Jocko Podcast 222 with Dan Crenshaw: Life is a Challenge. Life is a Struggle, so Live With Fortitude

Jocko Podcast 222 with Dan Crenshaw: Life is a Challenge. Life is a Struggle, so Live With Fortitude

this is Jocko podcast number 222 with
Echo Charles and me Jocko Willing good evening echo good evening someone called
for my Afghan interpreter Rahman a good man with whom we had worked with for
some time these interpreters are the unsung heroes of the wars in Iraq and
Afghanistan they often suffer threats and ostracism for their willingness to
endure the battlefield alongside us their motivation isn’t money there isn’t
enough money to make it worthwhile facing down insurgents who know where
you and your family live they are idealists they work and risk death
because they believe in our common cause of freedom Rahman responded to the call
immediately running before me his foot fell in a particular spot just two feet
away from where I stood I was looking right at him as I later discovered he
instantly lost all his limbs in the explosion even though I was staring
right at him I never actually saw it happen my experience was a series of
tremendous blows and subsequent realizations a train hit me ears ringing
what the fuck was that darkness something is wrong
got hit my legs reach down and see if they’re still there they’re there I feel
them pain everywhere mostly my abdomen something shot through it I think my
eyes must be caked with mud I can barely see anything I hear groaning and
screaming someone hit an ie D pain everywhere but my eyes I crawl around a
little bit mostly to see if my body still functions my teammates make their
way to me I asked someone to pour water on my eyes to remove the dirt so I can
see that doesn’t work I can only see light and in some shapes
must be a lot of dirt I recognized my Corman’s voice as he works on my wounds
I say dude don’t get blown up it sucks he laughs and tells me to shut up
I was conscious throughout our corpsman stopped my bleeding the worst of which
was from my knees and wrapped up my eyes it still did not occur to me that there
was anything wrong with them I could only hear the situation around me my
teammates calling to each other communicating the situation with tense
voices I later found out that a foot wearing the typical Salomon boot that we
all wore hit one of my teammates in the chest about 50 yards away Rahman was
groaning in pain deep deep pain most people’s experience of combat wounds is
from the movies a soldier gets hit his guts spilling out and he looks down at
them screaming in horror but this is not the way it is in reality truly bad
injuries SAP your energy and prevent you from screaming instead the sound of
wounded man makes is a much deeper more visceral emanating from the depths of
his being it’s a groan a cry a moaning that reeks
of utter desperation it is far worse than a scream it is true pain manifested
in the sound this was the sound that Rahman made it is unforgettable
as the quorum intended to me and we waited for the medevac helicopter a
thought entered my head we may be in a firefight any second now Rahman was
barely alive and he would later die in the hospital
our EEO d chief petty officer took a little Fraggle Sol and would be
evacuated with us all hands were needed to fight I could hear the medevac helo
coming in low this was no time to ask someone to carry me blown up and blind I
stood up and walk myself to it Dave warson who would be killed two
months later heroically laid down cover fire for me as I boarded the helo there
was my last memory of him medics onboard the helicopter took one
look at me laid me down and eased me into unconsciousness I woke up days
later far away from Helmand far away from Kandahar far away from my brothers
and arms far away from the war and dust of Central Asia I was brought back into
consciousness in Germany at the American at the American Hospital long store a
breathing tube was being unceremoniously ripped from my throat rather unpleasant
I opened my eyes or thought I did and saw nothing a physician came to me and
told me the truth my right eye was gone my left eye was so heavily damaged that
there was virtually no chance I would see with it again my future was a future of blindness of
darkness of no sight no color no visual beauty I would never see a sunset a
friend a loved one again in one instant in a fatal footfall all that was ripped
away and that right there was an excerpt from
a book called fortitude written by Dan Crenshaw who is a former SEAL officer
and he’s actually been on this podcast before number 118 and the last time he
was on he was in the process of running for Congress well he won and is
currently a congressman serving the 2nd congressional district of Texas in the
House of Representatives and well it’s an honor to have Dan back with us today
to share some of the lessons learned that he talks about in his new book and
once again the name of the book is fortitude Dan thanks for coming back man
hey thank you for having me listen do you read that I was like maybe I should
have asked you to read my book in the audio version that was good
