Narcissists and Financial Abuse, Part 1

Narcissists and Financial Abuse, Part 1

well I'm really pleased to have a special guest with us here today have Shannon Thomas and Shannon someone I've known for some time and she's a therapist and a best-selling author in fact we're gonna give you some links to a couple of her books in just a minute but she's got a new book it's called exposing financial abuse and we're gonna be talking about that and how it relates to the narcissists relationships so first of all Jenny and welcome glad to have you here and my first question is what prompted you to write this book about financial abuse we don't have a lot of books about this topic no we don't first let's want to say thank you so much for being what I consider a great mentor and thank you so much for what you've done in this field I mean you were writing about this field like a decade and a half ago and even longer before anybody else really was and so thank you so much for really pioneering sort of this this genre for us good so one of the reasons I wrote exposing financial abuse is because like you said there really isn't a lot out there and I know you have clients I've had clients that have had this experience where their finances were deeply impacted by a narcissist and there really isn't a lot out there that talks about what exactly does that look like you know we can hear the stories and we know but being able to expose it and being able to really pull the veil back was why I wanted to write the book and so the book is full of survivor stories that tell in their own words what it's like to be impacted by a narcissist in their financial situation so let's remind ourselves the some of the defining features of narcissism narcissism high control low empathy but then that exploitive manipulative behavior and that's where there are all sorts of ways they can do it and so you're suggesting that the checkbooks so to speak is is one huge way that they can maintain control and exploitation and manipulation so we're going to be getting into that now before we go into this I do want to remind you that we do have some resources available for you right below the video you're gonna see some links to Shannon's books and I'm going to give both of our books out one is exposing financial abuse and another it's been out a little bit longer and by the way she's a best seller and this is one of the ones that put her on that list it's called healing from hidden abuse mm-hmm and and I think you'll find those books to be very helpful in your library and then we also have a link to my latest book when pleasing you is killing me and then also we are going to have lar Carranza's book abusive ugly love and it's it'll be there for you all to enjoy and appreciate as well and if you would you can subscribe to our car channel and then we'll be able to give you some notices each time a new video comes up so Shannon let's get to this part about financial abuse in your in your book you talked about how there's a pervasive sense of dishonesty with people who operate in this manner what do you mean by that yeah I think that you know it's sort of like laying the groundwork for the financial abuse or the lies everything is exploitive and it may be you know our stereotype is that financial abuse is going to be someone who controls all the money in an overt way but sometimes financial abuse really happens in a very passive aggressive way so the lies are told I mean we've had a lot of survivor stories about Lies being told in the family court system we've had a lot of survivor stories where they were not told exactly what was happening within the family financial situation they were told that they they didn't have money when they actually did have a lot of resources and so the lies and the deception really laid the foundation for the survivor to not know what's happening in the finances or to not know really how the abuser is manipulating behind the scenes because not all financial abuse is the overt control some of it is the passive-aggressive control where a person isn't staying employed where the person is hiding money but the lies and the deception is really the foundation for it all so that the abuser can get what they want on the situation in your book you do such a good job of bringing in real-life situations and examples what would be an example of what you're referring to here yeah you know I think that in the book we have we shared that you know she wanted on her honeymoon the one thing she wanted was to be able to stay in a bed-and-breakfast and asked and asked that okay we're not asking for you know and very extravagant honeymoon something that was really within their budget and she kept asking for it and the abuser was manipulating and saying sure we can do that and then it never ended up happening and what ended up happening is the money that would have been used for the one night in the bed-and-breakfast was used to buy computers for his business forget to throw in that detail yeah exactly and it was the game that was being played it was the sure we can go do that sure we can go ahead and you know have the one night in the bed-and-breakfast but it never ended up happening by a very passive way of we'll make that reservation later we'll get to that later on it oh can't we just stay with my family instead of staying in so just kicking the can down the road and not talking about it and shifty and yeah and then there's the old saying you're you're only as healthy as your secrets allow you to be and how many people particularly of a narcissistic persuasion keep secrets regarding their use of money or investments or who they're hanging with and what they'll tell you they're spending on something and it may be something entirely different their extravagant or whatever no accountability no not at all and I think that's the real goal is to be able to like you said shifty just sort of moving it around having things be what they want it commits the narcissistic person it's all about them and so money is just another extension it's about time is very similar to how do they want to spend time well money is a piece that controls everything it controls access to resources as far as food clothing shelter transportation it is it is the foundation of really intense control okay now taking it to another level you mentioned also in the book how these financial abusers can then eventually reveal a very threatening style of communication what's that about yeah the threats are sometimes the subtle threats which you you hear it and you know what it's there and you can feel it but it was very kind of subtle a lot of times there will be threats in regards to children if somebody is to leave if they they would make a common and abuser to make a comment like well you might not be able to afford to take care of the kids I would probably have to take full custody and so in the book there's a lot of survivor stories about how their ability to continue parenting their children were threatened by the