Politics Live 25 July 2019

Politics Live 25 July 2019



panoply of EU law and it's Thursday it's 12:15 and we're live in Westminster on Boris Johnson's first full day as Prime Minister joining me today former University's minister and Conservative MP Chris Skidmore shadow Treasury Minister Clive Lewis Helen Lewis of the Atlantic and Times columnist Ian Martin it could be the hottest day on record in the UK and the political temperature is rising too high and all ministers are committed to leading on this date whatever the circumstances and to do otherwise would cause a catastrophic loss of confidence in our political system the new prime minister throws down the gauntlet to the EU saying brexit will happen by the 31st of October but not everyone is convinced the country is deeply worried that the new prime minister overestimates himself well good morning everybody after yesterday's ruthless reshuffled the new-look cabinet meets for the first time but can they deliver I'd like to welcome Laura Coons Berg to to the studio the BBC's political editor we're going to start today's program with part of the statement the first statement delivered by Boris Johnson as prime minister in the House of Commons the mistake so immediate steps in the first is to restore trust in our democracy and fulfill the repeated promises of Parliament to the people by coming out of the European Union and doing so on October I had all ministers are committed to leading on this date whatever the circumstances and to do otherwise would cause a catastrophic loss of confidence in our political system it will leave the British people wondering whether their politicians could ever be trusted again to follow a clear democratic instruction I would prefer us to leave the EU with a deal I would much prefer it I believe that it is possible even at this late stage and I will work flat-out to make it happen but certain things need to be clear the withdrawal agreement negotiated by my predecessor has been three times rejected by this house its terms are unacceptable to this Parliament and to this country let me get your opening thoughts on that statement Chris get more well I think it was bold it was clear and set out with confidence where we need to be we've got 98 days to go to the 31st of October and I think the new prime minister to assess out this is his absolute number-one priority I also saw in the statement he set out there there was no limit on the amount of money that he would spend in order to be able to deliver on No Deal preparations which hasn't been the case under the previous Chancellor and so it's all systems go live what do you mean what you expected I mean he's coming I mean he's he's gonna spend money he's coming with the bluster he's coming with its what you expect from Boris I have to say I think in terms of what he's planning on spending I'd like to see where and arch Thatcher I like Sajid Javid who will be I think fiscally reticent to want to spend lots of money is going to materialize that money I mean I know there's meant to be some Headroom in the budget around about 25 to 27 billion but where's this money I'd like to know where that's going to come from how they're gonna spend it what they're gonna spend it on what they're gonna do with it I think there's some real your questions there for us in the Treasury team to challenge him on Helen I enjoyed it almost as much so enjoyed it when you get basically the same speech yesterday and how much was that not very much at all because the trouble is that you know he's renowned as this great orator of obviously someone who said cool it on the jokes so yesterday and today there was barely any Latin which was quite restrained of him I felt barely any jokes and barely any of that kind of wordplay was a bit awesome foursome yesterday but the trouble is can Boris Johnson do serious and I'm really not sure that it just seemed quite vapid dispute that a bit I mean he's always had a problem at the despatch-box he's not a natural despatch-box performer I mean he's brilliant after-dinner speeches but when he was foreign secretary wasn't great on his feet it looked to me as though they they have been training him and actually thought it was rather good today just from the snatches that I've seen there and I think it looked like a more serious Boris more broadly I have doubts about where Boris is going with all of this but he is at least being I think pretty bold in his choices and he is acting like the Prime Minister who faces up to reality he has one shot at this probably about a hundred days in which to get it right or wrong relentlessly optimistic it sounded it was all about sunny uplands the greatest place on earth the UK is and will continue to be so what did they think of it Laura you probably bumped into a couple of conservatives or talked along the way possibly of being what's happening some sort of MPs during the statement you never know one of them may have suggested to me that they were watching it and they described it as being like being stuck in Shaun of the Dead but there are other conservative MPs sitting in the chamber and some of them of course are devoting their loyalty on Twitter who think actually particularly in how he and the later exchanges went after Jeremy Corbyn that's why they've chosen him this sort of steamroller who will not be diverted if in doubt stand up and say I think the world's going to be wonderful you lot think the world is going to be terrible and it's interesting to me and actually all of you have touched on this it's not different Boris Johnson if our viewers were thinking we were going to suddenly see a different statesman at the despatch-box now he's got that big job maybe not world king but prime minister of the UK he's not going to be different and that's a really interesting thing because of course during