PBS NewsHour Weekend full episode August 4, 2019

PBS NewsHour Weekend full episode August 4, 2019


>>Sreenivasan: ON THIS EDITION FOR SUNDAY, AUGUST 4…>>KEEP GOING– RUN OUT THAT WAY. KEEP GOING, KEEP GOING.>>Sreenivasan: TERROR AND TRAGEDY ACROSS AMERICA– TWO MASS SHOOTINGS IN LESS THAN 24 HOURS AND RENEWED CRIES FOR GUN CONTROL. NEXT ON “PBS NEWSHOUR WEEKEND.”>>FROM THE TISCH WNET STUDIOS AT LINCOLN CENTER IN NEW YORK, HARI SREENIVASAN.>>Sreenivasan: GOOD EVENING AND THANKS FOR JOINING US. TWO MASS MURDERS– ONE IN EL PASO, TEXAS, THE SECOND IN DAYTON, OHIO– WITHIN HOURS OF EACH OTHER. 29 PEOPLE ARE CONFIRMED DEAD. DOZENS ARE STILL HOSPITALIZED. THE VICTIMS RANGE IN AGE FROM TODDLERS TO PEOPLE IN THEIR 80s. GRIEVING COMMUNITIES BUILT MEMORIALS AS POLICE CONTINUED THEIR INVESTIGATIONS. PRESIDENT TRUMP ORDERED FLAGS TO BE FLOWN AT HALF STAFF ACROSS THE COUNTRY THROUGH AUGUST 8. LATE THIS AFTERNOON, MR. TRUMP TWEETED FROM HIS NEW JERSEY GOLF CLUB WHERE HE SPENT THE WEEKEND THAT, QUOTE, “…MELANIA AND I ARE PRAYING FOR ALL THOSE IMPACTED BY THIS UNSPEAKABLE ACT OF EVIL!” THE LATEST SHOOTING WAS IN DAYTON, OHIO, AT ABOUT 1:00 A.M. TODAY, WHEN A GUNMAN CARRYING MULTIPLE AMMUNITION MAGAZINES AND WEARING BODY ARMOR OPENED FIRE IN A POPULAR ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT. HE KILLED NINE PEOPLE AND WOUNDED MORE THAN TWO DOZEN OTHERS IN LESS THAN A MINUTE. POLICE ON PATROL KILLED THE SUSPECT, IDENTIFIED THIS AFTERNOON AS 24-YEAR-OLD CONNOR BETTS. IN EL PASO, TEXAS, FEDERAL PROSECUTORS ARE CALLING YESTERDAY’S SHOOTING AT A SHOPPING CENTER AND WALMART AN ACT OF DOMESTIC TERRORISM. STATE OFFICIALS SAY THEY WILL SEEK THE DEATH PENALTY FOR 21- YEAR-OLD PATRICK WOOD CRUSIUS, WHO SURRENDERED AT THE SCENE. WE WILL DEVOTE OUR ENTIRE BROADCAST TO THESE MASS SHOOTINGS. “NEWSHOUR WEEKEND’S” MEGAN THOMPSON BEGINS OUR COVERAGE WITH THE LATEST OUT OF DAYTON, OHIO.>>Reporter: GUNFIRE BROKE OUT EARLY THIS MORNING IN THE OREGON DISTRICT OF DOWNTOWN DAYTON, OHIO, AN AREA FULL OF POPULAR BARS AND RESTAURANTS. AROUND 1:00 A.M. LOCAL TIME, A GUNMAN BEGAN FIRING OUTSIDE A BAR, KILLING NINE AND WOUNDING 27. ACCORDING TO LOCAL OFFICIALS, THE ASSAILANT USED A HIGH- CALIBER RIFLE AND WAS WEARING BODY ARMOR AND A FACE MASK.>>JUST BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM, RAPID. YOU COULD TELL THERE’S A BIG GUN, YOU’RE NOT GOING TO GET THOSE FROM NO HANDGUN. YOU’RE NOT.>>Reporter: POLICE OFFICERS ON REGULAR PATROL ARRIVED ON THE SCENE QUICKLY, WHERE THEY SHOT AND KILLED THE SUSPECT. NAN WHALEY IS THE MAYOR OF DAYTON.>>DAYTON POLICE WERE ABLE TO STOP THE SHOOTER IN, IN LESS THAN A MINUTE WITH NINE, TEN FATALITIES, ONE INCLUDING THE SHOOTER. SO, REALLY, I JUST FEEL OURSELVES INCREDIBLY GRATEFUL FOR THE HEROIC ACTIONS OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT THAT WERE ABLE TO DO THIS.>>Reporter: THE CITY OF DAYTON TODAY RELEASED THE NAMES OF THE VICTIMS, WHO ARE MOSTLY IN THEIR 20s AND 30s. POLICE CONFIRMED ONE OF THE VICTIMS, MEGAN BETTS, IS THE SISTER OF THE ALLEGED SHOOTER. IN BELLBROOK, OHIO, A SUBURB OF DAYTON, LAW ENFORCEMENT CONDUCTED A SEARCH OF A HOME ASSOCIATED WITH THE SUSPECT. MEANWHILE, A VIGIL WAS HELD IN DAYTON TO MOURN THE VICTIMS. MAYOR NAN WHALEY TOLD “NEWSHOUR” ANOTHER VIGIL IS PLANNED FOR 8:00 P.M. TONIGHT.