abuser in sometimes very overt and sometimes in more of an underhanded dig and anyone who's had contact with a narcissist knows about the underhanded digs there's kind of a how dare you question me or tell me what to do and then they'll come back with I'll show you whether they say those words or not that's the in tality what I said and maybe they didn't say the exact words but they meant it so sometimes threats are overt sometimes threats or covert and I think that's the there's a wide spectrum to the financial abuse because most people don't realize that some of the stories in the book would be considered financially abusive a lot of that when it comes to being underemployed or making those threats about taking children or not being able to take care of basic needs type things so when you're the person on the receiving end of this financial abuse what does that do to that person's psyche sure it's a great question you know it really it chips away at our personhood just like all narcissistic abuse does they want to take control over the narrative of how the survivor sees themselves how the survivor behaves in the world their confidence levels so when someone's controlling and overtly or covertly trying to dominate the survivor is going to doubt themselves they're going to doubt their stability they're gonna doubt well I be able to even take care of myself take care of my children take care of my basic needs and then even beyond basic needs and if we don't feel like we can take care of ourselves we're not going anywhere a popularized word in as we talk about narcissism is the word gaslighting as you were saying all of that's like oh that's classic gaslighting is making you question your truth yes and then in fact one of the things that I talked with people about when I work with folks who are on the receiving end of the narcissistic abuse is you have to go back to your basics and I know that's another thing that you have in your book let's talk about that what do you mean by that basic needs what we did what I did is I wanted to outline what are the stages and how does this form of abuse really come to play in a survivor's life and first are the lies just laying the foundation of lies then it's the threats then its basic needs are very much impacted by financial abuse we had people in the book that couldn't buy basic monthly needs as far as food and clothing we had situations where in a high socioeconomic area kids did not have the right size shoes to wear to their private schools we had others where you know basic needs of taking care of their pets was threatened things like an emotional support animal it really gets down to very scary times because we're not in a culture we have very many safety nets that are actually livable so if someone can control the financial output and input of a survivor they have controlled everything down to do they have gas in their car yeah and there's a wide spectrum to the income levels that are impacted by financial abuse it is everything from there were stories about you know not having hot water and not having heat in the winter and having to leave and go out literally in the snow to go to the food bank all the way to a high-end socio-economic abuse environment where you know there was millions of dollars in the bank but this family did not have that money at all because all of it was being funneled through the abuser and the abuser chose what was purchased right some take control over everything if you don't have a cell phone because the abuser is not allowing you to have a cell phone you are living in a very isolated world and then another thing that you talked about in the book is this can actually get to the point of criminal and I know I've spoken with many people let's say they they find out that taxes haven't been filed for a number of years or there's something really shady in the way that the money is being managed so what kind of criminal activities that you do you sometimes see when you have this kind of abuser sure a lot of it is fraud people taking out a credit card or lines of credit in other people's names like you mentioned the taxes there are we have a story in the book where a survivors spouse file the taxes had the return the tax money go back into an account that the survivor was not on so the abuser got all of the tax return well lo and behold those taxes were not done ethically so the IRS always catches that and they wanted their money back and the survivor who never got any of the refund had to pay half of the money back I had a case once where a man was he was in a sales kind of position and he would some hair another get kickbacks from people that he was working with and the IRS sniffed that out well he took his business into bankruptcy but the IRS is thinking well we still want our money so guess what happened they began garnishing wages from the wife's paycheck and that and she was just so frustrated like I didn't know what this stuff was happening and she's the one that's left I'm not holding the bag so it can be a very frustrating and very futile situation it really can and it goes both genders we've had stories in the book is very gender neutral where there are women who are the financial abusers women that went and had you know medical procedures to make themselves feel better and put the husband as the creditor or the creditor for the line of credit in his name left the relationship and he was left holding the bag for all of this plastic surgery and so it goes back and we have lots of different stories of different survivors but the but the crimes are very very scary because we had a CPA in the book that she didn't get into her husband's business books because she knew on some level towards the end of the relationship that things were not the way they needed to be that could have impacted her in a licensing level right so it has and I think a lot of people don't realize that who we marry or who we partner with as a business partner has deep impacts of our are like ethical and offer for licensed and also our legal responsibilities our name goes on things and in according to certain laws we are one okay now we're gonna we're gonna wrap this one for today because you have so much information I want you to come back for another interview okay we're gonna do that now I'm pulling a quote from your book you mentioned that the financial abuser is someone whose internal compass is defective and so I guess we can wrap up by saying that since that person's confidence is defective then if you're the one that's on the receiving end of it you need to get your TrueNorth established and so that would be a good thing for us to leave with here today right yes absolutely we have to figure out where where are we going and how do we get out of this situation that we have not voluntarily been put in but we have found ourselves in Shannon Thomas thank you so much the book is exposing financial abuse and we're gonna have Shannon back for some more comments thank you so much Shannon thank you

