Joker Wasn’t The Movie We Deserved, But The One We Needed | Jack Saint

Joker Wasn’t The Movie We Deserved, But The One We Needed | Jack Saint

– [Jack] Look, folks, if you’re
coming here and you’re not already a fan of my videos,
I’m gonna level with you. I am a full-on, card-carrying SJW. – Why won’t you just shut up?
(man screams) – [Jack] You know the ones that have to read political statements
into everything they watch and talk about how this thing you liked as a kid is problematic for some reason? That’s me. You ever get recommended that video about how the movie Sky
High is actually fascist? Yep, that’s me. (frog ribbits)
– Uh oh. – [Jack] So trust me, if anyone was going to do a big, hot take about
how Joker is secretly an incel, red pill, alt-right propaganda
movie, it’s gonna be me. And I’m here to tell you this
movie, I really liked it. (bright music) You know what else I really like? Today’s sponsor, RAID: Shadow Legends. RAID: Shadow Legends ain’t
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you could be one of them. Also, quick disclaimer:
this video is going to use the word society repeatedly. I’m not gonna make a joke about it. I already made a joke about
it in a previous video. I’m kinda sick of the joke. I wish we could stop making it. Now to get some out of
the way before I move on, it should be obvious to
anyone who’s seen Joker that it resists easy and
straightforward answers about who it’s for or what
it’s really trying to say. Even beyond questions of what elements of the film are even real and not the wild fantasies
of its lead character, it’s a film that isn’t
particularly interested in sign posting any correct message to take away from it,
instead giving us a series of both sympathetic and
horrifying vignettes, painting the picture of a man
and the culture he’s a part of being driven to the absolute brink. Joker is a deeply political movie, but it isn’t one interested
in only giving lip service to one possible perspective. I think a lot of people are going to be coming out of this movie not sure whether the titular Joker
was a hero or a villain, which speaks not only
to how much audiences have been trained to see
clear-cut moral rights and wrongs in their
storytelling as of late, but a deliberate effort on the part of the filmmakers to
leave you as questioning where their own line of
acceptability is drawn. With that said, I also don’t think there was the desire to leave you
as apathetic about this, to come away going well,
I guess you can’t say who’s right or wrong for sure. Oh well, YOLO. I feel like it’s impossible to be really engaging
with the material here and come away shrugging
your shoulders about it. It invites real conversation,
and that’s what I’m going to be trying to do today
by providing my take and hopefully fueling
something more constructive than the usual fabricated two
sides bickering each other. The second thing I wanna get
out of the way is what I mean when I say this was not
the movie we deserved, even if it was the one we needed because for the most part, this is going to be a surprisingly
positive video for me, considering how critical I usually am of the political messaging
in big Hollywood fare. So to be clear, I think
Joker does a tremendous job of illustrating very
contemporary anxieties about class divide and marginalization in our current society, and I’m gonna get to why in a second. But I do think it missed
the mark pretty profoundly on aspects of marginalization
that can’t really be ignored if we’re talking about
somewhere like the USA, especially taking into account
the film’s period setting. Namely, this film does almost nothing with the clear racial and sexual aspects of how marginalization has played out over the last few
decades, and in some ways, I think it even opens itself up to some very dismissive
perspectives on things like the ways black and Latino communities have clearly been the primary victims of overt systemic oppression. Overwhelmingly, these are
groups that suffer most from many of the things
this film has to talk about: poor education services, poor social care, job insecurity, and, as we’re
increasingly finding out, pollution and negative health defects at the hands of big industry
on top of hindrances like racial profiling and
housing discrimination. For all the film has to say
about how the working class and mentally ill are treated,
these groups are boiled down to token representation in the form of cardboard cutout
characters serving mainly as hindrances to the white male lead. Now for sure, you can respond by saying that this is inevitable when
you’re making a movie focused on the Joker, and the
Joker is obviously going to be a white guy until
the SJWs get their way. And to that I say
absolutely, which is why, for me, it’s a somewhat minor criticism among most of what I have to say. Still, when a kind of unified uprising against an oppressive system
is the focus of your story, I definitely wish more of an effort to acknowledge this stuff had been made. There’s only so far a conversation can go when you’re ignoring half of it, and frankly, I think that’s a
problem Joker 100% falls into. Okay, now, fair warning,
I’m about to gush. The gushing is about to happen. Are you ready for the gush? Here it is. (water splashing) So Joker is obviously not
nearly the first movie to deal with issues of poverty, mental illness, oppression,
or marginalization. Yes, I have seen The King
of Comedy and Taxi Driver, and you should also, as
well as everything Ken Loach has ever made, everything
Spike Lee has ever made, everything Andrea Arnold ever made, Sling Blade, Winter’s
Bone, Precious, Girlhood, Moonlight, and Tangerine,
but not The Florida Project. I have some bones to pick with that one. Also, maybe check out
some Gaspar Noé films, but try and do it on an empty stomach. I think there’s a huge
amount of perspective missing from anyone suggesting Joker
is something totally new when, even among flashy,
stylized US dramas about class divide and violent protest, last year we got the absolutely incredible Sorry to Bother You. Once again worth recognizing
so many of the films I just listed both star non-white
and non-male main characters and were given far less
investment and publicity than Joker, and that
probably isn’t a coincidence. But the point is Joker
is doing incredibly well both critically and commercially, and I think that’s a big part of why it’s worth talking about. The message of Joker appears
to be very much coming through, even among people who