>>OUR COMMUNITY HAS AMAZING GRIT AND RESILIENCY AND WE ALWAYS COME TOGETHER THROUGH TRAGEDY AND THAT’S WHAT’S BEEN MOST AMAZING ABOUT OUR CITY, AND I THINK THAT WILL HAPPEN AGAIN TONIGHT BECAUSE WE KNOW, PEOPLE, THIS IS A CLOSE-KNIT COMMUNITY. PEOPLE WILL KNOW THE LOVED ONES WHO HAVE PASSED.>>Sreenivasan: FOR MORE ON THE INVESTIGATION AND THE VICTIMS IN OHIO, JIM BEBBINGTON, EDITOR OF THE “DAYTON DAILY NEWS,” JOINS US NOW VIA SKYPE. THANKS FOR BEING WITH US. FIRST, LET’S FOCUS ON THE VICTIMS HERE. WHAT DO WE KNOW ABOUT THE PEOPLE THAT WERE GUNNED DOWN LAST NIGHT.>>WELL, WE ARE STILL PUTTING ALL OF THAT TOGETHER. IT WAS A GROUP THAT INCLUDED THE SHOOTER’S SISTER. THAT WAS A NEW REVELATION JUST A SHORT WHILE AGO, SO WE’RE LOOKING INTO FAMILY DYNAMICS AND FAMILY ISSUES AS TO WHETHER THAT PLAYED ANY ROLE. THE OTHERS ARE A VERY CROSS SECTION OF DAYTON. A MAJORITY OF THE VICTIMS WERE AFRICAN-AMERICAN LAST NIGHT, BUT THERE WERE WHITE VICTIMS AS WELL. AND IT WAS A GROUP THAT JUST LOCALLY I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT WOULD BE A TYPICAL OREGON DISTRICT CROWD ON THE SIDEWALK ON A SATURDAY NIGHT.>>Sreenivasan: WHAT ABOUT ALL THE PEOPLE THAT WERE TAKEN TO HOSPITALS? WE HEARD THIS MORNING THAT A NUMBER OF THEM HAD ALREADY BEEN DISCHARGED?>>CORRECT, THERE WAS ONE PERSON THAT WAS DESCRIBED AS BEING IN CRITICAL CONDITION AND NEEDING TO GO INTO SURGERY, AND THEN THERE WERE MANY PEOPLE WHO WERE DISCHARGED, ALREADY, BY THE TIME THEY GAVE ANY INFORMATION OUT WITH EVERYTHING FROM SHOOTING WOUNDS TO SPRAINED ANKLES AND CUTS FROM THE CHAOS OF ESCAPING.>>Sreenivasan: THIS IS A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF CARNAGE IN A MINUTE, IF THAT’S HOW LONG IT TOOK FOR POLICE TO RESPOND.>>ABSOLUTELY. I MEAN, IT IS SOMETHING WE ARE ALSO STILL TRYING TO PIECE TOGETHER. THE VIDEOS THAT WE HAVE SEEN, WE’VE SEEN SOME SURVEILLANCE VIDEOS FROM NEIGHBORING FACILITIES OR NEIGHBORING BARS THAT HAD THEIR OWN CAMERAS OUT FRONT, AND IT ABSOLUTELY… IT DOESN’T EVEN LOOKS LIKE IT TAKES A MINUTE. IT LOOKS LIKE IT TAKES 30 SECONDS FROM THE VIDEOS THAT I’VE SEEN, SPRAYING A CROWD, PEOPLE RUNNING, GOING DOWN, AND THEN THE VIDEO THAT I’VE SEEN IN PARTICULAR, THINGS CALM DOWN ALMOST IMMEDIATELY.>>Sreenivasan: IS THERE ANYTHING MORE ABOUT THE MOTIVATIONS OF THE PERSON WHO DID THIS THAT’S BECOMING ANY CLEARER NOW?>>WELL, WE KNOW 24 YEARS OLD, A GENTLEMAN WHO GREW UP IN OUR AREA. WE HAVE BEEN LOOKING TO SPEAK TO ANYONE WHO KNEW HIM GROWING UP, MINING SOCIAL MEDIA. THERE ARE SOME IMAGES THAT, IF THEY ARE HIM, SHOW, WHEN HE WAS A YOUNG TEENAGER, A PREDILECTION TOWARDS SOME FAIRLY VIOLENT LANGUAGE THAT HE LIKED TO TAKE PICTURES OF, SKETCHINGS INTO NOTEBOOKS THAT HE WOULD THEN SHARE ON SOCIAL MEDIA. SO THAT IS WHAT WE’RE SEEING.>>Sreenivasan: ANY SORT OF MEMBERSHIP INTO ANY ORGANIZATIONS? NOWADAYS… NOW EVERYBODY’S KIND OF INTERESTED IN MESSAGEBOARD POSTINGS. WAS THERE ANYTHING LIKE THAT BEFORE THIS SHOOTER LIKE THE ONE IN EL PASO WHO DECIDED TO… PERHAPS LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIALS ARE STILL CONNECTING THE DOTS THERE?