I THINK HE LOOKED WEAK THERE. ELIZABETH MAY BROUGHT HERSELF
INTO THIS DEBATE BY KNOWING HER NUMBERS AND KNOWING WHAT SHE WAS
GOING TO SAY AHEAD OF TIME. HE GOT THERE AND MADE HER POINT.
I DON’T KNOW IF SHE CONNECTS WITH CADE NANS.
AT LEAST SHE GOT INTO THAT DEBATE.
>>I AGREE WITH THE POINT ELIZABETH MAY.
I THINK SHE’S LOOKED STRONG. I THINK THE PRIME MINISTER HAD
ME WORRIED. HE CAME OUT SCUFFED UP.
HE WASN’T BATTERED AND BRUISED.>>WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT HIS
ANSWERS IT’S NOT HAS JOB AS A LEADER TO APOLOGISE FOR THE
ACTION OF OTHERS. >>THAT’S A TOUGH QUESTION THAT
PAUL ASKED. DO YOU NEED TO APOLOGISE.
HE GAVE AN AWKWARD ANSWER. WHAT WAS HE SUPPOSED TO SAY?
>>I THINK HARPER WAS REALLY GOOD ON THE QUESTION OF
SEPARATION WHEN THAT CAME IN AND TRUDEAU AND MULCAIR WAS GOING
AFTER EACH OTHER. THAT WAS PROBABLY ONE OF HIS
STRONGER POINTS. THEN HE WAS ON THE HOT SEAT
AGAIN TAKING A LOT OF ATTACKS. WE’VE HEARD THAT’S NOT TRUE SO
MANY TIMES. I THINK TRUDEAU AS WELL HAS
PERFORMED WELL, ESPECIALLY ON THE ISSUE OF THE SENATE SAYING
BROKEN PROMISE MANY TIMES.>>CANADIANS ARE PIPING UP ABOUT
THESE VERY ISSUES RIGHT NOW ON FACEBOOK.
ROGER PETERSON WITH HOW YOU’VE BEEN RESPONDING.
>>Reporter: KEVIN CHAN THE HEAD OF PUBLIC POLICY FROM FACEBOOK.
WE’VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THE POLLS GOING ON LIVE ALL NIGHT.
THE LATEST ONE TRUDEAU IN FAVOUR OF THAT.
LOOK AT THE NUMBER. >>THIS IS A CLEAR PREFERENCE.
QUESTION 83% POLLED SAYING WE
SHOULD CHANGE THE SYSTEM. >>HOW IMPORTANT THIS HAS BEEN
TO PEOPLE IN THE LAST FEW MONTHS.
>>OFTEN TIMES PEOPLE WILL SAY THAT GOVERNANCE DOESN’T MATTER.
WE SEE A CLEAR PREFERENCE. SECOND HIGHEST TOPIC DISCUSSED.
>>AN IMPORTANT ITEM THAT’S BEEN DISCUSSED.
WE’LL HEAR MORE ABOUT IT OVER THE NEXT FEW MONTHS.
WE’LL HEARD OVER TO GORD MARTINEAU.
>>BE SURE TO TUNE IN IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE DEBATE AS
WE EXPLORE ALL THE ISSUES ON A BE IN OF FRONTS FROM HOW
CANADIANS ARE RESPONDING IN PERSON AND ONLINE AND TO OUR
PERSON OF EXPERTS AND WE’LL HEAR FROM PAUL WELLS ABOUT BEING IN
THE MIDDLE OF ALL THE ACTION. THAT’S WHERE WE’RE GOING NOW.
THE FOUR PARTY LEADERSER HERE IN TORONTO TO TAKE THE ON FINAL
ISSUE. ♪♪>>Paul: WELCOME BACK ONCE AGAIN
TO THE MACLEAN’S NATIONAL LEADERS DEBATE.
OUR FINAL TOPIC FOR TONIGHT’S DEBATE IS ON FOREIGN POLICY IS
SECURITY.>>IF THERE EVER WAS A
DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE CHOICES, CANADA MAKES ABROAD AND THE WAY
WE LIVE AT HOME, IT VANISHED LAST OCTOBER.
VOTERS INSPIRED BY INTERNATIONAL TERRORIST MOVEMENTS MURDERED
CANADIAN FORCES SOLDIERS IN OTTAWA AND ST. JEAN’S.
CANADIAN SECURITY IS BEING CHALLENGED IN IRAQ AND SYRIA.
OUR COMMITMENTS TO OUR ALLIES ARE TESTED IN EASTERN EUROPE.
IN OUR FINAL SEGMENT, WE’LL DISCUSS CANADA IN THE WORLD.>>Paul: OUR FIRST QUESTION ON
THIS GOES TO TOM MULCAIR. MR. MULCAIR, CANADIANS ARE
RELUCTANT TO SEND SOLDIERS IN COMBAT.
THAT HAVE ALWAYS BEEN WILLING TO DEFEND CANADIAN VALUES BY FORCE
WHEN NECESSARY. THE N.D.P.’S HISTORIC RELUCTANCE
ABOUT SENDING TROOPS INTO COMBAT HAS NEVER BEEN TESTED IN POWER
AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL. WOULD AN N.D.P. GOVERNMENT EVER
SEND TROOPS OR JETS INTO COMPAT AND IF SO, WHERE?
>>Thomas Mulcair: YES, WE HAVE SHOWN THAT WILLINGNESS IN THE
PAST WHEN IT WAS BASED ON A U.N. MANDATE AS IN THE CASE OF LIBYA.
WE AGREED ON THE FIRST TWO VOTES OF THAT AND THEN WE WITHDREW
WHEN THEY CHANGED THE NATURE OF THE MISSION THEY WERE ASKING US
TO SUPPORT. PRIME MINISTERS CONSULTED ME ON
SENDING IN CANADIAN AIR LIFT CAPABILITY AND MA-MALI AND WE
AGREED WITH THAT. BEFORE I WOULD SEND IN OUR BRAVE
MEN AND WOMEN AND RISK THEIR LIVES, I’M ON I’LL THINK ABOUT
THEM AND THINK ABOUT THEIR FAMILIES AND MAKE SURE WE HAVE A
CLEARLY DEFINED AND MISSION AND CLEARLY DEFINED EXIT STRATEGY.
THAT’S WHY WITH THE LATEST ATTACK, WE SAID NO WAY.
THIS IS NOT SOMETHING CANADA SHOULD BE INVOLVED IN.
EVERYONE AGREES WITH THE IMPORTANCE OF FIGHTING
TERRORISM. THE QUESTION IS WHEN DO WE PUT
CANADIAN TROOPS IN HARM’S WAY. WE THOUGHT IN THAT CASE IT WAS
INAPPROPRIATE.>>Paul: ALL OF CANADA’S
TRADITIONAL ALLIES, THE UNITED STATES UNDER A DEMOCRATIC, THE
UNITED KINGDOM AND FRANCE SUPPORT THE MISSION AGAINST
ISIS. IS THAT NOT A BROAD ENOUGH
CONSENSUS?>>Thomas Mulcair:
MULTILATERALISM HAS ALWAYS BEEN A CANADIAN APPROACH.
YOU’VE JUST NAMED A FEW NATO ALLIES.
BUT THIS IS NOT A NATO MISSION. THIS IS AN AMERICAN-LED MISSION.
THIS IS NOT A UNITED NATIONS MISSION UNLIKE THE MISSION I
JUST REFERRED TO IN LIBYA A COUPLE YEARS AGO.
WE THINK WE ARE TAKING A WRONG-HEADED APPROACH HERE.
WE KNOW THAT A LOT OF THE HORRORS WE’RE SEEING ARE THE
RESULT OF THE LAST MISGUIDED WAR.
I THINK CANADA GOT IT RIGHT WHEN WE SAID WE WOULD STAY OUT OF THE
2003 WAR. WE’RE SEEING THE RESULT OF THAT
WRONG HEADED DECISION NOW. >>Paul: THANK YOU, MR. MULCAIR.
THE FIRST RESPONSE GOES TO ELIZABETH MAY.
>>Elizabeth May: WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, THAT SECOND VOTE WHERE
EVERY SINGLE NEW DEMOCRATIC PARTY VOTED FOR THE CONTINUED
BOMBARDMENT OF LIBYA TOOK PLACE AFTER THE MISSION HAS CHANGED.
U.N. SANCTION AND APPROVAL WAS THE RESPONSIBILITY TO PROTECT
CIVILIANS IN QADDAFI’S LIBYA. AT THE MOMENT WE AS A COUNTRY,
CANADA SAID OH, THE REBEL FORCES, THEY’RE THE LEGITIMATE
NEW GOVERNMENT OF LIBYA. WE DID THAT KNOWING FULL WELL
THOSE REBEL FORCES INCLUDED al-QAEDA.
I WAS THE ONLY MEMBER THAT VOTED AGAINST.
IT IT WAS CLEAR TO ME WE SHOULD TAKE THAT CEASEFIRE AND SEE IF
IT WOULD WORK. THE WAREHOUSES FULL OF ARMAMENTS
THAT BELONGED TO QADDAFI AND TRIPOLI ENDED UP BEING EMPTIED
OUT BY HOODLUMS AND TERRORISTS AND ENDED UP DESTABILIZINGEING
MALI AND SOME OF THOSE WEAPONS ENDED
UP IN THE HANDS EVER ISIS. THE QUESTION IS HOW COULD WE AS
A COUNTRY THAT’S ALWAYS STOOD FOR PEACE KEEPING AND
CEASEFIRES, WHY DID EVERY N.D.P. MEMBER VOTE TO CONTINUE
BOMBARDMENT WHEN EVERYTHING I JUST SAID WAS ALREADY CLEAR?
>>Thomas Mulcair: THE ANSWER TO THAT IS WE’RE ALWAYS GOING TO
EVALUATE ON WHETHER IT WAS A UNITED NATIONS MISSION AND THE
N.D.P. DID NOT VOTE FOR IT. THAT SHOWS THE SUBTLETY.
MS. MAY IS OPPOSED TO EVERY SINGLE USE OF OUR MILITARY.
>>Elizabeth May: THAT’S NOT TRUE.
>>Paul: MR. HARPER IS IN FAVOUR OF ANY USE OF OUR MILITARY.
>>Paul: JUSTIN TRUDEAU, WHILE I’M DOING THIS TOUR OF PARTIES
NOT IN GOVERNMENT AND WHEN THEY WOULD USE FORCE.
DO YOU THINK WE NEED A UNITED NATIONS MANDATE BEFORE WE SEND
TROOPS ABROAD?>>Justin Trudeau: NO.
IT’S A CLEAR INDICATOR WE SHOULD BE INVOLVED BUT OTHERS THAT WE
SHOULDN’T. I SUPPORTED OUR ENGAGEMENT IN
KOSOVO. THE FACT IS I’M PROUD TO HAVE
AMONG US IN OUR GREAT TEAM OF CANDIDATES THE FORMER COMMANDER
OF THE ARMY IN AFGHANISTAN. WHERE I DISAGREE WITH THE PRIME
MINISTER IS ON CURRENT MISSION IS THAT CANADA SHOULDN’T HAVE A
ROLE AGAINST ISIL. I BELIEVE WE SHOULD.
I DISAGREE ON THE APPROACH THAT HE’S HAD.
UNFORTUNATELY, MR. HARPER AS WE HAVE WELL SEEN HAS NOT SEEN A
WAR HE HASN’T WANTED TO GET INVOLVED IN.
THAT WAS VERY CLEAR WHEN HE SUPPORTED THE GEORGE W. BUSH’S
WAR INTO IRAQ WHERE HE SAID IN 2003 THAT CANADA SHOULD BE
INVOLVED. THE FACT IS CANADA SHOULD HAVE A
ROLE TO PLAY. BUT IT NEEDS TO BE THE RIGHT ONE
THAT’S ACTUALLY GOING TO HELP THE LOCAL FORCES FIGHT AND WIN
THE WAR FOR THEMSELVES. THAT’S WHY I’VE CONSISTENTLY
SUPPORTED TRAINING MISSIONS NOT COMBAT MISSIONS.
>>Paul: TWO OF YOUR OPPONENTS UNITED STATES HAVEN’T SEEN A WAR
YOU DON’T LIKE THAT. WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT?
>>Prime Minister Harper: I DON’T THINK THIS GOVERNMENT HAS
GOTTEN INVOLVED IN MANY MILITARY ACTIONS.
WE’RE INVOLVED IN ONE NOW AGAINST ISIS, THE SO-CALLED
ISLAMIC STATE. IT’S NOT TRUE WHAT MR. MULCAIR
SAYS. ALL OUR NATO ALLIES SUPPORT
THIS. VIRTUALLY ALL OF THE COUNTRIES
OF THE MUSLIM REGION SUPPORT THIS.
THE REASON THEY SUPPORT THIS IS BECAUSE THIS ORGANIZATION HAS
BECOME THE GLOBAL NERVE CENTRE OF A VIOLENT JIHADIST MOVEMENT
THAT IS SLAUGHTERING HUNDREDS EVER THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE IN IRAQ
AND SYRIA BEFORE WE INTERVENED BUT IS A THREAT TO THE ENTIRE
REGION AND A THREAT TO THE ENTIRE GLOBE.
IT HAS SINGLED OUT CANADA AND CANADIANS BY NAME AND HAS
DEMONSTRATED ABILITIES TO CARRY OUT ATTACKS IN COUNTRIES LIKE
OURS. IT WOULD BE ABSOLUTELY FOOLISH
FOR US NOT TO TO GO AFTER THIS GROUP BEFORE THEY COME AFTER US.
LOOK, I’M VERY PROUD OF THE JOB THE MEN AND WOMEN ARE DOING
TAKING THIS ON IN CONCERT WITH OUR ALLIES AND I THINK IT’S VERY
WIDELY SUPPORTED BY CANADIANS BECAUSE THEY UNDERSTAND IT’S
COMMON SENSE.>>Paul: THIS SOUNDS LIKE A
QUESTION ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES PUT TO YOU.
IF NOT ISIL, WHO?>>Justin Trudeau: THE LIBERAL
PARTY HAD BEEN VERY CLEAR. WE SUPPORT BEING PART OF THE
COALITION AGAINST ISIL. WE DISAGREE THAT A BOMBING
MISSION IS THE RIGHT WAY TO GO ABOUT IT.
WHEN A PRIME MINISTER CHOOSES TO SEND MEN AND WOMEN OF THE
CANADIAN FORCES INTO HARM’S WAY, THERE HAS TO BE A CLEAR PLAN OF
EXPECTATION AND SUCCESS AND A REASONABLE JUSTIFICATION OF THE
SPECIFIC ACTION CANADA IS TAKING.
NOT JUST THESE PEOPLE ARE BAD, THEREFORE WE NEED TO DO
SOMETHING. IT DOESN’T REALLY MATTER WHAT.
IT MEANS WE HAVE TO BE THOUGHTFUL, BECAUSE OUR ALLIES
AND QUITE FRANKLY CANADIANS EXPECT US TO BE THOUGHTFUL ABOUT
OUR APPROACH WHEN WE ENGAGE IN INTERNATIONAL.
THE OTHER THING IS IF WE WERE GOING TO SEND OUR TROOPS
OVERSEAS, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WE ARE PROPERLY TAKING CARE OF
THEM WHEN THEY COME HOME. AND MR. HARPER HAS FAILED OUR
VETERANS BY NICKEL AND DIMING THEM, BY NOT GIVING THEM THE
SERVICE, THE HELP THAT THEY NEED, AND IT’S SOMETHING THAT WE
SHOULD ALL BE ASHAMED OF THAT THIS GOVERNMENT THAT LIKES TO
WRAP ITSELF IN THE FLAG IS ACTUALLY NOT CARING FOR THOSE
PEOPLE WHO HAVE FOUGHT, INJURED THEMSELVES, AND IN MANY CASES
DIED UNDER THAT FLAG. >>Prime Minister Harper: THIS
GOVERNMENT HAS MADE RECORD INVERSTMENTS IN VETERANSMENT
WE’RE SPENDING 35% MORE ON THE AVERAGE VETERAN THAN WE WERE
WHEN WE CAME TO OFFICE. LET ME GO BACK TO THE CENTRAL
QUESTION OF THE ISIS MISSION. WHAT WE’RE DOING IN ISIS IS
PRECISELY THE MISSION OUR INTERNATIONAL ALLIES THINK WE
SHOULD BE DOING. THESE ARE THE PRIORITIES.
HIT THEM IN THE AIR AND HELP TO TRAIN PEOPLE, PARTICULARLY THE
KURDS ON THE GROUND. MR. TRUDEAU HAS PROVIDED NO
RATIONAL REASON FOR WHY ME IS AGAINST THAT OTHER THAN TO
SIMPLY SLAG THE MILITARY WHEN ASKED WHY THEY SHOULDN’T GO
THERE. THIS IS A MISSION SUPPORTED BY
CANADIANS AND OUR ALLIES AND IT’S IN THE VITAL SECURITY OF
INTEREST OF THIS COUNTRY. IF YOU’RE PRIME MINISTER, YOU
HAVE TO BE ABLE TO MAKE THESE KINDS EVER DECISIONS.
>>Elizabeth May: IT’S A TRICKY AREA.
IT’S MURKY AND THE QUESTION OF WHO IS OUR ENEMY AND WHO IS OUR
FRIEND. WE’RE BOMBING IN SYRIA.
WE DON’T HAVE POSITION FROM al-ASSAD.
WE SAID WE WOULD WAIT FOR HIS PERMISSION.
THAT’S PRETTY CHANGE. HE’S A BUTCHER.
THE CIVIL WAR IN SYRIA HAS CAUSED MASSIVE HUMANITARIAN
CRISIS. 4 MILLION SYRIANS HAVE TAKEN
REFUGE IN OTHER COUNTRIES MUCH WE DIDN’T STAND BACK AND DO
ANYTHING. THE SHI’ITES AND MUSLIMS ARE
SLAUGHTERING EACH OTHER. ARE WE ON THE SIDE OF al-ASSAD
NOW? FRANKLY SOME SAID RICEUSISIS WAS
PROBABLY A HELPFUL FORCE BECAUSE THEY WERE GOING AFTER al-ASSAD:
IT’S VERY QUICK TRICKY. WHY DOES THIS GROUP OF
DESPICABLE THUGS PUT THEIR HORRIFIC ACTS ON YouTube?
THEY WANT TO DRAW US INTO THE REGION.
THEY’RE FOLLOWING A AN ANCIENT AND NOT OFFICIAL TEXT OF THEIR
WHICH THEY CLAIM IS ESSENTIALLY A MUSLIM BOOK OF REVELATIONS
THAT WOULD LEAD THEM TO A CERTAIN RESULT.
ONLY IF THEY’RE IN THE RIGHT PLACE AT THE RIGHT TIME TO
ATTACK. WE’RE DOING WHAT THEY WANT WHEN
WE GO IN WITH BOMBING MISSIONS. IT HELPS THEM RECRUIT.
>>Paul: UKRAINE AND EASTERN EUROPE NOW.
CANADA’S PART OF A NATO MISSION THERE.
NATO’S ARTICLE FIVE SAYS IF A NATO NATION IS ATTACKED, ALL
NATO NATIONS MUST RESPOND. WOULD AN N.D.P. GOVERNMENT
UPHOLD NATO’S ARTICLE FIVE IN EASTERN EUROPE AGAINST?
>>Thomas Mulcair: OF COURSE UKRAINE NOT BEING A MEMBER OF
NATO, I’M NOT SURE THAT THE QUESTION WOULD PERTAIN.
I GUESS WHAT YOU’RE SAYING IS IF A NATO —
>>Paul: NEIGHBOURS. >>Thomas Mulcair: WE’LL OF
COURSE SUPPORT NATO. WE ARE PROUD MEMBERS OF NATO,
AND THAT’S WHY I MADE REFERENCE EARLIER TO THE FACT THAT SHOULD
BE ONE OF OUR MULTILATERAL CORNERSTONES AS TO WHETHER OR
NOT A MISSION IS A NATO MISSION. DESPITE WHAT MR. HARPER JUST
SAID, THE MISSION IN IRAQ IS NOT A NATO MISSION, PERIOD.
FULL STOP. WITH REGARD TO UKRAINE, YES,
PUTIN IS A DANGER. WE STAND FIRMLY WITH UKRAINE
AGAINST THE AGGRESSION BY RUSSIA.
BUT THERE ARE THINGS THAT CANADA CAN AND SHOULD BE DOING.
NOW, OUR ALLIES, AGAIN, HAVE A RATHER COMPLETE LIST OF PEOPLE
WHO ARE BEING SANCTIONED. THERE ARE TWO KEY PLAYERS.
MR. HARPER IS SHELTERING THEM. THEY’RE NOT ON CANADA’S LIST.
MY QUESTION TO YOU, MR. HARPER IS WHY ARE THESE TWO INDIVIDUALS
BEING BLOCKED BIAL YOU HAVE BEEN OUR ALLIES AND YOU’RE GIVING
THEM A FREE PASS?>>Prime Minister Harper: LET ME
BE CLEAR OF HOW WE HAVE HANDLED SANCTIONS.
WE’RE SANCTIONED A NUMBER OF RUSSIAN OFFICIALS WHO ARE
INVOLVED IN UKRAINIAN TERRITORY. WE HAVE — ALL THE ALLIES HAVE
SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT LISTS BECAUSE OF THE OBJECTIVE IN ALL OF THESE
THINGS IS TO MAKE SURE WE DO MAXIMUM DAMAGE TO VLADIMIR PUTIN
AND THE RUSSIAN ECONOMY WHILE TRYING TO MINIMIZE DAMAGES TO