well thanks it’s uh it’s only good because the story that’s being told is
is obviously a very powerful one and you know you sent me this book and as soon
as you sent it to me I started talking to you about let’s get
you back on the podcast obviously you’re a busy man obviously you’re busy man
right now for reference it is what is it it’s March of 2020 in the midst of the
pandemic the corona virus pandemic is going on around the world and around
America there’s schools and again who knows what this will look like looking
back on it when people are listening to sin the future whether if they’re
listening to in a month from now a week from now or years from now it’ll be
interesting what this pandemic turns out to be but you braved the travel we did
we did and we just you know I’m leaving off the heels of that late night vote
again for for listeners trying to put this in context and what you saw in the
news leaving off the heels of that late night vote where where which was for the
economic stimulus that the the president supported and was bipartisan in nature
different from the eight billion plus dollars that we voted on a week prior
which was meant to combat it on a public health scale so you know I it’s every
everybody agrees I think we’ve as a country and as a government we have
taken this particular pandemic more seriously than anything in the past more
than we did for Ebola or for h1n1 and I’ve asked that specific questions to
folks like the assistant Surgeon General Admiral red who have worked all of these
pandemics and so I just hope people realize that that’s not what you hear
from the media you know the media would tell you that it’s so totally unprepared
and you know you’re never going to be perfectly prepared I think that’s a
lesson you and I know pretty well yeah but you learn those lessons and you do
better than next time the finger-pointing has been completely
unnecessary mostly dishonest and totally unhelpful
but the government has been taking it pretty seriously and we’re definitely
taken it seriously in Congress well I’m glad you were able to get out here and
again I think there’s no telling what this will look like in hindsight but
it’s quiet around here in San Diego right now there’s just not a lot of
people doing a lot of stuff obviously we’re we’re in the gym and the gym you
know not a lot not a ton of people coming into gym right now there’s still
people training though don’t worry it worked we’re training that jiu-jitsu but
yeah you sent me the book and you know cracked it open started reading it and
immediately was just you know getting in touch with you to see if we could get
you out here on the podcast to talk about it and man you know the the stuff
that you’ve been through and the lessons that you’ve taken away from it are very
powerful and you know that’s one of the things that struck me out of the gate is
that when you got wounded you actually you actually drew strength from very
powerful place and things that you’ve been through and I want to jump in and
read some more of this um some more of this things that you’ve been through and
I think a lot of people are gonna be able take a lot away from it so I’m
going back to the book this is after you wounded I fought back to another time in
my life two decades earlier the first time I ever witnessed the kind of
inescapable pain that I was feeling now and the grit to overcome it was with my
mother she fought a battle so many other modern women fight breast cancer and she
did so with endurance Grace and optimism her example has never left me and I
wasn’t about to let some cheap-ass AED in the ancient killing fields of
Afghanistan render me unworthy of her memory she was only 35 years old when
she was diagnosed same age as me as I write these words when she got the news
it was one day before my little brother’s first birthday I was five
years old the doctors told her she might have five years to live and they were
right soon after she would be feeling the pain I was feeling now as the cancer
and chemotherapy ripped apart her body in battle she fought it for five years
and when I was ten she died if you’ve ever cared for a loved one in terminal
decline you know what that’s like there is an intensity of loss that is
immeasurable words don’t do it justice the whole deep down in your gut feels
like it will never go away as a child the intensity of the experience is made
worse as grief is amplified by incomprehension going from kindergarten
to fourth grade knowing that your mother is dying that the center of a small
boy’s world is collapsing is an experience I wouldn’t wish on anyone but
from this grief came learning I got to experience the nature of a true hero and
the example she set was the most powerful fortifying and selfless thing I
have scene including combat buying helpless
in a hospital bed I had to wonder whether my mother had asked the same
desperate question I was currently asking would I ever see my family again
I figured that if she could suffer through that question and the unknowable
answer so could I my mother spent half a decade staring death in the face burned
with caring for two small boys whom she would not live to see grow up