>>AGAIN, I WISH WE KNEW. WE HAVE NOT FOUND ANYTHING TO THAT EFFECT. THERE ARE SOME REPORTS OF SOME FAMILY DYNAMIC PROBLEMS THAT DO GO BACK MANY YEARS, AND, SO, THAT IS ACTUALLY PART OF OUR MOST FOCUS RIGHT NOW.>>Sreenivasan: AND WHAT ABOUT THAT DISTRICT NOW? ARE PEOPLE BACK THERE? ARE BUSINESSES OPEN? HAVE THEY JUST STAYED CLOSED THROUGH THE WEEKEND? IS IT STILL AN ACTIVE CRIME SCENE?>>IT IS STILL ACTIVE CRIME SCENE THROUGH THE AFTERNOON. THERE IS AN EVENING VIGIL THAT IS PLANNED RIGHT ON THE STREET ITSELF, AFTER WHICH POINT THE STREET WILL BE OPENED UP, THE CRIME TAPE WILL BE TAKEN UP. THE BARS AND RESTAURANTS IN THAT AREA, SOME ARE OPEN THIS AFTERNOON, THE ONES THAT ARE A BLOCK OR TWO AWAY AWAY FROM THE SCENE.>>Sreenivasan: EDITOR OF THE “DAYTON DAILY NEWS” JIM BEBBINGTON JOINING US LIVE VIA SKYPE FROM DAYTON, THANKS SO MUCH.>>THANK YOU.>>Sreenivasan: THE FIRST OF THIS WEEKEND’S ATTACKS BEGAN YESTERDAY JUST BEFORE 11:00 A.M. IN EL PASO. TODAY THE SUSPECT IN THAT MASS KILLING IS IN JAIL AND AUTHORITIES SAY HE IS ANSWERING THEIR QUESTIONS. MEGAN THOMPSON HAS THE LATEST ON THE VICTIMS AND WHAT HAPPENED AT A BUSY SHOPPING CENTER AND WALMART IN THE TEXAS BORDER CITY.>>Reporter: IN EL PASO, TEXAS, TODAY, THE INVESTIGATION CONTINUED INTO YESTERDAY’S MASS SHOOTING. THERE, A GUNMAN OPENED FIRE JUST AFTER 10:30 A.M. LOCAL TIME IN A BUSY COMMERCIAL AREA FILLED WITH SATURDAY-MORNING SHOPPERS. 20 PEOPLE WERE KILLED AND AT LEAST 26 WERE WOUNDED. TODAY F.B.I. AGENTS CHECKED CARS IN THE PARKING LOT OUTSIDE THE WALMART WHERE THE MASSACRE TOOK PLACE. AND PEOPLE PLACED FLOWERS ON THE ROAD NEARBY IN MEMORY OF THE VICTIMS. LAW ENFORCEMENT SEARCHED A HOME ASSOCIATED WITH THE SUSPECTED SHOOTER IN ALLEN, TEXAS, A SUBURB OF DALLAS ABOUT 650 MILES FROM EL PASO. THE SUSPECT WAS APPREHENDED YESTERDAY NEAR THE SCENE. JOHN BASH, U.S. ATTORNEY FOR THE WESTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS, SAID THAT FEDERAL OFFICIALS ARE TREATING THE EL PASO SHOOTING AS A CASE OF DOMESTIC TERRORISM.>>AND WE’RE GOING TO DO WHAT WE DO TO TERRORISTS IN THIS COUNTRY, WHICH IS TO DELIVER SWIFT AND CERTAIN JUSTICE.>>Reporter: MEANWHILE, STATE OFFICIALS IN TEXAS ANNOUNCED THEY WILL FILE CAPITAL MURDER CHARGES AGAINST THE SUSPECT.>>I CAN TELL YOU FROM THE OUTSET, THE STATE CHARGE IS CAPITAL MURDER, SO HE IS ELIGIBLE FOR THE DEATH PENALTY. WE WILL SEEK THE DEATH PENALTY.>>Reporter: OFFICIALS ARE TRYING TO DETERMINE IF AN ANTI- IMMIGRANT MANIFESTO POSTED ON AN EXTREMIST WEBSITE MINUTES BEFORE THE SHOOTING STARTED WAS WRITTEN BY THE ALLEGED SHOOTER, A 21-YEAR-OLD WHITE MAN. THE POSTING SPOKE OF A “HISPANIC INVASION” OF THE U.S., AND EXPRESSED SUPPORT FOR THE GUNMAN IN CHRISTCHURCH, NEW ZEALAND, WHO KILLED 51 PEOPLE IN MARCH. EL PASO SITS RIGHT ON THE U.S. BORDER WITH MEXICO. A MAJORITY OF ITS NEARLY 700,000 RESIDENTS ARE HISPANIC AND THE CITY HAS SEEN AN INFLUX OF MIGRANTS FROM CENTRAL AMERICA IN RECENT MONTHS. SEVERAL MEXICAN CITIZENS ARE BELIEVED TO BE AMONG THE DEAD AND WOUNDED. LAST NIGHT, A VIGIL WAS HELD IN CIUDAD JUAREZ, JUST ACROSS THE BORDER FROM EL PASO.