the frenzy of the leadership campaign you know a lot of people wrote a lot of column inches about whether or not he would suddenly be different he's not going to be different he went in all guns blaze thing on this October the 31st do-or-die I mean he has to of course stick to that pledge but is it a case of enthusiasm conquers all the art of the impossible well yeah and politics of course is the art of the possible not the art of the impossible but I have to say what we saw sort of by the way the cabinet all arrived this morning the fact that they are as I understand it we're still waiting for the detail which is what will tell us if it's real or not but they are promising they're going to announce something new and different and more extensive as a guarantee for EU citizens living in this country today I I hasten to add let's see what it actually is in black and white but there is a sense of urgency around the place I mean there just is and we haven't felt that for such a long time know it might be urgency to strap ourselves to a grenade and hope that the clock doesn't countdown before it goes off or it might be urgency that actually you can see this narrow window where he just might be able to get things done possibly diversity has to hit that deadline or resign well the big story of this year really is that the brexit party which didn't exist really in January or February has gone from nothing to threatening to split apart the Conservative Party and he if he reneged on the 31st of October or as some people speculate shifts to a second referendum which i think is highly unlikely he would be destroyed instantly by the people who made him Tory leader I mean it's very simple now I mean put aside all the party politics we are taking back the dial the country voted to leave the European Union seventeen point four million people the large number of one side ever the Conservative Party manifests in 2017 was to deliver article 50 and that meant in a no deal scenario were unable to get a deal and we've saw the collapse not only the Conservative Party but potentially of the trust in the political system if we don't make this happen on the 31st of October what do mean the interesting thing about that is what about this so-called Spartans that group of Euroskeptics and the Tory party who didn't vote for the deal because they're the big kind of question in all this if the idea is to come back with another version essentially the backstop tweet of the same deal then it's okay to pick up a few labors you've got to reconcile those ultra hardline Tory Euroskeptics that could be the greatest irony of this is that actually how did those people gonna react just a couple of things really worth noting in the statement he's called for it the abolition of the backs table and he also said that a time limit would not be enough now is when someone who was very involved in the campaign on the very Euroskeptic side of things basically said we have him in a box they think that they have trapped him into a position where he has to do their bidding or their go after him there's a big question there for those people where would they go because they put their man into number 10 and not all the breaks tears are happy about the apartment Chris's point and there'll be there'll be millions of people at home screaming at a TV I don't have millions of viewers but we do the people who vote if a brexit the vast majority of them the overwhelming Jordan did not vote for no deal brexit that's quite clear I think brexit made many things different people but that was not being campaigned upon and I think to make the assumption that you can't you have the support of the British people if you're breaks it just say maybe but they won't ask that's your opinion no it's not people won out I mean and I feel or note yeah well fair enough but the situation is is that we promised that we'd be leaving the European Union we have the referendum we've got to deliver on that referendum Deal or No Deal we've got to get out of European you were part of tourism a steam do you want out now at on No Deal well I've always said I wanted a campaign or a deal I think there's parts of the withdrawal agreement like on education research partnerships we could just pay the money and stay within those and I think that's worthwhile exploring for the future but we've got to be able to regain trust this is so critical and we put aside all these you don't know deal I don't necessarily want no deal but I will leave with a diol like any Minister or any member of the cabinet has signed up now to leaving on the 31st of October Deal or No Deal right and are you a minister I said you were the former university because your post has been taken by Boris Johnson's brother Joe Johnson where are you I'm in flight I think at the moment it's not about week and it's not about other ministers it's about ensuring the Prime Minister is absolute on a new administration to be able to pick his team he's picked the cabinet the most diverse cabinet ever and when it comes to actually new ministers deciding whether to carry on they've got to commit to you know leaving on the 31st of October but also ensuring that if they want to be part of this team it's not about them it's about delivering for the country and getting back the country's trust so a return to collective responsibility can I just say to the number-10 team we have Chris get more here he's waiting for his new post in the cabinet perhaps his minute of State let's just show what happened it's been an extraordinary 24 hours in which Boris Johnson dismissed around 17 or so ministers from Teresa mais government reshaped it completely to deliver bricks it by the end of October let's have a look at that first cabinet meeting held this morning at around 8:30 they were all gathered I think it's a record number of