Muslim Women Discuss Black Panther

Muslim Women Discuss Black Panther


As Salam Alaykum. Welcome to NbA Muslims Art and Society This is a really quick, impromptu Art and Society. I finally got to watch
x-men people have been saying you need to watch it I’m very much one of those
people who wait till it comes on Netflix watch it you have to watch it in the
theater and it was so it’s so much so that my husband actually was like I was
like okay fine I’ll just wait cause it doesn’t seem like I’m getting to do it
and he’s gonna take you to see x-men a Black Panther right now I’m taking you
because it’s important that you see it so I saw it so I finally saw the movie
and I really needed to talk to some It was a coincidence that we watched
it on the same day – I watched you like I watched it opening, like the premiere I watched it that Monday it came out that holiday, that President’s Day We’ve been talking since before we started so
very much this is black girl magic black Black Muslim women talking about this movie
and I wanted to across the board I really wanted people from African
American descent which is me African descent African immigrant and it’s just
like this great because this movie is really really has a lot of layers and we
will not get to address everything okay not really going off the bat I want to I
want to address something I didn’t want to I feel like is a sad commentary that
we need to in age and considering how how but it really just really is
indicative of how ignorant many Muslims are about things like
Islamophobia racism there really is this need and there’s
this cry from non-Black, some non-Black Muslims because there are
quite a few non-Black Muslims they’re like yeah they’re buggin’ I don’t know I
don’t know what they’re talking about whole thing with this little teeny tiny
two minutes in the movie and they’re crying that it’s Islamophobic. When I went
in and I saw the movie like I heard about it I read articles about it and
everything and I tried not to be biased about it I tried to be as objective as
possible you know in the back of my mind I’m like you know what have you ever
cared about black people you know so now but I just was like you know what let me
go in and I watched the two minutes of that move it’s like you know like it’s a
blink of an eye and I this was like yeah they’re kind of buggin when it comes to
that only because I feel like first of all they’re overriding some really
really important messaging and those two minutes in the movie. But also just like they
take things like someone saying Wallahi, which you know guess what? Non-Muslim Arabs say wallahi just like you know so that makes it Islamophobic
also like what is it they had they’re wearing like the turban things on it and
you know that’s a vast majority of Muslims you know wake-up call you know
Islam is not an article of clothing okay you can dress Islamically, but the clothing is
very very very very culturally specific and also people were mad because they
took off the things and put it around their shoulders wake it up I’m just like
yeah I think it’s a sad commentary that in a time where I think black people
okay Muslim and non-muslim have a cultural
production with which they can celebrate their blackness and start to discuss
some very pertinent issues in black culture overall globally not just in the
United States but globally that Muslims have to kind of pivot and tell non black
Muslims you know no this is not Islamophobic first of
all it really really I think says we need to know exactly what Islamophobia
is. [Papatia] Because the racism thing I mean they’re trying to say the movie is racist so because they
cannot it doesn’t stick so they have to turn to Islam Islamophobia that’s what
it is simple as it is bring something we think and stick it’s not sticking
because I didn’t most articles when I see it like and non black Muslim you
know post one of those articles saying is oh they’re only like a bit like to
think to conceive that people missed I was not in some way I didn’t read it I
wanted to see for myself and I didn’t think it was Islamophobic I thought that
you know like each other too much you know they come to help each other
because they’re the same people and they don’t want to be praised too much okay
we help you let’s keep it quiet we don’t have to talk about it doesn’t mean we
don’t have to you know it doesn’t mean anything no I totally agree we don’t
[Ramla] Even for me, when I first saw the movie I I actually felt you know it was almost
like a hiccup of a scene and you know I didn’t I didn’t think it needed to judge
sort of the you know the I think also it shows what I found very interesting you
know it also shows some people sort of not
understanding I think even Islam how it is practice or shown in Africa
specifically West Africa because the the interpretation of the you know their
understanding of hijab is sort of through their lens of what they think
should be done you know and so you find people you know Islam the outer garment
is very different in different parts of the world but they’re still Muslims and
I almost felt as if they were being a bit I don’t, know judgmental
because they’re saying as if we weren’t Muslims enough, you know they see that the
Blacks are dressed in a certain way and they’re like oh that that is you know
not Islamic for it that is Islamophobic right and so in any event I just I just
thought one I thought it was anyways an important see because well
you know it brought up an issue which I felt has been very quiet you know and
which was sad even that week the fall we week black panic about another hundred
set of Nigerian girls were kidnapped again so where are they
I mean they didn’t come out to denounce that where are the fundraisers to help
you know the Nigerian girls they like to attack but there’s no fundraisers
there’s no support and so I think the movie was great bringing out that
awareness yeah I wanted to add just like more for that first scene I think people
have this idea like a lot of Muslims in the West that Islamophobia is just like
oh bad images of Muslims and I think that’s just like a very incomplete
picture because you know it’s a lot more structural and of course you have like
you know Muslim racism like on a daily basis but this the same didn’t show you
know and act like you know it didn’t it wasn’t trying to portray some African
Muslim with like Islamophobic like tendency yeah oh hey look what make a
terrorist is joke like they were like literally showing Boko Haram was just
act which is uh what they are actually terrorist like that’s basically the
point you know um and I think that scene was important to I think just for like
another larger conversation about like you know Africans helping Africans you
know because another critique was like oh you know what condo was isolated and
you know it wasn’t never colonized and they never actually helped and this was
a very good example of Nakia for example you know a wakandan african woman
literally you know going being a spy and actually you know you know like we don’t
saving helping other african people so i think they felt like best scene was like
very important for that i agree with you i think there was so much more to that
team was deflection and that’s a really big important
that’s what he does he presents a frame of an American context to Islamophobia
and like you said structural death that talks about is not how structural has
personal and how’s dialectic so it’s a really good book and I think more
Muslims need to come out if it’s out read it and kind of really so that you
know being able to to construct a framework and work from that and
articulate from that is very very important that’s what he’s done you know
it’s very was very very subtle I you know as a cultural quick I know that
things could mine but also you can have bias demonstrate it in a very very
subtle way demonstrating a very very subtle way I don’t think that’s what