>>Sreenivasan: FOR MORE ON THE TEXAS MASS KILLING AND THE COMMUNITY’S RESPONSE TODAY, “TEXAS TRIBUNE” REPORTER JULIAN AGUILAR JOINS US NOW VIA SKYPE FROM EL PASO. WHAT’S THE LATEST WE HAVE ON THE INVESTIGATION?>>WELL, EARLIER THIS MORNING, THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY’S OFFICE HERE IN EL PASO COUNTY CONFIRMED THAT THEY WILL SEEK CAPITAL MURDER CHARGES AND THE DEATH PENALTY. AND THAT’S GOING TO GO ON CONCURRENTLY WITH A FEDERAL INVESTIGATION INTO POSSIBLE DOMESTIC TERRORISM AND HATE CRIME CHARGES. YOU HAVE THE U.S. ATTORNEY FOR THE WESTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS, AS WELL AS THE SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE OF THE EL PASO OFFICE BOTH CONFIRMING THE FACT THAT THEY’RE INVESTIGATING POTENTIAL LEADS TO SEE IF THERE ARE ANY FEDERAL GUN CHARGES THAT COULD BE BROUGHT AS WELL, WHICH ALSO CARRIES A PENALTY OF DEATH FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND. SO THESE ARE CONCURRENT INVESTIGATIONS SO I MEAN, STATE OR FEDERAL LEVEL, THEY’RE LOOKING TO THROW THE BOOK AT THIS GUY WHENEVER THEY CAN.>>Sreenivasan: YEAH, SO HAVE THEY CONNECTED THE ONLINE POSTINGS TO THIS INDIVIDUAL?>>THEY’RE VERY CAREFUL IN THEIR WORDING. THEY SAY THAT THEY HAVE A MANIFESTO. THEY’RE REVIEWING IT. THEY JUST NEED TO CONFIRM THAT HE IS, IN FACT, THE AUTHOR OR THE PERSON THAT PUBLISHED THIS. THERE’S BEEN SEVERAL REPORTS CONFIRMING THIS, BUT THE F.B.I. AND THE U.S. ATTORNEY, THEY’RE LEANING TOWARDS THAT BUT THEY’RE STILL VERY, VERY CAREFUL IN THEIR WORDING. THEY DON’T WANT TO JEOPARDIZE THE INVESTIGATION. EL PASO POLICE DEPARTMENT CHIEF GREG ALLEN SAID, “LOOK, YOU KNOW, AS MUCH AS WHAT’S GOING ON RIGHT NOW, AND PEOPLE ARE SO UPSET AND ENRAGED, THE ALLEGED SHOOTER STILL HAS A RIGHT TO A FAIR TRIAL.” SO I THINK THEY’RE BEING VERY CAREFUL IN THEIR WORDING SO AS NOT JEOPARDIZE ANYTHING IN THE INVESTIGATION, ACCORDING TO THEM.>>Sreenivasan: OKAY, AND WHAT ABOUT THE COMMUNITY RIGHT NOW? I MEAN, WHAT ABOUT THE VICTIMS? IS THERE ANY MORE INFORMATION ON WHO SUFFERED THROUGH THIS?>>WE HAD REPORTS THAT I THINK EVERYBODY ELSE HAS. THERE ARE 20 CONFIRMED FATALITIES, WHICH IS WHAT THE GOVERNOR CONFIRMED YESTERDAY, MORE THAN TWO DOZEN INJURED. BUT WHAT THE EL PASO POLICE DEPARTMENT SAID ON SATURDAY IS THAT THEY STILL WERE UNABLE TO ACCOUNT FOR MAYBE PEOPLE THAT ACTUALLY DROVE THEMSELVES TO THE HOSPITAL, SO THAT COULD ADD TO THE LIST OF THE PEOPLE THAT ARE WOUNDED. AND OF THE 13 THAT WERE TAKEN TO ONE HOSPITAL ON SATURDAY, ONE SUCCUMBED TO HIS OR HER INJURIES. THERE’S ALSO REPORTS FROM THE MEXICAN FEDERAL AUTHORITIES, INCLUDING THE PRESIDENT, LOPEZ OBRADOR, THAT THERE ARE A NUMBER OF MEXICAN NATIONALS THAT WERE ALSO KILLED IN YESTERDAY’S ATTACK. SO IT’S, YOU KNOW, THERE’S A LOT OF HURDLES TO GO THROUGH WITH RESPECT TO CONSULATES AND INTERNATIONAL POLICIES AND LEGALESE TO CONFIRM THE AMOUNT, BUT THAT’S ALSO SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE ARE INVESTIGATING. BUT WITH RESPECT TO THE COMMUNITY, PEOPLE ARE LINING UP TO DONATE BLOOD. THEY’RE TAKING DONATIONS, THEY ARE STANDING STRONG. BUT IT’S DEFINITELY A COMMUNITY THAT’S REELING, AS ARE PEOPLE IN DAYTON, OHIO, AS ARE PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, WHERE THIS HAPPENS SEEMS LIKE EVERY MONTH NOW.