POTUS 2016: Super Tuesday and Fascism

POTUS 2016: Super Tuesday and Fascism


♪♪>>>WELCOME TO
“POTUS 2016.” WE TRACK THE
PRESIDENTIAL HORSE RACE AND POUR
COLD, HARD FACTS ON THE OVERHEATED
CAMPAIGN RHETORIC. I’M BRIAN LEHRER. INDEED IT WAS A
SUPER TUESDAY FOR DONALD TRUMP AND
HILLARY CLINTON. EACH WON SEVEN
STATES. TRUMP PROVED HE
HAS BROAD SUPPORT FROM THE LIBERAL
NORTHEAST TO THE DEEP SOUTH. CLINTON PROVED SHE
COULD BUILD A NATIONAL
COALITION. SHE WON OVER
BERNIE SANDERS NEAR 2-1 FROM
VIRGINIA TO TEXAS AND EVEN EDGED HIM
OUT IN LIBERAL MASSACHUSETTS. BERNIE WON FOUR
STATES, INCLUDING COLORADO AND VOWED
TO PRESS ON. TED CRUZ WON HIS
HOME STATE OF TEXAS, NEIGHBORING
OKLAHOMA AND ALASKA. MARCO RUBIO ONLY
WON MINNESOTA, DIMINISHING HIS
CHANCES OF BECOMING THE TRUMP
ALTERNATIVE. TRUMP STILL HAS A
THOUSAND DELEGATES TO GO BEFORE HE
WOULD CLINCH THE NOMINATION, HE
DECIDED FOR LAST NIGHT, AT LEAST,
TO START LOOKING MORE PRESIDENTIAL. INSTEAD OF THE
USUAL RAUCOUS CELEBRATION, HE
HELD A NEWS CONFERENCE BEFORE
A STAND OF AMERICAN FLAGS AT
HIS OWN PRIVATE CLUB, MARA LARGO IN PALM BEACH,
FLORIDA. ASKED HOW HE WOULD
DEAL WITH A FRACTURED GOP, HE
SAID — >>WE HAVE
EXPANDED THE REPUBLICAN PARTY. WHEN YOU LOOK AT
WHAT’S HAPPENED IN SOUTH CAROLINA AND
YOU SEE THE KIND OF NUMBERS THAT WE
GOT IN TERMS OF EXTRA PEOPLE
COMING IN, THEY CAME FROM THE
DEMOCRATIC PARTY, THE DEMOCRAT
PARTY, THEY’RE DEMOCRATS AND
THEY’RE LONG-TIME DEMOCRATS AND THEY
WERE NEVER GOING TO SWITCH. AND THEY
ALL SWITCHED. AND THEY WERE
INDEPENDENTS. WE’VE ACTUALLY
EXPANDED THE PARTY. LOOK AT THE NUMBER
OF VOTES THAT WE HAD IN THAT AREA
AS AN EXAMPLE. FOUR YEARS AGO,
THEY HAD 390,000 OR SO VOTES. WE DOUBLED. WE’RE
ALMOST 800,000. WHEREAS THE
DEMOCRATS WENT DOWN. THERE’S MUCH LESS
ENTHUSIASM FOR THE DEMOCRATS. SO, LOOK, I’M A
UNIFIER. I KNOW PEOPLE ARE
GOING TO FIND THAT HARD TO BELIEVE
BUT I AM A UNIFIER. ONCE WE GET ALL OF
THIS FINISHED I’M GOING TO GO AFTER
ONE PERSON, HILLARY CLINTON,
ON THE ASSUMPTION SHE’S ALLOWED TO
RUN, WHICH IS A BIG ASSUMPTION. I DON’T KNOW THAT SHE’S
GOING TO BE ALLOWED TO RUN.>>IN CONTRAST, CLINTON CHOSE NOT
TO SUGGEST THAT TRUMP WAS A
CRIMINAL. AT HER MIAMI
VICTORY RALLY, SHE DID MOCK TRUMP’S
SIGNATURE SLOGAN SAYING AMERICA HAS
NEVER STOPPED BEING GREAT, SHE
SAID. AND INSTEAD THAT
AMERICA NEEDS TO BE MADE WHOLE
AGAIN. >>INSTEAD OF
BUILDING WALLS, WE’RE GOING TO
BREAK DOWN BARRIERS AND
BUILD — [ CHEERS ]
— BUILD LADDERS OF OPPORTUNITY AND
EMPOWERMENT. SO EVERY AMERICAN
CAN LIVE UP TO HIS OR HER POTENTIAL. BECAUSE THEN AND
ONLY THEN CAN AMERICA LIVE UP TO
ITS FULL POTENTIAL.>>LATER, TRUMP SAID
HE DIDN’T KNOW WHAT THAT MAKE AMERICA WHOLE
THING MEANT. HE ALSO MOCKED
MARCO RUBIO, CALLING HIM THE