generally avoid stories with this kind of focus. But what is that focus? Okay, so brief summary. (man belching)
Spoilers. Joker 2019 tells the
story of Arthur Fleck, a clown for hire and failing
standup struggling not only with extreme poverty in
a run-down Gotham City but also severe mental illness, resulting, among other things, in an inability for Art to
recognize basic social cues and a pronounced tic forcing him to laugh in inappropriate and
uncomfortable situations. Taking cues from the now
famous Killing Joke story from which the movie is mostly based, we then track Arthur as he
goes through one bad day or, in his case, one bad week or so. First, some kids steal
his sign and beat him up. Then he gets fired from his
job for bringing a gun to work. His mother gets sick. He’s openly mocked by his childhood idol after a particularly bad standup set goes the AT’s equivalent of viral. Lack of state funding means
he loses access to any kind of social care or medication
for his various disorders, and, with his mother’s eventual death, Arthur completely loses
his grip on reality as he embraces the violent
alternate persona of Joker, or at least I think it would be easy to say this is Arthur
losing his grip on reality. The question ultimately posed by the film is could we really
imagine any outcome other than this if we do factor in
the reality Arthur lives in? Which brings us to my first
point of phrase, framing. A common pattern when we look at many big Hollywood genre movies, especially superhero
films, is a focus very much on society as being made up
of individuals who appear to make the world a better
place or to make it a worse one. It’s a classic framework. We have the hero who we can put all of our hopes and dreams into,
and then there’s the villain who represents a disruption
of the status quo and who needs to be
defeated to restore order. Watch any Avengers movie,
you see what I mean. And this is a pattern that repeats in a lot of fiction like this. Sometimes, this bad individual will at least represent ideas
meaningful to the main character. Lex in Batman V Superman
might represent powerlessness. Obadiah Stane in Iron Man
One might represent greed. Ego in Guardians of the
Galaxy II might represent ego. Joker in The Dark Knight represents chaos. In this way, he probably lines up closer with The Killing Joke incarnation than the one we ended up with here. As a villain, if, again, we
could call Arthur a villain, the one we get this time
lines up with a second run of villains who don’t just
represent abstract ideas but specific contemporary
issues in our society. Killmonger in Black Panther is one of the most obvious examples, written to represent broadly
the disenfranchised minorities in the wake of colonialism, more specifically the
black community in the USA. And then there’s Spiderman:
Homecoming, frankly, the closest thing the MCU
had to real acknowledgement of the growing class
divide in much of the world with Vulture being a
blue collar worker forced into a life of crime to
support his struggling family. Sadly, Parker himself
doesn’t contribute much to that conversation. Unlike basically every other iteration of the character usually seen
as the working-class hero, compared to heroes like
Bruce Wayne and Tony Stark, here he’s the pet project
of a doting billionaire and will remain so for
the foreseeable future. But that’s not the point here. What I want to highlight
with these examples isn’t just what these
movies tend to talk about but the way they talk about them, namely that, with rare exception, any time a social issue is
introduced in these movies, it’s framed in the context of a villain who might have a point but
it still fundamentally wrong. Vulture might have a point
that the rich exploit and quickly discard the
poor, but he’s a criminal who kills people and threatens
teenagers and steals. He’s wrong and needs to go to jail. Killmonger has a very good point about the indifference towards atoning for our histories of
colonization, but here, yeah, he also kills people,
and he wants to kill all their children, too.
(man screaming) Ideas are boiled down to individuals who can then be quickly discarded so we never really have to consider how broken elements of
our society really are. For more on that, check out my
video on ideology in the MCU. But then there’s Arthur Fleck. Now Arthur Fleck does do
terrible things in this film. He kills first in self defense, but after that point commits
murder more and more freely, even suffocating his own mother in a moment of bitter revenge, all of this culminating
in the brutal shooting of a talk show host in front
of a live studio audience. These are horrific acts, and
it’d be hard to empathize with any real-world person
who acted in this way. But here’s where the penny drops and the question left by the film that made me realize
how much I enjoyed it. Even if we agree that much
of what Arthur does is wrong, can we truly blame him for his actions given the world that he lives in? Even more pressingly, can we not in some ways justify his hatred? Arthur Fleck is extremely poor
and severely mentally ill, two groups usually the first to suffer when social support fails a community. When, say, a conservative government talks about austerity, talks about a reduction in public spending to
reduce budget deficits, these are the groups they
are knowingly harming, as indeed they do here. Even his mental illness is
to some extent alluded to as being rooted in the
same lack of support with the revelation of his
adoption and years of abuse before being discovered
by social services. This is if we ignore the
even darker possibility that Arthur was actually
the disowned child of corporate mogul Thomas
Wayne, here framed not as the angelic father
figure he’s usually seen as but just another indifferent
multi-millionaire, spouting tired rhetoric
about how he’s here to save everyone, all
the while chastising them for protesting the reality
of their social conditions. Arthur Fleck, for all he
supposedly loses his grip on reality, in some
ways simply sees things for what they are. He sees a marginalized public
being constantly mocked and derided by a privileged elite with no real knowledge or care of the life he’s had to struggle with. And he says fuck you, no more. And against all odds, the
public picks up that message. Fuck you, no more. And the film smartly does
the thing these types of movies rarely do. It lets that idea fester. We don’t get a Batman showing up to calmly moralize how he
understands Joker’s frustrations but can’t endorse his violent methods, to take him down and throw him in jail to restore order for another day. The film essentially