Ministers but let's show the front pages with Daily Mail all guns blazing this referring to the cabinet carnage as some people saw it let's move on to another headline the Sun knight of the blonde knives as the Sun looked at it The Guardian ruthless Johnson takes his revenge and The Times Johnson's afternoon of cabinet carnage Laura how would you describe it well I think the thing about cabinet is it's not a reshuffle it's a new government it is so old people say what a dramatic reshuffle it's not a reshuffle it's a new government and it's not just a new government it's a campaign it's not a team ready there for an election just in case it's a campaign in number 10 sort of I was gonna say squatting there that's not squatting there he won he's moved in it's a campaign takeover of Downing Street now important not to over exaggerate this there are people in there like Nicky Morgan Matt Hancock and Bharat who were completely on the other side of the dial on all sorts of different issues but it's clear to me that it is a different direction for the Conservative Party and it is a team who are willing to put this deadline of October 31st above everything else but what's interesting though and maybe we shouldn't be surprised in policies while some people have been sort of horrified by all of this and how many people he sacked and all the rest quite a few of the people who are upset about how many people have been cleared out are the same people who've been going around for three years saying that the cabinet is not up to much and it's full of dead wood and I'm a steam we're all gray and boring and didn't know what they're doing right don't hold me a politician who might want to have it always what a surprise but one very brief point I just want to make I think is really important the kind of dialogue is all goodness me the deadline makes everything so difficult he'll never get it done in the time actually flip it the other way the speeds the advantage because it means that people have to concentrate minds it means then that in the cabinet people in oh my goodness I've got to sign up to this and we have to put everything forward and it's there's something ruthless about that that is risky it's one take of course and it's hugely risky but as ever you know crafty politicians are the one who use a nightmare and turn it into something that works for them I think there's one take I think he's may have sown the seeds of his own destruction here no it's very clear that he sees himself as a 21st century Churchill kind of in you know he's kind of quick now I'm watching well push he's pushed the kind of chambering like character out who stumble back from Europe saying peace in our time it's fall in the right away side he's on the brink but the difference here is unlike Churchill who had the confidence to be able to create a war cabinet that involved Chamberlain and Halifax he's two of his big rivals the equivalent of hunt and may being on his cabinet he's boarding an ideologically pure a team of crony 70% of them from public schools historically historically that there's a crucial difference Churchill was made prime minister by the Labour Party not by the Tory party surely it wasn't even leader of the Tory party when he became prime minister and he went he second more cabinet to bring some of them on but my point here is I think what he's done I think there is now a very extreme group of ideologically pure Tories around him and I think the rest of his it's interesting to note who wasn't in the chamber today it was the former prime minister Murray David Gork and and mr. Clark who are seen talking very intensive I don't think we'll our key of the Tory party we're making themself will come on to what they will do on the back benches but picking up on class point do you see it as a hard right as an ideologically pure cabinet and government I don't actually I mean as someone who was pretty critical in the run-up and during the campaign and I thought it looked as though Boris didn't have a plan I think you have to hand it to him he clearly did have a pretty ruthless plan he realizes that he's got one go at this and he's put together a team that I think it's actually really rather refreshing a lot of the people who are moaning about having been fired don't realize that people are really bored of this drama of the last 18 months of just will they won't they resign and he's essentially fired anyone who who could who could threaten him or threatened to resign a few months down the line and he's been really ruthless about it I think it's it is it's a 100 days administration it is essentially it is a preparation we look at where Gove is and where dominates to set up at all what I think will be really early let me just interject because we should play you the response or part of it from the Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn we have a hard right cabinet staking everything on tax cuts for the few and a reckless brace race to the bottom brexit he says he has pluck nerve and ambition our country does not need arm-waving bluster but competence seriousness and after a decade of divisive policies for the few to focus for once on the interests of the many Helen here's some BBC bounce where I enjoyed that speech just as much as I have every other time that Jeremy go for that bit of BBC balance you know I mean led on austerity obviously this is gonna be one of his big attack but really interesting if those spending taps are gonna go on but to pick up a Laura's point about the kind of idea of a hell for leather kind of administration Priti Patel in the home office absolutely fascinating appointment that is not someone you would see you know serving out quietly five years she left government for essentially open up a back channel to a foreign government I say she's got as much chance of surviving