LITTLE SENATOR. TRUMP WAS ASKED
REPEATEDLY ABOUT HIS DELAYED AND
LESS THAN FORCEFUL DISAVOW OF SUPPORT
FROM FORMER KKK LEADER DAVID DUKE. BOTH SENATE
MAJORITY LEADER AND MITCH
McCONNELL AND HOUSE SPEAKER PAUL
RYAN HAD EARLIER UPRATED TRUMP
ABOUT THIS. SAYING THE PARTY
OF LINCOLN, QUOTE, DOES NOT PREY ON
PEOPLE’S PREJUDICES. TRUMP’S RESPONSE?>>LOOK, I DON’T
WANT TO WASTE A LOT OF TIME. I DISAVOWED — I’M
GOING TO GET ALONG GREAT WITH
CONGRESS, OKAY? PAUL RYAN, I DON’T
KNOW HIM WELL. I’M SURE I’M GOING
TO GET ALONG GREAT WITH HIM. IF I DON’T, HE’S
GOING TO HAVE TO PAY A BIG PRICE. OKAY? OKAY.>>TOUGH TALK. RYAN, BY THE WAY,
HAS ALREADY SAID HE WILL VOTE FOR
TRUMP OVER HILLARY, IF TRUMP
IS THE CANDIDATE, DESPITE HIS
DIFFERENCES ON THE CLAN. SO HOW CLEAR IS IT
THAT IN NOVEMBER IT WILL BE DONALD
VERSUS HILLARY? COME-FROM-BEHIND
WINS ARE ALWAYS POSSIBLE. [ SOUND OF HORSES
RUNNING ]>>YES, TIME FOR THE
HORSE RACE. DEMOCRATS
COALESCING AROUND A CANDIDATE. DONALD TRUMP’S
SEVEN-STATE WIN WAS IMPRESSIVE
NONE WERE BY MANTLES. RATHER
PLURALITIES. HIS AVERAGE TAKE
REMAINED AT ABOUT ONE-THIRD OF
REPUBLICANS TURNING OUT TO
VOTE. HE LOST IN FOUR
STATES AS TED CRUZ TOOK HOME
VICTORIES IN OKLAHOMA, TEXAS
AND ALASKA. RUBIO WON
MINNESOTA. TO TRUMP’S
OPPONENTS, THE FRACTURED FIELD
ITSELF BEGAN TO LOOK LIKE A
POSSIBLE ANTIDOTE. WHILE RUBIO BECAME
WEAKER LAST NIGHT, TED CRUZ BECAME
STRONGER. FINALLY DELIVERING
THE EVANGELICAL BASE HE HAS BEEN
PROMISING. CRUZ NOW AT 226
DELEGATES, HAS MORE THAN TWICE
MARCO RUBIO’S. THEY PUT HIM
WITHIN STRIKING DISTANCE OF DONALD
TRUMP. BUT CAN CRUZ WIDEN
HIS APPEAL AMONG MODERATE VOTERS IN
UPCOMING STATES? IS RUBIO TRULY
THAT WEEK? ONE AREA WHERE HE
DOES TEND TO SHINE IS AMONG VOTERS IN
INNER RING SUBURBS. IN VIRGINIA, HE
HAD A CHANCE TO OVERTAKE TRUMP AND
NCH OUT A WIN. JOHN KASICH
APPEARS TO HAVE STOLEN HIS
THUNDER. ALSO PLAYING A
PART IN RUBIO’S FRUSTRATION, HE
FAILED TO MEET MINIMUM VOTE
THRESHOLDS, SO IS DENIED ANY
DELEGATES IN ALABAMA AND TEXAS,
DESPITE HIS COMPETITIVE
NUMBERS IN EACH STATE. FOR DEMOCRATS,
SUPER TUESDAY CONTINUED TO CLEAR
THE PATH FOR HILLARY CLINTON. UNFORTUNATELY FOR
BERNIE SANDERS, HIS DEFICIT WILL
CONTINUE DESPITE MAKING INROADS
WITH AFRICAN-AMERICANS. HILLARY CLINTON
CONTINUED TO PUMMEL SANDERS IN
THAT DEMOGRAPHIC. AFFLUENT WHITES
AND OLDER VOTERS. FURTHER
OBSTRUCTING BERNIE’S PATH,
WALL CONTINUES TO GET HIGHER. HILLARY CLINTON
HAS RECEIVED 478 ENDORSEMENTS FROM
ELECTED OFFICIALS FROM HER PARTY
WHILE BERNIE SANDERS HAS
ACCUMULATED JUST FIVE. ALL RIGHT. TIME TO DISCUSS
THE BIG PICTURE. IN LIGHT OF SUPER
TUESDAY, JOINING US, THE SENIOR
MOST FELLOW, BOB HERBERT AND
NATIONAL REVIEW INSTITUTE BUCKLEY
FELLOW, IAN TUTTLE. THANK YOU BOTH FOR