happened in this movie I think what happened was first and foremost okay for
me it was it set up Paola’s mindset okay because the only ways of why he got in
that suit the only reason why he jumped on that truck she was the one that was
constant like I don’t I cannot be here and comfortable why I know other people
are suffering she set up something very very poignant because he was ready to
kill everybody can to slap him and kind of give humanity to people because
that’s the only thing he was concerned about the only thing is concerned about
was getting it woman he was a male in power that wanted to give his woman and
sorry Maya turn around and make that Islamophobic
especially you look at the rest of the the movie the influence like cultural
influence I mean you and dad too I don’t know for me those towers with the thing
sticking out of it look just like last year to the West African in Miss Masjid
in in money that has that particular it’s one of the oldest mustards in in
you know I forgot that that you know that influence I think I made those
connections I think a lot of black yeah even I know
you know I fell in thought of the movie when I saw him mentioned try because
we’re merchants you know I was like we’re represented right there you know
you know he was they weren’t isolated because what are the people in his
council okay believers leader which I thought was like really really
indicative of the merging of cultures plate like down there we’re done you
know they try to put a piece of everybody in there you know all right
– it wasn’t far-fetched for me wasn’t there wasn’t like superficial on a
surface it wasn’t a fish bait you know we use what was there and try to make it
a little cooler or whatever or modern I think we chose it and what what is these
things what is interesting is that I was
reading sort of some articles and they also seen some videos online
you know these when you look at Ryan Cruz or the director and other people of
his team they were very deliberate because they did a lot of research they
actually spent time and traveled to different parts of West Africa in South
America down to the costume designer even the person who did the score of the
music you know he had sounds even had one of a famous Senegalese singer from
someone on this side of the water because definitely I see in your faces
in your eyes connections that I don’t have I just saying what typically
happens when you like movies of this scale the people involved in it dig
there homework right and the fact that they
did their homework there’s a part of me that’s why I don’t think there’s enough
OB because they travel to West Africa people know West Africa is literally the
hub Oh like of Islam also because there’s a huge Islamic tradition in that
area so they’ve encountered it I mean when they encounter to speaking with I
think his name is Baba Molly the Senegalese singer I mean that’s he’s
that whole Fulani tribe if you look into the history they’re Muslims so why would
they disrespect you know Muslims yes they did all that research so that’s why
I said it’s not Islamophobic and it goes back to my original point that some of
these people who are criticizing their education on West Africa and the rest of
the continent they have a very quickly I want to hear from Israel because one of
the things that happens when we’re talking about a global culture global
Muslim culture that it’s all Mesa centric and we’re and there’s so much
aversion to blackness yeah that you did become like this internalized type of
bias like where you construct this idea of Muslim nests based on your pure
oppressions oppresses based on the very surface level two-dimensional rendition
of what a Muslim is and you kind of internalize that and do that that’s what
I think is happening I think they are non-black muscles they’re kind of like
you know there’s so quick to race in ignore just how diverse a Muslim culture
is globally and and ignore and they they they they don’t pay attention to black
muslim culture how black muslim culture had centuries old by the way inland
century africa very rich and so when they when they’ve
got those kind of blinders on yeah Muslim this is certain things when you
boil down to it that’s all they see you know I said Marcus needs to put in her
article I said well maybe they weren’t comfortable around all those black
bodies if you have any kind of cultural competency you’re able to look at things
at least to say I may not know about a particular culture but I know that it’s
not mine so let me sit back and learn some stuff yeah so big conversation
where there is not just kind of conveys that okay now it’s for what do you think
yeah um I first of all I definitely agree I think it’s just thing well first
of all I think it’s a thing when people kind of see like black in a title or
like of something they kind of put in like people of color which is like a
whole nother thing you know this like you know this equalization of like black
and people feather they’re the same so like maybe we can criticize it um and I
think it’s also like you know just this race like who can make the the most
sexiest decolonial critique on like you know black black statements black movies
by cultural productions I saw a lot of like critiques saying like oh how anti
blah or capitalist it was I’m like you know we exist
in a society that is anti black that is capitalist then of course it’s I know
everything is already anti-bugging capitalist like why why does this movie
make such a like big impact for you like why is it why is it producing so much
like critiques especially you know from like non black Muslims and like you said
I think a lot of times you just don’t really know how African Muslims practice
their Islam on the continent right like I’m from Sudan and a lot of you know
like how women dress a Muslim woman dress in Sudan it’s very different like
you know even though we speak Arabic and we have an Arab culture we still have a
distinct different difference in how we practice our Islam and that was very
very completely lost on in a lot of
discussions I hide with non black Muslims especially yeah I think it’s
because they can’t see a slam outside of being brown yeah penalize the summer
phobia as well he raised every day on especially black people is just like no
go find a seat somewhere yeah exactly just kind of try to learn something
enough I just saw on Twitter I just saw on Twitter that Harley they do where he
was approached by a South Asian woman right yeah
why did you put a black woman on the cover of your book with honest talk on
like you know about Islamophobia in movies I think this really just kind of
goes to show like how internalized and how how internalized Islamophobia and
anti blackness is Muslim communities because you know they’re literally
showing their own bias their own honestly ladies I’m sorry I gotta shut
this down because I like this movie that I love okay kill monger okay don’t get
this okay don’t get mad all right and you can tell whether and
you can tell you can tell me website you think I’m full of it or whatever okay so
I didn’t really like Charo that much wait okay but Charla and kill monger
right X and Magneto okay which I love and this
is the reason why I love it okay then let’s you know Stanley yes said that he
based Professor X and Magneto or Martin Luther King No yes Malcolm X yeah so he
based it on that so the whole idea of this argument between oppressed peoples
about how this in combat oppression I love that they did that because Tyler
was not from an oppressed people okay so the whole question is if you do not see
yourself as connected to the oppressed what you do so challenged in it okay
Nakia did that’s why I hope AHA was in that truck all right the blue rope you
know got a play get out I’m so bad at names he’s you gun did by the way what’s
the character’s name walk I be look I’ll be yeah why did what copy say what copy
like look I’ll go thanks and if we don’t bring them back here yeah I forgot