>>Sreenivasan: YEAH, IS THERE… YESTERDAY I HEARD REPORTS THAT THERE WERE SOME PEOPLE WHO WERE RELUCTANT TO GO TO THE HOSPITAL, EITHER FOR THEMSELVES OR TO VISIT THEIR RELATIVES BECAUSE THEY WERE CONCERNED ABOUT IMMIGRATION RAIDS.>>WELL, FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT SAID THAT THAT THEY’RE NOT GOING TO DO ENFORCEMENT ACTIONS DURING THIS TIME, WHICH IS WHAT WE SEE DURING HURRICANES OR OTHER DISASTERS THAT AFFECT A LOT OF PEOPLE. WE SEE THIS ALL THE TIME IN TEXAS, ESPECIALLY AFTER THE STATE PASSED SENATE BILL FOUR, WHICH IS A CRACKDOWN ON ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, OR UNAUTHORIZED IMMIGRATION. IT DOESN’T NECESSARILY HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE TRAGEDY. I MEAN, WE’VE HAD PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN ON THE BOOKS SAYING THAT THEY’RE SCARED TO GO TO THE DOCTOR’S OFFICE OR THE HOSPITAL FOR THE LAST TWO YEARS. SO IN A SITUATION LIKE THIS, IT’S HELPFUL, IT’S REASSURING THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS ON THE TABLE SAYING, LOOK, WE’RE NOT GOING TO CRACK DOWN ON ANY ENFORCEMENT MEASURES RIGHT NOW. WE WANT EVERYBODY TO BE SAFE.” BUT WHETHER THAT TRICKLES DOWN TO THE PEOPLE THAT COULD BE AFFECTED, UM, YOU KNOW, I CAN’T SPEAK FOR EVERYBODY, BUT I’M SURE THERE’S STILL THAT FEAR FACTOR, EVEN IN SITUATIONS LIKE THIS.>>Sreenivasan: ALL RIGHT, JULIAN AGUILAR JOINING US VIA SKYPE FROM EL PASO. THANKS SO MUCH.>>THANK YOU.>>Sreenivasan: FOR THE LATEST DEVELOPMENTS ON THIS WEEKEND’S MASS SHOOTINGS VISIT pbs.org/newshour THE SHOOTERS BEHIND THESE EVENTS OFTEN LEAVE SO-CALLED “MANIFESTOS”– HATE-FILLED ONLINE POSTINGS THEY WANT THE PUBLIC AND AUTHORITIES TO FIND. WE’VE SEEN IT AFTER THE SHOOTING IN CHRISTCHURCH, THE SYNAGOGUE SHOOTINGS IN PITTSBURGH, PENNSYLVANIA, AND POWAY, CALIFORNIA, AND EVEN YESTERDAY IN EL PASO, TEXAS. THEY APPEAR ON WELL-KNOWN FORUMS AND SPREAD RAPIDLY IN THE AFTERMATH OF THE MURDERS. “NEW YORK TIMES” OPINION WRITER AT LARGE CHARLIE WARZEL COVERS INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY, AND HE JOINS US NOW VIA SKYPE FROM MISSOULA, MONTANA. IS THIS KIND OF THE NEW THING THAT THEY HAVE TO DO TO HAVE LEGITIMACY IN THE COMMUNITIES THAT THEY SPRING FROM?>>WELL, IT CERTAINLY SEEMS THAT, THAT SINCE CHRISTCHURCH, THERE’S BEEN A NOTICEABLE UPTICK IN THIS COMMUNITY. ESPECIALLY IN 8CHAN. IT IS A GROUP OF WHITE NATIONALISTS. OBVIOUSLY WHAT WE’VE SEEN IS THAT THERE ARE A NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO ARE VERY VULNERABLE TO ALL OF THIS GOADING AND, UH, PERSUASION AND CONSTANT TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, VIOLENT EXTREMISM. AND IT SEEMS LIKE IT’S JUMPING OFF OF THE INTERNET AND AND INTO REAL LIFE WITH GREATER FREQUENCY.>>Sreenivasan: SO HOW IS THAT RADICALIZATION HAPPENING IN THESE FORUMS?