COMING. BEFORE WE GIVE THE
NOMINATIONS TO CLINTON AND TRUMP,
HERE ARE THE ACTUAL NUMBERS. YOU NEED 1,237
TELL GATES TO CLINCH THE
NOMINATION. TRUMP HAS 285. CRUZ, 161, RUBIO,
87. KASICH, 25. CARSON, 8. IN OTHER
WORDS FOR ALL THE HYPOTHETICAL BEING
ABOUT HOW SUPER YESTERDAY WAS FOR
THE FRONT-RUNNER, TRUMP IS STILL
1,000 DELEGATES AWAY FROM
CLINCHING THE NOMINATION. ARE WE, IN THE
MEDIA, OVERHYPING HOW BIG HIS LEAD
IS?>>PROBABLY TO A
CERTAIN EXTENT. IT’S NOT A DONE
DEAL BY ANY STRETCH OF THE
IMAGINATION. ONLY A SMALL
NUMBER OF STATES HAVE VOTED. THE OUTCOME
YESTERDAY DOES SUGGEST THAT THE
TWO PATHS ARE PROBABLY — THE
TWO PROSPECTIVE PATHS FOR THE
ANTI-TRUMP FORCES ARE PROBABLY —
HAVE PROBABLY CONVERGED INTO ONE
PATH. IT LOOKED, PRIOR
TO SUPER TUESDAY, LIKE PERHAPS WE
COULD GAIN SOME SORT OF OUTCOME IN
WHICH IT WOULD CLARIFY ONE SINGLE
ANTI-TRUMP OPPONENT. EVERYBODY BESIDES
KASICH AND CARSON, MADE REASONABLY
GOOD CAN AS THAT THEY SHOULD REMAIN
IN THE RACE. THAT’S CRUZ AND
RUBIO. SO NOW IT LOOKS
LIKE WE HAVE SORT OF A DE FACTO
FAVORITE SON PACT GOING FORWARD.>>RUBIO WIN HIS
HOME STATE FLORIDA, KASICH WINS HIS HOME STATE OHIO. CRUZ ALREADY DID
IT IN HIS HOME STATE, TEXAS. BOB, DO YOU AGREE
INSTEAD OF COALESCING BEHIND
ONE ANTI-TRUMP CANDIDATE THE PATH
IS FOR THEM TO ALL STAY IN, GATHER A
FEW DELEGATES HERE AND THERE AND HOPE
THEY ARRIVE AT THE CONVENTION WITHOUT
TRUMP HAVING GOTTEN AN ACTUAL
MAJORITY?>>I DO AGREE. THE PLAN IS TO
STOP TRUMP, NOT NECESSARILY TO
DEFEAT TRUMP BEFORE THEY GET TO
THE CONVENTIONS, BUT I THINK THE
REPUBLICANS HAVE AN ENORMOUS
PROBLEM EITHER WAY NOW, BECAUSE OF
THAT. EITHER TRUMP GETS
THE NOMINATION, THE MOST LIKELY
OCCURRENCE. THE ALTERNATIVE IS
IF THE SO-CALLED GOP ESTABLISHMENT
GETS TOGETHER, HOWEVER THEY DO
IT, TO STOP THIS TRUMP TRAIN ON THE
WAY TO THE NOMINATION. IF THAT HAPPENS,
THE CIVIL WAR THAT’S ALREADY
BOILING IN THE PARTY REALLY GETS
OUT OF CONTROL. I CAN’T IMAGINE
WHAT WOULD HAPPEN THEN. ALL OF IT WOULD BE
BAD FOR THE GOP. >>LET’S IMAGINE
WHAT THAT MIGHT BE, EVEN IN THE
SHORT TERM. WHAT THIS AMOUNTS
TO AND REQUIRES IS THE KIND OF TOTAL
REPUDIATION THAT IS VIRTUALLY
NONEXISTENT IN AMERICAN POLITICS. DO YOU EVEN KNOW
WHAT THAT WOULD LOOK LIKE?>>I DON’T. I THINK THE PARTY
WOULD FRACTURE BEFORE OUR VERY
EYES. THERE WOULD BE A
CHANCE THAT THEY WOULD — I IMAGINE
THAT THEY WOULD TRY TO RUN A THIRD
PARTY CANDIDATE. ALSO THE PART
WOULD HAVE TO REDEFINE ITSELF
GOING FORWARD T WOULDN’T BE THE
KIND OF SPLIT THAT YOU COULD EASILY
HEAL. THE FOLKS
SUPPORTING TRUMP — AND THERE
ARE MANY OF THEM — WOULD BE
SO ENRAGED THAT I DON’T THINK THERE
WOULD BE A WAY TO ACCOMMODATE THEM
GOING FORWARD. >>IAN, THERE IS
ALREADY THIS TOTAL REPUDIATION OF