she lived day to day in ever-increasing pain the cancer afflicted her and the
cancer treatments afflicted her to six rounds of chemotherapy on top of
radiation treatments are a brutal experience for even the strongest
constitution self-pity is never a useful state but if anyone had reason to feel
sorry for herself and had to complain a bit it was my mom but she never did in
terminal decline and in pain across five years I never heard her complain once I
never heard her bolon her fate I never saw her express self-pity every day she
woke up was a day she was still alive and she lived she was dying and she was
grateful to not be dead yet every extra day was a gift where she could look her
boys in the face every next evening was another night she could tell us she
loved us before bed even during her last days when the hospital delivered her
deathbed and hospice nurse to our dining room her demeanor did not change Susan
Carol Crenshaw was exactly the opposite of what she had every right to be brutal yeah yeah that was more for my
mom than for me you know I tell that story because well that the name of that
chapter is perspective from darkness and perspective I think is something we lack
in our modern-day society we are I think too many people are willing to jump to
this false conclusion that you’ve had it the worse that your life is worse than
your ancestors or than your peers or than anybody else walking around America
right now and there’s just a really just so happens there’s a really good chance
that’s not true I’m not saying it’s not true I’m just
saying there’s a pretty good chance that’s probably not true it’s
interesting too I always talk about perspective from a leadership
perspective which means hey if I’m looking at one of my troops the better I
understand their perspective on what I’m telling them and what their job is and
what the mission is the better I’m gonna be able to lead them and same thing with
my boss the better I understand my boss’s perspective and what the strategy
looked like and what’s the overall thing he’s trying to get accomplished the
better I understand his perspective the better I’m gonna be able to lead and
it’s interesting cuz when you put that across society you would think that in
today’s day and age with the a bit with social media with the ability to absorb
as so many other people’s perspectives you’d think that that would open up your
mind yeah to realize that that there’s you know a lot of other people that that
have been through much worse than then anything I’ve even been close to gone
through yeah and yet it doesn’t seem to be happening that way no and I mean one
of the most popular stories for an American to hear you know is is a story
of overcoming adversity and that’s a good thing I’m glad those are still the
the stories that are the most popular in the American psyche you know that a
movie about somebody who’s downtrodden and overcomes it it’s still a good movie
but there there is it’s undeniable that there is this fragility
is infecting America and that’s that’s why I wrote this book and it’s um you
know it’s not a political book it’s not a sealed book it’s not a it’s it’s a
cultural book it’s it’s a cultural philosophy book and it’s it’s it’s
simultaneously an individual kind of self-help book and just how to be
mentally tougher in your own individual life but there are much broader cultural
implications that are strewn throughout the book it is a it is a culture book
and because I fear that we are getting more sensitive more more prone to
microaggressions and prone to saying how offended you are and wearing wearing
that offense on your sleeve proudly and and and this gets to the I think what’s
the the next chapter which is who is your hero and we’ve changed what we look
up to like we think that it’s good to to scream about how offended we are that’s
becoming like a a moniker of a good thing you know it’s interesting as as
you know before we started recording you know we’re just talking about kind of
life in the games and and if there’s one thing that you never do in the teams and
ever is show anyone that you’re offended by anything that you’re saying to you
because if you allow that to happen you know you’re gonna get torn apart whereas
it seems like and I hadn’t thought about from that perspective the all the rage
in the public right now is if you can possibly get offended by something then
it’s you’re you’re the you’re the best thing in the world you know jump up and
down and point to the person that offended you and why you were offended
and and the more offended you are the better off the aggrieved victim status
is supreme these days and that’s a and that’s more of a serious problem than
then I think most Americans are giving it credit for like it’s a really bad
thing because you’re changing you’re changing our heroes and and when I say
heroes I want to want to be more specific cousin and I outlined this in
the book in greater detail I don’t mean like Jaco is my hero I don’t actually
and I person when people asked me about who I look up to and my heroes I I will
tell them attributes of people that I think are respectable