OUR OWN. ALL OF OUR ALLIES LIST PEOPLE WE
FOLLOW INVAR I CAN’T BELIEVE
WITH THESE LISTS. >>Thomas Mulcair: MR. HARPER IS
REFUSING TO PUT THEM ON CANADA’S LIST, AND NOW HE’S REFUSING TO
TELL CANADIANS WHY. >>Paul: WE’RE GOING TO WRAP UP
THIS PART OF FOREIGN POLICY AND SECURITY.
THE FINAL QUESTION GOES TO JUSTIN TRUDEAU OF THE LIBERAL
PARTY. MR. TRUDEAU, YOU’VE HAD TO MAKE
DIFFICULT DECISIONS OSHES OF WAR ABROAD AND SECURITY AT HOME.
OPPOSING THE GOVERNMENT’S DECISION TO TAKE PART IN THE
INTERNATIONAL ACTION AGAINST ISIL IN IRAQ AND SYRIA.
SUPPORTING THE ANTITERRORISM LEGISLATION BILL C-51 IN
PARLIAMENT, EVEN THOUGH YOU SAY YOU WOULD CHANGE IT LATER.
WHY DO THESE ISSUES RAISE THE MOST PERSISTENT QUESTIONS ABOUT
YOUR JUDGMENT?>>Justin Trudeau: THE FACT IS
THE GOVERNMENT OF CANADA AND THE PRIME MINISTER IS EXPECTED TO DO
TWO THINGS BY CANADIANS. THE FIRST ONE IS TO KEEP US
SAFE. THE SECOND IS TO UPHOLD AND
DEFEND OUR RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS. NOW MR. HARPER DOESN’T THINK WE
NEED TO DO ANYTHING MORE TO PROTECT OUR RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS,
AND MR. MULCAIR WITH HIS POSITION ON COUNTERTERRORISM
LAWS DOESN’T THINK WE NEED TO DO ANYTHING MORE ON SECURITY.
THE LIBERAL PARTY HAS BEEN VERY CLEAR.
WE NEED TO DO BOTH OF THEM TOGETHER.
WE SUPPORTED THAT LEGISLATION BECAUSE THERE WAS SPECIFIC
ELEMENTS IN THERE THAT IMMEDIATELY AND CONCRETELY
PROTECT CANADIAN SECURITY AND WE’RE COMMITTED TO REPEAL THE
PROBLEMATIC ELEMENTS THAT WILL BE HIGHLIGHTED AND ACTUALLY
BRINGING IN THE PROPER OVERSIGHT THAT OUR FIVE EYES ALLIES ALL
HAVE BY ELECTED LEGISLATORS OVER OUR NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCIES
TO MAKE SURE THAT WE BRING IN SUNSET AND REVIEW CLAUSE AND
MAKING SURE THAT WE ARE NARROWING AND SPECIFYING THE
DEFINITIONS. WE MANAGED AT COMMITTEE TO
ENCOURAGE THE GOVERNMENT TO BRING IN SIGNIFICANT AMENDMENTS
THAT REMOVED A NUMBER OF VERY PROBLEMATIC ELEMENTS IN IT.
AND WE WILL CONTINUE TO BE PRODUCTIVE AND CONSTRUCTIVE IN
NOT PRETENDING THERE’S A POLITICAL CHOICE TO BE MADE.
PERHAPS IT WAS NAIVE. PERHAPS THERE WAS SOMETHING THAT
I PUT FORWARD AND SAID YOU KNOW WHAT, WE CAN TAKE A RESPONSIBLE
POSITION AT A TIME OF POLITICS OF ATTACK AND DIVISION, BECAUSE
MR. HARPER WANTS EVERYONE TO BE SCARED THAT THERE ARE TERRORISTS
HIDING BEHIND EVERY LEAF AND ROCK.
MR. MULCAIR WANTS US TO BE SCARED FOR OUR CHARTER AND BASIC
RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS. THE FACT IS ANY CANADIAN
GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO DO THEM BOTH TOGETHER, AND THAT IS WHAT THE
LIBERAL PARTY HAS DEMONSTRATED IN THE YEARS FOLLOWING 9/11.
THAT’S WHAT WE CONTINUE TO DEMONSTRATE IN TERMS OF GETTING
THAT BALANCE RIGHT.>>Paul: MR. HARPER, WHAT DO YOU
MAKE OF MR. TRUDEAU’S RESPONSES ON THESE KEY QUESTIONS?
>>Prime Minister Harper: I’LL LET MR. TRUDEAU EXPLAIN HIS OWN
POSITION. HE’S FOR AND AGAINST THE
LEGISLATION AT THE SAME TIME. WHAT I SAY IS THIS, PAUL.
OUR VIEW IS VERY CLEAR THAT SECURITY AND FREEDOM GO HAND IN
HAND. WE KNOW THAT THE INTERNATIONAL
JIHADIST MOVEMENT WE FACE IS A VERY SERIOUS MENACE TO THIS
PLANET, INCLUDING TO THIS COUNTRY.
WHAT WE DID IN DEVELOPING OUR LEGISLATION IS WE LOOKED AT WHAT
MODERN POWERS, POLICE, AND SECURITY AGENCIES HAVE ACROSS
OUR ALLIES, AND WE MADE SURE WE ARE UP TO THOSE STANDARDS.
WE’VE ALSO PROVIDED, AND MR. TRUDEAU TALKS ABOUT
OVERSIGHT. WE HAVE MOVED OUR OVERSIGHT IN A
VERY DIFFERENT DIRECTION. NOT HAVING POLITICIANS DOING
OVERSIGHT. WE HAVE OVERSIGHT DONE BY
INDEPENDENT EXPERT, EXPERTS IN THE FIELD, AN INDEPENDENT
COMMITTEE. AND THEY’RE CHAIRED AND THOSE
CHAIRED BY PROMINENT FORMER JUDGES.
I THINK THAT IS A ROBUST SYSTEM.>>Paul: WHEN YOU SUPPORT
PARLIAMENTARY OVERSIGHT, WHY DID YOU CHANGE YOUR MIND?
IS IT BECAUSE YOU DON’T LIKE WHAT IT’S ALL ABOUT?
>>Prime Minister Harper: I DON’T SUPPORT THIS KIND OF
OVERSIGHT. I SUPPORT PARLIAMENTARIANS
OVERSIGHT ON LEGISLATION. THAT IS OUR ROLE TO DRAFT LAWS
AND MAKE LAWS. WHEN IT COMES TO THE OPERATIONS
OF GOVERNMENT, THE OPERATIONS OF SECURITY AGENCIES, I DON’T THINK
THEY SHOULD BE POLITICIZED. I THINK THAB SHOULD BE DONE BY
EXPERTS. >>Elizabeth May: THERE’S NO
EXPERT OVERSIGHT OC-51. THERE’S NO OVERSIGHT AT ALL.
IF YOU LISTEN TO SECURITY EXPERTS, I ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO
GO ONLINE TO JOHN FOGERTY. THIS C-51 ANTITERRORISM ACT
MAKES US LESS SAFE. IT’S NOT CONFRONTING TERRORISM.
IT’S LIKELY TO MAKE US LESS ABLE
TO FOIL PLOTS. JOE FOGARTY’S TESTIMONY WAS THAT
THIS IS DANGEROUS AND IS THERE ANYTHING CANADA IS DOING THE
U.K. SHOULD EMULATE? HE SAID ABSOLUTELY NOT.
THEY’RE SITTING ON A TRAGEDY WAITING TO HAPPEN.
>>Paul: I SUSPECT TOM MULCAIR YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO AGREE.
>>Thomas Mulcair: WE ALL AGREE THAT WHOEVER FORMS GOVERNMENT
HAS TO PROTECT CANADIANS FROM TERRORISM.
THERE’S NO DISAGREEMENT ON THAT. WE STRONGLY BELIEVE YOU HAVE TO
DO THAT WITHOUT TRAMPLING ON THE RIGHTS AND FREED — FREEDOMS AND
OF CANADIANS. WHEN TOP LEGAL EXPERTS ALL
CONCUR THAT BILL C-51 REPRESENTS A REAL THREAT TO OUR RIGHTS AND
FREEDOMS CAN NOTHING IN RETURN BECAUSE THERE’S NOTHING THAT
WASN’T ALREADY CAPTURED BY EXISTING LEGISLATION, WE HAVE
ONE CLEAR ANSWER TO THE CANADIAN VOTING PUBLIC.
THE N.D.P. WILL REVEAL BILL C-51.>>Paul: ANY LEGISLATION TO GIVE
ANY NEW TOOLS TO POLICE. >>Thomas Mulcair: IF THERE’S
EVIDENCE THAT SOMETHING IS MISSING.
THE CONSERVATIVES LEFT SILENT THE QUESTION OF DOMESTIC
RADICALIZATION. SOME OF THE CODE WORDS USED BY
THE CONSERVATIVES HAS BEEN VERY WORRISOME.
FOR EXAMPLE, PRESIDENT OBAMA WILL TALK ABOUT WORKING WITH
HOUSES OF WORSHIP AND RELIGIOUS LEADERS.
MR. HARPER POINTS OUT AND SINGLES OUT MOSQUES.
HE KNOWS WHY HE’S USING THAT LANGUAGE.
HE HAS A BACKBENCHER WHO SAID THAT MUSLIM WOMEN SHOULD GET THE
HELL BACK WHERE THEY CAME FROM AND HE’S ABOUT TO SIGN THAT
PERSON’S NOMINATION PAPERS. I FIND THAT REPREHENSIBLE AND
BENEATH THE DIGNITY. >>Paul: ARE YOU USING CODE
WORDS?>>Prime Minister Harper:
ABSOLUTELY NOT NOT. THE N.D.P.’S MANTRA IS THE SAME
THINK TIME. EVERY PIECE OF LEGISLATION
PRESENTED TO PARLIAMENT, THE N.D.P. HAS OPPOSED.
WE HAVE DONE THINGS LIKE ALLOWING SECURITY ORGANIZATIONS
TO SHARE INFORMATION ON TERRORIST THREATS, ALLOWING THEM
TO INTERVENE BEFORE PLOTS DEVELOP TO PREVENT THE VERY KIND
EVER THING THAT HAPPENED IN ST. JEAN IN OCTOBER.
IT IS IMPORTANT — I BELIEVE IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WE CALL THE
INTERNATIONAL JIHADIST THREAT EXACTLY WHAT IT IS.
ANYONE WHO THINKS THAT IS SOMEHOW LABELING ISLAM, MUSLIMS
ARE THE VAST MAJORITY OF VICTIM OF THIS MOVEMENT.
MUSLIM MINORITIES OF A PARTICULAR FOCUS OF OUR
INTERNATIONAL EFFORTS TO MAKE SURE WE PROTECT PEOPLE, NOT JUST
IN THIS COUNTRY, BUT AROUND THE WORLD.
IF YOU’RE NOT PREPARED TO CALL THE THREAT WE FACE BY THE NAME
IT IS, YOU ARE NOT PREPARED TO CONFRONT IT.
AND WE NEED TO CONFRONT IT AS A COUNTRY.
>>Paul: ELIZABETH MAY. >>Elizabeth May: C-51 DOES NOT
DO THE THINGS THE PRIME MINISTER JUST SAID.
THIS LEGISLATION FAILS TO BRING IN EVERY EFFORTS WHICH THE U.K.
HAVE BROUGHT IN THEIR LEGISLATION TO CONFRONT THE RISK
OF RADICALIZATION. WE CAN ABORT TERRORIST PLOTS
WITHOUT BILL C-51. WE GOT THE 18 IN TORONTO.
WE ARRESTED YOUNG PEOPLE WHO WERE ABOUT TO LEAVE MONTREAL.
THAT WAS ALL BEFORE C-51 WAS PASSED.
IT CREATES A SECRET POLICE WITH NO REPORTING REQUIREMENTS TO THE
RCMP. NONE.
TELL CREATE SEPARATE SECURITY ESPIONAGE GROUPS NOT KNOWING
WHAT THE OTHER IS DOING. THIS LEGISLATION MUST BE
REVEALED AND WE SHOULD GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE RECOMMENDATIONS
TO ANYONE HERE, AND I HOPE TO BE PLAYING A KEY ROLE IN THE NEXT
PARLIAMENT. WE MUST LOOK AT THE
RECOMMENDATION FROM THE AIR INDIA INQUIRY FROM JOHN MAJOR
AND LOOK AT RECOMMENDATIONS FROM THE MAHAR-ARAR INQUIRY AND USE
THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS AS THE LEGISLATION.
THIS IS A DISASTER. >>Paul: ARE YOU SURPRISED BY
THE REACTION TO YOUR STANCE LIBERAL MEMBERS CUTTING UP THEIR
PARTY KARTDZ AND LIBERAL MEMBERS LEAVING TO THE N.D.P. ON THIS
ISSUE?>>Justin Trudeau: NO.
THIS IS AN ISSUE PEOPLE ARE QUITE RIGHTLY WORKED UP OVER.
THERE’S QUITE A BIT OF FEAR AND DIVISION.
ONE THING THE LIBERAL PARTY IS FOCUSED IS MAKING RESPONSIBLE
DECISIONS. THAT MEANS THERE WILL BE
PEOPLING DISAGREES ON THE LEFT AND THE RIGHT WITH OUR
POSITIONS. I’M FAIRLY CONFIDENT — I AM
CONFIDENT THAT WE HAVE THE RIGHT POSITION HERE.
WE NEED TO TALK A LOT MORE ABOUT ATTACKING — ADDRESSING
RADICALIZATION, WORKING WITH VARIOUS COMMUNITIES TO MAKE SURE
THAT WE ARE ENGAGING IN THE KIND OF COUNTERRADICALIZATION THAT
OTHER COUNTRIES HAVE DONE. COUNTRIES LIKE CANADA,
PARTICULARLY A COUNTRY THAT’S SO STRONG NOT IN SPITE OF OUR
DIFFERENCES BUT BECAUSE OF THOSE DIFFERENCES.
WE NEED TO REDUCE THE FEAR AND WORK TOGETHER TO KEEP CANADIANS
SAFE. THAT’S SOMETHING THE LIBERAL
PARTIES KNOWS WE NEED TO DO MORE OF.
>>Prime Minister Harper: LET’S TALK ABOUT THE ISSUE OF
COUNTERING AND REDUCING RADICALIZATION
RADICALIZATION. THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THE
REASON WE’VE HAD SUCH SUCCESS IN THIS COUNTRY IN BREAKING UP
PLOTS BEFORE THEY HAVE OCCURRED AND WE KNOW WHAT SOME OF THOSE
ARE IS BECAUSE OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT AND SECURITY
AGENCIES ARE WORKING MORE CLOSELY WITH COMMUNITIES THAT
ARE VULNERABLE THAN ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD.
AND THEY GET GREAT SUPPORT. AND THAT IS BECAUSE WE HAVE
STRONG POLICIES THAT PROMOTE MULTICULTURAL AND CULTURAL
INTEGRATION IN THIS COUNTRY. THAT’S WHY WE DON’T HAVE THE
KINDS OF PROBLEMS IN BRITAIN AND ELSEWHERE, AND THESE ARE EXACTLY
THE KINDS OF POLICIES THE GOVERNMENT OF CANADA AND ITS
AGENCIES ARE DOING TODAY.>>Thomas Mulcair: MR. HARPER’S
APPROACH HAS LEFT US WEAKER AND LESS RESPECTED ON THE WORLD
STAGE. FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE THE
UNITED NATIONS WAS CREATED, CANADA MISSED ITS TURN ON THE
SECURITY COUNCIL AND BY THE WAY, MR. HARPER WE WEREN’T THROWN OUT
BY DICTATORSHIPS BUT LONG-TIME ALLIES LIKE PORTUGAL AND GERMANY
THAT DON’T RECOGNIZE THE CANADA YOU’RE PROJECT ON TO THE WORLD
STAGE. WE CAN GET BACK TO A CANADA
THAT’S RESPECTED ON THE ISSUES OF AID.
WE’LL PROTECT, DEFEND, AND PROMOTE THOSE CANADIAN VALUES ON
THE INTERNATIONAL STAGE. WE ALSO WILL START TO RESPECT
OUR INTERNATIONAL OBLIGATIONS, STOP WORKING AGAINST THE WORLD,
START WORKING FOR THE PLANET. I WOULD LOVE NOTHING MORE THAN
AS PRIME MINISTER, NEXT DECEMBER, TO GO TO THE
INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE ON CLIMATE CHANGE IN PARIS AND TO
DO JUST THAT — GET A CONTRACT TO DEAL WITH THE VERY REAL ISSUE
OF CLIMATE CHANGE. >>Paul: THE WEAKER AND LESS
RESPECTED ON THE WORLD STAGE.>>Prime Minister Harper: QUITE
THE CONTRARY. ACCORDING TO THE A STUDY,
CANDIDATE MOST ADMIRED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, BECAUSE WE TAKE
STRONG STANDS. WE DO WHAT WE BELIEVE IS RIGHT.
LET’S TALK ABOUT THE SECURITY COUNCIL OF THE UNITED NATIONS.
THERE’S A MOVEMENT AT THE UNITED NATIONS TO ISOLATE AND DENIGRATE
THE STATE OF ISRAEL. THIS GOVERNMENT HAS TAKEN A VERY
CLEAR POSITION. WE WILL NOT SUPPORT THAT.
IT IS WRONG. THIS IS ONLY COUNTRY IN THE
WORLD WHOSE EXISTENCE IS UNDER THREAT.
IT’S A FRIEND AND ALLY AND ONE OF THE BEST — THE BEST FRIEND
AND ALLY THIS COUNTRY HAS IN A VERY DANGEROUS REASON AND WE’LL
NEVER GO ALONG WITH THAT.>>Thomas Mulcair: I’LL TAKE NO
LESSONS FROM ANYONE ON DEFENDING THE RIGHT OF ISRAEL TO DEFEND
ITSELF. WE TAKE A BALANCED APPROACH.
WE WANT A SAFE STATE FOR PALESTINIANS AND A SAFE STATE
FOR ISRAELIS. THAT’S A BALANCED APPROACH.
THAT’S THE TYPE OF APPROACH CANADA HAS ALWAYS TAKEN ON THE
WORLD STAGE. >>Justin Trudeau: ALL PARTIES
ARE IN AGREEMENT ON THIS. WE HAVE THE WORST RELATIONSHIP
WITH THE UNITED STATES THAT WEE HAD IN A LONG TIME.
THAT’S WHAT WE NEED TO FIX AS WELL.
>>Paul: WE HAVE COVERED SO MUCH GROUND OVER THE LAST TWO HOURS.
NOW IT’S TIME TO WRAP THINGS UP WITH SOME CLOSING REMARKS.
EACH LEADER WILL HAVE TWO MINUTES, AND WE BEGIN WITH
STEPHEN HARPER.>>Prime Minister Harper: THANK
YOU, PAUL. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN THIS
ELECTION IS ABOUT WHO HAS THE PROVEN EXPERIENCE TO KEEP CANADA
SAFE AND OUR ECONOMY STRONG. WE KNOW THAT BEYOND OUR SHORES,
THE GLOBAL ECONOMY REMAINS IN A STATE OF TURMOIL AND
UNCERTAINTY. WE HAVE FALLING OIL PRICES AND
MARKET TURMOIL IN CHINA AND YET ANOTHER DEBT CRISIS IN EUROPE.
THROUGH IT ALL, SINCE THE END OF THE GLOBAL FINANCIAL CRISIS, WE
HAVE THE BEST ECONOMIC GROWTH, THE BEST JOB CREATION, AND THE
BEST GROWTH IN MIDDLE CLASS INCOMES AMONG ANY OF THE
ADVANCED DEVELOPED NATIONS WHILE OTHER COUNTRIES ARE DESCENDING
INTO SPIRALS OF DEBT AND DEFICIT WITH TAX HIKES AND CUTS TO THEIR
PROGRAMMES AND SERVICES AND ECONOMIC STAGNATION, IN THIS
COUNTRY, WE HAVE A BALANCED BUDGET WITH LOWER TAX, INCREASED
MONEY FOR THE THINGS THAT MATTER, TRANSFERS FOR HEALTH
CARE, EDUCATION, INFRASTRUCTURE AND FOR BENEFITS FOR FAMILIES
LIKE YOURS. THE OTHER PARTIES WANT A
DIFFERENT COURSE. THEY WOULD REPLACE OUR LOW TAX,
BALANCED BUNGETTE PLAN. THEY WANT TO SPEND TENS OF
BILLIONS OF DOLLARS ADDITIONAL IN PERMANENT SPENDING TO BE
FINANCED BY HIGH TAXES, PERMANENTLY HIGHER TAXES AND
PERMANENT DEFICITS. THEY WOULD TAKE AWAY IN WHOLE OR
IN PART YOUR UNIVERSAL CHILDCARE BENEFIT, INCOME SPLITTING FOR