TRUMP IN PRINT IN YOUR MAGAZINE,
“NATIONAL REVIEW.” SO, WHAT DO YOUR
COLLEAGUES OVER THERE THINK THE
PATH IS, GOING FORWARD TO STOP
HIM?>>IT’S VERY
DIFFICULT AND NO ONE IS
UNDERESTIMATING THE ENORMITY OF
THE TASK. THIS IS
EXISTENTIAL FOR NOT JUST THE
REPUBLICAN PARTY AS CURRENTLY
CONSTITUTED AND A VESSEL FOR A
CERTAIN VIEW BUT FOR THE PRINCIPLES
AND IDEALS THAT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, WE
BELIEVE, HAS STOOD FOR. SO THAT MEANS THAT
EVERYONE AGAINST TRUMP WHO HAS A
DIME TO SPARE SHOULD BE, YOU
KNOW, PUTTING UP ATTACK ADS IN
FLORIDA AND OHIO. WE NEED, YOU KNOW,
THE MEDIA RALLYING BEHIND RUBIO,
KASICH AND CRUZ, TO THE EXTENT THAT
THEY MIGHT CHANGE LATE-COMING
VOTER’S MINDS. >>LET ME STOP YOU
FOR A SECOND. YOU SAID WHAT’S AT
STAKE IS ALL THE VALUES THAT THE
REPUBLICAN PARTY HAS STOOD FOR. I HAVE A FEELING
THE TWO OF YOU BOTH REALLY WANT
TO STOP TRUMP. BUT TO REINFORCE
VERY DIFFERENT VALUES IN THIS
COUNTRY. CAN YOU TALK ABOUT
THAT, AND JUST MAYBE THE TWO OF
YOU CAN COMPARE NOTES. WHY DO YOU THINK TRUMP IS
DANGEROUS?>>HE IS DANGEROUS
BECAUSE HE’S SUCH A DIVISIVE FIGURE
THAT HE PLAYS TO THE FEARS AND
WORST INSTINCTS OF A LOT OF
AMERICANS. THAT HE ENCOURAGES
RACISTS AND WANTS TO HAVE A
RELIGIOUS TEST FOR APPROXIMATE PEOPLE
COMING INTO THE COUNTRY. THE BIGGEST THING
IS HE DOESN’T UNDERSTAND THE
MAJOR ISSUES FACING THE
COUNTRY. EARLY DEBATES HERE
IS A GUY WHO DID NOT UNDERSTAND
WHAT THE NUCLEAR TRIAD WAS. HE’S SUPPOSED TO
BE THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF. HE WOULD BE A
CATASTROPHE. THE REPUBLICAN
PARTY IS REAPING WHAT IT HAS SOWN
FOR MANY DECADES NOW. REPUBLICAN PARTY,
SOMETIMES WITH A WINK AND A NOD AND
SOMETIMES NOT, HAS ENCOURAGED PEOPLE
WHO HAVE BEEN — SOME WHO HAVE BEEN
OUT AND OUT RACISTS, OTHERS
WHO HAVE BEEN HOSTILE TO THE
INTERESTS OF MINORITIES IN THIS
COUNTRY AND OTHERS WHO HAVE BEEN JUST
SORT OF MEAN SPIRITED ON A LOT
OF ISSUES, THINKING THAT THEY
CAN CONTROL THOSE VOTERS. NOW THOSE VOTERS
HAVE SORT OF SLIPPED OUT OF
CONTROL. >>WHY DO YOU
THINK TRUMP IS DANGEROUS? WHY DO THE EDITORS
OF NATIONAL REVIEW THINK SO?>>FOR A NUMBER OF
REASONS THAT BOB CITES. AND I WOULDN’T —
I DON’T WANT TO GET INTO TOO MUCH
DIAGNOSIS, BECAUSE I THINK THAT AT
THE END OF THE DAY, THERE’S A LOT
OF THINGS THAT ARE VERY DIFFICULT
WHEN YOU GET DOWN TO IT AND WHY
TRUMP HAS RISEN TO THE LEVEL HE HAS. THIS IS A MAN WHO
CAME OUT JUST THE OTHER DAY AND SAID
HE WANTS TO OPEN UP LIBEL LAWS SO
THAT YOU CAN SUE JOURNALISTS WHO
WRITE, QUOTE, HIT PIECES ABOUT HIM. THERE’S JUST A
NASTY, NASTY, AUTHORITARIAN
STREAK IN HIM THAT IS ABSOLUTELY
EMPAT HECHLT TICAL TO THE TYPES OF
LOCAL AND LIMITED GOVERNMENT THAT
CONSERVATIVES HAVE BEEN PUSHING FOR
IN DECADES. THAT WE, AT