I mean Africa don’t have the same point of view you don’t have the right that’s
what it is that’s what yes what copy is like well
we don’t want them yeah they’re gonna be screwing I think it does what guys one
of the things I see a lot up is like the people have has to come more and more to
reality especially people over here in the United States and Americans United
States and allied about Africa just like everybody else
of course that there is this whole this whole continent of people with all these
different experiences and something I’m a privileged so from that space of
privilege when you have that privilege do not connect people
what do you do I think that was shallow problem in the context of the movie
let’s be first in the context of the movie yes
T’Challa you know a lot like I actually believe that for me I might be sitting
next to a sister and in this particular moment I might have the privilege and
this sister might be oppressed whereas I go somewhere else and I sit
with another person another black sister but it might be reversed I’m the
oppressed and she’s privileged and so yes in the context of the comics and the
Marvel’s yes T’Challa did seem a bit privileged
because he didn’t understand a concept of how can we be oppressed were worried
I mean you know and that’s why he was shocked when his father told him of the
secret right but what I didn’t like about this movies that people think that
is happening in the continent which is false I’m coming from Uganda and I have
seen hope you know colonialization is something not so far to the point that
even my father like when he was a kid and he went to school his teachers or
colonizers okay Uganda yes no oppression so I believe Africans note because I
mean to the point that my mom in my parents they tell me things even my
grandparents this thing is so a lived experience that
it’s been transferred to us so we know what it feels like but I think we’ve
just experienced it in a different reason right and so I don’t and then you
come here again and then but there’s just sort of another level okay but
you’re right I agree like somebody said we do have to give your no respect and
you know also acknowledge yes there’s been a civil rights movement which has
allowed us black people from the continent to come here and actually
thrive and do well but it still doesn’t matter just like jay-z song you know and
I know you which song you probably know what song I’m referring to does matter
who you are they still see you like that you know but this is a dynamic understand because what that film is set
up in my mind and made other people’s heart and there is a level of privilege
that’s enjoyed by some maybe if the level of privilege you know I like for
instance I think that all of you enjoy level of members that I’ll never have
because my been cut short okay so it’s like that’s level of privilege so I’m
wondering if the movie setting that up and is how much of how much of that is
real because it doesn’t affect the my sense of people who are watching that
movie I mean yeah I mean I think just to say is I think we can understand like
what we mean by privilege just because people might be if lady and you know
white privilege or class privilege to what we’re talking about here so I think
you know in American context when we talk about privilege you know
specifically white privilege that exists because like in a historic colonization
of the Americas which grants you know white people privilege on a daily basis
and I think I mean just like the sister said I think the dynamic is very
different currently throughout the continent because how colonization has
kind of like you know affected even like my parents it’s you know it’s left a lot
of you know African economy is very dependent on you know Western nations
look you know just on that so they can oh they can’t really survive
independently that’s why we still have neo colonialism for that so I think
there’s I’d but just to go to your question about T’Challa I mean I think
we’re talking specifically just about the Chawla as a one person as the king
but I’m interested to see you like you know the the level of classes in Wakanda
so like how do pork what contents relate to I guess maybe the elite in Wakanda is
gonna give high to a copy they’re a blade rested in the movie if you recall
they said that you had the tribes and everyone had literally affair if you
read the comics like one had a fair like chance of challenging to become Black
Panthers so that is an interesting dynamic it’s not like I
think like that believe that is not like a caste system but rather people kill
your eyes to be able to challenge yeah yeah yeah sure sure why were they out there in the mountains
why did they choose to be out there and stay out there even though they did have
a voice because he came each and came back into your challenge what is here
what is it about that society okay that is its kind they decided to date
wanted to stay outside of that society so perhaps their what little classes in
the data science data first of all secondly okay do in my
opinion okay you could again tell me if you think I’m totally off I think that
Wakanda is on borrowed time and I think that the filmmakers kind of showed that
because they still had to go to the UN all right which is what yeah yeah they
they know had to hide themselves from the rest of the world so like like you
said uh was it you is what I was like even if you had like even if you’re rich
in that nation is still dependent on oh yeah yeah okay for African countries
yeah no it’s like they still have that so they were completely independent cuz
nothing happens in a bubble is a globe it’s one globe
anywhere so I think if they want to borrow time I think they’re trying to
show my strength so they find that the UN would be replaced to show it because
like you know that it’s not like not only African country do that there’s a
migrant country around the world a Muslim country who do the same thing
they’re powerful I defend birthday but they’re going to vocals it’ll be you
know gathering be like hey but where it is bigger than you know then you guys
you know it’s just sometimes a statement some places I don’t think that I that
would I think that even the most the richest are non-white countries okay
when they involve themselves in the UN they leave themselves vulnerable nothing
that they shouldn’t it’s just reality Georgia is always coming to your 13
weather one those washers doesn’t read a lot people live right in plain sight for
a reason you have to peel a lot African hide in plain sight
you know because our voters the voters out there you know when you say show I
know what happened to Molly around glee given to everybody club was a
representation of the wall knocking at his door and yes yes yeah on borrowed
time okay cuz it was going to be war clause we represent tried to represent
kill monger as the the biggest threat right far I was not the biggest threat
always Colin colonial white century yo I was the planning department that chemo
get played because I wanted to see another african-american that wasn’t
like you know as careful as kill monger you understand what I’m saying yeah Jill
Wagner was an african-american okay mommy’s african-american if your biggest
nationality you know I felt like you know that’s what he never felt no he
never represented or presented himself as anything but will conduct as fact he
wanted to help everybody else you want to go out and help people and build his
empire by the way no no no disagree they kill monger actually I believe when I
saw his character to be honest and I understand why people relate to him but
personally for me I just thought he was a person with short-term girls there was
nothing long-term about him he just he was like once he said burn it off you
know and when I see it’s funny I was in you know speaking with somebody in
african-american he said oh I just love that part I’m like why I mean the whole