presents us with an idea that if this is the material
reality of the world we live in this is outcome of
violent, desperate protest is the only one that makes sense. And, well, this is the material reality of the world we live in. At the climax of the film,
Arthur himself pointedly claims that he believes in nothing, and I think that’s important here. I think if Arthur were framed
as a more straightforward, revolutionary idealogue,
more of a Killmonger figure, it would risk inflating
his nihilistic bloodshed with the 99%-style resistance
protest movements the film is clearly nodding to with its conclusion. At the end of the day, Arthur is what you might call pure ideology, a
man so consumed by the feeling that the system will not give him a voice to change the reality of his condition that he resigns himself
to the small victories, the ability to put a face
to every privileged asshole who told him he was nothing more than a punchline and to pull the trigger. This is the actual outcome of the individualistic
rhetoric I talk about in these types of media in
which we desperately try to play along with the fantasy that there’s one bad figure
representing all the ills of the world who we just have to put a stop to to end the problem. And Joker 2019 says no. Actually, these problems are the result of a series of much more wide-reaching, interconnected systems, the
result of a class system upheld by a state, most of the time
upheld by corporate interests. It’s a simple equation. If you take these communities
and you remove the systems in place to care for them and
you remove any real ability for them to change that or, in many cases, care for themselves, this is the result. And frankly, yeah, I think we
really need that right now. And it gives me hope that a
film that acknowledges all of this is currently doing absurd numbers all around the world. Here we have a
multi-million dollar project that doesn’t cast a moral judgment on violent revolt against a broken system, that doesn’t say maybe you have a point but you went too far. And by the same token,
it doesn’t spell out this is good, it’s a good
thing this is happening because frankly, we know that it isn’t. Nobody out there
protesting right now wants to be fighting tooth and nail out on the streets for their rights. People who just wanna wreck shit and cause chaos are a slim minority against a population that simply wants to be listened to and treated fairly. It’s a film that’s willing to stand up and say that this is, like it or not, the predictable outcome of what the powers that be choose to do with its people. And I don’t care if you’re coming at this as someone who already believes
all the same things I do. Hell, maybe you usually find yourself in political opposition
to me more often than not. I just feel like if there’s anything that’s going to get us all to realize that we’re all fighting
the same enemy here, it’s going to be stories like this one, stories that don’t seek to police the line between justified and
unjustified acts of protest but simply say this is our
world, here are its outcomes. What could we do together to change that? And sure, that could be naive. There will, after all, always
be people like Thomas Wayne or De Niro’s Murray
Franklin, insisting that, despite all we know about Arthur and the society he’s living in, he should’ve just worked harder or made different
choices as an individual, people who want to ignore how
these are predictable outcomes of marginalization like
we see in the film, people who, as Arthur says, won’t get it. But who knows? Maybe just once, we can
basically agree things need to change rapidly and fundamentally if we have any hope of making
it out of this thing alive. Now a few things I wanna
touch on before I go. One, once again, I think it’s evident that this film doesn’t
give us a transparent, correct interpretation
of what it has to say. This is my reading, and
I’ve ready many others that differ pretty fundamentally to it. I’ve seen some argue the film, quite contrary to my
pro-revolutionary read, has a deeply conservative bend. It does, after all, conflate
anti-fascist movements with literally the most famous
supervillain in the world. And yes, to anyone who says the film plays into the trope of
demonizing the mentally ill, I definitely see where you’re coming from. I do think the film really goes out of its way to underline that Arthur could have been a perfectly
functioning member of society had he not been so relentlessly shat on by the systems in place that
were supposed to protect him. By the end of the day, he is still yet another
severely mentally ill man committing random acts of ultra violence when we know full well that the overwhelming
majority of these kinds of attackers have no history
of ill mental health. Finally, I want to acknowledge again yes, I think the film drops
the ball drastically when it comes to acknowledging
the other intersections of oppression that clearly play a role, especially if we’re talking about the USA. I think it’s sad to
imagine that may be part of why the film has succeeded is because of its reticence to acknowledge things are more complicated than class. In any case, I do hope
that if you’ve stuck around through this, you hear
where I’m coming from. And even if you disagree with my reading, which I’m very much prepared for, we can have a sincere conversation about it in the comments
here and elsewhere. I don’t know, worth a shot, right? If you liked the video, please
consider giving it a like and maybe even subscribing to hear more perspectives like this one. Use the bell button to be
notified of new videos. If you really like my work, feel free to throw me a
few bucks over on Patreon so you can be one of the
names scrolling by now or through Kofi for one-time donations. It helps me keep the channel going. Finally, consider sharing this on places like Reddit, Twitter, or
your local discord server so we can spread this
discussion as far as possible. Other than that, you can also reach me on Twitter @lackingsaints, and I also stream regularly
at You can also check out The Serfs, my channel recommendation for this video. They do great political
streams over on Twitch at, as
well as fun YouTube videos which I’ll be linking
to in the description. A final thank you to our sponsors today for supporting this video. Remember to use the links
below to help out the channel. And I guess I’ll catch you next time. As always, love you all, and stay safe. (pleasant upbeat music)