“NATIONAL REVIEW” HAVE TRIED TO
POPULARIZE. >>DO YOU THINK
THERE’S OVERLAP BETWEEN WHY
PROGRESSIVES FEAR TRUMP BECOMING
PRESIDENT AND WHY CONSERVATIVES DO?>>NO, I DO. I THINK
ON FUNDAMENTAL ISSUES AND VALUES IN THE
UNITED STATES, THERE IS
CONVERGENCE ON LIBERALS, MODERATES AND
CONSERVATIVES. YOU DON’T WANT TO
TEAR APARTMENT OUR BEST VALUES. WE’RE SUPPOSED TO
ZPRAE ON POLICIES AND YOU CAN
DISAGREE VIGOROUSLY ON
THAT. I AGREE WITH IAN
THAT TRUMP GOES TO THE HEART OF SOME
OF THE FUNDAMENTAL VALUES OF THIS
COUNTRY AND BOTH SIDES CAN AGREE
THAT THAT’S NOT A GOOD THING.>>BOB, WHEN TRUMP
SAYS CLINTON’S PHRASE “MAKE AMERICA WHOLE
AGAIN,” IN RESPONSE TO HIS
“MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN,” THAT
SHE DOESN’T EVEN KNOW WHAT THAT
MEANS. >>HE DOESN’T KNOW
WHAT THAT MEANS. >>HE CLAIMS THAT
SHE DOESN’T EVEN KNOW WHAT THAT
MEANS. DO YOU KNOW WHAT
THAT MEANS?>>YES, I KNOW
EXACTLY WHAT THAT MEANS. WE’VE COME
THROUGH, FOR EXAMPLE — I MEAN,
THERE ARE A LOT OF PROBLEMS WITH THIS
COUNTRY IN TERMS OF PEOPLE GETTING
ALONG, GETTING TOGETHER AND THAT
SORT OF THING. BUT WE’VE COME
THROUGH ALMOST EIGHT YEARS OF A
BARACK OBAMA PRESIDENCY, WHICH
IN THE BEGINNING PEOPLE WERE SAYING
MAYBE WE WERE EVEN IN A POSTRACIAL
PERIOD IN THIS COUNTRY. THAT TURNED OUT,
OBVIOUSLY, NOT TO BE TRUE. BUT THERE IS A
LEVEL OF HOSTILITY TOWARDS
AFRICAN-AMERICANS, OTHER MINORITIES,
MUSLIMS IN THIS COUNTRY. AND WHAT YOU WANT
TO DO IS SORT OF BRING PEOPLE
TOGETHER. THAT’S WHAT
HILLARY IS TALKING ABOUT, WHEN SHE’S
TALKING ABOUT MAKING AMERICA
WHOLE AGAIN. TRUMP’S WHOLE
CAMPAIGN IS BASED ON THE IDEA OF
PITTING GROUPS AGAINST ONE
ANOTHER. SO, THIS IS ONE OF
THE BIG, ENORMOUS PROBLEMS WE’RE
FACING. >>IN TERMS OF THE
TRUMP MOVEMENT, WE PLAYED THE CLIP OF
HIM SAYING THAT REPUBLICAN TURNOUT
IS AT A RECORD. HE SAID THAT IN
THE POST SUPER TUESDAY NEWS
CONFERENCE. REPUBLICAN TURNOUT
IN THESE PRIMARIES ARE AT A RECORD
AND HE’S COMING IN FIRST. DEMOCRATIC TURNOUT
IS DOWN. I’LL GET TO YOU ON
THE DEMOCRATIC TURNOUT IN A
MINUTE. WHAT DOES IT SAY
THAT REPUBLICAN TURNOUT IN THE
PRIMARIES IS AT A RECORD HIGH?>>TO A CERTAIN
EXTENT, HE IS SELECTIVELY
INTERPRETING. LOOK AT IOWA. THERE IS VERY HIGH
TURNOUT. WHAT APPEARS
ACTUALLY HAPPEN SD A WHOLE LOT OF
REPUBLICAN VOTERS CAME OUT TO VOTE
AGAINST TRUMP. AND IF YOU LOOK AT
THE POLLING YESTERDAY, THE
REAL CLEAR POLITICS AVERAGE
IS PRIOR TO ACTUAL VOTING, TRUMP
UNDERPERFORMED. SOMETIMES BY
DOUBLE DIGITS, IN ALMOST EVERY
STATE. HE OVERPERFORMED
IN TWO STATES. I CAN’T REMEMBER WHICH TWO BUT
BY LESS THAN 1%. MARCO RUBIO
OVERPERFORMED, DESPITE THE FACT
THAT HE WON ONE STATE. TO THE EXTENT THAT
THERE IS RECORD TURNOUT, IT’S NOT
NECESSARILY TURNING OUT THE
WAY THAT TRUMP IS SAYING.