point is for you to elevate your people but you see how short-term he is and of
course there’s that famous quote people like Pope when he’s there you know
because he has a knife in his chest and I’m alike look I mean he even had an
opportunity to redeem himself you know and I just could not believe
that actually I was just like this sucker I’m like why did you that’s not
what I’m saying I know that people are very much pressed to feel like he’s a
representation of african-american resistance okay and the thing is that if
we took in African Americans until tally took kill mongers perspective and his
approach to things we wouldn’t survive I wanna I want to say just before I forget
um I think the decision for again for T’Challa to join the UN I think I would
like to think that if Wakanda was a real place that they wouldn’t have made that
choice just because they have war dogs all over the world and they would see
you know just like the KKK stuff America does all over it so I I think that I
think you just carrying on what his father did
yeah very much at a crux he was at a crossroads he had an opportunity to
change that that like you said there he was given this kingship and everything
that came and it was at a time where the world was about to knock on his door
and the people and the people inside that is saying look we can’t keep things
the way that they are okay sit back so he was not getting he did it wasn’t his
choice to join the UN his father was that’s what yeah so it’s like weighing
and so what did we the kind of like you said like you know like withdraw from
the UN and be like you know yeah guys enemy so you know he was a king he told
Chawla but you know I already knew the books he was prepping himself to return
there and take over the throne he was not a nation of african-american
struggle he was with you know one that felt like he should be an absolute
monarch and an empire builder and Natalie is gonna do
yeah I didn’t gonna agenda yeah he did it wasn’t for the people and I think no
to clear that up I don’t think he had genuine interest that’s why I’m still
blown away how some people feel they can relate to such a character because I’m
like I thought we’re all about a community of like his pain you know just
growing up in the Americas like he said like you know I mean an Oakland kid
ready oh right like you know just running around with like dreams of a
fantasy that he belonged to a Conda I think a lot of people in Kris like
personally I was kind of just relating to his pain you know just as a black
person does you know existing in a very anti black world and I think with him is
like you know he became his own he became the colonizer basically that’s
basically was advocating like I related to his pain but he wanted to use his
vengeance as I guess like maybe this her the the goal for like this Empire
Builder you know basically you know can’t join in the seals you know
basically killing other people for the West I mean that’s basically what
colonizer is what white colonizers have done and i think he wanted to do that
with you know with Wakanda and by the vibranium and I and that honestly wasn’t
really a true representation of like African liberation I think right now and
I think another interesting thing between like a distinction between
T’Challa and kill monger if you see how they treat their women okay now kill
bunker is unfortunately his character remember what did with the incident when
remember when Zuri died there was the deputy who came in who actually was a
woman and when he said Brenna doll he like chokehold I’m like why would you
want a king like that who has literally disrespect for women and you see out to
China sort of you know sought counsel and you know advice from the women
and so that’s sort of I know leads into our Kannada and women but you see that
that’s another distinction between the two I’m not saying that I really loved
each other but I’m just saying that you know you can really see the stark
difference and you’re right like you said earlier it’s unfortunate that kid
Walker I felt he could have evolved a bit better
yeah in the movie it was just so cut and dry you know he was like a lead ball
I was like oh my god you can like a character not like the actor you collect
the character now only two from me there were only three people okay that I liked
the character and I liked to actor the actor played the character well and gave
the character its own personality and like and one you will marry Sheree was
like the actress she did she played that part very very well yes and so she let people know that yes she
was a princess that she let people know that and so the actress did a very good
job yeah anchoring that like okay but I claw I’m
sorry the actor that played claws later love
them very much you wanna take a break right
I think you’re right because he actually and I like the fact he really indulged
in it because he represented that white greed that what capitalism that that
vulture you know that just takes he’s like yes when he said these savages claw
and agent Ross I just wanted to say clothes like you know the vicious like
whites at like white colonization and Ross is like Oh polite racism or diluted
white supremacy you know I’m like unleash yeah when you have that level of
unit white supremacy where it muddled your mind to that point no I can’t
control it not even the government even now what do we see now what do we see okay KK Yeah right you like the way he
was people kill bugger like he had control over kill bugger right
you have control over someone like that okay yeah that’s true and even if one
point I should never thought about that a bite that’s true about kill Margot was
very much this has anyone ever seen the movie this poop that sat by the door
okay so then I can’t I can’t I can’t okay
he was very much that if that’s homework okay back to see this movie the spook
that sat by the door because that’s what kilo manga was
mm-hmm that’s what the broader global white supremacist Claudia lip waving
society is afraid of okay okay and the biggest mistake that I think Charlie
made in that I know he was like no one was a little bit over as a deep fan like
he when he said I came to kill you I was like oh well that’s what he was there
for me and Sheree me and Okoye ami ki ma that white man told them what kill manga
was and so when with Charla said to him I will not let I will not leave our
weapons in the head for someone like you like told you about me watch TV in
America because I can tell you a lot of times when it’s like over here it’s like
we knock those blackity black black black black swear when you don’t know me
that was the biggest mistake that telling me and I was like this is not
okay right just like looking like and I thought she
was gonna be like look colonizer like you really think sure enough Sheree yeah again I think
yeah yeah I mean I think just to go just between my claw and like age like agent
Ross like both of them Lee and other white men both of them you know the
bottom there white men the both of them actually feel entitled actually to the
vibranium the the vibranium that belongs to a kinda you know claw was just kind
of like you know this delusional this delusional vicious like white colonizer
and agent Ross you know again was like the polite races the the kind CIA agent
but FPN actually got to Chara and the Condon’s so actually show their
vibranium yeah well you know I have a choice that’s the moment normally not a
lot of women especially a press Society or subjugated Russian yeah and I think
just going back on what you said before about how like a lot of non black
Muslims they don’t know how Islam is performed a lot of African countries I
think the same thing goes with gender as well because you know kinda as you know
it’s on colonize you know African country we really don’t
how gender actually operates there because you know we’re still looking at
it after like this Western lens we’re like you know we’re we’re so used to