FAMILIES AND SENIORS AND TAX-FREE SAVINGS ACCOUNTS.
THEY WOULD HIKE TAXES ON BUSINESS AND ON WORKERS, THROUGH
INCREASES, TAX INCREASES ON THE CANADA PENSION PLAN, TAX
INCREASES TO EMPLOYMENT INSURANCE AND A CARBON TAX.
COUNTRIES THAT HAVE GONE DOWN THE WORLD OF HIGHER TAXES AND
DEFICIT ARE FAILINGLY AROUND THE WORLD.
YOU KNOW TODAY, THERE HAS BEEN AND THERE IS NO BETTER PLACE AND
NO BETTER PROSPECTS FOR YOUR FAMILY THAN THIS COUNTRY —
CANADA. ON OCTOBER 19, I SKRASK FOR YOUR SUPPORT SO TOGETHER WE CAN
CONTINUE TO BUILD THE BEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.
>>Paul: THANK YOU, STEPHEN HARPER.
THE NEXT CLOSING STATEMENT IS TOM MULCAIR.
>>Thomas Mulcair: I’D LIKE TO BEGIN BY THANKING MacLEAN’S AND
ROGERS FOR ORGANIZING TONIGHT’S DEBATE AND ALL OF YOU AT HOME
FOR JOINING US IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SUMMER.
IN THIS ELECTION, THERE IS A CLEAR CHOICE.
FOUR MORE YEARS OF STEPHEN HARPER’S CONSERVATIVES OR MY
PLAN FOR POSITIVE CHANGE. UNDER MR. HARPER’S PLAN, INCOMES
ARE STAGNANT, HOUSEHOLD DEBT IS SKYROCKETING.
MR. HARPER HAS THE WORST JOB RECORD SINCE THE SECOND WORLD
WAR. HE’S RUN UP EIGHT DEFICITS IN A
ROW AND ADDED $150 BILLION TO CANADA’S DEBT.
AND THESE VALUES — SORRY. MR. HARPER’S PLAN CLEARLY ISN’T
WORKING. THE LIST OF ONRATIVES UNDER
INVESTIGATION IS GROWING. IT IS TIME FOR A CHANGE.
CHANGE THAT’S BUILT ON HARD WORK, LIVING WITHIN YOUR MEANS
AND ACCOUNTABILITY. THESE ARE THE VALUES THAT HAVE
GUIDED MY 35 YEARS OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND THE VALUES THAT WILL
CONTINUE TO GUIDE ME. MY NUMBER ONE PRIORITY IS TO
KICK START THE ECONOMY AND GET CANADIANS WORKING.
WE WILL INVEST IN LOCAL INFRASTRUCTURE AND HELP SMALL
BUSINESSES TO CREATE JOBS. AND WE UNDERSTAND THAT GOOD JOBS
AND A CLEAN ENVIRONMENT GO HAND IN HAND.
I HAVE FOUGHT FOR CANADA MY WHOLE LIFE.
I KNOW THAT CANADA IS THE GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.
BUT A LOT HAS BEEN LOST UNDER THE CONSERVATIVES.
I HAVE THE EXPERIENCE TO REPLACE MR. HARPER AND THE PLAN TO
REPAIR THE DAMAGE THAT HE HAS DONE.
CANADIANS ARE READY FOR CHANGE. WE’RE READY TOO.
I INVITE YOU TO JOIN US. THANK YOU.
>>Paul: THANK YOU, TOM MULCAIR. AND THE NEXT ROUND OF CLOSING
REMARKS GO TO ELIZABETH MAY.>>Elizabeth May: THANK YOU.
YOU ALSO WANT TO THANK MACLEAN’S AND ROGERS.
AS WE CURRENTLY STAND HERE ON AUGUST 6 WILL BE THE ONLY DEBATE
THAT INVOLVES ALL OF US IN AN ENGLISH LANGUAGE DEBATE AND
MAYBE WE WON’T GET A FRENCH LANGUAGE DEBATE.
I APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK DIRECTLY TO CANADIANS.
IT’LL BE A SHAME IF WE DON’T HAVE MORE DEBATES.
AS COMPREHENSIVE AS THE QUESTIONS WERE, WE HAVE NOT
DISCUSSED SOCIAL POLICY OR HOW WE RESPOND TO THE TRUTH AND
RECKON SILLIATION COMMISSION AND HOW WE MUST EXPAND OUR
PHARMACEUTICAL PROGRAMME AND CRUSHING DEBT OF STUDENT LOANS
FOR STUDENTS AND THEIR FAMILIES. EVERYONE IS TALKING ABOUT THE
MIDDLE CLASS AND I SUPPORT THEIR CONCERN.
THE 86 WEALTHIEST FAMILIES IN THIS COUNTRY HAVE THE SAM
COMBINED WEALTH AS THE 11.4 MILLION CANADIANS AT THE
BOTTOM. 1/3 OF CANADIANS HAVE THE
COMBINED WEALTH OF THE TOP 86 FAMILIES.
WE HAVE TO ADDRESS THIS. I ASK YOU TO CONSIDER THE GREEN
PARTY. I ASK YOU TO GET TO KNOW US.
WE ARE NOT WHAT YOU THINK. WE ARE NOT A 1-ISSUE PARTY.
WE’RE CENTURY NOT A ONE PERSON PARTY.
I’M JOINED TO BE JOINED BY DANIEL GREEN.
WE HAVE EXEMPLARY CANDIDATES FROM COAST-TO-COAST.
PEOPLE LIKE CLAIRE MARTIN IN NORTH VANCOUVER AND GORD MILLER,
FORMER ENVIRONMENT MINISTER IN G GUELPH.
WE WANT TO GO TO WORK FOR NUA MORE COLLABORATIVE PARLIAMENT,
ONE WITH GREATER RESPECT WITH CIVILITY IN OUR DISCOURSE AND
WILLING TO WORK ACROSS PARTY LINES AND DELIVER WHAT CANADIANS
WANT. WE BELIEVE IN A CANADIAN THAT
WORKS. WE BELIEVE IN A CANADA THAT
WORKS TOGETHER FOR ALL OF US. HELP US NOW.
THIS IS THE ELECTION WHERE WE WILL GET OUR COUNTRY BACK.
>>Paul: THANK YOU, ELIZABETH MAY.
I’VE ALMOST NEVER SEEN POLITICIANS STICK TO THEIR TIME
LIKE THESE ARE. MR. TRUDEAU, YOU GET THE LAST
WORD. >>Justin Trudeau: MR. HARPER
HAS SPENT MILLIONS ON ATTACK ADS TRYING TO CONVINCE YOU I AM NOT
READY FOR THIS JOB. AS SILLY AS THEY ARE, HOW CAN
YOU DECIDE WHETHER SOMEONE IS READY TO BE YOUR PRIME MINISTER.
HERE’S WHEY THINK. IN ORDER TO KNOW WHETHER SOMEONE
IS READY FOR THIS JOB, ASK THEM WHAT THEY WANT TO DO WITH THIS
JOB. AND WHY THEY WANT IT IN THE
FIRST PLACE. I’M A 43-YEAR-OLD FATHER OF
THREE KIDS, AND I LOVE THEM DEEPLY, AND I WANT THEM TO GROW
UP IN THE BEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, ONE THAT WE CAN ALL BE
PROUD OF. WHAT LEARNED FROM MY FATHER IS
THAT TO LEAD THIS COUNTRY, YOU NEED TO LOVE THIS COUNTRY.
LOVE IT MORE THAN YOU CRAVE POWER.
IT NEEDS TO RUN THROUGH YOUR VEINS.
YOU NEED TO FEEL IT IN YOUR BONES.
MR. HARPER AND I PART WAYS TO MANY ISSUES, BUT OUR DIFFERENCES
GO DEEPER THAN JUST POLICY. MR. HARPER IS DEAD WRONG ABOUT
ONE THING. HE WANTS YOU TO BELIEVE THAT
BETTER JUST ISN’T POSSIBLE. WELL, I THINK THAT’S WRONG.
WE ARE WHO WE ARE, AND CANADA IS WHAT IT IS BECAUSE IN OUR
HEARTS, WE HAVE ALWAYS KNOWN THAT BETTER IS ALWAYS POSSIBLE.
AN ECONOMY THAT WORKS FOR THE MIDDLE CLASS MEANS A COUNTRY
THAT WORKS FOR EVERYONE, A COUNTRY THAT IS STRONG NOT IN
SPITE OF OUR DIFFERENCES BUT BECAUSE OF THEM.
THE WORLD NEEDS MORE OF BOTH THOSE THINGS, AND AFTER 10 YEARS
OF MR. HARPER, SO DO WE.>>Paul: THANK YOU.
>>Justin Trudeau: THAT’S WHY I WANT TO BE YOUR PRIME MINISTER.
>>Paul: THANK YOU, MR. TRUDEAU. THIS CONCLUDES THE FIRST DEBATE
OF THIS CAMPAIGN. THIS WHOLE EXPERIMENT WAS A BIT
OF A NEW EXPERIENCE FOR EVERYBODY CONCERNED, AND I WANT
TO THANK THE LEADERS FOR THE LEAP OF FAITH THAT THEY SHOWED
WHEN THEY AGREED TO PARTICIPATE. GOOD LUCK ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL
TO ALL OF YOU. ON BEHALF OF MACLEAN’S CITY, AND
OMNI, I WANT TO THANK THE VIEWERS AT HOME AND ONLINE FOR
TUNING IN. PLEASE STAY TUNED ON OMNI.
I’M HEADING OVER THERE RIGHT NOW FOR THE CityNews SPECIAL.
YOUR VOTE, YOUR FUTURE. I’M PAUL WELLS.
GOOD NIGHT FROM TORONTO.>>Gord: A COUNTRY’S FUTURE.
>>I DON’T REALLY THINK HE’S GOT A GOOD TRACK RECORD WHEN
THIS COUNTRY IS IN A RECESSION.
>>YOU HAVE COMPLETELY BECOME DISCONNECTED FROM THE
REALITY THE PEOPLE ARE FACING RIGHT ACROSS THE
COUNTRY.>>AND I’LL TELL YOU WHAT
WON’T GROW OUR ECONOMY. THE KINDS OF PLANS THESE
GUYS ARE PRESENTING.>>Gord: PUT TO THE TEST.
>>WHOEVER GAVE YOU THE ADVICE THAT SIMPLY
ANNOUNCING YOU WOULDN’T APPOINT SENATORS IS
UNCONSTITUTIONAL NEEDS TO GO BACK TO LAW SCHOOL.
>>YOU’RE GOING TO DO EVERYTHING YOU CAN TO HANG
ON TO YOUR JOB.>>Gord: OR DIVIDE US.
>>THE ONLY TWO PEOPLE I KNOW IN CANADA WHO ARE
ANXIOUS TO START TALKING ABOUT SEPARATISM AGAIN ARE
JUSTIN TRUDEAU AND GILLES DUCEPPE.
>>THE LONGEST ELECTION CAMPAIGN IN RECENT HISTORY
INTENSIFIES.>>MR. HARPER HAS FAILED OUR
VETERANS BY NICKEL-AND-DIMING THEM.
>>Gord: THIS IS YOUR VOTE.>>THAT IS THE RECORD OF THE
N.D.P. THEY’RE ALWAYS FOR PROJECTS
UNTIL THEY ACTUALLY FACE ONE.
>>Gord: THIS IS YOUR FUTURE.
>>HONESTLY, MR. HARPER, YOU REALLY CAN’T AFFORD ANOTHER
FOUR YEARS.>>Gord: GOOD EVENING.
IS THE DEBATED OVER? OR HAS IT JUST BEGUN?
FROM THE ISSUES TO THE PUNCHES AND COUNTER PUNCHES,
WE TAKE YOU COAST TO COAST AS CANADIANS GIVE THEIR TAKE
IN PERSON AND ONLINE. LET’S KICK THINGS OFF WITH
OUR PANEL OF EXPERTS AND “CityNews” POLITICAL
SPECIALIST CYNTHIA MULLIGAN.>>Cynthia: THANK YOU, GORD.
I AM JOINED BY SOME ESTEEMED POLITICAL ANALYSTS FROM
OTTAWA. WE HAVE CORMAC MacSWEENEY,
WHO IS THE PARLIAMENT HILL BUREAU CHIEF FOR 680News.
WE HAVE JOHN GEDDES FROM MACLEAN’S.
YOU ARE THE OTTAWA BUREAU CHIEF AND JUSTIN LING FROM
VICE, THE PARLIAMENTARY CORRESPONDENT.
SO I’M GOING TO START WITH YOU, JUS CONTINUE.
WHO DO YOU THINK WON AND WHY?
>>THIS IS GOING TO BE UNSATISFYING RESPONSE, BUT
REALLY IN A WAY THEY ALL WON AND THEY ALL DIDN’T WIN.
KIND OF NOBODY WON. EVERYBODY WON.
THE SECRET IS THAT CAMPAIGNS DON’T NECESSARILY WANT TO
WIN. THOMAS MULCAIR PROBABLY HAD
THE EXPECTATION OF COMING OUT AND JUST EVISCERATEING
HIS OPPONENTS. HE DIDN’T DO THAT.
HE LOOKED STRONG ON CERTAIN ISSUES.
A LITTLE CONFUSED, A LITTLE VAGUE IN SOME PARTS.
EX PREKTATIONS HE D.HARPER NEED TODAY STAY STANDING, HE
D.MAY NEED TODAY GET IN A WORD IN EDGEWISE AND MAKE
HER POINTS. SHE DID THAT.
>>Cynthia: SHE WAS VERY ARTICULATE.
>>EXACTLY. THEY ALL PLAYED UP THEIR
STRENGTHS, PLAYED DOWN THEIR WEAKNESSES.
HIGHLIGHT THEIR OPPONENTS’ WEAKNESSES.
I THINK THEY DID DID THEIR JOB.
WHAT COMES OUT IN THE WASH WILL BE DETERMINED FOR
TOMORROW.>>Cynthia: HAS ANYTHING
CHANGED, BILL?>>I DON’T KNOW.
I THINK THAT THE — IF YOU THINK ABOUT WHO HAD
SOMETHING TO LOSE HERE, PRETTY SURELY STEPHEN HARPER
WAS THE GUY HE KNEW HE WAS GOING TO BE UNDER ATTACK AND
HE WAS UNDER AA TACK MORE THAN ANY OF THE OTHER
LEADERS ON THE STAGE AND I DON’T THINK HE CAME AWAY
FROM IT BLEEDING. I THINK HE CAME AWAY FROM IT
STANDING LOOKING FAIRLY SOLID ON MOST OF THE
SECTIONS PROBABLY STRONGEST I THOUGHT IN THE DEMOCRACY
SECTION WHICH I THOUGHT WOULD BE HIS WEAKEST SECTION
GOING INTO THIS BECAUSE HE SEEMED SO VULNERABLE ON THE
SENATE. ELIZABETH MAY WAS INTEREST.
SHE CAN TEND TO RAMBLE AT TYPES BUT SHE DIDN’T
TONIGHT. SHE WAS QUITE FOCUSED AND
PRECISE. IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE NOT TO
WANT TO LISTEN TO HER EVEN THOUGH REALLY FACTUALLY SHE
DOESN’T REALLY HAVE THE SAME POLITICAL STANDING AS THE
OTHER PEOPLE WHO WERE UP THERE BEHIND THE PODIUM.
>>YOU CAN TELL SHE WAS READY FOR THIS DEBATE.
SHE WAS READY TO GO AT HARPER AS SHE HAD IN THE
PAST IN 2008 WHEN SHE TOOK PART IN THAT DEBATE.
SHE WAS SHUT OUT IN 2011. SHE WANTED A CHANCE TO
REDEEM HERSELF WITH THIS ONE.
I THINK SHE DID. SHE ALSO WAS ABLE TO GO
AFTER N.D.P. LEADER THOMAS MULCAIR, WHICH IS WHERE
SHE’S GOG SWAY SOME VOTERS.>>VANCOUVER ISLAND.
>>B.C. MOSTLY.>>IT’S GOING TO BE ONE OF
THE BATTLEGROUNDS THAT THE GREENS ARE GOING TO DO
BATTLE WITH THE N.D.P. THEY’RE GOING TO TRY AND
TAKE SEATS FROM THEM. SHE NEED TODAY GO AFTER
MULCAIR ESPECIALLY ON THE B.C. ISSUE OF THE KINDER
MORGAN PIPELINE SHE DID.>>Cynthia: TRUDEAU WAS FAR
MORE AGGRESSIVE I WOULD SAY OUT OF ALL OF THEM.
>>NOT THE WAY WE NORMALLY SEE THEM.
>>Cynthia: EXACTLY. LET’S LOOK AT AN EXCHANGE
BETWEEN TRUDEAU AND HARPER ON THE ECONOMY.
>>FOR 10 YEARS THE APPROACH MR. HARPER HAS TAKEN HAS
SIMPLY NOT WORKED FOR CANADIANS.
HE HAS CONSISTENTLY CHOSEN TO GIVE OPPORTUNITIES AND
TAX BREAKS AND BENEFITS TO THE WEALTHIEST CANADIANS IN
THE HOPES THAT THAT WOULD CREATE GROWTH.
BUT THAT’S NOT HAPPENING AND THAT ACTUALLY GOES TO THE
HEART OF THE QUESTION THAT’S BEING POSED IN THIS ELECTION
CAMPAIGN. IS STEPHEN HARPER’S PLAN
WORKING FOR YOU? HE TOOK A DECADE OF
SURPLUSES AND TURNED IT INTO EIGHT CONSECUTIVE DEFICITS.
WE’RE THE ONLY COUNTRY IN THE G-7 THAT’S IN RECESSION
RIGHT NOW. HE HAS NO PLAN TO GET OUT OF
IT AND WE JUST FOUND OUT THAT WAGES ARE FALLING AS
WELL. HE MAY NOT FEEL THAT FROM 24
SUSSEX BUT I KNOW YOU FEEL THAT AT HOME.
>>Cynthia: SO INTERESTING. HARPER REALLY WAS TAKING IT
FROM ALL SIDES.>>HE WAS AND YET NOT
LOOKING TO ME LIKE HE LOST HIS POISE AT ANY POINT.
INTERESTING THERE HAD TO BE PEOPLE PRAYING FOR JUSTIN
TRUDEAU AT SOME POINT. LOOK, FUMBLING.
THEY COULDN’T EXPECT HIM TO MAKE AN OUTRIGHT GAFFE BUT
HOPING AT SOME POINT HE’S GOING TO LOOK WEAKER AND
LESS PRIME MINISTERIAL. I DON’T THINK UNTIL HIS
CLOSING STATEMENT WHERE HE WAS ODDLY MANNERED AND SLOW
IN HIS DELIVERY. UP UNTIL THAT POINT.
THEY HAVE TO BE A BIT DISAPPOINTED WITH THAT.
>>AT THE BEGINNING HE WAS VERY, VERY PARTICULAR, VERY
CONCISE AND SPECIFIC. THE OTHER LEADERS GOT IN
SOME VERY SERIOUS STINGS ON THE PRIME MINISTER IF THEY
KEEP REPEATING IT WILL BE VERY DAMAGING.
WE’RE IN A RECESSION. THE BUDGET WAS NOT BALANCED.
JOB CREATION NUMBERS ARE STAGNANT.
IF THEY CAN KEEP HITTING THOSE POINTS AND KEEP
HITTING THE PRIME MINISTER WITH THEM HE CAN BE IN REAL
TROUBLE. I DON’T THINK HE PROPERLY
INOCULATED HIMSELF AGAINST THEM TONIGHT.
>>INTERESTING WE HAD MULCAIR AND HARPER JUST THE
WAY THE PODIUM WHEREAS SET UPSIDE BY EACH.
THOSE OF US WHO WATCHED THEM GOING AT IT IN PARLIAMENT
WERE THINKING OK THAT’S GOOD POSITIONING.
I DIDN’T THINK REALLY THERE WERE MUCH FIREWORKS BETWEEN
THEM.>>THAT WAS INTENTIONAL.
THE N.D.P. PROPOSE BEGAN ‘TIS I SPOKE TO BEFORE THE
DEBATE TOLD ME THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE QUESTION PERIOD.
WE DON’T WANT IT TO BE.>>THEY WANTED TO SEE MORE
PRIME MINISTERIAL AND LESS PUGNACIOUS.
>>.>>Cynthia: I WAS SURPRISED
HOW LONG IT TOOK MULCAIR TO HIT HIS STRIDE WE ALL WENT,
AH, THERE IT IS. MULL CAROL ON THE
ENVIRONMENT WHERE WE FINALLY HAD THAT AHA MOMENT.
HE’S BACK.>>WITH REGARD TO ENERGY
EAST, IT COULD BE A WIN-WIN-WIN.
BETTER PRICE FOR THE PRODUCERS.
MORE ROYALTIES FOR THE PRODUCING PROVINCE.
IT COULD ALSO HELP CREATE THOSE JOBS IN CANADA AND
HELP WITH CANADA’S ENERGY SECURITY.
BUT HERE’S THE RUB. MR. HARPER HAS GOTTEN THE
BALANCE ALL WRONG. HE HAS SCRAPPED A SERIES OF
IMPORTANT ENVIRONMENTAL LAWS STARTING WITH THE NAVIGABLE
WATERS PROTECTION ACT, SPECIES AT RISK HAS BEEN
AFFECTED. FISHERIES.
>>Cynthia: CORMACK, YOUR THOUGHTS.
>>AT THE START OF THE DEBATE MULCAIR WAS TRYING
TOO HARD. HE WAS PROBABLY TOLD HOW TO
LOOK, HOW TO ACT, HOW TO SMILE.
>>Cynthia: LOOKING INTO THE CAMERA TOO MUCH.
>>YES.>>SMILING.
>>WAY TOO MUCH.>>SO IT CAME OFF AS KIND OF
FAKE ALMOST IN A WAY. HE WAS TRYING A LITTLE BIT
TOO HARD. AND THEN I THINK HE DROPPED