>>AND ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE,
THERE IS LOWER DEMOCRATIC
TURNOUT. >>YES.
>>TAN IN 2008. >>YES.
>>CLINTON BEAT SANDERS IN SOUTH
CAROLINA BY A GREATER PERCENTAGE
MARGIN THAN OBAMA BEAT CLINTON IN
2008. >>YEAH.
>>EVEN AMONG AFRICAN-AMERICAN
VOTERS, WITH THE HISTORY MAKING
FIRST BLACK PRESIDENT.
>>RIGHT. >>BUT THERE WERE
200,000 FEWER VOTERS.>>A COUPLE OF THOUGHTS THERE. IN 2008
ESPECIALLY, THAT WAS A MUCH MORE
ROBUST COMPETITION FOR THE
NOMINATION. PLUS YOU HAD THE
HISTORIC ASPECT OF THE OBAMA
PRESIDENCY. SO THE ATTENTION
WAS ON THE DEMOCRATS, MUCH IN
THE SAME WAY THAT THE ATTENTION IS
ON THE REPUBLICANS NOW. BUT I ALSO DO
THINK THAT THERE’S A PROBLEM IN TERMS
OF ENTHUSIASM THAT THE DEMOCRATS HAVE
TO WORRY ABOUT. HILLARY CLINTON IS
NOT A GREAT CANDIDATE. I THINK THAT IF
TRUMP IS THE NOMINEE, THERE
WILL BE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO WILL
VOTE IN OPPOSITION TO HIS CANDIDACY,
BUT THE DEMOCRATS REALLY DO HAVE TO
WORRY ABOUT SORT OF BOLSTERING THE
ENTHUSIASM FOR THEIR CANDIDATE.>>IAN TUTTLE, BOB HERBERT,
THANK YOU BOTH VERY MUCH.>>THANK YOU. ♪♪>>TIME FOR EVIDENCE-BASED
POLITICS. WE MEET A SCHOLAR WHO HAS STUDIED AN ISSUE OVER
SIMPLIFIED BY CAMPAIGN RHETORIC. THE DONALD TRUMP
CAMPAIGN HAS SHOCKED MANY, LEFT
AND RIGHT, FOR GROWING STRONG,
DESPITE OR BECAUSE OF HIS
INFLAMMATORY RHETORIC. TRUMP SAID HE
WOULD EMBRACE WATERBOARDING,
BOMB COUNTRIES AND TAKE THEIR OIL,
ORDER MASS DEPORTATIONS,
INDEFINITELY BAN MUSLIMS FROM
IMMIGRATING AND CENSOR THE MEDIA
FOR CRITICIZING PUBLIC FIGURES. SOME HAVE
DESCRIBED TRUMP USING THE “F”
WORD, FASCIST. IS THERE ANYTHING
FASCISTIC ABOUT DONALD TRUMP OR
THE WAY HE HAS BEEN CAMPAIGNING? IT’S BEEN FLOATING
AROUND EVEN BEFORE HE RETWEETED THE
MOUSSOLINI QUOTE. SIDE BY SIDE
PHOTOS MANY MONTHS AGO. THAT’S BENITO ON
THE RIGHT. ONE OF THE
HALLMARKS USUALLY INCLUDED IS THE
MYTHIC IDEA OF A DESPERATE NATION
ALLEGEDLY THREATENED BY
OUTSIDERS UNTIL A GREAT LEADER COMES
ALONG. AND WE DO HEAR
SOME OF THAT. >>OUR ENEMIES ARE
GETTING STRONGER AND STRONGER BY
THE DAY. AND WE, AS A COUNTRY, ARE
GETTING WEAKER. OUR COUNTRY NEEDS
A TRULY GREAT LEADER. AND WE NEED A
TRULY GREAT LEADER NOW.>>HERE TO EXPLAIN
WHAT FASCISM IS AND ISN’T AND WHETHER TO PLACE
DONALD TRUMP ANYWHERE NEAR THE
WORD IS ONE OF THE BEST-KNOWN
SCHOLARS ON THE TOPIC, ROBERT
PAXTON, PROFESSOR EMERITUS OF SOCIAL
SCIENCES AT COLUMBIA
UNIVERSITY AND THE AUTHOR OF “THE
ANATOMY OF FASCISM” PUBLISHED
IN 2004. WELCOME.>>THANK YOU. PEOPLE TRY TO
DESCRIBE FASCISM AS IF YOU’RE
COMPARING IT TO LIBERALISM. FASCISM WAS
SOMETHING MUCH MORE VISCERAL THAN
THAT. IT WAS A MOVEMENT
BASED STRONGLY ON EMOTIONS DESIGNED
TO RESTORE A NATION THAT WAS
TERRIFIED OF BEING WEAK. IT HAD BEEN
DEFEATED IN WAR OR PERHAPS THREATENED