don’t think you should have one person that you look up to I don’t think that’s
totally healthy and that’s not what I’m talking about in the book I’m talking
about hero archetypes you know in an archetype is a is a is a broader set of
ideas or attributes that we sort of that we sort of recognize collectively okay
that’s it’s more of a psychological term than anything else and there are certain
hero archetypes you know like the Navy SEALs have a hero archetype when we
write about that in our in our SEAL ethos it’s such a beautifully written
ethos and I and I have the entire thing written in the book because it perfectly
demonstrates what we believe we should be now what we should do but what we
should be and that’s a really interesting thing and I and I and I know
that you look at a corporate ethos and if you go to people like corporations
websites and you read them there they’re usually something like we want to be the
number one manufacturer on the west coast it’s like that’s not who you want
to be that’s just something you want to do if you if you write out an ethos of
who you want to be you can you can reach that level of elitism you can surpass
mediocrity so that’s important that’s important thing is here is that we have
societal hero archetypes that we look up to Jesus is a is a hero archetype
Superman is a hero archetype real characters too you know I put I could
name a thousand you know Rosa Parks Ronald Reagan these all of these people
embody certain attributes that the American people think this is good okay
man we generally agree on these things I tell the whole story in the book about
about when I was at Disney World or was it Disneyland it was Disney World and I
was at the Star Wars land and I was watching this really cool thing happened
where they where they let these kids do Jedi training and of course like in
typical Disney fashion everything is really well run the actors are
absolutely amazing and they’re teaching these kids you know how to work their
swords and all that but they’re also teaching them really cool things like
just little Jedi lessons like like will you let your emotions be driven by hate
and anger you know like really simple because we look up to the Jedi as like a
hero archetype and so there are certain things that are just viewed as good but
that’s changing and I and I find that to be an extremely dangerous thing because
we’re the aggrieved victim the person who talks about being offended the most
and who screams the loudest were elevating that person to a higher level
in our society and that’s dangerous you’re flipping cultural norms on their
head and you do that at your own peril you know and ends you know cultural
foundations based in thousands of years of trial and error and wisdom those are
important they’re more important than people realize and like that’s that’s
that’s frankly what the first I guess well that that particular chapter is
about perspectives chapter you know they’re all related of course but the
perspectives chaffed and the reason I bring up my mom and the reason I tell
that story and then subsequent stories of of other guys that we’ve lost is
because you you need to it’s healthy to go through life thinking you know what
somebody has hard had it harder than me and I’d like to live up to their memory
I’d like to live up to that hero attribute the hero that are the hero
archetype of my mother and I’m not lying she never complained she just never did
and if she did I didn’t hear it as a kid and so when you’re living in blindness
and not sure whether you will see again it’s healthy to have that in your head
and I mean I say you don’t have to uh you don’t have to experience a bomb in
your face to get some perspective but you can read about it and it’s like you
said earlier in a world where we’re so connected and we can see everybody
else’s story of hardship you would think that we would have more perspective but
but it seems that the opposite is true and first steps of reversing that trend
I think is to at least realize it yeah we we recently had on Rose Schindler who
was a house where it’s survivor and I got many many many messages and comments
coming back saying yeah myself in check you know I I don’t have
it that bad so that and yet we’ve had many people on
here that have been through some really hellacious things whether it’s prisoner
war camps just devastating situations and it is it’s it’s it if they weren’t
here to here I get the feeling sometimes that if people weren’t hearing it here
they wouldn’t be hearing it they wouldn’t be hearing it you know they’d
just be thinking that everyone is living better than they are and they’re the
ones that are in the worst possible situation in the world we’ve got yeah
that’s a you know I don’t bring it too much to politics but it is it is it is
one reason that we that we have lurched into this conversation about socialism
because fundamentally socialism is as an ideology that pits people against each
other you have to believe that somebody else is oppressing you and that they
have it better than you for you to embrace socialism it is it is envy it is