>>IT’S VERY DIFFICULT TO GET ANY SENSE OF WHAT THESE COMMUNITIES ARE. BUT, REALLY, IN THE PAST TWO YEARS, THERE’S JUST BEEN A DIALING UP OF THE RHETORIC. THIS IS SORT OF ALONGSIDE, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE’RE SEEING IN THE COUNTRY WITH IMMIGRATION DEBATE, WHAT WE’RE SEEING WITH DONALD TRUMP’S RACIST COMMENTS. THE REAL MOMENT THAT SORT OF SEEMED TO CHANGE THINGS IN THESE FORUMS WAS THE CHRISTCHURCH SHOOTING BACK IN MARCH. AND AFTER THAT, I WENT TO 8CHAN ON A RANDOM DAY IN MAY THIS YEAR, AND THE FIRST THING THAT I SAW AT THE TOP WAS A DETAILED POST FROM AN ANONYMOUS USER ABOUT THE BEST WAYS TO STAGE A MASS SHOOTING– THE WAYS TO GO FOR, YOU KNOW, THE MAXIMUM AMOUNT OF KILLS, THE MAXIMUM AMOUNT OF KILLS OF PEOPLE OF A SPECIFIC IDEOLOGY. IT WAS A, A POST THAT WAS ESSENTIALLY A HANDBOOK FOR TERRORISM. WHAT IS MOST CONCERNING ABOUT THESE, THESE THREE SHOOTINGS– CHRISTCHURCH, POWAY, AND EL PASO NOW, BEING CONNECTED TO THIS MESSAGE BOARD, 8CHAN, IS THE, IS THE NOTION THAT THERE… THIS COMMUNITY IS GAMIFYING TERRORISM AND VIOLENCE. THEY ARE TRYING…>>Sreenivasan: EXPLAIN THAT. SO WHAT DOES IT MEAN THAT THERE’S A GAMIFICATION GOING ON ON THESE BOARDS?>>SO IN THESE COMMUNITIES, AFTER CHRISTCHURCH, THERE WAS A, UH, THERE WAS A, UM, A WHOLE BUNCH OF OUTPOURING OF PEOPLE SAYING YOU… THIS SHOOTER GOT A HIGH NUMBER OF KILLS. BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING LIKE, LIKE, LIKE IN A VIDEO GAME. THAT THEY GOT A HIGH SCORE. IN 8CHAN, PEOPLE STARTED REFERRING TO THIS AS THE HIGH SCORE. WHO CAN TOP THE HIGH SCORE? UM, AND SO NOW, WHEN THESE ACTS OF VIOLENCE HAPPENED, PEOPLE ON THESE MESSAGE BOARDS ARE ESSENTIALLY JUST WAITING TO SEE WHETHER OR NOT THEY’VE BEATEN THE LAST ACT OF TERRORISM. WHETHER OR NOT THEY’VE GOTTEN HIGH SCORE. AND THERE’S, YOU KNOW, THERE’S GLORIFYING THOSE WHO DO. THERE’S CHASTISING THOSE WHO DON’T, YOU KNOW, CALLING THEM LOSERS. IT’S REALLY AND TRULY BECOME THIS, UH, THIS… THERE’S NO OTHER WAY TO SAY IT, THIS GAMIFICATION. THERE IS THIS NOTION THAT, UH, THAT YOU CAN, YOU CAN GO OUT AND, AND BASICALLY PLAY TO WIN IN SOME GRIM, SICK GAME.>>Sreenivasan: THERE ARE COMPANIES THAT HOST THESE FORUMS, THAT THEY MAKE MONEY OFF OF THESE FORUMS. WHY DOES THE MARKETPLACE NOT CORRECT FOR THAT? IS THERE NO WAY TO DISINCENTIVIZE THE CREATION OF SPACES WHERE THIS KIND OF HATE CAN FESTER?>>THIS IS REALLY DIFFICULT BECAUSE I THINK THERE’S A THERE’S A, A, A REAL MORAL QUESTION THESE COMPANIES NEED TO WEIGH. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, THESE COMMUNITIES ARE VERY RESILIENT. THEY HAVE BEEN KICKED OFF OF… 8CHAN WAS REALLY POPULARIZED BY ANOTHER WEBSITE, 4CHAN, MODERATING SOME OF THE WORST BEHAVIOR OFF THAT PLATFORM. THEY THEN WENT TO 8CHAN. IT’S A VERY DIFFICULT PROBLEM. AND OF COURSE YOU HAVE, YOU HAVE SPEECH ISSUES, BUT I THINK, I THINK WE NEED TO HAVE A VERY BROAD CONVERSATION THAT INCLUDES THE GOVERNMENT, THAT INCLUDES LAW ENFORCEMENT ABOUT WHAT TO DO WITH THE COMMUNITY THAT IS ESSENTIALLY, AND TECHNOLOGY COMPANIES, THAT IS ESSENTIALLY A INCUBATOR FOR TERRORISM. AND AS, UH, AS ONE OF MY PEERS AT NBC SAID, THIS WEBSITE HAS A BODY COUNT ASSOCIATED WITH IT, AND I THINK WE REALLY NEED TO RECKON WITH THAT AND TREAT IT AS AN EMERGENCY.