seeing patriarchy as like the norm but um you know it’s just like very
different so I think I would like to like I think it’s I think it’s a greater
conversation that we can have about how gender actually operates in what content
society and a lot of African societies actually – so I think that’s pretty
interesting oh it also happened here yeah you know
when we were very much a stable part of that yeah like the more science temple
or the neighborhood you know that they they their existence depended on the
contributions of the women inside of them been a long time ago it wasn’t for
the work of Clara Mohammed structuring the nation instruction in educational
systems within that nation and everything like that so it’s like you
cannot as an oppressed people kind of like not give women their due in the
society and their voice in the society in African country and that mean oh
African you know countries most of the countries are my vehicle like power is
the woman have the power you know when Islam came that sort of a change by
still woman gained a lot of muscles right now have power I do that you gotta
think is like but rocky like you know the travesty version of it you are
trying to sell towards a woman needs to be peaceful know we know that’s not true
woman usually control faith exhausted be always be like that before Islam became
and by when they’re trying to sell us is along they tell us oh yeah you have to
do it this way but we know better than that
well that’s that’s what happened here win-win okay you know better than that
the radical as the Nation of Islam was but there was a system and it had its
faults because every system and every nation has this fall but
was disrespectful women and look at Malcolm X in the things that he said
about women and the relationship that he had with Betty Shabazz and his sister
and other women and so what happened was when there was this influx Muslims from
patriarchal Muslim societies okay South Asia in the Middle East
okay and they said listen Blackie we know more about Islam than you do okay
and shift there became this shift to controlling Black Muslim women instead
up protecting them and nurturing them okay even though that’s a typical to
slam but they still it still happened and the only thing is is that honestly
you gotta unmute yourself when that what happens but the fact of the matter is is
that now Black Muslim and african-american and African descent
black muscle men here they have to come to grips with the reality first of all
that’s not what it’s lamb teaches yes don’t you know better than that yeah
going we’re doing that okay because your systems the mosque should stay open
because of women we’re all stay running because of women yeah organizations are
created and maintained because of women and it’s like you’re not going to have
any kind of liberation if you are consistently focusing your attention or
oppressing and suppressing Muslim women inactive and that black Muslims had to
get a grip on and that’s the thing that that black panther show it’s like yeah
in this society yeah they gotta listen to the wood right I think I think it was
it was good it was like really well done it was like that was yesterday later I
shared an article with like it I don’t know if you read it but the writer you
know was realized you know he was yeah it was a lot of things which but I
thought were important what she was trying to sort of compare and contrast I
don’t know if you ladies are ready the feminist
in black panther versus that of wonder woman you know and I thought it was you
know she mentioned some interesting nuances one for instance which I think
kind of jumped out at me was the fact that you found that you know I’ve seen
Wonder Woman I just saw it because I said you know what let me complete this
whole DC Marvel stuff so I said okay just watch and I waited for that to come
to TV and so you know we’ve the ladies of black panther we already know what
they’re all about but with the Wonder Woman her issue was that you know
there’s a part in the movie where she finally gets the strength to sort of
fight one of these enemies but it’s almost because her the love of her life
has just died or something like she uses you know she she uses like a man’s right
to finally get this straight Panther like the ladies are just not sure all
right they don’t need you know the man’s
permission they can just be who they are even whatever decisions they make I mean
you could see with Nettie as character she’s like you know the guy was like oh
you know you could be you be a stubborn Queen and she’s like that’s if I wanted
to be a wee you know and so that is fine with me so I like the fact that you know
even though the man was trying to impose some tight or something on or a
lifestyle she said no I have my thing going on kind of thing right so she you
know her character was not really I felt or her ambitions were not dependent on
two challahs feelings you know she didn’t care if he heard her feel you
know hurt his feelings but you find a stark contrast with Wonder Woman where
when I saw it I was just like I’m so glad I didn’t see it in theater because
I now I know why it’s just I found it it was just pathetic because I’m like
that’s a comment trope when it comes to superheroes like the super you know it’s
reinvigorated because the the love interest is in danger you’ll see that
you with me Wow right I don’t know whether or not that’s enough to kind of
like make a distinction between the feminism so I can’t Leila
the good thing is why I’m glad I watched it because it now gives me a bit more
armor like I can throw but for me I intentionally waited until it hit TV so
once it was on TV you know you know it’s it let me just sit through it and I’m
like to be honest it took me two days to finish because there are parts were
rolling my eyes and I used to watch Linda Carter Wonder Woman’s when I was
low a while and I get it you know what and now I actually get it because now I
look back I’m like you know what she doesn’t represent all women and that’s
what pissed me off when people were trying to claim it you know you know
they know we’re all women that’s what it is
good morning right there when you try to press this very very fine I put these
right and there’s a woman hood that you got issuing that problem you know and so
it’s just like they don’t represent even even even woman her human black
womanhood I think what they represent a departure from that regular old model
type of woman in superhero movies where you either have to be like helpless
yeah okay what is it oh my god I couldn’t stand spider-man because of
that redhead made me sick all right always trying to save my like girl dude
come on yeah go go somewhere safer yeah you have to be like this sexy kind of
femme fatale that you saw yeah well you can tell by the clothing though people
so we get really like Meg was sleeping on social psych you don’t like it it
reinforced a certain thing and we get affected by oh you know when you get
back because if the popular culture is just giving you kind of like unilateral
rendition of what womanhood is and you don’t fit within that then you’re
affected by it that’s what we need to be represented in what I did
the women would definitely a departure definitely a departure from well the
whole movie was because I really I think one of the interesting things about this
movie is that for me what I saw it as is kind of a definitely borrowed from the
Star Wars model okay I think that’s the reason why we have so much to talk about
and I mean just even the use of the costumes early on and people going into
the day I mean it was very very much Star Wars I think they saw it as that I
think those were because most of the Marvel comic move this is the only
Marvel Comics movie they actually did that asked those really hard questions
you have instead of the superhero having to worry about the just a flat villain