the ultimate sin manifested into a political ideology not the ultimate sin
but it’s one of them and that’s I was I’m always looking for the deeper reason
as to why something is happening and it is natural for for people to want to
believe that something outside their own power is fact is affecting their lives
because if it’s you if it’s your fault if it’s you who has to step up that’s
harder it’s much easier to believe that there’s something else it also is an
assault on your ego when you look at yourself and you say well I guess I’m
the one that messed this up yeah it is and that’s that’s a devastating
psychological consequence when your ego is hurt that way it is yeah I wrote a
book about that called extreme ownership it’s good but again it’s it’s one of
those things where you know you wrote this book as you know as you’re saying
like a cultural philosophy you know life and I wrote extreme ownership as well as
leadership principles but I mean it well it didn’t take but two seconds for
everyone to say oh yeah what you’re talking about is you know easily
transforms into a into a cultural philosophy of taking ownership and
responsibility for what’s going on in your
absolutely there’s no doubt about it and you find yourself in the lot in light
and look do people get cancer yes people get cancer to do horrible things happen
to people to families yes absolutely how do you respond to those things is the
question how do you take ownership of what you do next and and that’s the
that’s the big difference and if what you do next is is you know say it’s out
of my control and I can’t do anything and your get the mentality that you’re a
victim of what’s happening around you that means you’re not gonna make any
changes to transform your life and move in a more positive direction it’s just
the way it is and you know I think I think one of these things that happens
with you know these ideas behind socialism in America and again it’s it’s
like crazy that we would be sitting here talking about this anybody that anybody
that reads anything about history knows that this is just not good but you know
it comes across always as hey well what we want to do is help everyone out
that’s what we want to do we want to help everyone out and okay if that’s
like the core belief and this is where I think sometimes we could do better or
you know someone like myself could do a better job explaining to people look if
you care about other human beings so much if you want to help as many people
as possible in this country the best possible thing you could do is allow the
market to flourish allow people to build businesses that’s what you that’s what
changes people’s lives that that’s what helps not get giving them a handout and
making them reliable or a reliant on the state right it doesn’t help anybody it
helps them for a week you know it helps them for that pay period but it doesn’t
help them transform their lives into something more positive when one way I
explained that exact sentiment is to ask someone to imagine how they would raise
their kid if they love their kid you know would you give them whatever they
want would you would you tell your kid that whatever they do wrong it’s it’s
not their fault somebody else made them do it wrong would you tell them that
there’s no consequences for their actions would you tell them that if they
do an hour of chores and their sibling does three hours
that they deserve the same reward and would you teach them any of these things
there is no liberal who would teach at their kids these things they don’t
because they love their kids and they want their kids to be successful but
that’s effectively what we’re teaching what we’re saying that we should teach
our citizens and so I ask people why don’t we treat our citizens the way we
treat our kids as if we loved them because that’s true compassion it
doesn’t mean we don’t have a social safety net right and that’s always the
counter-argument it’s a disingenuous counter-argument well the
counter-argument to that is look with your kids
and this is an example that I use when I especially when I’m talking to
businesses so I say listen like what will be with a start-up right that’s
grown from you know they were ten people then there are hundred people now
they’re getting to that threshold and I say listen at some point you’re gonna
have to put some discipline on what’s going on inside of your company you’re
gonna have to have people come to work and that aligned times you’re gonna have
to have them eat lunch at certain times not just like you’re gonna have to
you’re to have to have meetings and that are scheduled and look when you’ve got a
company of twelve people you can get away with all that stuff there and it’s
great there’s money coming in and everything’s but as soon as you start to
grow well you have to start to have discipline inside your organization
right and so the example I give people is I say listen have you ever met a kid
that when he’s when he’s born look when a when a child is born you give whatever
they want you got to keep them alive right there’s your social state like you
have to give them food water milk you have to get you have to feed them you