100 thoughts on “Joker Wasn’t The Movie We Deserved, But The One We Needed | Jack Saint

  1. Reminder to check out the RAID: Shadow Legends codes at (IOS) and (ANDROID) to help out the channel and get some neat bonuses for a cool game!

    I never try to worry too much about who my video is going to appeal to or alienate, I mostly just make the arguments I feel make the most sense and let the chips fall where they may – with that said, with this video I have tried very hard to walk a line where I can be understandable both to big fans of this movie and skeptics, from all across the political aisle. To that end, I'll be trying to moderate comments to keep discussion civil, but I hope in any case we all get something worthwhile out of it. Have a great week, folks!

    (P.S. please send me a dollar on patreon if you like the vid it helps me pay rent thx)






  2. Hearing what you said about how one's actions might put their ideals into question brings to mind three figures that also fit well into this subject, two of whom are ALSO from DC comics.

    First, there's Amanda Waller; a woman so bent on keeping the safety of America in tact, she has no issues with committing heinous actions in order to achieve them. While she IS right about how all the supervillains are incredibly dangerous and that the Justice League could become a threat to humanity. It doesn't excuse the fact that she'd go as far as to blackmail, intimidate or even TORTURE people into doing what she wants.

    What really makes me laugh is that her excuse for all this is "it's for the greater good."

    Second; speaking of idiots who do heinous things for the "greater good," there's Wade Eiling. Like Waller, he also works for the government and has a mad belief that any power that rivals America's must be destroyed. He's so wrapped up in this belief that he exposes his body to an experimental serum that turns him into a hulking monster.

    After that, he goes on a rampage in the city; putting many innocent people in harms way…all to get the attention of Superman and the League. But instead, he gets the attention of non-powered heroes like Vigilante and Shining Knight.

    The latter not only calls Eiling out on his hypocrisy and proclaims his mad beliefs about power are morally wrong. But even though Shining Knight didn't win the fight against him, the people of the city manage to do so for him. One of them, an old woman openly questions how many people do people like Eiling need to kill to keep people safe?

    When Eiling tries to save his ass and claim that metahumans are the real issue, a kid says that he himself is the only metahuman in that area. In the end, Eiling reluctantly realizes he became what he always hated. But he defends himself by saying "you'll see you'll need the likes of me to protect you from THEM."

    To which, I mentally called BS on that. The day I need the help of soldiers like HIM is the day I actually WANT another operation.

    Lastly, there's Sakazuki Akainu of One Piece; a man all about "Absolute Justice…" a belief that states that all criminals must be punished, no matter how big or small their crimes are. He's so bent on destroying the evils of piracy, he'd stop at nothing to achieve it; even going as far as kill innocent people.

    Sure, Luffy and his crew may have stolen some treasure. But that can always be replaced, when you think about it. Akainu, on the other hand…he steals people's lives; something that ISN'T so easy to replace.

    So, much like with THIS version of the Joker; I wonder if the governments in the other examples are the real evils

  3. If the Alt right and socialists ever realise they are fighting the same war against corporate enslavement and join forces, society will change! And something else: In the 80' people living in project housing were helpful to each other, social class was a stronger bond than race, so in some way, the totally eyelevelness between Arthur and his black neighbour was, not an attempt to gloss over tensions, they recial battle was just fought on a different front back then!

  4. This review is retarded
    There is absolutely no political/marxist references in this movie, at least not as jack portrays it
    The only reference to capitalism being bad is the therapist scene, where the gvt decides to cut some therapy programs for fleck, and even in that scene, fleck implies that these programs never really helped him and was already on the path of delusion
    Any other possible political interpretation is derived from the fact that the protagonist is working class and the antagonists are upper class, and you just presupose that has some political undertones when it clearly doesn't, fleck's problem's are rarely related to his social condition and more often to his character and mental ilness
    For fuck's sake! The movie litteraly points that out to you! Showing how joker's apolytical murders became politicized by the media simply because the victims were upper class people and its even arguable that its this sence of presence and agency that ignites the spark in fleck and causes him to become the joker

  5. I completely disagree with the assumption you make that marvel movies are proyecting a message of "the one true bad guy". Basically every movie on the MCU is about the mistakes of "good guys" and the responsibility they have to make it right.

  6. I don’t agree with your take, but I think it’s just a side effect of the movie being pretty general about it’s going for. I thought the movie was fine, I’m one those people who were ambivalent about it.