in that role for a couple of years I don't know and only slowly stand in this weather it's not going to happen this is a an ideological cabinet for a one specific purpose and I don't see really going the distance on the issue though posterity you talked about the money in the spending taps being turned on Sajid Javid obviously signed in and signed up to whatever could be needed in the case of no deal but beyond that isn't it something you would welcome twenty thousand more police officers made of social care I think it has made a really interesting point there it's pretty clear that people have been shoehorned into positions in part for this hundred days campaign that Boris is about to wage and it means that a lot of the positions that would normally be in place a lot of so for example Sajid Javid as a Thatcher I would be talking about tax cuts will be talking about fiscal responsibility but now he's gonna have a hundred days to basically turn those taps on and blow that out of the water I imagine Boris Johnson has said to him win me votes spend money get any votes prepared prepare for a potential election because that's what ultimately what Santa Chavez job is not for fiscal responsibility it is ideological on brexit but it's not actually it's really pretty one nation okay there are certain appointments which people are going to be particularly annoyed by but if you look across the cabinet the pitch and this is where it's a problem for labor is going to be quite one nation and whether there is the money to pay for it or not that's a different question it is going to prepare for a month of spending announcements like we've never seen before and not your administration allows I think for announcements that maybe couldn't be made by the previous administration because obviously 20,000 more police you know previous Prime Minister's Home Secretary there was never an issue with me now we can clearly say we want 20,000 more police on the streets when it comes to schools 5,000 for secondary school pupils for thousands of primary school peoples clear bold commitments that were tangible into local communities the priority is brexit and that date of October the 31st so let's go and speak to the Financial Times Brussels bureau chief Alex Barker Alex having listened to that statement there were two clear signs for the EU in terms of his challenge to the negotiators whenever they return which is the abolition the dropping completely of the backstop and that he wouldn't accept that part of or the whole of the UK should be part of any Customs Union are the EU going to negotiate along those lines that from here they see their biggest problem being Boris Johnson and their biggest hope being Boris Johnson they were pretty gloomy before he was elected and they're even more gloomy and despondent now he in that statement today boxed himself so in you could probably put him under a Christmas tree and it's very unlikely that they're going to late but they're just not gonna negotiate on those terms now they are hoping that he is able to backflip and twist and sell the unsellable and come to them in the mood to do a deal it's just the deal they're offering his is not the kind of thing he's talking about now right well I'm just going to interrupt you briefly we're going to play a bit of Leo for a de cobre t-shirt in Ireland and his response yesterday following Boris Johnson's statement on the steps of Downing Street areas listening to what he said today I got the impression that he wasn't just talking about deleting the back stuff he was talking about a whole new deal a better deal for Britain that's not going to happen at the European Council doesn't meet until the 12th of October now we've no plans to meet any earlier earlier than that and even if we were to change the negotiating guidelines we wouldn't be changing to them so any suggestion that there can be a whole new deal and negotiated in weeks or months is totally not in the real world can the EU hold that line is it sustainable though I think it is probably you know they will not want to be seen as giving up on a member state or the Irish even if the Irish mood I think a lot of them would be very reluctant to look as if they're rewarding someone who they see as Britain's Trump so if it's outside of the very clear red lines that they've been drawing for the past two years they are not going to play random and I'm I think they would see the costs which are considerable for both sides have been no deal to be bearable given the political cost there would be of caving in stay with us if you care well so I mean so he's turbocharged and politicize this all the way through I think it's been a huge mistake but yeah I haven't got a solution to the Irish backstopped at hand otherwise I'd run for the Tory leadership myself you know there is this opportunity so you look at negotiation as over the summer and there's a game of poker and yeah the problem is last time with this game we put our cards down too early and I think that you know we saw bettin a complete collapse and confidence in our negotiating position obviously Boris has taken that back to be able to say that we've got to look at this seriously and to be able to demonstrate no deal is a realistic scenario we're gonna prepare for it we're going to make sure we're absolutely ready and we're not backing down right so alex is the EU preparing in the same way for no deal I mean they they are in legal terms pretty well prepared it doesn't look like they're going to be passing any more of what they've been calling the contingency measures to allow for a period where it's kind of slightly softer arrangements for planes and trucks and other things where they're probably falling short is on the kind of administrative side you know the do all the companies have they've done the paperwork they need to do