have to take care of them if you continue to do that when they’re three
four five well by the time they’re ten you actually now have Satan for a child
yeah because this kid is totally out of control
do demanding doesn’t it not only is totally demanding but doesn’t know how
to do anything for themselves can’t make them solve the sandwich can’t tie their
own shoes it can’t do anything so what you have to do is you have to let people
fend for themselves you have to let kids brush up against the guardrails of
failure you you have to do that and yes you have to do that with society as well
in my opinion and that’s what that’s what the thing the argument that I don’t
hear back at people that are saying hey we should give everything away for free
is listen for that we don’t have enough to give away everything for free right
the best way that you can take care of the most amount of people is to allow
freedom allow individual freedom allowed people to pursue goals allow people to
pursue business allow people to grow things and hire people that’s how you
that’s how we all win it’s so it’s crazy to me that we still have these
discussions and it’s also yeah it’s crazy to me that we’re having these
discussions right now like this there’s like this belief that they subscribe to
which is if only politicians want so mean and corrupt you know there’s all
these things hidden that we could just give you but they don’t want to and I
most like does that really sound right like this is that does that really sound
like that’s that’s correct that was just all just extra money just hidden in the
in the in the Treasury that we could just give out what we don’t want to that
everybody that we have all these luxury apartments that we could just give out
you know because housings are right or whatever or that or that there’s just
enough doctors and hospitals to take care of everyone and they’re just kind
of waiting around like not you know I mean like come on you know it’s it’s not
if something if it sounds too good to be true it most certainly is and again it
doesn’t mean that we don’t want to keep striving for a you know broader access
to health care it doesn’t mean that we want to keep don’t want to keep striving
for a or efficient social safety net not saying that but the but they lurch to
the to the progressive left and socialism is it’s it’s it’s based upon
this idea that that we’re keeping something from you and it’s just not
true it’s based on this idea to that that that where do I want to go with
this it’s it’s kind of like a constant escalation of crisis and it’s it’s it’s
not surprising that we got there okay and this is what I mean by that if
you’re a progressive you’re generally wanting more progress right change for
the sake of change itself is often the case and you have to promise more things
than you did last time right because fundamentally
it’s it’s it’s based in the sense of compassion you know giving people things
from the government they don’t think very much they don’t think much more
about what that does to the foundation of the creation that you talked about
it’s just giving me four more things and it’s almost like they relied on
conservatives for the last hundred years to at least to at least be an obstacle
to their to their worst instincts right because the goods conservatives are the
ones who say okay hold on like ease think of the second third order
consequences of that think of what that does to our foundations
when I say foundations I mean foundations of a free-market system that
creates all this wealth in the first place like you can’t you can’t just you
can’t remove the legs of the stool if you want to improve the stool I get it
let’s work on that but don’t remove the legs of the stool it’ll just fall same
with our political foundations same with our cultural foundations there’s three
groups that are very important we can I could go on for hours about this but but
I’ll try and stay on top on this line of thought here and so you promise more
things and you promise more things and eventually you’re like running out of
things to promise and you’ve got to be bolder and bolder and bolder this is how
you get socialism well-intentioned liberalism always leads to socialism it
takes years but it happens we’re at that point now okay like the the the the
well-intentioned liberals maybe the the the smarter you know Democrats that
Republicans have often worked with who I think always over-promised but know full
well that the Republican colleagues will sort of measure the the policy and I
don’t think they believe it themselves frankly but they’ve created a generation
that does believe it this is where we’re at right now the AOC s of the world are
true believers and they’ve got a lot of followers this is what happens when this
this lie of compassion gets told too many times a generation starts to
actually believe it and this is the situation we’re in now this is why 70
percent of the Millennials surveyed will say they would vote for a socialist now
there’s good news and bad news associated with the number like that
they don’t always define socialism correctly which is good yeah true and