  7. sjw's seem split on this movie. half of them believe the movie is problematic because it lays down a blueprint to incels and white supremacists, the other half believes this movie paints an exact picture of the failings of american society

  8. "They should have shown more statistics about how much of the working class is poor" instead of… what? Showing a lot of black people and POC all throughout the film wasn't enough?

    When well off whites gaslight lower class whites who they treat like shit, these same whites are then treated like shit by POC who see them as easy white targets. Then you make a movie that shows this aaaand… what happens? A privileged white person complains on YouTube about how the portrayal of race was inadequate lol. Jesus christ you fuckers have no idea what it means to be working class.

  9. Keep telling yourself that this film fits your lefty horseshit victim way of life perfectly.

    "We live in a Society HURRR HURRR HURRRR!"
    Teenaged Antifa twats….let 2020 be the bell.

  10. i dont care about super hero stuff and there is a 0% chance i will watch this movie…. but holy shit did they cast the joker well that dude's face is perfect

  11. No I don't think the joker movie is based off of the killing joke. Inspired maybe but the only similarity between the characters is they're crazy and comedians

  12. You are as programmed and indoctrinated as any conservative political ideologue, my friend.
    People like yourself – and your political opponents – abuse and/or ignore the Arthur Flecks of the world, each and every day.
    You only 'care' about them when it is politically expedient.
    Once you've used them, you drop them, abuse them – and, ignore them – all over, again.
    Then, when anyone – black, white, or other – goes on a spree of violence, you are shocked and cannot understand why such people 'go postal'.
    Instead of looking into the mirror for answers, both of you blame the violence on your political opponents.
    …and, use the violence to justify your own hubris and self-righteousness.

  13. Jack: Joker is actually a film satirizing the inherently toxic environment that is late stage capitalism
    Also Jack: This video is sponsored by Raid Shadow Legends

  14. "a riot is the language of the unheard" – MLK
    doesn't need ideals or politics or even coherency, it just wants to be heard.

  15. The biggest difference between joker and other political comic book movies is that joker doesn't try too hard. It's natural, and the story revolves around it. Unlike the one marvel movie that spats unnecessary feminist agendas at our faces just because it's a story with a powerful woman in it.

  16. While I do have some not insignificant political divergences from you, I have a lot of respect for you.
    Unlike many "SJW" youtubers, you sound sincere and honest in your videos and are capable of nuance (Peter coffin, philosophytube and contra are to me very good examples of people willing to lie and misrepresent for the sake of their narrative).

    I have a slightly different reading of the portrayal in that movie than yours. His mental illness is the cause of bullying and his social difficulties but not the violence. He is not lashing out because of his illness but because of the way he is treated. This can be seen with murray, he was not planning on hurting anyone, just killing himself, but once again he was pushed. Apart from the doctor at the end all of his violence is exclusively reactionary to the way he is being treated

  17. a point brought up by a friend of mine regarding the portrayal of race in the film: no black character in the entire movie is named. they are literally the invisible people of Gotham

  18. well good job on giving this video a funny title, but i had to turn of when you started talking about systematic oppression. i'm latino, and i grew up in new york during this time period and someone like you is last person who should giving their option on what is appropriate.

  19. It is so weird. I am russian and the message about poverty gets lost for a lot of audience here.
    Just because our hospitals almost never look like Arkham Hospital. It's prestine, it's huge.
    Gotham looks like a regular big city.
    It's at the same time rearly spocken about horrible living conditions in some areas and we discuss this things at the dinner. Like, yeah that's reality.
    Sure, Gotham looks grim but not poor to us

  20. “What do you get when you cross a mentally ill loner with a society that abandons him and treats him like trash? You get what you fucking deserve!” BANG

  21. That's what happens when you try to put people in charge of lives. All government systems are evil. Both Democrat and Republican. Socialist and capitalist. It's not the system we need and fooling yourself to one side or the other as the solution is part of the problem. Sorting these things out on small community scales is how to provide individual care, with a larger system who's only purpose is to make sure that supplies are stable.

    People are not equations, tools, and figures. No man is greater or Lesser than another, we are all made in the image of God. Those you keep trying to put Man in charge of an issue, we need Jesus.

    Have Jesus our King and Lord as our moral ruler, disbanding all weapons, getting rid of infringing laws to control, love and help each other.

    Yup, strong communication, communities, Christan morals, and families. Simple as that.

  22. there is actually an alternative universe where bruce wayne is the one murdered in the alley and it turns his mother to becoming joker and his father to becoming batman in the flashpoint paradox so the sjws have been at it already!! (please read humour into that last bit)

  23. As a black guy I was taken aback when the black people in the film were presented having important positions that require a lot of education like social worker and psychologist, in an age where they were hit the hardest than any other group because of reaganism. Of course I kept silent about it because I would be marked as the oversensitive black dude of the group. Thank you for bringing this up.

  24. i think people are reading wayyyyyyy to much into this movie. HINT: it's made by a capitalist entity with the aim of making money. HINT 2: the director has already explained what the movie is about.

  25. 5:45 I would say creating a female version or a black version of a very well known character like the Joker is the lazies shit ever, why should these be canon? Not giving females or black people their own original characters is "problematic" 😛 why do you think that just gender or race swapping is okay?