destroying and you know the damsel in distress because that’s all of them yeah
all of them all of them all of them all of them
you had liked and taught you had all of these different conversations and level
and how people interacted with each other and even just the final battle
scene where you had those different battles occurring and they were
switching between all of them that Star Wars Marvel Comics never did it that
well before and I think that they part I think that they also decided that’s like
the the women in Star Wars they were going to make sure that the women
characters were not just like either damsel distress or sensor mm-hmm
that’s why you have like these fantastic characters and they got they got some
really good they should have done I’m sorry you’re gonna hate me they should
have done a bit of a better job on the male actors for the big character but
like they really did a good job even like with Angela Bassett you know yeah
he was good I’m wondering if it was intentional though there’s a that’s
that’s what she was being killed with Angela Bassett like you’ve seen Angela
Bassett act that way before you say what do those things before okay
so that’s the reason why it’s just like you know agile West did this fabulous
job and you ambassador Angela Bassett job okay she did her job I didn’t like
Twitter that’s a whole nother here he did that he did not come off of the
mystic for me at all but you know these three these three actresses okay and
these three female characters are very very unique to the superhero brand okay
and it’s just I think they did a phenomenal job with that I’m hoping that
it’s a catalyst for a shift in the narrative it’s not in and of itself you
can’t have a shift in narrative just with oneself it’s just not going to
happen that way yeah we’ll be more and I think I read an article where they’re
thinking of a standalone for a core yet oh yeah that’ll be interesting though
apparently in the car it’s though I don’t know if this true I
don’t know you know I think I’m jumping on the comics but you know there’s an
interesting also dynamic and this may enter another discussion if that trilogy
does happen because relationships yeah with all those women in that garden so
that might traumatize a few people and they have to be ready for that if they
do think of that you know particular script I mean so that’s something you
know I remember somebody was telling me on this Facebook which I’m part of and
you know just like my mouth I you got going on in first of all you know why
because I’m Way I’m watching a movie about a king so just like you know what
so what did you expect from a marquis a Barnard so yeah and what happened do you
know what happens with Nakia and well I don’t know the backstory for that guard
for the women’s guard the guard are Charla okay Okoye a in particular and
Nakia oh my god I don’t believe me I don’t know I mean they’re really like
they’re like a couple like I didn’t know that that’s it nothing you gotta be do
in another movie would they be like adding like new characters like storm
for like yeah because torment Otello are you know comedy yeah okay which okay
yeah you gotta read about the Kia that’s what I’ve noticed with these
Marvel Comics to be honest like Jenner is raised to it and you know you have to
sort of you know brace yourself on that I think aspect and some people may not
be you know aware of that took certain elements of the oh they took it out
there were like different this movie was like four hours apparently yeah we’re
like why did you give me the whole four hours you know those characters will
probably make it on TV blame necessarily like especially Chawla maybe that’s the
reason why I don’t like him because I know a little bit of his character the
comic but it but the comics themselves go part and parcel with Marvel okay and
the filmmakers decided not to do it which I’m so glad that they decided to
take certain elements out I mean you have more twisted license with
everything so it’s like I’m so glad that they did that because they they made
those characters very very phenomenal and dynamic and I think it’s like the
type of characters that every women and girls from different backgrounds to kind
of look at and interact with almost ultimately a monarch that is their king okay so but you know III really think
that they do the job I’m glad that they did it that way yeah so I want it’s been
an hour okay yeah Wow let go but we didn’t talk about the the tension
between african-americans and Africans and I don’t know why you know people
watch a movie at admission it you can feel it you can feel the tension
traditions right there but you know like I said in the past and with you Leila I
feel like we need to like work out differences and yeah we really need to
work out differences because you know our relationship is very bad when other
you know can she go could it can you know miss out word we need to you know
for the future of the you know practical moving ahead we have together we have to
stop listening to the colonizer I’m not against adversity I am I am for
diversity mate has to be done well and you know and I feel like you know
Africans are strongly in Africa because Colin Colin Yongsan in here too you know
was African descent are still you know being affected because of white
supremacy it’s like he knows like on one hand you know baby a lot of damage in
our society ever turn around it’s the consignee that’s like they went far to
divide black people all over and we a lot of people don’t see that and we need
to come together yeah white supremacy there’s Arab supremacy
if we cannot get our stuff together first before we can go up it’s like we
have to get half of each other first ivenna we can’t go and say okay you know
Black Muslim you know you need to know our deal you know you need to be you
know to push your you know your bias aside and see us as human you need to
put your biases I see that we know what we’re talking about you need to put your
put aside to know that we’re also like a Muslim and we deserve a table I think
also there’s that tension between like sorry that tension between like African
Americans and of course you know I you know Africans I think it also stems from
like what I’ve realized with my interactions of course with my fellow
you London’s and then my interaction with African Americans the divide is yes
we can blame the colonizers but at the same time I think we each don’t
understand our histories and so you know and I’ve noticed you goodness they don’t
seem to comprehend you know the real depth in the generational trauma you
know that blacks in America have gone through you know that’s all
I think they can’t relate to it and of course like you said you know even your
new gun don’t even mention I always thought our brothers know but nobody
like so we come here we feel like you know feel like the african-american
complaining too much when when we start to dig different we see that a lot of
damage is being done in that that’s what you China was man is like I cannot join
little penny first because we need to write all these wrongs I was really when
you say make that comment I was like exactly what I’ve been saying we need to
write our song we cannot just go and follow the ancestors a lot of things
wrong he’s like either China chose to admit selfie that has happening yeah but
then you’re right because also another aspect is you know education because
your side also with african-americans they also feel good and I have to be
honest some of them don’t understand the continent or the depth of colonialism
and how to it traumatized people and so sort of where we’re coming from and you
know and I get it I’ve seen an african-american sort of you know
Studies course and it’s fine they kind of you know get some semblance of what’s
happening but of course most of the you know information is focused on what
happened here you know so that’s why I kind of wish you know if some of these