also I was having a conversation with someone about
this is a day I mean in 1968 how many 20 year olds would have said they would
have voted for socialism it probably probably 70 percent as well yeah you
know there was a socialist candidate I can’t remember the name right now but I
just saw this quote and it was so interesting because that socialist
communist candidate back then in the 60s basically said what I just said you know
you’ve got a I can’t remember the exact quote but it was something along the
lines of the the the elements of liberal policy are there to eventually create
the fabric of socialism for us it’s like it’s then that is exactly what happens
it happens a little bit at a time and here’s another way of thinking about it
that I help people understand okay so you want to raise the minimum minimum
wage okay and you want to raise it to 15 bucks an hour or 20 bucks an hour and
that’s fine there’s it’s guaranteed that you will lose jobs when you do that
that’s it’s guaranteed okay and so you lose jobs and depending on how much you
raise it in the cost of living in that area you’ll lose a certain number of
jobs okay well the the well-intentioned liberal
and government who wants to control the economy says well we don’t want to lose
the jobs okay we’ll just make people hire more just make make the employers
hire more people okay fine so you make them hire more people but they still
have to pay that minimum wage well their costs haven’t changed and they’re their
overall budget hasn’t changed so so now what well then they have to raise prices
right raise prices Jasta cailli well now there’s hyperinflation and that’s not
good and also the poor people can’t afford the things that they want to buy
so that’s not good okay well just make them lower the
prices look we’re going out of business okay just take over the business so now
you own the means of production and I’m not saying it happens that quickly but
that’s how it happens like there’s there’s there’s oh there’s a logical
line there well that well-intentioned first step of intervening in the markets
has consequences and eventually if you want to control it well you have to
really control it and then you’re in a really bad place because then you’re
then you then you’re actually controlling productions when you do that
then you’re in a place called Venezuela yeah
and that isn’t turning out so well all right little tangent right there hi
well it’s actually I go into this huge discussion about the minimum wage in the
book yeah not because because this actually
relates to mental toughness because the way I relate it in the book is part of
being part of having fortitude part of being mentally tough is having the
ability to think through some questions before you react emotionally very simple
and I’m pretty sure I think I think that example is used in the chapter called be
still and and I mean that quite literally just be still when you hear
something that is emotionally triggering or you disagree with think about that
this notion that there might be another side to the story like just maybe if you
just ask some questions and at first again the minimum wage it seems like the
right thing to do like how people should just get paid more I want them to get
paid more they should so I just give the arguments in there like there’s economic
arguments and there’s geographical arguments by that I mean you know why
would you have a federal minimum wage that’s the same for the entire country
when in San Francisco the the rent is thirty five hundred dollars a month and
in Lubbock Texas seven hundred dollars a month you know does that that really
quickly makes the case against a federal minimum wage not saying that each city
can’t do their own thing then I go into the economic arguments of who’s actually
working a minimum wage jobs the point isn’t to make the argument against the
minimum wage the point is to get you to understand that this issue like many
many other issues and questions has many many layers to it and if you stop and
you think first assume those layers exist right
then the next step is look into the layers and there might be more to it and
when you do that you are exhibiting mental strength you’re exhibiting the
ability to not react but to just ask questions and like I have a feeling I’m
just a feeling that the the people really angrily waving those $15 minimum
wage signs have not looked into the our treatments yeah but they’re passionate
yes really um you know I at our factory up in Maine you know this is a class
thing like sometimes you need more people to load boxes and who do you get
who do you who do you get to load box this is an unskilled job like hey we
just need you to move by it’s not even loading by it’s moving boxes from here
in the warehouse to where they’re gonna get loaded on trucks to get take shipped
out you know you know who wants that job a kid that’s a 16 years old that you
know does needs gas money and he’s gonna work that job two hours a night whatever
and make a little bit of cash on the side that’s cool we can afford to do