  26. What I took from the film was a story about people who lack empathy, and how that contributes to society as a whole. Every time Arthur gets demeaned or hurt in the movie anybody involved could choose to stand up for him or at least acknowledge his being mistreated. There are few instances where characters explicitly act on empathy. Arthur takes care of his mother and their relationship before Arthur learns about her past seems like a genuinely loving one and is the biggest indicator, at least to me, that Arthur had the capacity to be a good person. Then later on in the movie, Arthur spares the life of the only person who was nice to him. It’s left to interpretation whether he and Sophie live, but the movie goes out of it’s way to not show people who were, at least in Arthur’s mind, good people be explicitly harmed.

  27. I pretty much agree with your interpretation of the movie. I really liked it, I'd even go so far as to call it a masterpiece. Next to this video I was suggested so many videos like "SJWs triggered by Joker," "SJWs want to ban Joker", etc. Now, I'm pretty much subscribed to every SJW on youtube and I didn't see any outrage there…

  28. For me the movie is not about the Joker, it isn't about Arthur, it is about society seen through one man's eyes, even if these eyes are subjective and not reliable, but in the end every experience in our lives is subjective. The movie would have been a mockumentary otherwise.

    Also, Joker doesn't kill for any ideology, the only people he kills are ones who personally wronged him or who 'betrayed' him in his mind. His first killing is merely a domino piece that starts a chain reaction that he isn't interested in anymore afterwards. He is the subjective observer of the world around him and the movement that he started doesn't affect his life. He is still a mentally ill man in a society that doesn't care about him, he still ends up in Arkham where he may would have ended anyway, even without him killing people.

  29. A thought occurred to me before I even started watching your take on Joker and I hadn't felt an appropriate place to install it til now. The thought was that the character of Arthur Fleck could easily be a depiction of a problem with figures like Jordan Peterson who as thought leaders try to be father figures which reinforce that it is one's own fault they are not successful and ignores that we can be put into circumstances beyond our control no matter what sex or pigmentation level we have.

    Jordan Peterson's children need to entertain that even "white" people who don't fit into the fantasy of the nuclear family can be thrown under the bus as a sacrifice to those in power with more recognizable groups (pigmented peoples, transsexuals, etc…). I only hope my expressions don't undermine the more marginalized groups, because they are still severely more marginalized then any heterosexual "white" man with no wife and two kids who didn't make it into the circumstances which would supply them the great suburban dream.

  30. thank you for this video! i didn't agree 100% with your reading and feel most of what you saw was done accidentally but you touched on issues i noticed immediately while walking out of the theater, personally i cant call the movie good, but the conversation it's sparking is at least productive which i feel is most important

  31. I loved your review and agree 100%! This IS a message much needed right now. Scary times right now. And NOT because, you know, everything is "RACIST!" Or "Homophobe!" But because everyone not going along with the accepted narrative is bieng targeted. And because so many untruths are so widely believed.

  32. The film feels very anti uprising to me, and the lead feels explicitly un-heroic. I pity Arthur, but don't root for him. Was glad to watch joker so I could enjoy this video! lol.

  33. SJWs suck, but I am glad you liked this film. Also, what does the marginalization of other races have to do with the narrative? Diddly. It's about class, not race.

  34. I really liked the movie, but I can’t fathom why there are people decrying it that it’s a “red pill” neo nazi recruitment video, don’t get me wrong, the reactionaries are trying so hard to claim this is the truth of it, that this is the movie they need to speak the truth.

    I just saw a sympathetic character pushed to the breaking point, being a by product of a system that doesn’t care about its people, that a lot of the time are the first things to be cut.

  35. I think that including intersectional discussion is important; but the focus on Arthur isn’t just highlighting a white male but the treatment of the mentally ill mixed with class struggle. He didn’t have the means to help manage very serious illness and that really wears a person down.

    I love all of your points here though and this is yet another fabulous video. Thank you.

  36. I'll say this real quick your review has been the best review on the joker movie that I've seen that's far. Real. And honestly, not to agree for agreeing because that's be beyond me, this is the kind of review on this FILM that I've been waiting for. And "all sides" review of this MOVIE in our times, but who has always been A FICTIONAL COMIC BOOK VILLAIN. These darker times are touchier times, but far more then have been poked at harder by harder movies and directors, like SPIKE LEE and NATURAL BORN KILLERS. This hits many of a lot of people considerations which, thinking positively as someone under the impoverished mentally not so well group, is why it's so big a…. Or this could be the work of big corporate to generate sales. I like to think great movie, possibly easily the most relevant of our decade which is ending quickly. Anyway, thank you. I needed this. I even liked and subscribed right after I finish the video which I'd never do

  37. I feel like the film IS the joker. It makes a lot of statements throughout the film but the one that stood out to me is when Joker states, "I'm not political." The film is in itself pretty messed up and is surrounded by people who will use it to affirm there own political beliefs wether that be positive or negative. In the film Arthur just simply kills three guy first starting in self defense then turning to straight up murder. It is the people in the city he lives in that make him a political statement. That is of course how I took the film. I think it's a great film especially because it has allowed so many people to talk about it with so many different views and take aways after viewing. In that since I believe that this film is by far one of the greatest works of art in modern cinema.