THAT AS HE GOT A LITTLE BIT LATER INTO THE DEBATE AND HE
START TODAY BECOME THE MULCAIR WE ACTUALLY KNOW AND
SEE IN QUESTION PERIOD AS JOHN WAS MENTIONING A LITTLE
BIT EARLIER. THAT’S WHEN HE REALLY HIT
HIS STRIDE AND REALLY STARTED TO GO AFTER PEOPLE
YET ALSO MAKE HIS POINT EFFECTIVE AND GET HIS
MESSAGE ACROSS.>>MULCAIR’S A NERD AT THE
END OF THE DAY. HE WANTS TO BE ABLE TO STAND
UP THERE AND RECITE YOU THE MOST INTRICATE LEVELS OF
POLICY EXPERIENCE AND RESEARCH EVERYTHING HE’S
CRAMMED INTO HIS BIG EGG HE HAD.
— EGG HEAD. HE GOT TO CLOBBER THE PRIME
MINISTER BY SAYING YOU FAILED HERE, FAILED HERE AND
FAILED HERE. HE GOT TO MAKE A VERY
COHERENT POINT IN THAT WE SHOULD BE KEEPING ENERGY
JOBS HERE IN CANADA RATHER THAN EXPORTING THEM TO CHINA
OR UNITED STATES.>>YOU SEE THE EXASPERATED
LOOK AS HE LOOKED OVER AT MULCAIR?
THAT’S A CLASSIC THING ABOUT THEIR RELATIONSHIP.
MULCAIR HAMMERING HARPER.>>Cynthia: THERE WAS A
REALLY INTERESTING EXCHANGE BETWEEN TRUDEAU AND MULCAIR
ON NATIONAL UNITY WHERE MULCAIR WAS GOADING TRUDEAU.
SO WE’RE GOING TO PULL THAT CLIP UP AND IT’S ABOUT
ANOTHER NATIONAL REFERENDUM, SOVEREIGNTY, PLUS ONE.
SO LET’S LISTEN TO THAT FOR A MOMENT.
TRUDEAU’S INTERESTING RESPONSE.
>>MR. TRUDEAU HAS AN OBLIGATION IF HE WANTS TO
TALK ABOUT THIS SUBJECT, TO COME CLEAN WITH CANADIANS.
WHAT’S HIS NUMBER? WHAT IS YOUR NUMBER,
MR. TRUDEAU?>>FIRST OF ALL, MR. MULCAIR,
I DON’T –>>YOU’RE NOT ANSWERING.
>>I DON’T QUESTION YOUR PATRIOTISM.
>>YOU HAVEN’T ANSWERED.>>THE QUESTION IS.
>>WHAT’S THE NUMBER, JUSTIN?
>>WHY IS YOUR POLICY SO RECKLESS?
YOU WANT A NUMBER, MR. MULCAIR?
>>YES.>>NINE.
MY NUMBER IS NINE. NINE SUPREME COURT JUSTICES
SAID ONE VOTE IS NOT ENOUGH TO BREAK UP THIS COUNTRY,
AND YET THAT IS MR. MULCAIR’S POSITION.
HE WANTS TO BE PRIME MINISTER OF THIS COUNTRY,
AND HE’S CHOOSING TO SIDE WITH THE SEPARATIST MOVEMENT
IN QUEBEC AND NOT WITH THE SUPREME COURT OF CANADA, AND
HE’S –>>SO.
>>HE’S BRINGING THIS YOU UP.
IT’S POLICY TO REPEAL THE CLARITY ACT.
HE QUIETLY PUT FORWARD A BILL IN THE HOUSE OF COMMONS
ON THAT.>>REALLY SECRETLY PUT IT IN
THE HOUSE OF COMMONS.>>HE VERY LOUDLY ANNOUNCED
IT IN FRENCH SIX WEEKS AGO IN — AT THE
SAINT-JEAN-BAPTISTE PARADE.>>Cynthia: INTERESTING
MOMENT. SOME FIREWORKS.
>>MONTREALERS.>>A COUPLE MONTREALERS
GOING AT IT.>>MARROW BONE.
>>WHAT TRUDEAU GOT TO DO HERE, HE GOT TO PLAY
FAVOURABLY TO MONTREALERS AND ONTARIANS, ESPECIALLY
THOSE WHO LIVED THROUGH THE LAST TWO REFERENDUMS.
HARPER GOT TO JUMP IN AND SAY LET’S NOT BOTHER TALKING
ABOUT THIS.>>I THINK THAT WAS HIS BEST
SEGMENT AND HE WAS PASSIONATE ABOUT THE UNITY
QUESTION AND IT REALLY CAME THROUGH ON THAT.
>>Cynthia: WE HAVE SO MUCH MORE TO TALK ABOUT.
WE HAVEN’T EVEN COVERED OFF ELIZABETH MAY YET OR THEIR
COMMENTS ON TERRORISM. WE WILL HAVE THAT FOR YOU IN
OUR NEXT CHAT. RIGHT NOW THOUGH, GORD, IT
IS BACK TO YOU.>>Gord: ALL RIGHT, CYNTHIA.
THANK YOU. WE HAVE BEEN COAST TO COAST
ALL NIGHT WATCHING THE DISCUSSION UNFOLD AND THE
GLOVES DROP. LIVE LOOK NOW AT St. JOHN’S,
NEWFOUNDLAND. THE CROWD THERE AT MEMORIAL
UNIVERSITY WRAPPING UP FOR THE NIGHT, BUT NOT UNTIL
TELLING US WHO THEY THINK STOLE THE SHOW.
>>NONE OF THE PARTY LEADERS HAVE REALLY TALKED ABOUT
POSTSECONDARY EDUCATION, AND COMING INTO THIS ELECTION
DEBATE, STUDENTS FROM COAST TO COAST TO COAST I THINK
WERE LOOKING FOR SOME COMMITMENTS ON BUILDING A
STRONGER ECONOMY. YOU CAN’T BE TALKING ABOUT A
STRONGER ECONOMY WITHOUT TALKING ABOUT INVESTMENTS IN
POSTSECONDARY EDUCATION.>>THEY HAVEN’T REALLY TOLD
US WHY THEIR OPINIONS MATTER, WHY WE SHOULD VOTE WITH
THEM. HOWEVER I DO THINK ELIZABETH
MAY HAS BROUGHT FORWARD SOME GOD IDEAS.
TOM MASS MULCAIR HAS DONE A GOOD JOB STAYING ON THE
PARTY LINE.>>DIFFICULT TO TALK ABOUT
THE FEDERAL ELECTION AND TO BE TALKING ABOUT THE ECONOMY
WITHOUT TALKING ABOUT THE FACT THAT YOUTH UNEMPLOYMENT
IS TWICE THE NATIONAL AVERAGE.
>>Gord: AND SPEAKING OF COAST TO COAST, TWITTER’S
BEEN HEATING UP ACROSS THE MAP.
MELANIE NG IS HERE NOW WITH THAT.
MEL?>>Melanie: THAT’S RIGHT,
GORD. I AM HERE WITH STEVE LARON
TAI FROM TWITTER CANADA, AND CANADIANS REALLY SPEAKING
OUT ONLINE NOT BEING SHY WHATSOEVER.
>>IF YOU LOOK AT THIS CHART YOU CAN REALLY SEE THE
CONVERSATION PICK UP. TWITTER’S GOD AT A WILL THE
OF THINGS. THE ONE THING IT’S REALLY
GREAT AT IS THAT LIVE REALTIME CONVERSATION.
YOU SEE ALMOST 200,000 TWEETS WHILE THE DEBATE WAS
HAPPENING. THOSE ARE PEOPLE SENDING
MESSAGES, TALKING TO EACH OTHER ABOUT WHAT THEY
THOUGHT WAS IMPORTANT. ALL THESE THINGS HAPPENING
AS THEY’RE WATCHING SITTING ON THEIR COUCH, SEEING WHAT
SOMEBODY ELSE IS SAYING, COMMENTING ON WHAT THE
LEADERS ARE SAYING. YOU KNOW IT’S POWERFUL, IT’S
QUICK AND IT’S HAPPENING RIGHT THERE.
YOU CAN SEE THAT HUGE INFLECTION IN ACTIVITY.
>>Melanie: MASSIVE SPIKES HERE.
THIS IS ACROSS CANADA OF COURSE.
>>AND AROUND THE WORLD. WE WERE LOCKING AT MAPS
EARLIER. YOU COULD SEE PEOPLE
TWEETING IN AUSTRALIA, GERMANY, ENGLAND.
YOU CAN BE ANYWHERE AND WATCHING IT ONLINE OF
COURSE. PEOPLE WOULD HAVE BEEN
RESTRICTEDED IT IN HOW THEY WATCHED IT BEFORE CAN ALL BE
PART OF THAT CONVERSATION.>>Melanie: PRETTY
INCREDIBLE. LET’S SEE WHAT’S HAPPENING
WITH THESE LEADERS BECAUSE, GOING INTO THE DEBATE
ELIZABETH MAY WAS REALLY NOWHERE TO BE SEEN
ORIGINALLY.>>YEAH.
THIS IS INCREDIBLE WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS.
WHAT YOU’RE SEEING IS SHE ENDED THE DEBATE TIED WITH
TRUDEAU FOR THE SHARE OF CONVERSATIONS.
LESS PEOPLE MENTIONING HER NAME ESSENTIALLY.
WHEN SHE WENT INTO THIS DEBATE SHE WAS NOWHERE TO BE
SEEN. AND AS SHE MADE HER OPENING
STATEMENT, ALL OF A SUDDEN PEOPLE WERE LIKE WAIT A
MINUTE. LET’S TALK ABOUT EE LIST —
ELIZABETH MAY A LITTLE MORE HERE.
SHE ENDED UP VERY, VERY HIGH.
SHE CHARTED CONSISTENTLY THROUGH THE NIGHT.
SHE STAYED THERE BASICALLY TRADING SUPPORT WITH STEPHEN
HARPER, WHERE PEOPLE TALK LESS ABOUT HIM.
GOING IN THAT’S ALL THEY TALKED B.SHE TOOK SOME OF
THAT VOICE AWAY FROM HIM.>>Melanie: INTERESTING.
WE’RE SEEING THIS ALL HAPPEN IN REAL TIME.
JUSTIN TRUDEAU, ANY SURPRISES THAT HE MAINTAINS
SORT OF THAT LEVEL? A LOT OF PEOPLE WANT TO KNOW
ABOUT HIM.>>I THINK YOU’RE LOOKING
FOR BIG MOVEMENTS EITHER WAY TO SEE THAT MOMENTUM.
EXPECTATIONS JUST COIF STAYED WHERE THEY WERE.
NO MAJOR MOMENTS. NO UPS OR DOWNS.
NICE AND STEADY WHICH IS PROBABLY OK, BUT I THINK IF
YOU’RE ELIZABETH MAY YOU THINK THAT’S A PRETTY GOOD
SHOWING. IT GIVES YOU GOOD AMMUNITION
FOR OTHERS YOU’RE NOT INVITED TO MAKING A CASE HEY,
MAYBE I SHOULD BE INVITED.>>Melanie: WHEN WE LOOK AT
SOME OF THOSE PEAK MOMENTS, WHERE YOU SEE WHERE THE
GREEN STHAT’S ELIZABETH MAY. THAT’S PEOPLE ACTUALLY
TWEETING ABOUT HER AND A THE GREEN PARTY.
>>AMAZING. YOU CAN SEE RIGHT THERE, ALL
OF A SUDDEN SHE MAKES HER OPENING STATEMENT.
EVERYBODY’S LIKE THIS IS SOMETHING WE SHOULD BE
PAYING ATTENTION TO. YOU CAN SEE WITH THE OTHER
LEADERS ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE DEBATE, DIFFERENT SPIKES
SO THE BIG GREEN SPIKE YOU SEE AT THE END IS HER
CLOSING STATEMENT OF COURSE. BUT THE MIDDLE ONE IS HER
TALKING ABOUT CIVILITY IN PARLIAMENT.
ISN’T IT INTERESTING THAT PEOPLE ARE SITTING AT HOME
SAYING THAT’S SOMETHING THEY REALLY CARE ABOUT WHEN GOING
INTO THE DEBATE IT WAS ALL ECONOMY, ECONOMY, ECONOMY.
BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE BIG INFLECTION POINTS IT WAS
CIVILITY IN PARLIAMENT AND THE LAST BIG SPIKES AT THE
END WERE ABOUT THE ISIL MISSION.
THAT’S AGAIN WHEN PEOPLE STARTED TALKING A LOT.
>>Melanie: YOU SEE THE RED SPIKE AS WELL SO JUSTIN
TRUDEAU TALKING ABOUT SECURITY AND PEOPLE SEEMED
TO REALLY SPEND TO THAT.>>WHAT’S INTERESTING HERE,
THIS IS JUST PEOPLE MENTIONING THEM, TOO.
DOESN’T ALWAYS MEAN THEY’RE SAYING FANTASTIC THINGS
ABOUT YOU. IT COULD BE I CAN’T BELIEVE
SOMEBODY JUST SAID THAT OR YOU KNOW THOSE SORTS EVERY
THINGS AS WELL. JUST SHOWING THERE’S THIS
ENTHUSIASM — SORRY NOT THE RIGHT WORD BUT A PASSION FOR
WHAT SOMEBODY’S SAYING AT THAT MOMENT THEY FEEL THEY
NEED TO TALK ABOUT IT AS WELL.
>>Melanie: WE’RE JUST GOING TO GO RIGHT TO THE BACK
HERE. BEFORE WE GO TO THIS, ROGER
PETERSEN IS STANDING BY. HE’S GETTING SOME Facebook
REACTION. WE CONTINUE SOCIAL MEDIA
REACTION ONLINE. WE’LL GO TO YOU, ROG.
>>Roger: THANKS VERY MUCH, MELANIE.
KEVIN CHAN JOINING US FROM Facebook.
HEAD OF PUBLIC POLICY THERE. IT’S BEEN AN INTERESTING
NIGHT, KEVIN. THE START OF THE NIGHT WE
HAD A POLL THAT SAID WHO SHOULD BE THE LEADER OR WHO
DO WE WANT TO SEE AS OUR PRIME MINISTER.
MULCAIR WAS AT THE FRONT. NOW WE HAVE THE SECOND POLL
AT THE END OF IT.>>WE SEE THE NUMBERS HAVE
LARGELY STAYED THE SAME. MR. MULCAIR’S MAINTAINED HAD
HIS LEAD IN THE POLLS BUT REALLY THE BIG DIFFERENCE
HERE IS ELIZABETH MAY WHO’S REALLY SORT OF JUMPED A BIT
IN TERMS OF THE POLLS AND SORT OF SEEMS TO HAVE COME
OUT OF THE CROWD AND REALLY STOOD OUT.
>>Roger: IT MIGHT BE BECAUSE OF THIS.
WE HAD A Facebook MOMENT. WE’LL EXPLAIN A LITTLE MORE.
HERE’S THE MOMENT WHEN INTEREST SPIKED IN THE
DEBATE.>>WITH ALL DUE RESPECT,
MR. PRIME MINISTER, THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN TAKE CREDIT FOR
THE EMISSIONS DROP, WHICH ONLY OCCURRED IN 2010 AND 9,
IS THE GLOBAL FINANCIAL — 2008 AND 9.
THEY WOULD HAVE GONE UP MUCH MORE THAN THEY HAVE NOW IF
NOT FOR THE ACTION OF ONTARIO AND BRITISH COLUMBIA
IN BRINGING IN A CARBON TAX. THE COLD CRUEL REALITY IS
THAT UNDER YOUR WATCH GREENHOUSE GASES HAVE BEEN
RISING. CARBON POLLUTION HAS BEEN
RISING AS SOON AS OUR ECONOMY BEGAN TO RECOVER IN
2009. STRAIGHT-UP LINE.
>>Roger: THAT WAS A SPIKE IN THE CONVERSATIONS.
QUICKLY, WHAT IS A SPIKE?>>WE’RE LOOKING IT HE
CONVERSATIONS OF ALL CANADIANS ON Facebook
WATCHING THIS DEBATE. AND THE SPIKE IS REALLY A
MOMENT WHEN A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE REALLY ENGAGING.
THAT’S A MOMENT IN TIME DURING THE DEBATE WHERE WE
REALLY SAW A SPIKE IN ACTIVITY ON Facebook.
>>Roger: WHAT DO YOU THINK MAY HAVE LED TO THAT WITH
THAT QUOTE, THAT CLIP FROM HER?
>>THERE COULD BE A LOT OF REASONS.
IT COULD BE THE NATURE OF WHAT SHE’S TALKING ABOUT.
IN THIS CASE SHE WAS TALKING ABOUT GREENHOUSE GAS
EMISSIONS IN CANADA AND HOW THEY HAD ACTUALLY DROPPED
AND IT COINCIDED WITH THE RECESSION SO COULD BE THE
CONTENT. IT COULD ALSO BE AGAIN THAT
ELIZABETH MAY AS AN INDIVIDUAL, AS A LEADER ON
STAGE REALLY STOOD OUT AMONG THE FOUR LEADERS.
THAT’S A REALLY INTERESTING INSIGHT.
WE’RE GETTING THIS IN REAL TIME FROM REAL CONVERSATIONS
WITH CANADIANS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
>>Roger: OK, KEVIN. THANKS VERY MUCH.
WE’LL TALK AGAIN IN JUST A LITTLE BIT.
LET’S GO LIVE TO TOM MULCAIR.
>>YOU KNOW, MANY CANADIANS ARE AFRAID THAT THEY WILL
OUTLIVE THEIR MONEY AND THEY WANT ACCESS TO PENSION
SAVINGS VEHICLES. WOULD YOUR GOVERNMENT
SUPPORT AN ONTARIO PENSION PLAN?
>>MICHAEL, AS YOU SAW THIS EVENING, THAT WAS ONE OF THE
SUBJECTS WE DIDN’T GET TO, AND IT’S ALWAYS BEEN A GREAT
CONCERN TO ME WHEN YOU SEE SOMETHING LIKE A BANKRUPTCY
AT NORTEL AND YOU WATCH A LOT OF PENSIONERS LOSE THEIR
MONEY, BECAUSE THEY’VE INVESTED.
IT’S FOREGONE WAGES AND THEN WE DON’T HAVE PROTECTION IN
THE CASE OF BANKRUPTCY AND INSOLVENCY.
THAT’S SOMETHING WE CLEARLY HAVE TO WORK ON.
YES, I THINK THAT ONTARIO IS RIGHT TO TRY TO DO SOMETHING
TO HELP PENSIONERS HAVE A DECENT RETIREMENT.
I WOULD PREFER TO BE THE N.D.P. GOVERNMENT THAT DOES
THAT WITH THEM. IN OTHER WORDS, I THINK THAT
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT CAN WORK HARD, IN CONSULTATION
WITH THE PROVINCES AND TERRITORIES, TO INCREASE THE
C.P.P. AND WORK WITH QUEBEC THAT HAS ITS OWN SYSTEM THE
Q.P. P. YOU DON’T REINVENT THE
WHEEL. AS A MATTER OF PUBLIC
ADMINISTRATION, YOU TRY TO USE WHAT’S ALREADY THERE.
[SPEAKING IN FRENCH]>>MERCI.
[SPEAKING IN FRENCH]>>.
[SPEAKING IN FRENCH] [SPEAKING IN ENGLISH]
SO YES. WE REALIZE THIS EVENING
MR. HARPER’S NOW WILLING TO ADMIT THAT WE’RE IN A
RECESSION. THIS THEY TAUGHT US IN LAW
SCHOOL, AN ADMISSION IS THE BEST FORM OF EVIDENCE SO HE
ADMITTED THAT.>>[SPEAKING IN FRENCH] [SPEAKING IN ENGLISH]
I THINK THAT WE ACHIEVED WHAT WE SET OUT TO ACHIEVE,
WHICH IS TO SHOW THAT WE HAVE THE LEADERSHIP AND THE
EXPERIENCE TO REPLACE STEPHEN HARPER’S POLITICS OF
FEAR AND DIVISION WITH A POLITICS OF HOPE AND
OPTIMISM, AND WE DID THAT IN A DEBATE THAT COVERED A
FAIRLY WIDE RANGE OF TOPICS. IT WAS MY FIRST DEBATE AS
PARTY LEADER. I ENJOYED THE EXPERIENCE AND
I’M SURE THERE’S GOING TO BE A LOT MORE EXERCISES OF THIS
NATURE BETWEEN NOW AND THE ELECTION.
>>[SPEAKING IN FRENCH] [SPEAKING IN FRENCH]>>Cynthia: WELCOME BACK TO
OUR ANALYST PACKAGE. WE ARE JOINED AGAIN WITH
SOME MORE DISCUSSION ON THE INS AND OUTS OF THIS DEBATE.
TERROR DID COME UP. WE KNEW THAT IT WAS GOING TO
AND WE ALSO KNEW THAT HARPER WAS GOING TO PLAY THE FEAR
FACTOR AND TALK ABOUT HOW HE HAD HAD TO BE THE ONE
STAYING THE CORPSE. HE’S THE BEST TO PROTECT US
FROM GLOBAL TERRORISM AND HE HAD AN INTERESTING EXCHANGE
WITH TRUDEAU WE’LL RUN RIGHT NOW AND HARPER DEFENDING WHY
CANADA IS INVOLVED IN THE WAR ON TERROR ABROAD.
>>Prime Minister Harper: I DON’T THINK THIS
GOVERNMENT’S ACTUALLY GOT INVOLVED IN MANY MILITARY
ACTIONS BUT WE ARE CERTAINLY INVOLVED IN ONE NOW AGAINST
ISIS THE SO-CALLED ISLAM, STATE IN IRAQ AND SYRIA.
IT’S NOT TRUE WHAT MR. MULCAIR SAYS.
NOT A FEW NATO ALLIES. ALL OF OUR NATO ALLIES
SUPPORT THIS AND NOT ONLY OUR NATO ALLIES.
VIRTUALLY ALL OF THE COUNTRIES OF THE REGION, THE