>>Sreenivasan: ALL RIGHT. CHARLIE WARZEL OF THE “NEW YORK TIMES,” JOINING US VIA SKYPE FROM MISSOULA, MONTANA, TODAY THANKS SO MUCH.>>THANKS A LOT.>>Sreenivasan: WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT THE KILLERS IN SEVERAL RECENT MASS SHOOTINGS IN AMERICA IS THAT MANY SHARE A WHITE SUPREMACIST IDEOLOGY. JOAN DONOVAN STUDIES THIS HATE- FILLED COMMUNITY AND HAS WRITTEN A GUIDE FOR JOURNALISTS WHO COVER IT. SHE’S THE DIRECTOR OF THE TECHNOLOGY AND SOCIAL CHANGE RESEARCH PROJECT AT HARVARD UNIVERSITY’S KENNEDY SHORENSTEIN CENTER, AND SHE JOINS US NOW FROM WEST NEWTON, MASSACHUSETTS. RACISM, WHITE SUPREMACY HAS EXISTED ALMOST AS LONG AS THIS ENTIRE COUNTRY HAS. SO WHAT’S DIFFERENT ABOUT IT NOW?>>ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE TRY TO STUDY WHEN WE LOOK AT THESE GROUPS IS THE WAY IN WHICH THEY COMMUNICATE BOTH INTERNALLY AND THEN TO THE PUBLIC. AND, OBVIOUSLY, WITH INTERNET TECHNOLOGIES, THERE’S BEEN A LOT MORE OPPORTUNITY FOR WHITE SUPREMACISTS TO DIRECTLY REACH THE PUBLIC WITH THEIR MESSAGING. AND SO RIGHT NOW WHAT WE’RE UP AGAINST ISN’T JUST THAT REPORTERS NEED TO BE MORE CAREFUL ABOUT HOW THEY REPORT ON THESE, UM, WHITE SUPREMACIST VIOLENT EVENTS, BUT ALSO WE HAVE TO START TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION HOW THE PLATFORMS AND SOCIAL MEDIA ARE CIRCULATING THE MESSAGES OF THESE WHITE SUPREMACISTS AS A RATIONALE FOR THE ATTACKS.>>Sreenivasan: ARE THESE PEOPLE TRYING TO FRAME THEIR OWN NARRATIVES BY THROWING THE WORDS IN THERE THAT JOURNALISTS END UP USING?>>YES, AND IT’S DONE INTENTIONALLY. THIS IS A BIT OF AN ARTIFACT OF WHAT WE MIGHT CALL MEMETIC CULTURE ONLINE, RIGHT? THE IDEA THAT MEMES CARRY THE TALE. AND SO VIRAL SLOGANS, PIECES OF, YOU KNOW, MAYBE SUBCULTURAL LANGUAGE. EVEN DEFINING THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A WHITE SUPREMACISTS AND A WHITE NATIONALIST– THESE ARE THE KINDS OF MESSAGES THAT PEOPLE WHO COMMIT THESE ATTACKS ARE TRYING TO SPREAD INTO THE PUBLIC. AND SO WHEN THEY MAKE REFERENCE TO CERTAIN BOOKS LIKE WE SAW IN THE GILROY CASE, THAT IS AN ATTEMPT TO GET JOURNALISTS TO GO DEEPER AND TO REALLY DO THE WORK OF CONTEXTUALIZING THE THEORIES AND SPREADING THEM.>>Sreenivasan: IS THERE ANYTHING THAT WE CAN DO AS PART OF THE PRESS IN THE FIRST 24 HOURS, 48 HOURS, TO TRY TO MINIMIZE THE HARM WHILE STILL REPORTING THE STORY?>>YEAH, I THINK IT’S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT JOURNALISTS DO COVER THESE STORIES. YOU HAVE COMMUNITIES OF PEOPLE THAT ARE WONDERING IF THERE’S OTHER, UH, YOU KNOW, CAUSES OF THE VIOLENCE. THEY’RE WONDERING IF THERE ARE OTHER PERPETRATORS. THEY’RE LOOKING FOR INSTRUCTIONS IF THEY SHOULD STAY HOME. YOU KNOW, THESE, THESE THINGS ARE REALLY IMPORTANT THAT JOURNALISTS REPORT ON. BUT IF YOU DON’T KNOW A CERTAIN SET OF WORDS OR A SET OF KEY WORDS, OR IF YOU FIND YOURSELF AS A JOURNALIST STARTING TO CHASE LITTLE PIECES OF INFORMATION THROUGH WHAT WE MIGHT CALL THE RABBIT HOLES OF THE INTERNET, BE COGNIZANT THAT THIS IS PROBABLY NOT THE LEAD. THIS IS PROBABLY NOT THE STORY THAT THE AUDIENCE NEEDS TO HEAR RIGHT AWAY. BUT IT MIGHT BE SOMETHING THAT YOU PUT IN A PIPELINE FOR A FEW WEEKS DOWN THE ROAD, WHERE YOU COULD THEN HAVE A MUCH MORE LONG FORM AND IMPACTFUL CONVERSATION ABOUT THAT.