in civil and obviously on island where they're nowhere near prepared and there will be a lot more pressure on the Irish to to step up what they're planning to do in the event of a no deal but you know the this again is secondary compared to you know if I can't imagine a way to put the argument in a manner which would more definite end up with them taking a robust line and and holding firm than what I just heard in the comment Alex thank you very much for joining us said this is what amber rod was talking about the collision with reality is that what the Boris Johnson government is staring at at this moment I think it is but I think that they know that and I think they're not in any question I don't I don't think they doubt that is what they're going to hear first of all from the European Union they know that and certainly what they will hear publicly they are obviously putting enormous faith in the idea that somehow Boris Johnson can crack the heads together of Angela Merkel and Emmanuel macron and liver at carat with Yonker as his last act to be doing a deal because for John called young Co departing his legacy to be Britain crashing oh it was no deal would be an absolute disaster but my goodness it is you know it's extremely high risk now that said and Alex is impeccably contacted and in Brussels you know and they're holding the line logged in in very quiet moments some European diplomats have said and do say things like Boris Johnson could be an opportunity Boris Johnson is a chance to reset to restart this is not impossible and it doesn't mean for a second that they want they're asking possible for a deal but Boris Johnson is just given I will fight them on the beaches speech literally and box himself in so in many ways it seems it some of it might be bluster but he's I think you know the more you think about it and you look at his cabinet and you look at the people he's put in place you talk about a campaign it looks like he's heading for no deal and they see that the plan just head for No Deal well no I think I think in an ideal world they would they would get a deal I don't think they're gonna get one the dates are quite difficult really you think the public they are it comes back on September 3rd if you're trying to gain this from the new Prime Minister's perspective yeah I suspect that you probably try and bring this to a head when Parliament comes back because if you think over the course of August the initial British attempts at reaching out to try and get some sort of compromise will either have been rebuffed or we'll have been returned with a polite pathetic response from angular Merkel which doesn't really isn't really enough so Parliament will know if it's looking at No Deal in September that one September the 3rd I think if he wants an election will come to that before the 31st he then has to activate that plan all or around that time you just look at the number of days and that the campaign they have to actually happen then I suspect you'll then see number 10 say the Parliament right okay do you want to cancel No Deal do you want to revoke what's it what's your plan and bring it to a head and then Boris can then say on the one hand and blocked by the European Union on the other hand I'm blocked by Parliament you decide right well that we're going to talk about a possible early general election but before that Ian Blackford leader of the SNP in Westminster had this stark warning of course I should welcome the Prime Minister tees plays the last Prime Minister of the United Kingdom [Applause] it is often said that the Prime Minister lives in a parallel universe for my goodness that's been proven beyond any reasonable doubt this morning in fact it looked as if he's about to launch himself into outer space risks to the Union and the rise of support for a second independence referendum no I think that when we voted to leave the Union as a whole voted to leave more people voted to leave in Scott and the voters for the SNP at the last general election I voted to remain in Scotland the majority people voted to remain but in terms of that referendum we went in that referendum as a union and we all deliver that result with referendum as a union and we've got to make sure that we go forwards having left the European Union strengthened Union by making the investments in our devolved nations to demonstrate the advantages they can have like I said he'll be the last prime minister of United Kingdom for a long time there's all sorts of things which turn out to not be the case but still well I'm a unionist and not a nationalist City Union always believed always believed that the Nationalists are too often sort of taken at their own estimation in England but I am very worried about the future of the Union and I think it is in grave peril I think the Tories in Scotland now have a serious problem because Ruth Davidson and Mandel David Mandel who was removed from the cabinet secretary of state were a team if you like in the Ruth Davidson is gonna have to fight an election in 2021 and Mandel was good at managing that relationship and managing the relationship between London and Edinburgh and Boris has decided essentially to fire Mandel and replace him with someone who might might not be to the liking of Team David Davidson tried to block David Mandel being sacked from the government and she's understood today to be absolutely livid about the appointment of the new Secretary of State for Scotland alistair jack now I don't think that's any particular animus towards others to Jack but Ruth Davidson has sort of arrived on the scene in the Scottish Tory world by changing the stereotypes or challenging the stereotypes of a Scottish conservative sort of red corduroy Brigade there's a real fear and there's even chatter among Scottish stories about possibly breaking away turn about the