MUSLIM REGION THEY SUPPORT THIS.
THE REASON THEY SUPPORT THIS IS THIS ORGANIZATION HAS
BECOME THE GLOBAL NERVE CENTRE OF A VIOLENT JIHADIST
MOVEMENT THAT IS NOT ONLY THREATENING, LITERALLY
SLAUGHTERING HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE IN IRAQ
AND SYRIA BEFORE WE INTERVENED BUT IS A THREAT
TO THE ENTIRE REGION AND A THREAT TO THE ENTIRE GLOBE.
IT HAS SINGLED OUT CANADA AND CANADIANS BY NAME AND
HAS DEMONSTRATED THE ABILITY TO CARRY OUT ATTACKS IN
COUNTRIES LIKE OURS. IT WOULD BE ABSOLUTELY
FOOLISH FOR US NOT, NOT TO GO AFTER THIS GROUP BEFORE
THEY COME AFTER US.>>Cynthia: I THOUGHT THAT
WAS HIS MOST REAL, INTENSE MOMENT.
>>YEAH.>>I THOUGHT HE WAS VERY
STRONG THERE. I THOUGHT HE WAS ABLE TO
LOOK AT THE OTHER LEADERS AND SAY YOUR POSITIONS ARE
FOOLISH. AND I THINK CANADIANS
ACTUALLY BUY THAT. CANADIANS BUY THAT MAYBE
THERE IS SOMETHING WORTHWHILE IN STOPPING WHAT
IS CURRENTLY PROBABLY THE BIGGEST GENOCIDAL FORCE IN
THE WORLD. I THINK CANADIANS REMEMBER
RWANDA AND REMEMBER THE LIBERAL LEADER AT THE TIME
SAYING WE’RE NOT DOING ENOUGH.
I THINK CANADIANS LOOK AT THIS AND THEY BUY HARPER’S
LINES ON THIS.>>IT’S A SORT OF ISSUE
WHICH THE SERVING PRIME MINISTER HAS AN OBVIOUS
ADVANTAGE. NOT TRUE OF EVERY ISSUE.
THESE KIND OF FOREIGN ISSUES THERE’S A NATURAL TENDENCY
FOR PEOPLE TO WANT TO HEAR WHAT THE SITTING PRIME
MINISTER SAYS AND GIVE HIM A FAIR AMOUNT OF THE BENEFIT
OF THE DOUBT HE’S SEEING THINGS WITH A SORT OF SOBER
EYE. I THINK HARPER PLAYS THAT
ONE PRETTY WELL. POLLS GOING BACK TO EARLY
2014 HAVE SHOWN HE TENDS TO DO WELL, TENDS TO PICK UP
WHEN INTERNATIONAL NEWS IS IN THE AIR.
DOESN’T DO QUITE AS WELL WHEN DOMESTIC STORIES ARE
DOMINATING THE HEADLINES.>>HE SAID THIS RIGHT AT THE
START, WHEN HE WAS STANDING IN FRONT OF RIDEAU HALL.
HE SAID THIS IS GOING TO BE ABOUT TWO THINGS, THE
ECONOMY AND NATIONAL SECURITY.
AND HE’S FOCUSED ON THAT. HE REALLY WANTED TO HIT HOME
WITH THIS TOPIC, DISCUSSING THE MISSION AGAINST ISIS AS
WELL AS BILL C-51, DEFENDING THAT AGAINST THE ONSLAUGHT
FROM THE OTHER LEADERS. BUT HE STOOD HIS GROUND ON
THIS AND HE WAS VERY PASSIONATE ABOUT IT.
I THINK HE SCORED A LOT EVERY POINTS AND HE ALSO
REALLY DID SPELL IT OUT WHEN HE SAID, IF YOU WANT TO BE
PRIME MINISTER, YOU HAVE TO MAKE THESE TOUGH DECISIONS.
>>Cynthia: THAT WAS A GOOD MOMENT OF HIS.
OK. WE ARE GOING TO WRAP THIS UP
FOR NOW. WE WILL BE BACK WITH MORE OF
THIS DISCUSSION. RIGHT NOW I’M THROWING IT
OVER TO TAMMIE SUTH ER HANDLED, WHO IS AT SENECA
COLLEGE WITH THE YOUTH VOTE ON FOREIGN POLICY.
TAMMIE?>>Tammie: THANKS VERY MUCH,
CYNTHIA. THE FINAL ISSUE IN THE
DEBATE TONIGHT WAS FOREIGN POLICY AND NATIONAL SECURITY,
AN ISSUE THAT HAS DEFINITELY GAINED MORE TRACTION EVER
SINCE THE TWO TERROR ATTACKS ON CANADIAN SOIL THIS PAST
FALL. I’M JOINED NOW LIVE BY MUBIN
SHAIKH, FORMER COUNTERTERRORISM OPERATIVE
WITH CSIS AS WELL AS THE RCMP.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.
YOU DEFINITELY HAVE A UNIQUE PERSPECTIVE ON THIS TOPIC.
FOR THOSE WHO ARE NOT FAMILIAR, GIVE US A LITTLE
BIT OF YOUR BACKGROUND.>>I WAS BORN AND RAISED IN
TORONTO, CANADA, WENT THROUGH A PETER OF
RADICALIZATION. 9/11 ACTUALLY MADE ME
RETHINK MY VIEWS. WENT TO SIR IAV, DE
RADICALIZED AND CAME TO CANADA, WORKING A NUMBER OF
INFILTRATION OPERATIONS FOR CSIS ONE OF WHICH MOVED ON
TO THE BECOME THE TORONTO 18 TERRORISM CASE.
>>Tammie: WE’RE GOING TO THROW IT TO GROWN PARTY
LEADER ELIZABETH MAY WHO’S JUST COME TO THE PODIUM TO
SPEAK.>>A VERY POSITIVE
EXPERIENCE, AND I THINK WITH THE OTHER LEADERS WE
DISPLAYED AN ABILITY TO DISCUSS ISSUES IN, FOR THE
MOST PART, A CIVIL FWATION AND I’M OPEN TO ANY
QUESTIONS YOU MIGHT HAVE.>>HOW DO YOU THINK YOU DID
TONIGHT?>>OH, I’M — MY DAUGHTER
SAYS I DID GREAT, AND I HAD AN E-MAIL FROM MY BROTHER IN
CAPE BRETON WHO SAID I WON THE DE BEAT SO I’M JUST VERY
PLEASED WITH BEING ABLE TO COMMUNICATE CLEARLY ON A
WIDE RANGE OF SUBJECTS, IF NOTHING ELSE I HOPE I
DEMONSTRATED FOR CANADIANS THAT THE GREEN PARTY IS NOT
A ONE-ISSUE PARTY.>>HOW MANY SEATS DO YOU
THINK YOUR PARTY CAN ACTUALLY WIN?
LIKE REALISTICALLY.>>WELL, WE’RE RUNNING IN
338, SO SOMEWHERE SHY OF THAT.
I THINK REALISTICALLY, WE CAN WIN MANY MORE SEATS THAN
WE HAVE NOW, AND I’M NOT PREPARED TO PUT A NUMBER ON
THAT BECAUSE I — I’M A LITTLE BIT SUPERSTITIOUS, I
SHOULD SAY. BUT I’M VERY CONFIDENT WE’LL
WIN A GOOD NUMBER OF SEATS, AND IN A MINORITY PARLIAMENT,
WHICH IS THE POINT I WAS TRYING TO MAKE TONIGHT, AS
OFTEN AS I COULD. IN A MINORITY PARLIAMENT, A
GROUP OF MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT IN A PARTY THAT’S
PREPARED TO BE COLLABORATIVE AND COOPERATIVE CAN ACTUALLY
MAKE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN INSECURE, FRACTIOUS
TWO-YEAR PARLIAMENT AND A PRODUCTIVE, HARDWORKING
FOUR-YEAR PARLIAMENT. SO IN A PARLIAMENTARY
DEMOCRACY, A GROUP OF GREEN M.P.s ELECTED IN THIS NEXT
ELECTION, WILL CHANGE THE NATURE OF PARLIAMENT AS WELL
AS IMPROVING THE LEVEL OF GOVERNMENT AND THE QUALITY
OF GOVERNMENT CANADIANS RECEIVE.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? YEAH.
OH. THAT’S WHY YOU THOUGHT THERE
WERE NO MORE QUESTIONS. I GET IT NOW.
LINEUP AT THE MIC. OK.
>>IN 2011, A LOT OF DEBATE REVOLVED AROUND THE ISSUE OF
COALITION. WE DIDN’T SEE THAT TONIGHT.
WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS? IS THAT —
>>IN 2008, WE ACTUALLY DIDN’T DISCUSS A COALITION.
>>2011, SORRY.>>AND IN 2011, OF COURSE I
WASN’T IN THOSE DEBATES. I WATCHED THEM.
I DON’T RECALL THAT THE COALITION ISSUE CAME UP VERY
MUCH AS A DISCUSSION POINT IN THOSE LEADERS’ DEBATES.
BUT THE REALITY OF IT IS WE ARE IN A WESTMINSTER
PARLIAMENTARY SYSTEM WHERE COALITION GOVERNMENTS ARE
COMPLETELY LEGITIMATE. WE JUST HAD ONE IN THE LAST
BRITISH GOVERNMENT UNDER DAVID CAMERON IN A COALITION
WITH NICK CLEGG. WE’VE SEEN CO-OPERATION IN
CANADA FA MORE FREQUENTLY THAN WE’VE SEEN COALITION
AND THAT’S WHY I DREW ATTENTION TO THE GOVERNMENT
OF LESTER B. PEARSON. I THINK ALTHOUGH IT WAS 50
YEARS AGO, A LOT OF CANADIANS ARE VERY TOUCHED
TO THE VALUES THAT WERE EXEMPLIFIED IN A PARLIAMENT
WHICH WAS MORE RESPECTFUL, THAT SHOWED A WILLNESS TO
DO — TO REALLY TAKE LARGE STEPS FORWARD FOR THE GOOD
OF THE WHOLE COUNTRY, STEPS LIKE OUR NATIONAL HEALTH
KAUR SYSTEM AND CANADIAN — CANADA PENSION PLAN AND
UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE, AS WELL AS THE FLAG.
WERE PRODUCTIVE AND EXTREMELY FORWARD-LOOKING
STEPS BY A PARLIAMENT THAT WAS A MINORITY.
SO I THINK CANADIANS KNOW THAT MINORITY PARLIAMENTS
CAN WORK BETTER THAN MAJORITIES AND THE OTHER
CONCERN I HAVE, WHICH PAUL WELLS STARTED OUT WITH, IS
WE’RE ALLOWING OUR SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT TO INCREASINGLY
BECOME AN ELECTED DICTATORSHIP WITH PRIME
MINISTERS WALKING INTO THE PRIME MINISTER’S OFFICE AND
FINDING ALL THE LEVERS OF POWER THEY NEED TO CONTROL
NOT JUST THEIR OWN M.P.s AND NOT JUST TURN CABINET
MINISTERS INTO CIPHERS FOR POLICIES DEVELOPED IN P.M.O.,
BUT ALSO REACHED OUT, SUPPRESS THE CIVIL SERVICE
AND GAG SCIENTISTS, AND EVEN HURL INSULTS AT THE SUPREME
COURT OF CANADA. SO WE NEED TO REDUCE THE
POWER OF THE PRIME MINISTER’S OFFICE REGARDLESS
OF WHO THE PRIME MINISTER IS.
>>OK.>>Tammie: AND THAT WAS
GREEN PARTY LEADER ELIZABETH MAY SPEAKING TO THE MEDIA
AFTER THE DEBATE. WE’RE BACK WITH MUBIN SHAIKH,
FORMER COUNTERTERRORISM OPERATIVE.
YOU WERE HERE WATCHING THE DEBATE WITH US.
IN YOUR OPINION, WHO PERFORMED THE BEST,
ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO NATIONAL SECURITY ISSUES?
>>I’M GOING TO HAVE TO SAY JUSTIN TRUDEAU, LARGELY
BECAUSE OF THE SPECIFIC POINTS THAT WERE MADE.
IN FOREIGN POLICY HE TOOK A BALANCED POSITION,
CRITICIZING THE N.D.P.’s DO-NOTHING APPROACH VERSUS
THE CONSERVATIVES’ DO-EVERYTHING APPROACH.
SECONDLY HE TALKED ABOUT PARLIAMENTARY OVERSIGHT OF
NATIONAL SECURITY. THIS I THINK IS A VERY, VERY
IMPORTANT ISSUE. WHILE THE N.D.P. CALLS TO
REPEAL C-51, THAT REALLY DOESN’T DEAL WITH LAWS THAT
ARE ALREADY ON THE BOOKS. THERE NEEDS TO BE OVERSIGHT.
OF COURSE HARPER’S COMMENT WAS I DON’T APPROVE OF THAT
KIND OF OVERSIGHT. WE’RE TALKING ABOUT THE
PARLIAMENT. TALKING ABOUT ELECTED
MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT WHO NEED TO BE ACCOUNTABLE TO
THE PUBLIC. NUMBER THREE, JUSTIN
TRUDEAU’s THE FIRST ONE TO TALK ABOUT COUNTER
RADICALIZATION. THAT WAS VERY, VERY
IMPORTANT ESPECIALLY IN THE TOPIC OF RADICALIZATION IN
GENERAL. HE ADDED TO THAT NOT
ENGAGING IN DIVISIVE NARRATIVES.
WHEN WE’RE TALKING ABOUT DIVISIVE NARRATIVES WE DON’T
WANT TO ISOLATE AND ALIENATE THE MUSLIM COMMUNITY IN
PARTICULAR. THIS IS A CONCERN THAT A LOT
OF CRITICS OF C-51 HAVE HAD AND RIGHTFULLY SO MUCH THE
MUSLIM COMMUNITY I THINK FROM THE PRACTITIONER
BACKGROUND, IF YOU ISOLATE AND ALIENATE THE COMMUNITIES
FROM WHICH YOU’RE GETTING YOUR INTELLIGENCE, YOU’RE
GETTING YOUR UNDERCOVER OPERATORS YOU’RE GOING TO
COMPROMISE YOUR NATIONAL SECURITY.
>>Tammie: WHY DO YOU THINK NATIONAL SECURITY IS A BIG
AND SUCH A HUGE ISSUE IN THIS CAMPAIGN?
>>I THINK FEAR SELLS AND IRK SIS HAS BEEN SELLING IT
AND WE’RE BUYING INTO IT. ELIZABETH MAY MADE A GOOD
POINT. IF WE RUSH INTO IT AND SAY
BOMB THEM ALL, THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT ISIS WANTS.
WE’RE FEEDING INTO THEIR NARRATIVE.
WE’RE SEEING ISIS VIDEOS ALL THE TIME, AND SO FOR A LOT
OF PEOPLE THIS SEEMS TO BE THE GREATEST THREAT BUT
REALLY, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBERS, IT REALLY ISN’T
THAT GREAT A THREAT.>>Tammie: OK.
THANK YOU SO MUCH, MUBIN, FOR JOINING US HERE.
OVER TO JODI VANCE NOW IN VANCOUVER.
>>THANKS SO MUCH, CYNTHIA. THANK YOU VERY MUCH,
CYNTHIA. WE ARE AT U.B.C. WITH MAX
CAMERON, WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF THE CENTRE FOR THE STUDY
OF DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTIONS DEPARTMENT OF U.B.C. HERE.
THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.>>MY PLEASURE.
>>FIRST AND FOREMOST LET’S TALK ABOUT HOW BRITISH
COLUMBIA WAS REPRESENTED IN THIS DEBATE IN YOUR OPINION.
>>I THINK IT WAS A REALLY GOOD DEBATE, LIVELY DEBATE.
BRITISH COLUMBIA YANNS ARE GOING TO BE INTERESTED IN
VERY MUCH THE SAME ISSUES. THIS IS A PROVINCE THAT CARE
AS LOT ABOUT THE EARN VINE — ENVIRONMENT.
THE ISSUE OF PIPELINES, TANKERS AND OIL SPILLS.
TAME IT’S A RESOURCE BASED ECONOMY.
L.N.G.DEVELOPMENT IS CRITICAL, AND SO I THINK
IT’S IN SOME RESPECTS A DIVIDED PROVINCE, AND I
THINK WHAT WE SAW IN THE DEBATE WAS THE CONSERVATIVES
MAKING THE CASE FOR RESOURCE DEVELOPMENT FOR L.N.G.AND
ELIZABETH MAY VERY MUCH TAKING THE ENVIRONMENTAL
POSITION AND PUTTING MULCAIR ON THE SPOT REALLY TRYING TO
PRESS HIM TO DEFINE HIS POSITION WITH REGARD TO
KINDER MORGAN. THOSE WERE THE SORTS OF
THINGS BRITISH COLUMBIANS WILL BE WATCHING QUITE
CLOSELY.>>TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT
THE MOOD IN THIS ROOM. IT WAS QUITE INTERESTING TO
HEAR THE JOVIAL SIDE, THE LAUGHTER.
>>IT WAS A LOT OF FUN. WE HAD BINGO CARDS PUT
TOGETHER WHERE PEOPLE COULD SORT OF FOLLOW THE
DISCUSSION, AND WE NEVER — KEY — WHENEVER A FREE —
KEY PHRASE WAS MENTIONED.>>A LOT OF LAUGHTER AND
GIGGLES. IT IS ALL STRAIGHT SHOOTING
RIGHT NOW AS JUSTIN TRUDEAU IS TAKING TO THE PODIUM FOR
HIS POST-DEBATE PRESSER. LET’S THROW IT THERE.
>>WHAT ARE THE DANGERS, IN YOUR MIND, IF HE’S ELECTED
ON OCTOBER 19th, OF TOM MULCAIR BEING PRIME MINISTER
WITH THAT KIND OF POLICY?>>WE’RE IN A VERY IMPORTANT
ELECTION CAMPAIGN RIGHT NOW. WE’VE HAD 10 YEARS OF A
GOVERNMENT THAT’S APPROACH HAS FAILED PARTICULARLY ON
THE ECONOMY, AND WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WE’RE REPLACING
THAT GOVERNMENT WITH A BETTER GOVERNMENT, AND
THAT’S WHY I’M PROUD OF THE LIBERAL PLAN WE’VE PUT
FORWARD AND I’M VERY, VERY CLEAR ABOUT DISAGREEING WITH
MY OPPONENTS ON ISSUES AROUND THE ECONOMY AND OTHER
ISSUES. AND I THINK THIS DEBATE WAS
AN OPPORTUNITY TO HIGHLIGHT THOSE CONTRASTS.
>>BUT AS FOR MY QUESTION, MY SPECIFIC QUESTION IF I
CAN JUST GET BACK TO IT AND I WON’T BELABOUR THE POINT,
ALTHOUGH I SUPPOSE I HAVE TO, WHICH IS THAT SPECIFIC
POLICY THAT THE N.D.P. HAS, THE ONE THAT YOU RAISED
TONIGHT AND RAISED CONCERNS ABOUT, TELL US NOW RIGHT
HERE WHAT YOU THINK THE RISKS TO CANADA WOULD BE IF
THE N.D.P. WINS WITH THAT POLICY.
>>I THINK THE NICE THING ABOUT ELECTION CAMPAIGNS IS
THAT IT’S CANADIANS WHO GET TO DECIDE WHO BECOMES THE
NEXT PRIME MINISTER, AND I THINK IT’S IMPORTANT THAT
THEY MAKE THAT DECISION BASED ON ALL THE VARIOUS
POSITIONS AND ATTRIBUTES THAT ARE BROUGHT TO THE
TABLE. I THINK MR. MULCAIR’S
POSITION, AS I HIGHLIGHTED OF MAKING IT EASIER TO BREAK
UP THE COUNTRY THAN THE SUPREME COURT SAYS IT SHOULD,
IS NOT A POSITION THAT A PRIME MINISTER OF THIS
COUNTRY SHOULD TAKE.>>PETER KIM WITH “GLOBAL
NEWS.” I’M GOING TO BET THERE WERE
WAY MORE YOUNG PEOPLE TUNING INTO THE DAILY SHOW’S FINAL
EPISODE THAN WATCHING THIS DEBATE AND THAT’S A
STATEMENT ON YOU GUYS AND WHAT THEY THINK ABOUT
POLITICS IN THIS COUNTRY. WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY TO
YOUNG PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY ABOUT WHY THEY SHOULD BE
ENGAGED AND WHY YOUR PARTY IS THE BEST TO LEAD?
>>ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THE POPULARITY OF “THE DAILY
SHOW” AND QUITE FRANKLY THE LEVEL OF ENGAGEMENT THAT
YOUNG PEOPLE SHOW ACROSS THE COUNTRY, WHETHER IT’S IN
LOCAL CAUSES OR BIG SINGLE ISSUE POSITIONING OR
ACTIVISM ON VARIOUS LEVELS IS WE HAVE A GENERATION OF