especially these HBCUs you know I don’t know if it’s there but just really where
people can appreciate you know that African culture likewise I also wish
that you know in the continent of Africa people also need to be you know educated
you know that you know that aspect and not only that you know when they come
over to the US or at least force themselves like I even tell some of my
friends I’m like when you come here you know don’t just have these you know
sweeping statements have you ever spoken to an African American is that engaged
with them and so one last thing I need but yeah what
I’m saying to summarize is that you know for me
I’ve also lived in Canada so I have seen the black experience in different places
and I think what has helped me was trying to engage because a lot of people
assume oh the Canadian experience is the same as the u.s. continent experience in
all these all these people because it’s very different it’s like if you don’t
leave Africa so you don’t become black until you leave Africa actually you
don’t understand it when you leave I forget you’re like oh my goodness this
is crazy you know it’s like when you come here and you flush yourself to
understand the African American then you see what’s really happening it’s like I
need to open the eyes you know like you know African American a ludic about
colonialism Africans also detach about the slave streets like we need to
educate ourselves and Charlie you know see eye to eye we need to settle our
differences but that’s gonna take some times gonna take some doings it’s really
hard you know it’s like I’m going to my people because I might like my family
members me you and I our members in like you know high places of government
that’s one of I really want us to sit down and have questions like whenever I
see I say people need to like come together I’m not making those
assumptions I really want to see them through I’m working personally I mean I
think yeah I think to that as well like Rhonda said I think more conversations
just across the Diaspora of black people just recognize there’s literally black
people on like every continent right and I think a lot of conversations like
after Black Panther eyes I thought was a very very us centric Namie superficial
it was like very centered on like you know African Americans and the trauma
that they’ve experienced and I really I and I understood it because you know I
grew up here in America but it also kind of made it seem as if it was very
particular to like you know the black people here sorry I’m sorry it was not
he was a kid no no no not not not not not Raquel monger no not not freak the
mugger and it’s like this whole idea can you open up the curtain babe because no
one cos yeah this whole is one of the things that I could not stand about this
movie alright and I’m going to say so in love with this movie one day I take my
glasses off one of the things I could not stand about this movie yeah is that
Dave in both instances outside of this ideal of wakanda okay
which was not by the white man black people aren’t words crap that’s the
message that it says I’m like oh my god everything like that outside of it it’s
saying to all of us who are part of my heritage of complete survival and
thriving to the point where we get to a certain level of success that white
power structure brings us and I’m so sick of that I’m so sick of this idea
that oh my dear you you you’re not worth anything because you’ve been colonized
you’ve been a slave you’ve been this you’ve been that and it’s whole things
like oh yeah white people then we would be all okay that’s baloney
that’s baloney we was dogging each other out anyway but
you know you have to be like in this pristine Afrocentric culture to be a
viable productive black person globally is be conveyed that mess that was not
african-american trauma that is not the way most African Americans responded in
that in my ancestry kilbarger was not not a representation of that anybody don’t know because I think the
discussions that follow that is because most people like a lot I yeah I think
like I think almost everybody they’re only familiar with like only with that
NFL way but there’s also like you know descendants of slaves in South America
there’s black people in the Caribbean there’s a lot of people in Brazil which
is police brutality in Brazil is yeah it’s this idea of black social death
where colonization how it how it operates it’s different on the continent
it’s different in the UK it’s different in Australia is different in India and
the US and the like you know yeah South America so I think like again
like understanding these histories but I say it’s all but also understanding that
you know just because our trauma isn’t necessarily the same that we can still
have these conversations you know just because it operates different because
we’re all still like we know we’re all still black people and black people you
know the Davis you know so yeah that’s black social death that’s black
social does how this starts to become a part of that and how and what in the
world that I faith plays in that as well and I think that’s one one big challenge
that we have as black Muslims is that we are a part of this larger this larger
border social constructs yeah demeaning and degrading blackness and some of us
have very much internalized that and we have diluted ourselves as Muslims into
thinking that um that somehow disappears in Islamic context ideally it does but
it doesn’t hear an application that two different
things and even right but not even here but yeah oh sure a lot of times like to
really like they don’t like the fact that I talked about this thing
Brotherhood and so what is the reality and and I think that black Muslims need
to kind of like open up their eyes to that yeah exactly
yeah race that and appreciate each other so that we can we can cool it and we can
if we can create a collaborative and a collective of a collective of mutual
respect or straight face because I need to do that for ourselves because not
over again improving that they’re not interested in doing that
overall I’m not talking individual behavior I might be talking about yeah
behavior I’m talking about overall because if you have someone that it has
learned and knows and still is asked that question about why are you
including blackness and then woman must not have read the book cuz he talked
about black black black black black black black and black but when you still
have that it just shows you that they’re not interesting at this point in doing
it they don’t respect us so CSS humans yes that’s the reality the same people
that are reading Quran do not see you as a human being and unless we turn around
we decide that we’re going to build something and we’re gonna we’re going to
port each other oh yeah then they never will but I think
like honestly I enter to jump on your point I think what needs to happen to be
honest and this may sound exhausting but even us as like black people sometimes
you just have to like you know go there and educate some of these people I mean listen I’m an african-american Muslim
woman okay and learn about cultures and learn about people and learn about what
they like what they don’t like talk to them and you’re right what I will do
what I will do is I will sit with my fellow blacks know I have a gap in my
understanding of your experiences that’s what I want to learn about that’s what
we’re going to go in and we’re going to share this stuff we’re going to do this
stuff that I will do okay if someone from Nigeria or Cote d’Ivoire or Sudan
oh it’s like listen Leila let’s talk about this let’s learn about this from
each other that legwork I’m more than happy to do okay but no I’m not I agree
with you and you have a very strong valid point this is where I’m coming from also
because my concern is this is that what I see especially with some of the
messages you know and let’s say boards and even when you look at our Muslim