sack King they said oh I'm sure it was all amicable I just can't see the irony that it's not the Scottish nationalists that might break up the Union but it's English nationalism headed by Boris and the Tory party that could well destroy the Union and I think there's an irony in there then it's often the English that have tried to hold it together or been at the fourth amend the way that Boris Johnson the Conservative Party's is acting and operating and pushing the Union apart that's likely that it could be seeking a third cabinet to meet I think in Scotland next week I think I understand so they're gonna happen it's more about one person you I've just lost my job so Johnson it doesn't make a difference through we want to make the commitment as a party when it comes to policy whether that's universities whether that's you know looking at Scotland that all departments need to be doubling their efforts to demonstrate what they're doing for Scotland Wales what they do for Northern Ireland we've just got to put aside personalities just focus on the task at hand which is delivering brexit and when it comes to so-called English nationalism like half to three-quarters or labor seats you know voting to leave these aren't just Tory seats here these are labour seats this does have big implications for in any election right because how did Theresa make cobble together and actually what we know where those Tory seats from the kind of Osborne's squeeze in the southwest of England I know those could go back to the battle to save the Union rests really with the next Scottish election in 2021 where if there is a nationalist majority and Ruth Davidson fails or fall short because the Tories are unpopular in Scotland then you're in circumstances where the Nationalists have the right effectively it's a whole let me let me introduce Joe Swenson the new ish leader now of the Liberal Democrat she's in central lobby we have been talking about obviously the statement by Boris Johnson and the response from Jeremy Corbyn do you want a vote of no confidence in Boris Johnson today I think we should table that today absolutely because actually if you look at the timetable to get this done before the 31st of October if we were to have a general election if it is not tabled today there's no guarantee that it would be possible to have a general election in advance of that exit date the Clarkes of the Commons have set out how that home table could work and the the vote would actually have to take place on the first day back which would mean that tabeling would have to happen today and that's why I've not only tabled a motion but also written to Jeremy Corbyn as leader of the Official Opposition who is the only one who is able to formally request that motion of no-confidence yes but they don't think they don't think and we heard John McDonnell yesterday they don't think labor that they can win that no-confidence motion are you disappointed that labor aren't joining yet again we have the Labour Party missing in action when it comes to break say and you know you have to wonder given that Jeremy Corbyn is keen to deliver bricks that he was saying at the despatch-box again today how you know he would you know want to have a laborer breaks it and you know deals and what his criteria for deals would be yes entirely forgetting the fact that a knee breaks that is going to be damaging for our public services and for a jobs and for workers rights and environmental protections so right they want to deliver brexit I mean is that why they're well they're not being gone quiet we've got Clive Lewis here missing in action I think we've been quite clear you get one shot at this and you've got to make sure that you've got the numbers if you're gonna do it and I think it's right that we see let Boris Johnson bed in over the summer and then make a decision if we think there are enough conservatives will join us to be able to call a no conference now isn't the time to do that but I want to ask Joe she says that Labour's been quite clear we're backing remain and PV under any circumstances and if there's a Labour government we'll also make sure that we renegotiate bricks and then put it back to the British people I want to ask Joe a question what would the Liberal Democrats do if they were part of a coalition what would you what would be on that ballot paper for a PV would you just revoke the article 50 what would you do be honest with the British problem I I think we should put a deal again we seal the deal that has been negotiated is the best Royal agreement as it stands if you would you you would put brexit you would put brexit as a possibility on a banner that's fine that's I'm saying that this should be a people's vote we have fact that from those very winning labour still are not unequivocal backing that and Jeremy Corbyn clearly want brexit to happen I'm working with you know many of your propaganda Joe let's work together to stop this but it's not gonna be held if you're going to try to make cheap party political shot the issue issue no she's not right and I think what what you can see both labour Liberal Democrats are pretty much in the same place we're just saying that we've got a labor deal on the ballot paper you're saying you're put trees amazed the on the numbers speak for themselves the last general election the combined laboratory vote was eighty percent and now over four party politics with all of us roughly on twenty percent that's because the Tories haven't delivered on brexit why the brexit parties arrived no one knows what Labour stands for which is why you know when it comes to Liberal Democrats you know people know they're the remain part alright and that's why we've got for Joe I mean listening to you and Clive from the Labour Party sort of disputing arguing where you stand I mean Boris Johnson will love