YOUNG PEOPLE WHO ARE VERY INTERESTED, VERY CONCERNED
ABOUT THE WAY THE WORLD SUN FOLDING.
THE ONE THING THEY’RE NOT PARTICULARLY CONVINCED OF IS
FORMAL ACTIVE POLITICS ACTUALLY HAS ANY ROLE FOR
THEM IN BEING PART OF CHANGING THE WORLD.
THAT’S ONE OF THE THINGS I FOCUS VERY MUCH ON IS
DRAWING IN A NEW GENERATION OF YOUNG PEOPLE TO
UNDERSTAND THAT POLITICS DOESN’T HAVE TO BE AS
CYNICISM INDUCING AS MR. HARPER HAS MADE
T.THERE’S ROOM FOR OPENNESS, THOUGHTFULNESS, FOR BRINGING
IN MULTIPLE POINTS OF VOW AND FOR WORKING TOGETHER TO
ACTUALLY SOLVE THE BIG CHALLENGES, WHETHER IT’S
POVERTY, WHETHER IT’S IN CLIMATE CHANGE, WHETHER IT’S
SOCIAL JUSTICE AND HUMAN RIGHTS.
>>ONE QUICK QUESTION. YOUR CLOSING REMARKS WERE —
THEY WERE — THEY WERE KIND OF HORRIBLE.
LIKE WHAT MESSAGE WERE YOU TRYING TO COMMUNICATE WITH
THOSE CLOSING REMARKS? BECAUSE THEY WERE MARKEDLY
DIFFERENT FROM EVERYONE ELSE’S.
>>WHAT I WAS COMMUNICATING WAS THE CONNECTION THAT I’VE
BEEN BLESSED TO HAVE WITH CANADIAN ALL MY LIFE.
THE FACT IS, OVER THE PAST THREE YEARS, I’VE SPENT TIME
CRISSCROSSING THIS COUNTRY, LISTENING TO PEOPLE, TALKING
WITH PEOPLE, TALKING ABOUT THE KIND OF FUTURE THAT WE
WANT TO BUILD. MR. HARPER’S VISION FOR THIS
COUNTRY IS ONE THAT SAYS WE SHOULD BE GRATEFUL FOR WHAT
WE HAVE AND NOT ASPIRE TO ANYMORE.
WELL, I DISAGREE WITH THAT AND I KNOW CANADIANS
DISAGREE WITH THAT AND THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT I WAS
HAPPY TO ADDRESS IN MY CLOSE.
>>HI. UNDEREMPLOYMENT RATE FOR
PEOPLE 15 TO 24 WAS 14.3% IN 2012 COMPARED TO 6% FOR
PEOPLE 25 AND OVER. WHAT ARE YOUR SPECIFIC PLANS
TO ADDRESS YOUTH UNDEREMPLOYMENT?
>>THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS WE NEED TO GET YOUNG PEOPLE
INTO THE WORK FORCE. WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT
MAKING SURE THAT THEY CAN START JOBS, START THEIR
CAREERS WITHOUT BEING BURDENED BY STUDENT DEBT, TO
MAKE SURE WE’RE WORKING WITH INDUSTRIES, WORKING WITH
CORPORATIONS, WORKING WITH SCHOOLS AND PARTNERS TO MAKE
SURE THAT THERE’S A PATH TO EMPLOYMENT FOR YOUNG PEOPLE
THAT QUITE FRANKLY THEY’RE WORRIED ABOUT.
WE HAVE FAR TOO MANY YOUNG PEOPLE LEAVING SCHOOL AND
HAVING TO MOVE BACK IN WITH THEIR PARENTS RATHER THAN
START OFF ON THEIR OWN AND THAT’S A REFLECTION OF AN
ECONOMY THAT’S NOT GROWING THE RIGHT WAY BUT ALSO OF A
GOVERNMENT THAT HASN’T UNVESTED IN THE KIND OF
SUPPORT FOR YOUNG PEOPLE THAT WE ACTUALLY NEED.
>>CAN YOU BE MORE SPECIFIC?>>Cynthia: AND WE ARE BACK
WITH OUR PANEL. NOW I THINK TRUDEAU DID
BETTER THAN EXPECTED BUT I THINK HE NEEDED TO DO BETTER
STILL BECAUSE HE’S BEEN BATTERED SO BADY BY THAT
ATTACK AD FROM THE CONSERVATIVES.
>>YEAH.>>HE’S BEEN PRACTISING FOR
MONTHS AND MONTHS AND MONTHS.
THE NUMBER OF FAKE DEBATES AND PRACTICE DEBATES THEY’VE
HAD IS PROBABLY A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT NUMBER.
THEY BROUGHT IN SHEILA COPPS — COPPS TO PLAY THE ROLE OF
ELIZABETH MAY. THEY HAD A STAR-STUDDEDED
CAST OF PEOPLE FILLING IN FOR THE DEBATE PREP.
AND I THINK IT PAID OFF. THEY SHOULD BE VERY HAPPY
WITH HOW HE DID TONIGHT. WAS IT A CLEAR WIN?
NO, BUT HE DID WELL.>>THEY SHOULD BE HAPPY UP
UNTIL THE CLOSING REMARKS, WHICH HE WAS SLOW AND
STILTED ON FOR SOME ODD REASON.
>>Cynthia: AND AWKWARD.>>MUCH BETTER IN THE SCRUMS
JUST NOW. HE’S LUCKY HE HAD THE SCRUMS
TO MAYBE ERASE A LITTLE BIT OF THAT CLOSING REMARKS
THING. I THINK HE SPOKE A LITTLE
FASTER TONIGHT. YOU THOUGHT HE WAS ZINGY.
I THOUGHT HE WAS A LITTLE RUSHED AT TIMES WHICH IS
SOMETHING WE ASSOCIATE WITH MULCAIR.
>>A LITTLE ANGRY, TOO. YELLING A BIT.
>>INTERRUPTING.>>PASSIONATE.
>>GOOD IN PLACES. HARD TO TELL.
I THINK IF YOU WERE WATCHING THE WHOLE THING YOU WOULD
GET A CERTAIN IMPRESSION MAYBE BEING A LITTLE TOO HOT
AT TIMES. SOME OF THOSE CLIPS WILL
PROBABLY BE QUITE EFFECTIVE WHEN YOU SEE THEM ISOLATED.
>>Cynthia: WE’LL BE SEEING THEM IN EACH OTHER’S ATTACK
ADS.>>OH, FOR SURE.
THAT’S THE ONE BIG CHANGE THE CONSERVATIVES BROUGHT IN
WITH THE NEW ELECTION LAWS. WHAT PUTS THE FOCUS ON A LOT
OF WHAT EVERYBODY’S BEEN SAYING IS THEY’RE NOW ABLE
TO USE NEWS CLIPS IN ATTACK ADS TO EITHER PROMOTE THEIR
LEADER OR ATTACK THE OTHERS. I THINK WE WILL PROBABLY BE
SEEING A FEW OF THEM ON CONSERVATIVE ATTACK ADS AT
LOWS.>>Cynthia: THEY GENERATED A
LOT OF MATERIAL. ELIZABETH MAY.
WERE YOU SURPRISED AT HOW WELL, SHE DID, HOW
ARTICULATE SHE WAS?>>SHE WAS TERRIFIC.
>>REALLY GOOD. I THINK WE KNEW THAT SHE HAD
A GOOD ABILITY AT EFFECTIVELY GETTING HER
POINT ACROSS. AS I THINK JOHN HAD
MENTIONED EARLIER, SOMETIMES ELIZABETH MAY TENDS TO
RAMBLE. SHE WAS PREPARED.
SHE KEPT HER ANSWERS SHORT. SHE ATTACKED.
SHE BROUGHT UP A LOT OF EXAMPLES.
SHE PROVED WHAT SHE WAS TRYING TO SAY AND GET ACROSS
AND THEN SHE REALLY EFFECTIVELY GOT HER MESSAGE.
>>SHE WENT AFTER MULCAIR IN B.C.
SHE MADE SOME SPECIFIC POINTS ESPECIALLY ON THE
PIPELINES. WHAT SHE DID TONIGHT, SHE
DIDN’T PROVE THAT SHE SHOULD BE PRIME MINISTER.
SHE PROVED SHE SHOULD HAVE TWO, THREE, FOUR, FIVE, SIX,
SEVEN, EIGHT, NINE, 10 M.P.s IN THE HOUSE OF COMMONS.
>>Cynthia: WHY DON’T WE TAKE HER CLIP ON BILL C-51?
SHE WAS VERY WELL SPOKEN ON THIS ISSUE.
>>C-51. THERE’S NO OVERSIGHT AT ALL.
AND IF YOU LISTEN TO SECURITY EX PERSONALITIES
AND I URGE ANYONE WATCH TOG GO ONLINE AND FIND THE
EVIDENCE OF JOE FOGARTY WHO WAS AN MI-5 AGENT FROM THE
U.K. DOING LIAISON INTELLIGENCE WORK WITH
CANADA. THIS C-51 ANTITERRORISM ACT
MAKES US LESS SAFE. IT IS NOT CONFRONTING
TERRORISM. IT IS VERY LIKELY TO MAKE US
LESS ABLE TO DISRUPT PLOTS, WHILE AT THE SAME TIME
ERODING OUR FREEDOMS.>>Cynthia: AND ONE LITTLE
OUCH MOMENT TO TELL THE AUDIENCE ABOUT.
A LITTLE TWITTER GAFFE OR A SOCIAL MEDIA GAFFE FROM THE
PRIME MINISTER’S OFFICE.>>YEAH MUCH IT’S KIND OF
HARD TO COME OUT AND DECLARE THAT THE PRIME MINISTER HAS
WON THIS DEBATE AND IT’S A LITTLE BIT EMBARRASSING WHEN
YOU MISSPELL THE WORD PRIME MINISTER.
>>Cynthia: THERE IT IS. PRIME MINSTER.
>>NO ONE — I MAKE SPELLING MISTAKES.
>>DID I TAKE A LOOK AT THE TWITTER ACCOUNT AGAIN.
THEY HAVE FIXED THE SPELLING VERY QUICKLY.
>>Cynthia: STILL A LITTLE EMBARRASSMENT.
>>THE FACT THE PRIME MINISTER IS NOT SPEAKING TO
REPORTERS AFTER THIS EVENT. THAT IS ACTUALLY FOR ME
UNCONSCIONABLE. ALL THE OTHER LEADERS ARE
STANDING OUT THERE AND ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW
THEY DID ABOUT THEIR POLICY, THEIR PLATFORM, WHAT THEY
SUPPORT AND BELIEVE IN. STEPHEN HARPER JUST TOOK
OFF. IT’S PART OF A LONG SERIES
OF TACTICS THE PRIME MINISTER’S HAD TO AVOID THE
MEDIA AND TO NOT TAKE QUESTIONS.
>>Cynthia: HE CAN’T CONTROL THE CROWD, THE MEDIA
SITUATION.>>CAN’T CONTROL THE
QUESTIONS THEY’RE ASKING. CAN’T CONTROL WHAT THEY WANT
TO ASK HIM. SO HE JUST RUNS.
>>THERE HE WAS HAVING A PRETTY GOOD NIGHT.
REMEMBER IN 2011, HOW WE ALL SAID AFTER A THE DEBATE WAS
IT WAS ODD HOW HE DID NOT ENGAGE WITH THE OTHER
LEADERS. HE REFUSED TO LOOK AT THEM.
HE WOULD ONLY ENGAGE WITH THE CAMERA OR OCCASIONALLY
THE MONITOR. HE DIDN’T DO THAT THIS TIME.
HE WAS LOCKING OVER. QUITE OFTEN HAD CAMERAS
WHERE WE SAW HIM VERY DIRECTLY WATCHING, EVEN
WATCHING WHEN EXCHANGES WERE BETWEEN THE OTHER LEADERS.
NONE OF THAT SORT OF ALOOFNESS.
HE EITHER WAS JUST MORE RELAXED TODAY OR THEIR
INTERPRETATION OF THE WAY IT WENT OVER LAST TIME WAS IT
WASN’T A WINNER FOR HIM TO SEEM THAT DISTANT OR
DETACHED.>>Cynthia: ON THAT NOTE WE
HAVE TO WRAP BRIEFLY. RIGHT NOW, GORD, IT’S OVER
TO YOU.>>Gord: CANADIANS FROM
COAST TO COAST TOOK IN TONIGHT’S BIG DEBATE.
THE PANEL WATCHED AND LISTENED CLOSELY IN MONCTON,
NEW BRUNSWICK, TO HEAR THE LEADERS DEBATE THE ISSUES
AND TRY TO WIN YOUR VOTE. ALSO WE WERE IN MONTREAL.
THERE, TOO, THE VOTERS HAVE BEEN — HAVE BEEN WATCHING
AND CONSIDERING AND WAITING. NOW LET’S CHECK IN WITH
ROGER PETERSEN WITH THE Facebook RESPONSE TO
TONIGHT’S DEBATE. ROGER?>>Roger: THANKS VERY MUCH,
GORD. IT HAS BEEN AN INTERESTING
NIGHT. KEVIN CHAN JOINS US FROM
Facebook, THE HEAD OF PUBLIC POLICY THERE.
WE TALKED — WE’VE HAD SEVERAL POLLS THROUGHOUT THE
NIGHT. WE STARTED THE NIGHT WITH
WHO WOULD BE THE BEST LEADER, WHO WOULD BE THE ONE.
SHOULD WE BRING THAT ONE UP FIRST, KEVIN?
>>SURE. GOING INTO IT, WE SAW THAT
MR. HARPER WAS CLEARLY THE ONE THAT HAD THE MOST
CONVERSATIONS ATTRIBUTE TODAY HIM ON Facebook.
THAT WAS THE LAST TWO MONTHS.
WE SAW MR. TRUDEAU SECOND. MR. MULCAIR AND ELIZABETH
MAY AS THE LAST ONE.>>Roger: NOW THOUGH, WITH
THE CONVERSATION THAT IS WENT ON THROUGHOUT THE NIGHT
OVER THE LAST TWO HOURS, OK. WE’VE GOT THE WRONG ONE UP.
LET’S GET THIS ONE RIGHT NOW.
THIS IS WHAT WE’RE LOOKING AT FOR ISSUES DURING THE
DEBATE. ORIGINALLY THEY WERE A FAR
DIFFERENT LINEUP HERE. ECONOMY’S STILL NUMBER ONE
BUT IT’S ENVIRONMENT AND ENERGY THAT HAS MOVED UP
SIGNIFICANTLY TONIGHT. WE SAW QUITE THE CHANGE WITH
THAT. IT WAS NUMBER SIX.
>>A FASCINATING LOO LOOK AT REALTIME CONVERSATIONS
DURING THE DEBATE AMONG CANADIANS ACROSS THE
COUNTRY. WE SEE ENVIRONMENT AND
ENERGY GOING INTO THE DEBATE.
IT WAS NUMBER SIX SO NOBODY REALLY SAW THIS AS A
PRIORITY. AND THROUGH THE COURSE OF
THE DEBATE AND THE JOUSTING BETWEEN DIFFERENT POLITICAL
LEADERS WE SEE THAT’S ACTUALLY MOVED TO NUMBER
TWO. SO CLEARLY THE DEBATE HAD
THIS EFFECT OF MOVING THE CONVERSATION ON ENERGY AND
THE ENVIRONMENT VAULTING IT ABOVE GOVERNANCE ISSUES
ABOVE FOREIGN POLICY SO THAT’S A REALLY INTERESTING
CHANGE IN THE CONVERSATION.>>Roger: IT DOES AND IT MAX
YOU THINK WHERE THIS MIGHT HEAD DOWN THE ROAD.
I KNOW THESE ARE JUST CONVERSATIONS BUT
CONVERSATIONS ARE WHAT CAN CHANGE ELECTIONS, RIGHT?
PEOPLE TALK AND THAT’S HOW THINGS COME ABOUT.
AND I’M TRYING TO — IF WE COULD GO BACK TO THE
ORIGINAL ONE WITH ISSUES. WHAT WAS SECOND AND
ENVIRONMENT SIX. A BIT AFTER SWING.
>>THE ECONOMY NUMBER ONE. WE HAD SORT OF GOVERNANCE
ISSUES AT NUMBER TWO. AGAIN ENERGY WAS NUMBER SIX.
WE HAVE 20 MILLION CANADIANS ON Facebook TALKING ABOUT
POLITICAL THINGS MUCH THIS IS A VERY INTERESTING WAY TO
SORT OF SEE IN REAL TIME HOW IS THAT CONVERSATION
CHANGING ON Facebook AS PEOPLE ARE ENGAGING WITH THE
LEADERS AND WITH THE PARTIES FOR THE DEBATES?
>>Roger: OK. IF WE CAN BRING UP THOSE
LEADER BOARDS AND TAKE A LOOK HOW IT SHAPES UP FROM
BEFORE AND NOW AFTER THE DEBATE.
SO THIS WAS MOST DISCUSSED LEADERS DURING THE DEBATE.
NO SURPRISE STEPHEN HARPER WAS FIRST BEFORE.
THE BIG ONE IS ELIZABETH MAY.
THAT’S THE SURPRISE.>>YEAH.
REALLY I MEAN WE GO BACK TO AGAIN THE MOST TALKED ABOUT
OR THE MOST CONVERSED MOMENT ON Facebook IT REALLY WAS
ELIZABETH MAY. WE SEE THAT BEARING OUT
AGAIN IN TERMS OF THE CONVERSATIONS DURING THE
DEBATE. WE SEE ELIZABETH MAY HAS
VAULTED ABOVE MR. MULCAIR. SHE REALLY SEEMS TO HAVE
STOOD OUT FROM THE CROWD FROM THE FOUR LEADERS THAT
WERE OUT THERE. ELIZABETH MAY SEEMS TO HAVE
PUNCHED THROUGH AND IN TERMS OF ENGAGEMENT ON Facebook,
AMONG 20 MILLION CANADIANS DURE THE DEBATE SHE’S TRULY
MOVED HERSELF FORWARD AND REALLY POSITIONED HER
WELCOMING OUT OF THE DEBATES.
>>Gord: THAT IS SHOWING>>Roger: THAT IS SHOWING
FROM THAT MOMENT EE WE USED EARLIER THIS HOUR WHEN SHE
TALKED ABOUT ENERGY AND CONSUMPTION AND REDUCTION IN
POLLUTION ONLY CAME WITH THE RECESSION.
THAT WAS THE MOMENT PEOPLE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE MOST.
>>IT JUST SEEMS LIKE — WHETHER IT’S WHAT SHE SAID
ABOUT THE ENERGY, ABOUT ENERGY AND ENVIRONMENT AND
THE DEBATE THERE OR IF IT’S ABOUT WHO REALLY SHONE IN
THE DEBATES, SHE’S REALLY BEEN ABLE TO STAND OUT.
AND SO THAT’S A VERY INTERESTING FIND — FINDING.
AGAIN THIS IS BAYED ON REAL CONVERSATIONS WITH REAL
CANADIANS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
>>Roger: OF COURSE THESE CONVERSATIONS WILL CONTINUE.
>>ABSOLUTELY.>>Roger: YOU’LL BE ABLE TO
SEE WHERE THEY GO FROM HERE. WHAT WILL WE SEE OVER THE
NEXT LITTLE WHILE WITH THESE CONVERSATIONS?
YOU’LL BE TRACKING THEM OBVIOUSLY.
>>WE’LL BE FOLLOWING THEM ON AN AGGREGATE LEVEL.
WE DON’T KNOW WHAT INDIVIDUALS ARE SAYING ABOUT
LEADERS BUT WE KNOW AS A TREND LINE LOOKING AT THE
REAL CONVERSATIONS WE CAN SAY ON AGGREGATE THESE
LEADERS ARE HAVING THE MOST CONVERSATIONS VERSUS OTHERS.
NOW OF COURSE WE DON’T KNOW IF THESE ARE POSITIVE
COMMENTS OR CRITICAL COMMENTS.
WHAT WE CAN SAY IS THAT THEY’RE GENERATING A LOT OF
ENGAGEMENT, SO COMMENTS, LIKES, SHARES AND ALSO
SPONTANEOUS POSTS BY CANADIANS TALKING ABOUT
THEIR LEADERS.>>Roger: AND IT WILL
CONTINUE ON.>>ABSOLUTELY.
>>Roger: ALL RIGHT, KEVIN. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR
JOINING US TONIGHT. IT’S BEEN A GREAT THREE
HOURS. ACTUALLY EARLIER AS WELL BUT
WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL ON THIS INFORMATION YOU’VE PASSED ON
TO US. WE APPRECIATE YOU TAKING THE
TIME TALKING WITH US. FOR NOW I’LL SEND IT BACK TO
GORD MARTINEAU.>>Gord: THANK YOU.
WITH ME TONIGHT IS MARK BOWDEN.
YOU ARE A BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT.
THAT IS ONE OF THE SUBTLETYS AFTER DEBATE THAT OBSERVERS
LOOK FOR TO SEE HOW THAT MIGHT REGISTER WITH THE
ELECTORATE. YOU SAW THE DEBATE, THE FOUR
LEADERS AND HOW THEY PRESENTED THEMSELVES.
WHAT DID YOU THINK?>>YES.
SO FIRST OF ALL LOOKING AT STEPHEN HARPER.
WHAT WE SAW WAS GOOD SYMMETRICAL BODY LANGUAGE.
>>Gord: MINISTERIAL KIND OF?
>>ABSOLUTELY. IF YOU’RE LOOKING FOR THAT
PRIME MINISTER, YOU’VE GOT THIS SYMMETRICAL BODY
LANGUAGE THERE, VERY STILL, VERY ORDERED IN HIS BODY
LANGUAGE. THERE HE IS AGAIN BE
COMPLETELY SYMMETRICAL. SO IF YOU’RE OUT THERE AND
YOU’RE LOOKING FOR A PRIME MINISTER AND YOU MAY BE