BY REVOLUTION, IN THE CASE OF
GERMANY IT WAS BOTH. FASCISM PROMISED
TO UNIFY PEOPLE AND SUBORDINATE. IT WAS AGAINST
INDIVIDUALISM. AND YOU WOULD
MOBILIZE THE PASSIONS AND
ENERGIES OF A NATION AROUND THE
CONFLICT BETWEEN THE ENEMIES. NOT JUST EXTERNAL
ENEMIES BUT INTERNAL ENEMIES
ALSO. THERE ARE ENEMIES
INSIDE THE FORTRESS.>>SO FAR AIT’S
SOUNDING A BIT LIKE TRUMP.>>THERE ARE SOME
SIMILARITIES. THERE ARE ALSO
SOME DIFFERENCES. >>TELL US ABOUT
THE SIMILARITIES. >>WELL THE NOTION
THAT THE COUNTRY IS WEAK AND IT’S
GROWING WEAKER AND NEEDS A STRONG
LEADER. THAT’S CLASSICAL.>>THE SLOGAN, MAKE
AMERICA GREAT AGAIN?>>HITLER SAID
MAKE GERMANY GREAT AGAIN AND
MOUSSOLINI SAID MAKE ITALY GREAT
AGAIN AS AN EXACT PARAPHRASE. FOCUS ON INTERNAL
ENEMIES, TREASON FROM WITHIN. THE NOTION THAT
YOU DON’T HAVE TO BE TOO PARTICULAR
ABOUT LEGAL — OBSERVING
LEGALITY, DUE PROCESS BECAUSE OF
THE HIGH COST OF RESTORING THE
NATION. >>HOW ABOUT THE
WAY TRUMP PRESENTS? A LOT OF PEOPLE
SAY THAT HE SEEMS LIKE AN
AUTHORITARIAN. HE WANTS TO NOT
JUST DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE ENEMIES,
MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN — THERE’S
NOTHING WRONG WITH MAKING YOUR
COUNTRY OR KEEPING YOUR COUNTRY
GREAT. HOW ABOUT THE WAY
HE PRESENTS HIMSELF?>>AN IMPORTANT
ELEMENT OF FASCISM WAS THE PROJECTION
OF AN IMAGE. TRADITIONAL
POLITICAL PARTIES PEOPLE LEARN IN
SPEECHES AND SO FORTH. FASCISM YOU CREATE
AN IMAGE. HITLER WOULD
ARRIVE BY PLANE. TRUMP DOES THE
SAME THING. HE THRUSTS OUT HIS
JAW AS A MAN OF ACTION AND WILLING
TO DO VERY TOUGH THINGS.>>LET’S GET TO SOME
OF THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCES YOU
SEE BETWEEN TRUMP AND A CLASSIC
FASCIST. >>A CLASSIC
FASCIST GREW OUT OF A PARTICULAR
TIME, THE FIRST WORLD WAR AND THE
BOLSHOVIC REVOLUTION. GERMANY WAS
DEFEATED AND HORRIBLY
HUMILIATED AND THEN HAD A VERY
POWERFUL COMMUNIST PARTY N 1932 WHEN
HITLER WAS APPROACHING,
BECOMING PLAUSIBLE AS THE LEADER, THE
TWO GROWING PARTIES WERE NAZI AND THE
COMMUNIST PARTY. HITLER SOLD
HIMSELF AS THE MOST USEFUL
BARRIER. HE NEVER WON A
MAJORITY. THEY BROUGHT HIM
INTO THE TENT BECAUSE HE WAS THE
ONE WHO WAS FIGHTING THE COMMUNISTS. HE WAS
TOUGH.>>LET ME STOP YOU
FOR JUST A SECOND. THERE MAY BE A
PARALLEL WITH TRUMP EVEN IN
THAT, AT LEAST WITHIN THE CONTEXT
OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY. HE’S NOT WINNING A
MAJORITY OF ANY OF THESE PRIMARIES. HE HAS A FRACTURED
PARTY WITH MULTIPLE
CANDIDATES. AND HE LOOKS LIKE
THE ALPHA DOG BY WINNING A THIRD OF
THE VOTE. >>YES. THE APPEAL TO
OVERCOMING WEAKNESS IS VERY
DEFINITELY A POWER HUB. WE DO NOT FACE A
REVOLUTION. HE HAS SOMETHING
OF A STRETCH, I THINK, TO SAY THIS
COUNTRY IS ON THE VERGE OF A
SOCIALIST REVOLUTION.>>AND YOU MENTIONED
INDIVIDUALISM BEFORE.>>YES.>>ONE OF THE