this you know both of you on the remains height and split lots of Labour MPs are working constructively on the people's vote campaign and that is important but I do think that it is nonsense to characterize Labor's position as unequivocally remained when we've just heard Clive say and we've just heard Jeremy Corbyn see that they would seek to negotiate a Labour Briggs a Briggs it is bad news when our country doesn't master if you stick a red rosette on it it is still bad for our country in any shape or form all the government's analysis shows that we know that in terms of our public services in terms of our prosperity in tomorrow jobs for people breaks it is sad for Britain and that's why the Liberal Democrats are determined to stop have you had any conversations with some of those Tory cabinet ministers who have been sacked I've I've been in contact with some of them and I have private conversations with be sure all different parties and are they thinking of joining forces with you if not not defecting but just just stop brexit lot of genuine cross party cooperation including with people who were in government who are who are keen to make sure that we care of our country back on a sense half and that means how to deliver people's hunter to be able to stop that well how would you deliver a people's vote as we stand now with those ministers whom we know don't want No Deal how would you deliver either a second referendum or stop brexit there's different mechanisms that are being looked at and there's further discussions happening over the summer so one option is to take control of the order paper has happened back in March and to be able to put forward a bill or motion to require the request for an extension for article 50 for the purposes of holding a people's vote for example and obviously there's discussions about how to prevent prorogation how to prevent crashing out without a deal as well obviously some people have talked about you know circumstances which might be slightly more unusual right really Joseph that's going to be made more difficult by the new leader of the House Jacob Riis MOG who clearly stated this morning in his first outing that he is going to stick to parliamentary Convention and not allow as he put it in I paraphrase some of the more arcane procedures to do the sort of thing that you're talking about well I I think we will be going up against Jacob Riis Morgan in lots of ways and it was a lot of very there's a lot of very clever parliamentary brains around on the people's vote side and I wouldn't assume that Jacob Riis MOG for all of his love of quoting Erskine may I wouldn't assume that he is the fount of all knowledge on all things parliamentary all right so while you want a general election footing yes absolutely okay an election could come at any time and a yacht but it absolutely might and as Liberal Democrats we are ambitious we we now know that there are hundreds of seats that are in play for the Liberal Democrats right and do you honestly think the Lib Dems could be the largest party I do right dude Clive you're sort of scoffing here well on the basis if you're a remain voter why would you vote for the Labour Party because what will Labour have in their manifesto if there is a general election we'd have it basically we would have the opportunity for people to have a public vote on a deal that a Labour government would negotiate and bring back and I know we put a bar but what I'm saying is that the Labour Party would probably look at in 1975 be given a free opportunity to be able to campaign on that what I would say to Joe though is that Joe I understand that Party politics you've got to be able to make some games you've got to be able to knock the other parties but this is a big issue and it's an existential issue for the country in many ways and what I would say to Joe there are lots of us in the Labor Party but want to work to stop this Tory No Deal brexit and if you can just for a few minutes a few days a few months not try to party political points core we want to work with you to do this we want to you need us in the chamber to get the numbers to get there to get the no-confidence we want to work with you but please come on you don't want to work with Jeremy Corbyn though do you Joe I I think jeremy corbyn's of breakfast area needs somebody who's not dealing with anti-semitism in his own party he does not represent the values behind that I thought I thought you can't do this without the look in terms of what climb is saying I do want to work with people in all parties but I I would question what he says when he says to stop a new deal break that of course that needs to be done but the the logical extension of what he's saying is that some other kind of breaks there is going to be okay I'm said I want us to Brick's it this this not no deal fist gets no deal stopped and that's not brexit but it's work together but you're not going to do something as well we we absolutely will work together on that Clive as you know that we already are through the people's work campaign and through the various different groups and and and you know arrangements and meetings and so on that exist but I'm not confident at all in your leader Clive well jeremy corbyn's desire to stop breaks it because he can't bring himself to say it what about working with the SMP and I'm doing I'm working with the SNP on the people's work campaign on stopping drugs they're absolutely working with the more formal in their price would be a second independence referendum look we just agree on independence myself and the Lib Dems and the SNP that doesn't mean that we can't work together on stopping brigs it and we don't need to agree on everything together pretty fundamental things aren't they when it comes to the Union or an independent Scotland they are fundamental things but