THINKING OF CHANGING YOUR VOTE OR NOT CHANGING YOUR
VOTE, THIS IS WHO YOU MIGHT GO FOR.
>>Gord: BECAUSE YOU THOUGHT THIS IS THE GUY WHO HAS IT
MOST TOGETHER AND IS PRESENTING THE FACTS
CAREFULLY.>>ABSOLUTELY.
HE’S A PAST MASTER AT THIS. LOOK HOW STILL HE IS HERE,
EVEN WHEN LOOKING AT ONE OF HIS ADVERSARIES.
SO HE’S CALM, ASSERTIVE, STILL.
THAT’S THE KIND OF PRIME MINISTER PEOPLE MAY WELL BE
LOOKING FOR.>>Gord: WHAT OTHER
OBSERVATIONS DO YOU HAVE?>>WELL, LET’S LOOK AT
TRUDEAU. SO, AGAIN, GOOD SYMMETRICAL,
BUT YOU’LL NOTICE HE’S TALKING A LOT FASTER SO HE’S
MAYBE TALKING AT ABOUT 140 WORDS PER MINUTE.
>>Gord: AND GESTICULATING.>>ABSOLUTELY, AND IT’S NOT
AS CERTAIN AND AS SURE. AND SO IT’S A LOT MORE
DIFFICULT TO KIND OF WATCH HIM AND GET A GAUGE OF HIM.
SO IS HE CALM AND ASSERTIVE? POSSIBLY NOT AS MUCH AS
HARPER. SO AGAIN IF YOU’RE LOOKING
FOR THAT MINISTERIAL FIGURE, HE’S GOT SOME OF IT BUT HE’S
A LITTLE BIT TOO FAST TO BE FOLLOWED AND A LITTLE BIT
TOO AGITATED.>>Gord: YOU’RE THINKING THE
JEN — GESTURES ARE TAKING AWAY?
>>ABSOLUTELY. IF THEY’RE NOT SYMMETRICAL
AND AGITATED LIKE THIS, THE MESSAGE MAY BE MISSED
SLIGHTLY.>>Gord: TWO OTHER LEADERS
WERE THERE TONIGHT. WHO ELSE DID YOU LOOK AT AND
ANALYZE?>>LET’S TAKE A LOOK AT MAY.
IF SHE’S THE FOIL THERE TO THIS KIND OF THREE-PARTY
DEBATE HAPPENING HERE, SHE’S A LITTLE MORE MUDDLED.
EVEN AT THE START OF THE DEBATE SHE’S MESSING AROUND
THE PAPERS. SHE’S GOT HER HAIR, THE
GLASSES. IT’S A LOT MORE CONFUSED
ESSENTIALLY. THIS MAYBE IS ABOUT THE WAY
SHE’S DRESSED AT TIMES BUT MORE DIFFICULT TO GET INTO
THE EYES BECAUSE OF THE GLASSES.
THE EARRINGS HERE BRING ATTENTION.
THE JEWELLERY HERE, THE BADGES HERE BRING ATTENTION
AND SO IT’S DIFFICULT TO FOCUS ON THE EYES AND THE
MOUTH, WHICH IS WHERE WE READ FOR THAT TRUST.
SO MAYBE A GREAT PERFORMANCE IN THE POLITICS, BUT IN
TERMS OF BEING ABLE TO READ HER AND TRUST HER, IT’S MORE
DIFFICULT FOR ANYBODY WHO MIGHT HAVE A SWING VOTE.
DON’T QUITE KNOW WHO THEY WANT TO VOTE FOR.
>>Gord: OK. AND THOMAS MULCAIR, THE
N.D.P. LEAD EMPL.>>OF COURSE MULCAIR.
YOU KNOW, INTERESTING WITH HIM.
PROBABLY THE MOST INTERESTING PERFORMANCE.
SUPPRESSIVE GESTURES FROM IN THERE YOU’RE SEEING.
ALSO AT TIMES YOU’VE GOT THIS DRAMATIC FACE THAT
HAMS. THE BIG EYEBROWS, THE EYES
THAT COME OUT. AND SUPPRESS TIFF GESTURES
AGAIN — SUPPRESSIVE. TWISTS IN THE BODY AT TOYS
THAT MAKE HIM LOOK KIND OF CYNICAL, NEGATIVE.
>>Gord: YOU SAY THE WORD CYNICAL AND THAT ACTUALLY
CAME TO MIND SOMEONE — AT ONE POINT.
I TRIED HE WAS — I THOUGHT HE WAS TRYING TO BE OVER THE
TOP WITH HIS SINCERITY.>>AND AT TIMES YOU GET THAT
PURSED LIPS SUCKING A LEMON KIND OF GESTURE OF SOURNESS.
SO MAYBE A BIT NEGATIVE AGAIN FOR THE SWING VOTER
WHO’S GOING, IF I DON’T WANT STEPHEN HARPER AS MY PRIME
MINISTER, WHERE’S CALM AND ASSERTIVE AND POSITIVE?
WOULD THEY REALLY GO TO HIM? MAYBE NOT.
>>Gord: MARK BOWDEN, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR INPUT
TONIGHT. SOME INTERESTING
OBSERVATIONS. YOU’RE THE BODY LANGUAGE
EXPERT AND YOU DID WELL TONIGHT.
>>THANKS, GORD.>>Gord: TO MELANIE NG WITH
REACTION FROM THE TWITTERVERSE, MEL.
>>Melanie: THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THAT, GORD.
OF COURSE A LOT OF PEOPLE GO TO GOOGLE AT THEIR FIRST
RESOURCE WHEN IT COPS TO ONLINE SEARCHES.
TONIGHT NO DIFFERENT. AARON BRINDLE FROM GOOGLE
CANADA JOINS ME NOW. IT WAS A BUSY NIGHT FOR YOU.
>>OH, GOSH, SURE WAS. A LOT OF CANADIANS WERE
GOING TO GOGGLE ASKING ALL KINDS OF QUESTIONS IS WHAT
WE FOUND. CANADIANS WERE LOOKING AT
QUESTIONS MOSTLY RELATED TO THE ECONOMY.
OBVIOUSLY THAT WAS THE MAJOR FOCUS RIGHT OFF THE TOP.
AND A LOT OF QUESTIONS — ACTUALLY A LOT OF KIND OF
CLARIFICATIONS. YOU’LL SEE RIGHT OFF THE TOP
DID CANADA HAVE A SURPLUS BEFORE HARPER?
>>Melanie: OF ONE’S TALKING ABOUT THE DEFICIT AND A LOT
OF ATTACKING ON HARPER OVER THAT.
>>RIGHT. CANADIANS WANT TO KNOW, WELL,
ARE WE IN A RECESSION? ECONOMISTS SAY WE’RE IN A
TECHNICAL RECESSION.>>Melanie: RIGHT.
>>BUT I THINK IT WAS A DEBATING POINT.
>>Melanie: IT REALLY WAS. LOOKING AT THIS ONE HERE,
WHAT DOES JUSTIN TRUDEAU CONSIDER TO BE MIDDLE CLASS?
INTERESTING.>>INTERESTING.
AND IT SEEMED TO BE THAT THERE WERE A COUPLE OF
DIFFERENT DEFINITIONS MAYBE OUT THERE.
AND CANADIANS CLEARLY WANTED TO KNOW — HE REFERRED TO
MIDDLE CLASS A LOT. IT WAS ONE OF THOSE TRENDING
TERMS THAT PERCOLATED UP ESPECIALLY IN THAT FIRST
HALF HOUR, AND I THINK PEOPLE WANTED SOME
CLARIFICATION. TALKING ABOUT MIDDLE CLASS.
WHO IS THIS?>>Melanie: OK.
FINALLY DOES THOMAS MULCAIR WANT REQUEST EK TO SEPARATE?
>>WHEN WE STARTED GETTING INTO THE GOVERNANCE PART OF
THE DEBATE THERE’S A LOT OF QUESTIONS AROUND, YOU KNOW,
DOES MULCAIR — DOES THOMAS MULCAIR VIEW SEPARATION AS
VIABLE AND WHAT IS THE THRESHOLD THAT HAS TO BE MET
FOR QUEBEC TO SEPARATE? AND THAT WAS A POINT OF
TENSION DURING THE DEBATE.>>Melanie: ABSOLUTELY.
THE LAST QUESTION HERE — WHAT IS THE MAIN ROLE OF THE
SENATE? OF COURSE THAT WAS A STUCKEY
TOPIC AND A LOT OF ATTACK ON THERE.
SO I THINK THIS IS AN INTERESTING QUESTION BECAUSE
MAYBE PEOPLE DON’T KNOW WHAT THE SENATE EVEN DOES.
SHOULD IT BE DONE WITH?>>THAT’S RIGHT.
AND WHAT’S INTERESTING IS THAT CANADIAN GO TO GOOGLE
TO OFTEN TO SEEK CLARIFICATION.
THEY HAVE QUESTIONS AROUND THESE SORT OF THINGS.
AND THERE’S A GENUINE CURIOSITY HERE I THINK BEING
REFLECTED IN SOME OF THESE RESULTS.
>>Melanie: LET’S LOCK ACROSS THE COUNTRY AS WELL
BECAUSE YOU CAN SEE PEOPLE WHO WERE GOOGLING.
MOST PEOPLE WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT TRUDEAU.
>>ACTUALLY THIS REFLECTS A LOT OF THE DATA THAT WE SAW
THAT SHOWS JUST IN GENERAL, SEARCH INTERESTS ACROSS THE
COUNTRY, MOST OF THE SEARCH VOLUME WENT TO JUSTIN
TRUDEAU THIS EVENING, FOLLOWED BY STEPHEN HARPER.
AND THAT’S REFLECTED HERE IN THE GEOGRAPHY THAT YOU SEE
ACROSS THE BOARD. YOU MAY NOT SEE BUT LITTLE
P.E.I. THERE, THAT ACTUALLY WENT TO STEPHEN HARPER.
THAT’S RIGHT. BUT FOR THE MOST PART, THIS
WAS JUSTIN TRUDEAU’S NIGHT IN TERMS OF SEARCH INTERESTS
ONLINE. WHAT’S INTERESTING THERE’S
NO THOMAS MULCAIR THERE.>>Melanie: REALLY?
WHAT WE CAN’T TELL IS NEGATIVE OR POSITIVE SEARCH
ON THEM. THEY WERE JUST CURIOUS.
>>THAT’S RIGHT. PEOPLE GO TO GOOGLE FOR ALL
KIND OF INTENTIONS. OFTEN IT’S TO SEEK
CLARIFICATION. THE PEAK MOMENT WAS WHEN
THERE WAS A BIT OF A BACK-AND-FORTH BETWEEN
TRUDEAU AND MULCAIR, AND THAT WAS DEFINITELY LIKE THE
HIGH POINT AT AROUND 8:15 –8:50, STORY.
AS THEY WERE DEBATING ENERGY EAST.
>>Melanie: VERY INTERESTING.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH, AARON. WE’RE GOING OVER TO YOU,
GORD.>>Gord: THANK YOU, MEL.
PAUL WELLS IS HERE. YOU ARE THE MODERATOR OF THE
DEBATE. YOU PUT THIS THING TOGETHER.
IT WAS A LOT OF WORK, A LOT OF ORGANIZATION AND A LITTLE
BIT OF ARM TWIST TOG GET EVERYONE TO AGREE.
HOW DO YOU FEEL OVERALL ABOUT IT?
>>Paul: I THINK WE HAD A GOOD CONVERSATION.
THERE WERE SOME SPARKS, SOME CONFRONTATIONS ON QUESTIONS
LIKE THE CLARITY ACT, ON QUESTIONS LIKE THE MESS IN
THE SENATE AND THE ROLE THAT CANADA SHOULD TAKE IN CRISIS
SPOTS AROUND THE WORLD, BUT I WAS STRUCK BY HOW WILLING
THE LEADERS WERE STO LET ONE ANOTHER TALK, HOW EAGER THEY
WERE TO HAVE A CONVERSATION THAT HAD SOME SUBSTANCE TO
IT.>>Gord: I DIDN’T SEE THE
KIND OF ANGRY OUTBURST THAT I EXPECTED IN CERTAIN
PORTIONS OF THE DEBATE AND I’LL SUGGEST TO YOU THAT
OVER AWL I DON’T THINK THERE WAS A CLEAR WINNER, BUT I
THINK THAT HARPER AND TRUDEAU AND MULCAIR AND
MAY.BEST THEY COULD TO NOT LOSE.
AM I RIGHT THERE?>>I THINK ONE OF THE
INGREDIENTS OF A CLASSIC DEBATE IS DESPERATION AND
YOU USUALLY GET THAT IN FOUR OR FIVE DAYS BEFORE A VOTE.
SINCE THERE’S 11 WEEKS TO RECOVER FROM WHATEVER
HAPPENED, I THINK THE LEADERS HAD THE SENSE THAT
THE STAKES WEREN’T SKY HIGH, THAT THIS WAS MORE AN
INTRODUCTION THAN AN ATTEMPT TO CLOSE THE DEAL IN THE
HOMESTRETCH. I THOUGHT THE OTHER LEADERS
WERE SMART NOT TO DEDICATE THEIR NIGHT TO TEARING TOM
MULCAIR DOWN. USUALLY WHEN EVERYBODY TURNS
ON A LEADER THAT KIND OF CONZ CREATES THEM AS A FRONT
RUNNER. I THINK SOMEONE SMART SAID
TO THEM JUST LEAVE MULCAIR BE.
MAKE YOUR OWN CASE BECAUSE JIM PRENTICE’S FATAL MISTAKE
IN ALBERTA A FEW MONTHS AGO WAS TO SPEND THE NIGHT
TRYING TO TEAR RACHEL NOTLEY DOWN, AND ALL HE GOT DONE
WAS TO REMIND PEOPLE WHO RACHEL NOTLEY WAS.
>>Gord: STEPHEN HARPER, THEY GANGED UP ON HIM BUT
WASN’T THAT BLOODIED AT THE END OF IT.
I THOUGHT TOM MULCAIR LOCKED LIKE HE TRIED THE GRANDDAD
APPROACH, LAD BACK, VERY SOFT.
>>STEPHEN HARPER HAS DONE A LOT OF THESE DEBATES BEFORE.
ONE OF THEM WAS THAT HE DIDN’T AT ALL MIND WHEN I
INTERVENED TO ASK ANOTHER QUESTION BECAUSE HE WAS NOT
PARTICULARLY NERVOUS THAT I WOULD DRAG HIM ON TO
UNFAMILIAR TERRITORY. WHEN YOU’RE THE PRIME
MINISTER AND YOU HAVE BEEN FOR A DECADE, THERE JUST IS
NO UNFAMILIAR TERRITORY. AND SO I FOUND IT WAS EASIER
TO HAVE A GENUINE KIND OF GIVE AND TAKE WITH HARPER
THAN WITH SOME OF THE OTHERS WHO WERE VERY EAGER TO MACK
SURE THEY GOT THAR MESSAGE OUT EVEN IF IT MEANT
STOMPING ALL OVER THE MODERATOR.
>>Gord: THANKS FOR ALL YOUR WORK YOU PUT INTO MAKING
THIS DEBATE A SUCCESS.>>YOU GAVE ME SOME GOODED
TIPS AND I APPRECIATE IT.>>Gord: TRIED TO GIVE YOU
SOME GOOD ONES. THANK YOU, PAUL.
HERE’S CYNTHIA MULLIGAN WITH THE PANEL.
>>Cynthia: ALL RIGHT. RECENT POLLS SUBTLE
INDICATED ARE — SUGGEST CANADIANS ARE TIRED OF
STEPHEN HARPER AND WANT A CHANGE.
DO YOU THINK HE CHANGED ANYONE’S MINDS?
>>NO.>>NO.
>>WHAT HE DID IS REASON FORCED THE 30-ODD PERCENT
THAT WERE ALREADY CONSIDERING VOTING FOR HIM.
HE DIDN’T SCARE ANY OF THEM AWAY.
I DON’T THINK ANY OF THEM ARE GOING TO SWITCH
ALLEGIANCES TOMORROW MORNING BUT HE CERTAINLY DIDN’T BUY
ANY VOTERS TONIGHT. I DON’T THINK THERE’S A
CHANCE FOR HIM TO DO SO. WHAT HE NEED TODAY DO WAS TO
CONVINCE THOSE 30% THAT CHANGING THEIR VOTES WOULD
BE RISKY AND I THINK HE DID THAT.
>>HE NEEDED THE SWING VOTERS WHO WERE ALMOST ALL
LIBERAL TO TORY SWINGERS. HE’S NOT PICKING UP N.D.P.
VOTES. HE NEEDED THOSE PEOPLE TO
NOT WRITE HIM OFF. THAT SMALL SEGMENT OF VOTERS
WHO GAVE HIM MAJORITY. HE NEEDS THOSE PEOPLE TO NOT
WRITE HIM OFF. FOR THAT HE NEEDED NOT TO
SEEM MEAN AND ALOVE AND DETACHED AND I THINK HE
MANAGED THAT TONIGHT.>>UNG MOVING FORWARD HE’S
GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE CHANGES TO THE CAMPAIGN TO
TRY AND STEAL MORE OF THOSE LIBERAL VOTERS OVER TO THE
CONSERVATIVE SIDE. I DON’T THINK HE FULLY
ACHIEVED THAT GOAL TONIGHT. WE’LL SEE HOW HE DOES IN THE
REST OF THE DEBATES MOVING FORWARD.
>>Cynthia: WHAT ABOUT MULCAIR?
BECAUSE HE’S NOW UNDER SCRUTINY LIKE NEVER BEFORE.
PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY WONDERING IF HE COULD BE
PRIME MINISTER, THE FIRST N.D.P. PRIME MINISTER IN
THIS COUNTRY. HOW DO YOU THINK TONIGHT
FARED WITH THAT?>>HE DID WELL IN A COUPLE
FILES BUT WHAT HE REALLY NEEDED TO DO WAS TO CONVINCE
PEOPLE THAT HE HAD THE ECONOMIC VISION AND THE
ECONOMIC PLAN TO GET PEOPLE BACK TO WORK, AND HE JUST
DIDN’T DO IT I DON’T THINK. I DON’T THINK HE REALLY SLAM
DUNKED THAT ONE. I THINK ELIZABETH MAY
PROBABLY SOUNDED MORE COHERENT ON THE ECONOMY THAN
THOMAS MULCAIR. JUSTIN TRUDEAU’S ATTACKS ON
HIM BASICALLY SAYING YOUR MINIMUM WAGE RAISE IS ONLY
GOING TO HELP A HANDFUL OF PEOPLE, UNG THAT’S PRETTY
DEVASTATING.>>I THINK FOR MULCAIR A LOT
OF THE CHALLENGE IS GETTING THAT NARRATIVE OUT THAT HE’S
NOT A WONK LIFETIME POLITICIAN FROM QUEBEC, THAT
HE’S A GRANDFATHER NOW. ALLUDED TO HIS GRANDCHILDREN
AT ONE POINT, THAT’S GREW UP IN A BIG FAMILY.
ALL THOSE SOFT SENLED THINGS THEY’VE TRIED TO DO WITH HIM
REALLY LARGELY THIS YEAR. I’M NOT SURE HE GOT A LOT OF
THAT OUT THERE. I DIDN’T GET THE IMPREP
PRETION HE MANAGED TO STEER IT ON TO PERSONALITY
EXPERIENCES. TRUDEAU DID ALLUDE TO BE AGO
DAD AT ONE POINT. I THINK HE’D RATHER BE
DEFINED AS A FATHER OF YOUNG CHILDREN THAN THE SON OF A
FAMOUS POLITICIAN. SO THAT WOULD BE HIS GOAL IN
THAT.>>AND I THINK HE DID
VISUALLY APPEAR MINISTERIAL WHEN HE WAS GOING THROUGH
THE DID HE BAIT BUT HE DIDN’T GET HIS POINT ACROSS
AS JUSTIN SAID. I THINK CANADIAN VOTERS WHO
MAY BE A LITTLE BIT WARY OF N.D.P. ECONOMIC POLICIES AND
WHAT THEY PLAN TO DO, HE BASICALLY FACED ATTACKS FROM
BOTH PRIME MINISTER STEPHEN HARPER AND LIBERAL LEADER
JUSTIN TRUDEAU ON THOSE POINTS.
SO THERE WILL STILL HAVE TO BE SOME WARMING UP THAT
VOTERS MIGHT HAVE TO DO TO MULCAIR.
>>Cynthia: WE JUST HAVE A FEW SECONDS LEFT.
BUT MY SENSE IS, IN WATCHING THE ATTACK ADS IN PARTICULAR
AND HOW RELENTLESS THEY WERE, THAT HARPER’S TRYING TO
OBLITERATE TRUDEAU AND MAKE THIS A TWO-PARTY RACE.
DO YOU THINK HE’S MANAGED TO DO THAT?
OR IS IT STILL A THREE PARTY RACE?
>>I THINK IT’S A THREE PARTY RACE.
I DON’T THINK ANYONE WAS OBLITERATED TONIGHT.
I THINK WE’VE GOT THE POLLS SHOWED AND I THINK THE SENSE
OF THINGS. IF YOU LOOK AT THAT STAGE IT
WAS A MULTIPART KIND OF DEBATE.
THERE WAS NO SENSE WHERE YOU THOUGHT AH IT’S REALLY ABOUT
THESE TWO GUYS.>>Cynthia: AFRAID WE’VE GOT
TO GO. THAT’S A WRAP.
GORD, BACK TO YOU.>>Gord: IT IS A LONG ROAD
UNTIL ELECTION DAY OCTOBER 19th, BUT TONIGHT THIS
FEDERAL CAMPAIGN HAS TAKEN A GIANT STEP.
IN THE MINDS OF SOME VIEWERS PERHAPS A DECISIVE STEP.
WE AS A NATION HAVE BEEN ABLE TO WEIGH THE WORDS OF
ALL FOUR LEADERS AND PERHAPS IN THE COURSE OF OUR
COVERAGE AND ANALYSIS TONIGHT SOME MINDS MAY HAVE
BEEN CHANGED. AND NO MATTER WHO ULTIMATELY
WINS YOUR SUPPORT, WE DO HOPE YOU DO VOTE WHEN THE
TIME COMES.