33 thoughts on “Narcissists and Financial Abuse, Part 1

  1. Stay at home mom need. How am I to afford the kids or myself? And sadly many judges do not care or see it as so. So fear and horror stories of custody of kids is given to them. Id hope more judges are forced to learn more of this as well as law enforcement and all therapists and the like. See how it all goes! May my heavenly father be with me! And all who experience such.

  2. My narcissistic ex was a leech. He always had an excuse, that apparently made sense, for spending lots of money. At a certain point, he left his job to live only with his small pension but, basically, he was living off me. Now I understand I decided to ignore the problem, because I was trapped in his web of manipulation.

  3. Jezebel Estela is manipulating my daughter for financial favors. My daughter is unaware that she is being manipulated!

    The Narc knows that my daughter is a very generous person ( her new SUPPLY)

  4. My ex narc said God made him leader of the family and he demanded unquestioned power over my paycheck while refusing to put more than $200/month. He watched YouTube rather than work. I finally had enough. He worked me to burnout.

  5. Some whole communities are abusive! Everyone needs money to live their own fucking lives THEIR WAY not just NARCS and PSYCHOs WAY!

  6. You can't do anything around a Narcissist cluster B or psychopath! You can't live your life happily forget it! 🙄😡

  7. Yep the narcs in my family keep hiding their money from everyone else in the family! Including inheritance money from passed on relatives!

  8. Had been storing some silver coins in my son's safe for "safe keeping" from burglars, etc…not knowing he and his wife were narcs. Big mistake. Gone. Yeah…I am on Soc Sec…they both have jobs. No "sorry's"…no apologies…no thought for my future. Narcs are heartless.

  9. A friend of mine without knowing each other she has ordered to do magic to attract, I was devasted if he had known she is dirty and stinky, not even for a one night stand, not very clean person, what she want of him is money and he's going to give the money, she is being revealed also as covered narcissist. Men think they intelligent but they are very idiotic.

  10. Does this kind of manipulating occur between parents and their adult kids? Such as an adult who constantly needs "others" to pay their way in life.

  11. My ex claimed we couldn't afford the medication the doctor said was necessary to keep me from having a heart attack. Our youngest son heard him say it just before he talked our 3rd son into going to wrestling camp for the summer and he started taking personal trips out of state for marathons.
    That was 8 years ago, and my son still brings it up any time his father is mentioned.
    The effects extend well beyond the here and now. All of us survivors (me and my 4 sons) still have trouble with our relationships with money.

  12. Dr. Carter, each time that I think I've heard it all (from watching your videos) about how narcissistic my ex was, I learn something new. A huge THANK YOU!

  13. Yeeessss!!! Once my step mom just came home with breast implants! And cant aford my dad to have his broken two front teeth repaired? She has several accounts my dad has no access to… but shes a stay at home wife/slosh.