  38. If this is the case, then the film inevitably falls flat on its face. It's nice it wants to draw attention to this stuff and its inevitable outcome, but what do about?

    I mean the downtrodden vs establishment isn't this ambiguous topic, it's a real fact of life.

  39. Society didn’t create a hero or a villain in this story, it created a heroic villain who felt wronged by the people around him.

  40. You just haven't seen the director's cut which has a 30 min cut scene where Arthur reads off a list of societal criticisms from your diary.

  41. I genuinely like this video. However, Joaquin Phoenix is not a white male. He is hispanic and he looks it. He grew up in Puerto Rico. He is fluent in English and Spanish and he is proud of his heritage. Just because he is light skinned great actor does not immediately mean he is white. Every joker review keeps saying he is white and he is not and it's very frustrating.

  42. We live in a society. Raid Shadow Legends is a society. Start your adventure in Raid's society today. With a head start of 50K silver and a FREE CHAMPION you can climb to the top rank of the society in no time.

  43. What I got from joker (2019)
    1 not all white males are psycho pathic killers that’s a stereotype based off of racism!
    2 suffering from mental illness does not make you inferior to anyone else
    3 bullies create crazy narcissist who feel they have the right to hurt people because they have suffered in their lives! That’s wrong
    4 guns are good to defend yourself!
    5 capitalism works in favor of the wealthy it’s too hard for the middle class to succeed stop supporting a broken system!
    6 Society

  44. You start by saying how you judge movies from a political standpoint instead of an artistic one…and then you follow up with your sponsor. Dislike

  45. Fuck I wanna watch this but this asshole is using big ass words I feel like I need a degree in English to understand this guy

  46. I forgot the name of the guy, but you know the original Profiler who started the movement to predict patterns to catch serial killers? In one of the last interviews he commented afterwards something to the effect of "he is just like us". I think we mystify too much the concept of violence in our modern world, because it have no need for reason, creed, ideology. The only deterrent is personal morality, and morality is malleable because people are malleable. Everyone can do things they once disagreed with because they can become someone who does not think the same anymore. Even if sometimes the inertia is very slow to overcome.

  47. I like how this movie is practically a call to help people with mental issues, but sjw's feel like they gotta complain about everything. For real, good on you for rising above and just enjoying the movie. I don't care care for the right either.

  48. Interesting points..agree with some not all……there is a sequence in the movie where he kills his colleague and lets the other go kissing him on the head and saying ; You were the only one who was good to me….disturbing…

  49. Just watched the movie today, and I'm surprised you didn't notice the moment at the end of the film, where the maelstrom of sociocultural violence happens to catch the Waynes, and as Joker "thinks of a joke" in the asylum, it cuts to Bruce Wayne… famous for responding to his parents' deaths by blaming it on a criminal Other and devoting his life to beating up specific individuals held culpable for Gotham's systemic corruption.

    Batman is a joke.

    One hell of a hot take for a WB film to make, and one that lines up with my growing distaste for "heroic" oligarchs like Batman or Tony Stark whose actions are presumed moral unless explicitly stated otherwise.

  50. Thank you for bringing up the fact that minorities were the ones that suffered the most (financially, academically, and more). That's something we often miss and I'm glad that someone pointed it out.

  51. "I'm off my meds,i feel so
    Much better now"-author
    ….1minute later stabbed
    His coworker in his
    Is now BORN.

  52. What I loved so much was the film's ability to encourage EMPATHY for one another. It doesn't choose sides. It show's the dangers of BOTH extremes, and makes us look in the mirror and take our own moral inventory. It forces us to feel sympathetic to a character, to empathize with his pain (bullying/shame/loneliness/rejection) and contrasts that with a violent act that we know is clearly immoral. That emotional rollercoaster was brilliant storytelling! I mean, you had questionably the MOST violent scene, and the FUNNIEST within seconds of each other! lol Comedy and the tragedy. 🙂 + 🙁 the opening scene in the mirror. Hierarchy exists in all species. Even a big tree deprives the smaller of water. Sinatra's "that's life" is right, and the chaos is inevitable. What we CAN control is our reaction to it. What we CAN do is not listen to the "Super Rats", "Vigilante Subway Killer" and he said to Murray "YOU decide what's funny or not" (media) that cause riots. Keep this dialog going because Left/right, black/white, rich/poor; if we don't practice empathy for one another we "get what we deserve" =Gotham

  53. If we can relate and have empathy for the suffering of a white male lead, it becomes a window to begin to be able to have empathy for minorities. I think it’s brilliant that it isn’t about minorities, because people who are bigoted cannot see the direct suffering of minorities. But they may be able to look through the window of joker.

  54. "the joker is going to be a white guy (until the sjws get it their way)"

    why do I have the feeling that SJWs would cry their hearts out if Joker was black and/or a woman?

  55. you'd have to be goddamn braindead to see joker as a right wing/incel propaganda film. this movie almost can't get any more left leaning without joker literally looking at the camera and saying "hey! capitalism is bad!"