I don't think you need to agree with somebody on everything to be able to work with them on the things where you do agree I just with Andrea lets them on almost different things but I managed to work with her on introducing proxy voting in the House of Commons and improving the system for staff who work in this place who have been subject to bullying and harassment so I think you work with people where you agree where you can find that common ground that is a mature way in which we can do our politics thank you very much Joseph Winston there from central lobby what future is there for the remain alliance the stop No Deal and stop brexit I think it's a very tough one and I think climb is giving us a bit disingenuine about the idea of this kind of hands around the rainbow and let's all work together because the Labour attack operation swung into business as soon as Joe Swinton was acting she was part of that coalition government she signed up to austerity they were murdering people you know I think the idea that they were going to skip off into this happy stop brings at sunset is incredibly overrated right and what about talk of at an early general election do we now think that that is inevitable well I mean politics are so crazy at the moment who knows what is inevitable I think I think the chances of it are very high before October the 31st because I think team Boris will have little alternative other than to bring it to a head but you just got there in those fascinating exchanges you just got the sense there of what could be the dream scenario for Boris Johnson which is that if you end up in a situation where he does enough to effectively shut down the brexit party or to or to encourage the brexit party not to stand in a general election there is a route to the Tories getting to 37 38 39 points simultaneously the remain vote as we've just seen is split between labour and the Liberal Democrat I would say that being live on a daily politics Current Affair program isn't probably the best place for negotiation between two yeah because I think I think that this politics is about scoring over different political part in that in that's ingrained into our politics sir it's a confrontation well it's the label and aside for the Liberal Democrats and so I don't think it needs to come to that but what I do know is that it is possible for those of us who want to stop brexit to work together it is possible we have we and we are and I think that's that's the important thing this program is where it's gonna happen it's Yabu politics but can I say – Chrissa but if bricks it hasn't been delivered and there is a general election yeah then surely you're toast when it comes to the brexit party yes they're just binary now we either deliver on the result of the referendum you either believe in the referendum or you don't believe and you either believe that the people who are allowed to give that chance and they voted to leave or you want to frustrate the referendum result and what I've just seen today you know this politicking is basically to say actually we don't believe in the referendum result that we actually don't trust the people and we want to stop brexit I mean actually that's where it's going to be is going Parliament is guaranteed but it looks as though Parliament is going to stop you all the people who said definitely leaving on March 29th turned out to be wrong there are the votes in Parliament those forces can't agree what how precisely they're going to do it but at some point over the summer they will agree how they're going to do it and they are determined to stop it which is then going to present you with the situation come back every time we have this conversation I just want to provide a sense check that says yes absolutely I agree with you result the referendum was very clear and if you're gonna have a referendum then you're gonna have to abide by it but what was never on that ballot paper was no deal in fact there was no we hugged a halfway through the campaign if we even talked about we're not we're going to leave the single market or not which is now seen as often or three times – Clive is voted against it no confidence on the first day or the second day back in September from Labour it's possible I don't make a decision it is entirely possible let's see what he does over the summer and we'll have a better idea I would also know about the numbers that potentially going to make a stand against Boris all right well let me show you and our viewers this picture from the cricket there is the former prime minister to resume with some of her sacked colleagues around her enjoying the sunshine while we're all here in the studio hopefully a big utter leggy meal when she's got a big is a good degree the best way to the top or is it still about who you are and where you're from which adding a role there's an elite about me which I can't manage when

15 thoughts on “Politics Live 25 July 2019

  1. Anyone else hate Clive Lewis?! Hes really a horrible man. When he started smacking his hands together and losing his temper I imagined him hitting his partner or something. Having said that he needs a smack so maybe I’m as bad

  2. If God himself became PM of this country opinionated commentators, like the ones asked to speak their drivel on this programme, would find something to whine about… 😡

  3. I don't agree with Jo Swinsons leadership election result. I think the "people" should have another vote until the "right' candidate wins.

  4. We "The people" voted to leave the EU. There was no mention we would have to agree to a surrender treaty or on EU terms of surrender. We leave without a surrender treaty.

  5. As usual chubby shitemonger Blackford plays to his usual gallery of haf a dozen or so similarly dellusional SNP cyphers.

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