99 thoughts on “REPLAY: Maclean’s National Leaders Debate

  1. my favorite party by far is the green party. I very sadly feel like I cannot vote for them because it would be a wasted vote. I think a lot of people feel this way. I bet if everyone who felt this way actually voted for them they may actually have a fighting chance to make a difference in this country.

  2. This entire debate revolves around the first subject: Economy. That segment of the debate was a tell-all; for the reason that it displayed just how corrupt Harper is. He made efforts to use simple misdirection tactics and outright avoided huge issues that were brought up as questions in rather simple conversation… Harper has quite obviously developed some good pals in high places and is really only looking out for them, at this point. He is an aristocratic capitalist, and his only goal is to stay in office. Not only for himself, but for his commitments he has made overseas. Harper cannot lose this election because it would cause further recession and turmoil within our country. With that being said; we Cannot allow for his cancerous regime to endure. We have to bite the bullet as a country, and we have to elect someone/anyone who has the capabilities to alleviate this country of its Massive debts and of course the aforementioned commitments. Canada is a respectable country on an international level, and this is not because of Harper. It is because of its people. The people need this beautiful country back. Do us all a favour: do not vote for Harper.

    My personal vote? Doesn't matter. Make your own decision, but ensure it is an educated, informed, and intelligent decision.

  3. Well Yes Stephen Harpers Plan is kind of failing for money but for education its pretty good. But what Justin wants rich people paying more, Just to say the rich people worked hard FOR the money but if wealthy people became poor there will be NO MORE RICH PEOPLE so then the middle class has to PAY more since wealthy people arent there! SO justin Has a weird logical thinking mind also, Justin doesnt really care about SEX ED which is bad… By the way he posted a NACKED WOMEN WITH HIM IN THAT PIC! SO STUPID! BTW dont judge me im just in grade 4

  4. My Perspective…

    Lots of good points but what happens afterwards? All of these parties are not fighting for Canada they are fighting for their own greed and misplaced ego. All of them are manipulating numbers, providing vague information and ignoring evidence of their own failures instead of working towards a way in which to fix them.

    The smear campaigns reveal an increasingly dangerous form of infighting that tarnishes our decreasing ability to settle scores amicably whilst not ultimately bringing our nation down a shit hole. Regardless of who wins we all lose something vital, it's plain and simple. The Government should be for the benefit of the country and it's people's future not for a temporary surplus of yes we can'ers and the establishment of potential super corporations which can fund the uprisings of seperatist groups.

    Hearing Mulcair's revealment of numbers, May's points, Trudeau's counter arguements and Harper's lies makes me realize that none of these businessmen should be given the seat of prime minister until they have their priorities straight.

    POSTPONE THE ELECTION UNTIL THEY KNOW WHAT THE HELL THEY ARE DOING!
    (Analysing numbers, the information of reality, working on practical concepts and putting them into effective action… I dont think giving funding to big tele-broadcasting based corporations, quadruple taxing the middle and triple taxing the rich will do anything good for us in the long run. It will just leave more people in debt with the next generation left behind to pick up the mess like always.)

    Consider bill c51 encourages more security over the right to self-defense and with the greater funding and access to communications companies and equipment. Just read about the bill itself and take a look at what ndp and liberals have been saying. Shit can go down buddy.
    Information regarding terrorism can be planted anywhere at anytime in order to make the population paranoid and encourage the rise of increasingly radical groups. Especially those that are on the rise across Europe and a certain seperatist group here in Canada.
    The safest bet in that regard would be a complete revision of, or the elimination of c51 itself. Unless nothing gets done in the end…we are all screwed anyways…

    Correct me if I am missing something, but what exactly has each party done that ultimately benefits it's respective province/sector of influence???

  5. if voting changed anything in their plans to enslave us,we would not have the right to vote ! Think about it !!!

  6. Justin said that his only class tonight is lowering taxes, but you didn't even know the questions. Therefore, you can't prepare for this speech and so did the others. So either the host is cheating or Justin is a mind reader.

  7. CANADA IS A FUCKING NAZI PLACE .
    I am going to change it –

    Even if I have to bum fuck every politicians asshole with my little finger myself .
    If I rip it to bad !
    YES ; IT MAY HURT ….

    I am going to make you all pay .
    The world will look at Canadians like there fucking retarded
    well they fucking are !

    Disability applications do not belong in the GOVERNMENTS trash can
    But everything Else YOU OWN DOES .
    that is where your going !

  8. Trudeau – Seems like his goal was more to bash Harper than to really talk about the issues.
    May – Was the most reasonable and well thought out speaker of the lot. She knows her facts and was clear.
    Mulcair – Seemed to be lacking articulation and also seemed focused on taking out Harper.
    Harper – Just sounded like he was manipulating facts and trying to articulate his points in a way that was narrow and focused on making himself look good instead of facing up to the reality of our country.

  9. what a ridiculous clown show, they all say the opposite and chime in with "let me give you the facts".. like the facts are what comes out of my mouth,,, I can't vote for any of them I don't want a government, 99% of my life i self-govern, i'm just a man

  10. hey maybe Canada should print it's own money and not pay interest on the money we let private banks print for us and lend to us with interest. Maybe that would help the deficit

  11. I love the debate they all have on the environment vs bitumen etc. We already know who actually runs the show on the topics anyways. They sound like a bunch of puppets to the grander schemes… unfortunately..

  12. Lol the 35:39

    Justin Trudeau: Mr. Harper! Nobody belieeeves you!

    Then.. at 36:69

    Steven Harper: The truth is greenhouse emissions have actually gone down
    Elizabeth May's scoff in the end <- this describes how I felt perfectly

  13. 4 Kids fighting over the first transaction at the candy store. If we had all 4, they would all be on the spot to fix this country's issues. Instead of voting for the lesser of 2 (or in this case 4) evils. It's time for a change never seen before.

  14. So nothing to say about the unnecessary high cost of housing due to foreign ownership and excessive internal hording. No matter how good the economy is it means nothing if rents and mortgage debt remain too high. Confiscate foreign owned real-estate and share the land.

  15. Wow, all seems to boil down to who appears to lie the least and give some semblance of trust for the position… Harper fails famously, and yes that fake smile is almost sinister… the rest at least pose some degree of honesty… or so it would appear…?

  16. Why can't Elizabeth May get with a real party, we need her as our Prime minister she is smart, clear, thoughtful, fair, she is the only person on that panel that has any idea what she is talking about, she is the only one that spoke truthfully and was believable
    Trudeau – spoke fluff
    Harper – Liar
    Mulcair – Fake and kinda creepy

  17. None of them are worth voting for. Liberals and NDP will kill the economy with big spending, and Harper is pro war and pro drug war.

  18. I hope we can at least maintain or slightly grow our nation. Whoever takes office will either lay a good foundation for the next party or run the country into the ground.

  19. It looks like the people of province of Ontario are ready to be ripped off by yet another Liberal government. The people of Ontario love handing their hard earned money to the crooked federal and provincial Liberal governments and no matter how poorly they run things Ontario will vote them back in. Does no one remember the previous Liberal federal government that funnelled huge amounts of money to Quebec for years amid scandal after scandal. Now the spoiled brat whos never worked a day in his life is going to get the reins of power if we don't vote against him.

  20. NDP Mulcair: User pay, carbon tax…. doesn't that only punish citizens who's homes are rural, like the farmers? People who use transit in cities still benefit from the effects of fossil fuels right? How does food get to your grocery stores? clothing? Therefore the cost of promoting green energy shoulod be the finacial responsibility and burden of everyone

  21. Having higher taxes, especially for the rich is one of the best things I've heard. With higher taxes the government could fund healthcare, education, programs,infrastructure and more… So technically we would be having a better quality life.

  22. oh shit. how long has harper been wearing that stupid Canadian flag pin on his lapel? W. Bush started this trend after 9-11 when he manipulated the American people into believing they are not patriotic if they don't agree with his fucked up policies. Ever since then, all politicians in the states wear a flag pin so they don't appear less patriotic. I didn't know Canada got sucked into this trend of manipulation as well.

  23. So as some people already mentioned, it is apparent that all the "facts" these leaders are presenting contradict each other. What is the truth? This debate is utterly useless to me if I don't know who's lying and who's not. Someone help me out here!

  24. I am not voting Conservative for a lot of reasons that involve our economy and our environment
    I am also not voting Liberal because Justin Trudeau is pretty much Stephen Harper's lap dog (a.k.a his bitch) by supporting Bill C-51
    So NDP for the win

  25. I'm voting for Trudeau just because he's legalizing weed and Harper wants to keep it banned so he can keep locking up minorities for using a harmless drug and still stands for freedom. It doesn't matter because youths will still get their hands on it. Look at Colorado, marijuana use under for people under 18 has actually declined. So yeah Harper thanks for pointlessly restricting our freedoms

  26. Please Please people choose whats right and vote Liberal! Just the other day i was talking to my friend and she told me her dad was gonna lose his job if NDP won and they would be unable to pay rent anymore and be in trouble! I just cant see how this is fair for a hard working Canadian Please everyone vote Liberal!

  27. ok honestly I like the NDP because u have to actually look different places other than debates I know that the NDP is a good party

  28. How is Elizabeth May so great! I can't vote for anyone else anymore. Calling out the Conservatives creative accounting at 16 minutes.

  29. The Canada – China trade deal is shit. Now Chinese corporations can sue the Canadian government for passing laws that prevent them from making a profit. Say goodbye to laws that protect the environment and workers rights. E. MAY at 26 minutes tells it like it is.

  30. I barely got to hear Elizabeth May speak.. Can everyone please stop talking over each other. Harper and Trudeau are always talking at the same time, I can't hear anything.

  31. The host should not add his own personal opinions to the conversation… for example, saying that the Fair Elections Acts is "full of surprises" is simply not appropriate.

  32. None of these fucking idiots except maybe may and even then the chances of her getting elected is small. Strategic voting it is. ABC babeh let's do it.

  33. So I'm back to watch another 15-20 minutes of this. I hope it stops being the Trudeau vs Harper show. As much as I admire Mr. Trudeau, I'm tired of the debate being essentially Harper vs. Trudeau

  34. On average, every six days a woman in Canada is killed by her intimate partner (Canadian Women’s Foundation). Do you want to do something to change their life?

  35. I don't care what anyone thinks, but compared to ANY of the republican candidates down south, our politicians are frigging political geniuses. As much I didn't like Harper, he's Sir John A MacDonald, compared to any of those clowns especially that vulture lady and Mr. T, and another Bush. Are you serious?! lol
    (the fact that Trump is running makes me so much prouder to be Canadian.)

  36. MESSAGE TO Y TEAM MS
    RAISE Y SIDE BY INFO ISENT TO AMERIC ARUSSIA STAND UP FOR MY INFO
    GOD PALN FOR ME TO BRING ECON IN WORLD BALNCE
    Y SIDE CAN RAISE Y LAND &MAKE MANY FACTORY IN MY MOVE &MISSION
    IWILL BRING BACK Y OIL BE SALE FROM EDMONTO TO WHERE IHAVE PALN
    THS 2 IWILL GIVE Y FEEDB INEVER RECIVE FEEDB FROM CADA BESD TRUBLE
    BU BECU OF Y GOD IRECI IN Y COUNTRY IWILL DO AS MY WARD
    Y POWWER WILL TURN UP AGIN
    BY FEW TRILLION AMNOTH Y WILL GET Y SIDE TO RAISE Y COUNTRY BECU IHAVE RESPCT FOR Y VALFER Y GIVE MONEY TO MANY PEOPLE THE DONT HAVE

  37. 2:51:00 This map showed a preview of the inevitable election results that year. It's all about the anti-Harper vote, so Canadians were willing to screw the NDP in favour of the Liberals.

  38. Water prices will rise. Learn to conserve water. Nation wise a country must lower it's water consumption.

  39. Looking back on this from 2018, I'm so happy and proud that we can have this level of seriousness in debates in this country. It's leaps and bounds ahead of what we saw in the US during the 2016 election, especially the Republican primary debates.

  40. As I look back…. I had more spending cash in my pockets when Harper was pm. Trudeau taxes the middle class and gave billions to foreign counties.

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