>>Sreenivasan: YOU KNOW, YOU POINTED OUT THAT THE TERMS THAT ARE NOW IN OUR LEXICON– ALT- RIGHT, OR ALTERNATIVE-RIGHT, WHITE NATIONALIST. HOW ARE ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT THAN OLD FASHIONED IDEA OF WHITE SUPREMACISTS OR RACIST?>>YEAH, THERE’S BEEN A FEW DIFFERENT TIMES IN THE HISTORY OF WHITE SUPREMACISTS, ESPECIALLY IF YOU STUDY THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE K.K.K. AND JOURNALISTS, WHERE WHITE SUPREMACISTS REALIZE THAT THE JOURNALISTS WERE PEOPLE THEY NEEDED TO CULTIVATE. AND PART OF THAT WAS CONTINUALLY REBRANDING HOW THEIR MOVEMENT SAW THEMSELVES. IN THE LATE ’60s, THEY WERE CALLING THEMSELVES THE AMERICAN NAZI MOVEMENT. THEN THEY SWITCHED TO TALKING ABOUT A WHITE POWER MOVEMENT. AS WE’VE UNCOVERED WHAT THESE NEW TERMS REALLY MEAN, THEY SHED THEM AND THEY MOVE ON TO THE NEXT SET OF TERMINOLOGIES SO THAT THEY CAN STAY IN THE PUBLIC EYE AND CONTINUE TO SHAPE THE WAY IN WHICH WE TALK ABOUT SPECIFIC RACIALIZED ISSUES.>>Sreenivasan: FINALLY, THEN, WITH THE IDEOLOGY OF WHITE SUPREMACY, MATCH THOSE CRITERIA THAT THE GOVERNMENT HOLDS UP TO BE TERRORISM.>>WELL, IT’S… THERE’S A… SEVERAL COMPLICATED LAWS AROUND WHEN WE WOULD OR IF WE SHOULD LABEL THINGS DOMESTIC TERRORISM. BUT I DO THINK THAT THE DEFINITION OF TERRORISM THAT THAT WE FOLLOW HAS TO DO WITH IF IT’S MEANT TO CAUSE PUBLIC TERROR, RIGHT? IF, IF THE EVENT IS MEANT TO CAUSE CHAOS AND, OF COURSE, IN THESE SITUATIONS WHERE YOU HAVE SHOOTINGS THAT ARE BEING CARRIED OUT AGAINST TARGETED GROUPS, MINORITIZED GROUPS, BUT THAT THE KILLING IS INDISCRIMINATE IN THE SENSE THAT IT DOESN’T TARGET AN INDIVIDUAL, THEN I THINK THAT THESE ARE TERRORIST EVENTS.>>Sreenivasan: ALL RIGHT. JOAN DONOVAN FROM HARVARD’S KENNEDY SHORENSTEIN CENTER, THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US TODAY.>>THANK YOU.>>Sreenivasan: FINALLY TONIGHT, THE MASS KILLINGS IN EL PASO AND DAYTON WERE NOT THE ONLY SHOOTINGS IN THE U.S. YESTERDAY. GUNFIRE IN CHICAGO WOUNDED SEVEN PEOPLE STANDING IN A PARK AROUND 1:00 A.M. TODAY. IN A SECOND SHOOTING IN THAT CITY AROUND 3:30 A.M., FOUR OTHERS WERE WOUNDED AND ONE MAN DIED. UPDATING THE NEWS FROM DAYTON, OHIO, WHERE NINE PEOPLE WERE KILLED AND 26 OTHERS WOUNDED IN A SHOOTING THAT LASTED LESS THAN ONE MINUTE, AT 4:00 P.M. EASTERN TIME TODAY, DAYTON OFFICIALS RELEASED NEW DETAILS ABOUT THE SHOOTER WHO WAS KILLED BY POLICE, AND SAID THAT WHILE THEY STILL HAVE NOT DETERMINED A MOTIVE FOR THE KILLINGS, THEY DO NOT HAVE EVIDENCE THAT IT WAS A “BIAS CRIME.” AT THE NEWS CONFERENCE, THE POLICE CHIEF ALSO RELEASED 9-1-1 CALLS AND VIDEO FROM THE SHOOTING. (GUNFIRE)>>Sreenivasan: WE WILL HAVE MORE UPDATES ON OUR WEBSITE, www.pbs.org/newshour AND TOMORROW ON THE “NEWSHOUR.” THAT’S ALL FOR THIS EDITION OF “PBS NEWSHOUR WEEKEND.” I’M HARI SREENIVASAN. THANKS FOR WATCHING. HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.

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