conventions and conferences right there is a lack to be honest a representation
of blackness on those boys and so you know you even find our institutions are
not really you know well you know they don’t just represent us at all and
there’s a part of me that feels you know what sometimes you have to push those
doors open and say you know what I want I want put your doors open they know
about us they know about us you should the marches and everything Oh Malcolm X
Muhammad Ali Oh a slave African they’ll spill spell all of that crap and
nonsense out and still at the end of the day okay
look at my son and be like nigga I know you stole something from this Masjid
okay look at Rene black hair and be like oh that’s just it don’t belong here what
are you doing here sister all right then talk about that you can they know they
know these organizations these ignorant if suggest I said it everything like
that okay hey you know and their digs went to
a certain level and they still leave your black behind at the door if they’ve
done it for the last 25 years now because they went run away yeah
18 years all right 17 but they came running the black Muslims after
September 11th when whitey was on their case okay because there was no clothes
they wanted so badly to rub up against the white man and live in their
neighborhoods and not want to deal with black people at all and when they
realize oh wait a second they mad at us and they don’t like us hey Blackie why
don’t you come protect us okay they did that Nicky let’s all let’s look let’s
listen and everything like that so no movement so same thing the women’s
movement yeah I mean it’s also just like I’m not
watching no I mean and also just add that because like the first thing like a
lot of like immigrants like these immigrant non-block Muslims do when they
come here is that they see that if you want to succeed in this country the
first thing they do is distance themselves from any black people they
see from like black people struggle about people movements just to kind of
climb this ladder of success that’s not honest okay you know and even within
like you know my own MSA you know you think you know it’s immigrant Muslims
you know they’ve had their children here they grew up here
but they still have you know strong sentiments of like anti blackness and
what I feel like dysphoric communities of black people need to build this like
Black Muslim ontology Black Muslim resistance something specific to us with
other black people because honestly you know black social death it doesn’t it’s
not a race just you know because of faith I mean if there are any you know a
lie if you want to come you can come and help and whatever but I think to make
our purpose be to go and teach anti-black most songs that we are you
know where they are very humanity is something I don’t think it’s worth doing
doesn’t exist he’s already going on for three years
and not not people are doing that already like you know fighting the
blackness on top like this movement but you know there’s still a lot a lot of
work to be done a lot of work to be done but yeah they’re not more than no change
because you have you have organizations like the muscle anti racism class
library yeah ready to train there in your behind okay yeah well trained it
has it’s not or one with the hubs that you said they’re asinine stuff that way
there is conference and trial organizational level anti race education
no they have not because they’re not interested in that and even goes because
they’ll sit up there they’ll say oh look at Muslims and look at you and the black
Muslims too and use Black Muslim bodies and then at the end of the day when the
time comes for grants and funding and stuff like that they keep it very much
in their communities okay and they’re like no poor black people in the ghettos
we’re not giving you any of this money they do not they do not they do not
mutually supporting up with organizations that could make a paradigm
shift because they’re not interested it’s all a bunch of optics I’ve been
jaded by it for too long I’m sorry I hope so again positivity because right
now the glass is empty it’s not even half empty it’s just yeah very
redeemable things happening okay there are a few out there not nearly enough
because even those people who sit back and talk about they’re there for social
justice and liberation for everyone the way three their federal fellow black
social justice advocates and activists behind doors it’s abysmal it is it
simply and plainly abysmal and they try to give lip service and stuff like that
so yeah that’s the reason why I’m just like feeling like that I I totally
respect where you’re coming from like listen
at this point I’m just feeling very much that Blake like like Ezra said black
people need to build on their own okay and it may be but it will be ours and
the one thing that will happen okay one of the things that will potentially
happen are oceans as black people and black people in the United States we
have an extensive heritage in American ownership and we have african-american
Muslims where it’s just like listen there’s certain things that certain
perspectives and certain avenues that your air behind not going to get to your
South Asian bhai is not going to get to it’s not happening it’s happening with
the African American people and so just like that’s why we need to like
come together and build something because I don’t want to teach anybody
anything you know all my life having to learn you spent all your life having to
learn the patient’s fits all how like having to learn when do we when do
people just turn around say I am going to learn on my own because they’re out
there they’re supposed to read read I can get your websites and books and
everything like that because what the Black Muslim reads that
we just did we know the scholarship is out there you saw all those books listen
why get yourself get yourself slide Abdul Kabir get yourself a Sherman
Jackson and start something and you can just move your behind on look at
bloggers look at Margaery Aziz white not reading her stuff okay cuz you don’t
want to know look at what that the one that did the water bottle oh well then
Mohammed yeah it’s where writes blogs I white black I’m not gonna sit and carry
your pail so that you can learn something okay because this your Islamic
mandate to do something the last one oh I thought let’s say that we’re supposed
to know each other all right so start freaking knowing I’m not doing it here I
have to do it I have to do it for myself you do it for basic survival like social
but you know what guess what we have the competency now we have a clump together
you had to learn outside around myopic cultures in a space where I will be
subject to not only anti blackness but racial microaggressions from desi and
Arab and white pussy yeah okay like you know I’m human because I’m like why
you’re done in the first place because you know how to act okay baby is we’re
married wider he’s picked up a freaking book he knows to me but you know just because you’re
married to somebody no I don’t want you to do this because I’m telling you right
now in this book like this what kept me like I was always supposed to read the
introduction and then go back to there I didn’t go back to work and then filing
work had to pull me away but it’s just I’m telling you I would love to know
exactly what you guys think about everything about this book because like
this definition is I haven’t even purchased it yet oh wow I need to I’ll
need a very intro yeah look girl you gotta get the book we got
to do this okay okay how much time are you giving us to read the book
I think everyone left us but it’s all right I told Jenny okay so I’m going to
put I’ll put my bi trans clips up on Facebook and Twitter and everything like
that but the backlog for coming thank you boy and I really would like to do
this to meet you

3 thoughts on “Muslim Women Discuss Black Panther

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