  56. i like the movie a lot because despite being focused on poverty, mental illness and child abuse in particular, anyone who's ever been mocked and disregarded for who they are can relate in one way or another. For me personally, the phrase "For my whole life, I didn't know if I even really existed. But I do, and people are starting to notice" hit me like a train and resonated on a very unexpected level because I'm trans. of course the movie wasn't meant to be one big trans allegory, and the phrase can be bent into as many other identities/ideologies as you like, point is, we're all outcasts in one way or another, and we all can carry this message close to our hearts against the society (yes, queue meme) that ignored, belittled, infantilized, demonized, oppressed, dismissed and/or wronged us in any other way. To show yourself unapologetically and let everyone know what you're about. and that's special. For me it is, and i stand by that

    (also I'm s a total sucker for all the artistic shit and masterful craftsmanship that went into the movie but I'll keep that 200-page manuscript to myself)

  57. 4:40 – 5:34 Oh for fuck sake dude, what you're doing is basically DIVIDING the working-class with BS identity politics.
    The oldest trick in the book used by the elites, to divide the poor and to convince them to fight amongst each other instead of joining forces and taking their frustration out on them.
    I see the Joker as a man who lives in poverty of no fault of his own, and a mentally ill person who doesn't have the resources to help him. And what do you see him as? "a wHitE mALe" -_- what a way to judge people, based on their race and gender, instead of their character.
    At least to admitted to being an SJW, so, I can't really criticize you THAT much since you already said it yourself.

  58. The biggest problem with Joker is that the main character doesn’t really have a consistent goal, first his goal is to become a comedian then his goal is to find out if Thomas Wayne is his real father then his goal is to kill Murray Franklin for mocking him on television

  59. Wich got me a little scared to watch the movie was when i saw some coments about it saying this: "yeah, lets show to this liberals: the movie shows us that a white man with mental ilnesses has life more hard on him than spanic imigrants, black and gay people that usually have more easy and win the liberals simpathy staring in this films". And the people who saied that afirmed to be from the left! I thinked: "what the hell guys, this shit youre talking about is not diferent from a lot of the shit of the alt-right.
    Plus: the director is the same guy that directed The Hangover series, and while i have a memory of enjoiyng the first Hangover (that now i constantly question why), i couldn't get pass the transphobic scene of the second one. So i'm afraid that he told this dark tale about a comedian just as an style exercize instead of reavaluating the harm that some of his jokes have caused in the past.

  60. Great review and analysis, but i almost turned off the video at several points just from sheer annoyance. It wasn't a friggin social justice movie about racism or anything else you mentioned, it was ONE man's story of oppression and hardship, and it wasn't preaching about marginalization in general, or making a statement about anything political, it was just holding up a mirror to society and showing what could easily happen to a mentally ill person and how the character of the Joker "could" have been created. I think YOU missed the mark completely, because "a unified uprising against an oppressive system" was NOT the focus of the story, that was simply the backdrop; the unknown and unforeseen, rippling, societal consequences of Arthur's simple actions of defending himself (and releasing some pent up rage with the last man he shot). It was a "subplot" that later ties-in to his rise to power as the Joker in a kind of serendipitous, ironic destiny. It wasn't meant to be a commentary or some deep, far-reaching political message, just a reflection of the world itself and how monsters (and supervillains) are created, from a very realistic, real-world perspective. Much like Rob Zombie's Halloween reboot and how Michael Myers "became" a psychopath, due to all the abuse/neglect he suffered as a child from his dysfunctional homelife and the subsequent years of being locked up and not receiving the proper psychiatric care he needed, etc.

  61. This movie is about the break down of one person's mental health and not about class warfare. It kinda bugs me how clear cut this is a joker story because of how society treats this one person and by extension everyone but it's not an anti rich or wealthy statement, it's simply showing how shit it is for some people and how one man pushed to the edge again and again and again eventually snaps.

    Reading this about social classes is you looking at the side plot and saying "that's what this movie is about." Not the actual main plot.

  62. Terrance Howard should have been Joker. In the movie, he could have explained how 1×1=2. It would have been far more believable than Joaquin Phoenix acting like he had a mental disorder.

  63. Can we stop pretending like "one bad day" is even remotely similar to the story in Joker? The story is based upon him being abused as a child (causing his laughing disorder, I'm not sure if this was as blatantly obvious as I thought it was, but the Killing Joke references seem to indicate that it's not) and his mother lying to him for most of his life. To boil this story down into one bad day ("or in his case one bad week or so") is idiotic.

    I appreciate the fact that you provided a disclaimer for the people who were unfamiliar with your channel at the beginning of the video, and I tried to give this a chance, but it's clear you were too invested in making some kind of point than following the actual plot of the movie. I'm sorry I had to exit the video so early, I wish you good luck with your channel as I'm sure you're finding an audience, and I hope that your content improves in the future.

  64. Hi. The picture you use at 2:18 is a piece of art drawn by me and I hate that it’s somehow being used as part of the whole “we live in a society” meme thing (and I know that’s not because of you, several of my pieces have been used for it by other people). Is there any way you could please remove the image from this video?

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