  14. I worked. I sold plasma. I got loans. I paid and paid and paid and was told I should stand on a corner with a sign to humble me and get more money. I am so grateful to God I am free yet sick to my soul that I lived this kind of life

  15. My mom is filthy rich BT we live so poor .neglect of basic needs no new clothes, no Christmas , food must be lacking one thing if its tea no sugar,school no pocket money ,u get no shit

  16. Money will not give you that. If someone uses money in a controling way,that person,is very shallow and will never know or feel what true love feels like. You cant buy love nor can you put a price on it. The best things in life are free xxx

  17. I used to think,money was the root of all evil… Its peoples love for money,that make it evil. The more they have the more they want. Quality of life,isnt through the value of money.. The value of life,is the quality of living x

  18. This is probably the closest symptom to my undiagnosed narc, drug addict ex. Some of the signs hit home but oddly some of them don't. There was a ton of manipulation, lies, and financial abuse but there wasn't a lot he could control because he refused to work and I was the main source of income so he couldn't say much about it. After years of looking back trying to figure out exactly what kind of abuse category I could fit it in, those three things were what stuck out the most with some partial isolation. I think he was an abuser who just either wasn't that good at it or by this time I had too much experience under my 37 year old belt. The financial abuse was the most effective because he drained my bank account continuously and by the time it started to sink it that this behavior was not going to change no matter how much I tried to teach him about bank fees and budgets, I didn't have anything left to even make a move. After the lease was almost up, I had just enough to buy a house with a VA loan (no down payment). Otherwise I would have been stuck with him with no autonomy whatsoever which I'm sure was his original plan (there were other psychological factors that would have made me 'stuck' if I didn't buy the house to get away from him completely. Longer story.) I made it out by the skin of my teeth.

  19. My ex Covert Narcissist husband created debt on credit cards I was unaware of then shocked me by demanding with emotional blackmail to get me to pay them off with the last of my savings. When I refused he’d rage and silent treatment me. It led to our final night when he demanded it and still would not show me the statements. I refused and he walked out that night. He also was bitter over me stopping work due to very serious sickness and multiple surgeries. Resented I “spent his wages” despite years when I’d supported him when out of work/didn’t want to work. He got bad in the last 3 years and soooo many lies and secrets came with it. My father had to send me money so I wasn’t using “his” wages to buy things I need. Absolutely selfish and horrible. I’d rather have not much savings let but the freedom and joy I have now without him than millions and still be oppressed and abused.

  20. I ended up opening my own bank account. When we shared an account if there was anything left at the end of the week, he’d spend it. He even quoted it’s there to spend. I took control of my finances as he is in debt very badly. Here its different, if you take a loan out it’s your responsibility not your wife’s/husbands…. he cannot pay bills, I pay all house bills then insist he pays his share….. we live like flat mates not husband and wife. Our adult children are on to him…..they know he is the spender they see right through him….. luckily they saw this coming for many months. We share the rental he knows I don’t take any of his crap and he knows I’m on to his scam……he is preparing for separation because I give him no supply…..60 years old he is it took me 37 years to work him out…..I’m looking forward to a more relaxed life once we the lease is done. Our smart children have all said I can live with them ….. I am choosing not too, 1 child is willing to take their father….. this child will lay down the law and not take any crap. Blessing everyone, please take care of you

  21. The financial aspect is a way to be very manipulative and dishonest. If she had $5,000 or $5 she was always over drawn in the checking account she controlled.
    And did not pay her taxes…and I was the one who paid with wage garnishment.
    All from a person who made 4X in annually than I did.

  22. When you are with a narcissist it is important to realise that you are dealing with a blood sucking parasite. A human leech. These people don't give, don't share…..and they don't care. They just use. Marriage is just a sham – in name only. The narcissist is far too much of a big kid to behave as though he is in a real marriage which requires and demands adult responsibility, reason, trust and cooperation and compromise. All of these words are alien to a narcissist. All they want is for you to prop them up whilst they make themselves comfortable at your expense and they will do everything humanly possibly to ensure you stay the way they want you to be – an never ending well of support, giving that gets nothing in return. Abusing, threatening, withholding, degrading you – de-humanising you is the only way they can sustain the status quo. Of course, in public, away from prying eyes they come across as the perfect marital partner, which means that if you spill the beans no one will believe you and the narc has probably already sullied the waters by dropping hints that you are not well…you are a bit paranoid…..can't control your drink….take drugs. Anything discreditable. Therefore once you start to open up, plan your escape route your available means of support believe that it is you that needs help and that your narcissist is the real victim. These narcs are unbelievably evil in the way they behave. The only thing to do is to cut your losses and just get the hell out.

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