ENEMIES OF FASCISTS.>>YES.>>DIFFERENT THAN
THE UNITED STATES.>>THIS IS THE TEA
PARTY AND NOT TRUMP EXACTLY. THEY’RE WORKING
TOGETHER. IDEA IS THAT
INDIVIDUALISM IS THE MOST SACRED OF
OUR IDEALS AND YOU’RE NOT
SUPPOSED TO BE LIMITED BY
ANYTHING AND THE GOVERNMENT HAS NO
BUSINESS TELLING A MINE OWNER HE
CAN’T SEND MINERS INTO A DANGEROUS
MINE. EXCEPT FOR THE
WELFARE STATE, HITLER WANTED TO
REVIVE THE COUNTRY WITHOUT LABOR
UNIONS TO BE SURE, BUT NEVERTHELESS
TAKING CARE OF EVERYBODY.>>IT SEEMS TO ME THERE
ARE BOTH LIBERAL AND CONSERVATIVE
CRITIQUES OF INDIVIDUAL
LIBERALISMS IN THIS COUNTRY. LIBERALS SAY
THEY’RE AGAINST MATERIALISM,
CAREERISM AND THAT KIND OF THING AND
CONSERVATIVES DON’T LIKE
LIFESTYLE, SEXUAL INDIVIDUALISM,
THINGS LIKE THAT. DEPARTING FROM
RELIGIOUS INSTITUTIONS. SO CRITIQUE OF
INDIVIDUALISM ON THE RIGHT, I DON’T
KNOW IF IT’S TRUMP EXACTLY BUT IT’S
THERE, ISN’T IT?>>YES, YES. OF COURSE IT’S
THERE. WHAT IS NOT THERE
IS TRUMP — THOUGH IT MIGHT COME SOME
DAY, IS THE REGIMENTATION. THE FASCIST
PRESENTING THEMSELVES TO A
PEOPLE THAT WAS DISTRESSED BY
LOSS. TEMPTATION WAS
JOINING THE HITLER YOUTH, JOINING
SOMETHING, WEARING A UNIFORM,
MARCHING. THIS WAS
ENORMOUSLY HEALING TO A COUNTRY THAT
HAD BEEN — THERE’S NOTHING OF
THAT NOW. HE MAY SOME DAY
TRY IT. >>WHAT DO YOU
THINK OF HIS FOLLOWERS IN THAT
RESPECT? HE IS DRAWING
THESE HUGE CROWD. >>BUT THEY’RE NOT
WEARING UNIFORMS AND THEY’RE NOT
DOING — THEY’RE NOT MARCHING UP
AND DOWN — THEY’RE NOT BEING
REGIMENTED. THEY ARE
ENTHUSIASTIC BUT NOT BEING
REGIMENTED.>>AND THIS
RELUCTANCE ON THE PART OF TRUMP TO
CLEARLY DENOUNCE DAVID DUKE AND
WHITE SUPREMACISTS? IT’S ALMOST AS IF
HE’S NOT TRYING TO ALIENATE A CERTAIN
PART OF HIS BASE. >>HE’S CAPABLE OF
MAKING TERRIBLE GAFS AND SURVIVING
THEM. NO ONE WHO LOVES
HIM SEEMS TO CARE WHAT HE SAYS.
>>ARE THEY GAFFES OR IS HE DOING
THIS WHOLE THING ON PURPOSE BECAUSE
HE UNDERSTANDS HISTORY AND
RHETORIC?>>I WOULD HAVE
THOUGHT THAT GROUP IS SO SMALL HE
DOESN’T NEED TO APPEAL FOR THEM. THEY’RE GOING TO
VOTE FOR HIM ANYWAY IF THEY
VOTE. I THINK HE’S
IMPULSIVE. IT DOESN’T SEEM TO
HURT HIM. >>THANK YOU VERY
MUCH FOR SHEDDING SOME LIGHT ON FASCISM.>>THANK YOU.>>AND THAT’S “POTUS
2016” FOR TODAY. WE’RE HERE EACH
WEEK AT THIS HOUR TRACKING THE
PRESIDENTIAL HORSE RACE AND POURING
COLD HARD FACTS ON THE OVERHEATED
CAMPAIGN RHETORIC. I’M BRIAN LEHRER.
THANKS FOR WATCHING.

One thought on “POTUS 2016: Super Tuesday and Fascism

  1. He may not be a classic fascist in every respect but he does project a very authorotarian image and the only policies we know he plans to carry out are based on excluding/marginalizing certain groups that are perceived to make the country unsafe/weak.

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