that at that our business the minute you say hey instead of paying that guy 10
bucks an hour you got to give him $16 an hour
well now it’s guess what we’re gonna take we’re gonna just take some of our
other labor and have them fill in you know half an hour your half an hour
there and all of a sudden with you’ve eliminated three jobs that the overall
budget of the business does not change just because you changed the minimum
wage but there’s this like belief and again you know it’s I’m always amazed by
how little pockets put into some of these you know feel good policy policy
proposals like as if there’s no second third order consequences to these things
and like you just you have to think through that we just have to that would
be nice all right let’s get back to the book I’m
gonna take you back to the you just did you just deep reef the entire book we
descend now all right so here we go awake now in long stool I could not move
I was beaten and for the moment physically broken
I was riddled with shards and debris under under the skin and deep within I
was swollen badly suffering from a thousand small cuts everything burned
and itched though oddly enough I don’t recall any pain in my eyes I said before
that I woke up unable to see but this was not entirely true I could see I
could not see my surroundings true but I was certainly seeing I was surrounded by
constant hallucinations the result of my optic nerve still communicating
erratically with my brain the hallucinations were lucid and all
followed a pattern I was in Afghanistan I was with the guys I was in an Afghan
village mud walls and compounds there was an Afghan man sitting next to me
there were piles of weapons in the corner I lived my previous experiences I
lived my previous experiences over and over again I knew it wasn’t real I was
hallucinating but not delusional if I was awake I was seeing these images if I
was lucky enough to fall asleep and dream never more than 30 minutes then I
would wake up and still wake up still inside the visual reality of the dream
that sounds insane that was that was that was insane now was some of that it
was some of that drugs that you were you on were you on any drugs that were
giving you hallucinations no or this was just all your optic nerves communicating
and there’s there’s some I research this you know later in life and there’s
there’s some history of this happening to people who go suddenly blind that
that optic nerve voles continue to do that it couldn’t have been drugs I mean
the only drugs I was on or painkillers and the wouldn’t wouldn’t have that
effect there was just some weird things that was it was it was so weird
and and kind of terrifying and it just it just it amplified the whole
experience because I knew it wasn’t real I knew it wasn’t real there was but I
would I would always see them there and I would talk about them and so you know
the stranger stories are from my my friends there’s a couple seals who came
to me with Lance to Landstuhl which was it’s such a enormous blessing you know
you can’t even describe how important it is for somebody in that state to just
have somebody they know or at least somebody they kind of trust it doesn’t
even have to be a team guy you know it could just be somebody who understands
you just there and I remember this old Afghan man sitting next to me and it was
always like a weird blue light like it was it was it really was like I’m could
dream out of the movies you know we’re like a band and his face would be kind
of melting I just remembered that very specifically I don’t remember all the
hallucinations but I and I always remember piles of weapons it was really
like we were I was remembering the moments which were so many because we
would always do two to three day ops on that particular deployment
and so we’d holed up in some compound they knew it you know it’s like a you
know are all the guys are just in this tiny little room together shooting the
shit and our weapons are kind of strewn throughout and that’s what I would see I
was just seeing that experience all the time the mud walls and one particularly
weird dream I and I think I do describe this in the book it’s uh I was I was
like I was in a third world country and like in a department store you know like
going through a very crowded department store not with people but with clothes
like they’re like there did they you know cuz in like a lot of these
countries they’d just it’s not like Walmart you know where you can
comfortably walk through things like they pack too much stuff in because they
don’t have that much space but they got a lot of stuff and they pack it in there
and I’m just like trying to move through these clothes and it’s like musty and
the lights are fluorescent like again like this is just a very thorough bold
country kind of scene you know couldn’t say where it was but I’ve been to a lot
of third-world countries so my mind is used to this sort of visualization and
then I woke up and I know I’m awake but I’m still there that’s what really
sucked to not be able to leave the nightmare
like I was literally living in a nightmare and we always used the word
literally wrong in our modern-day society I’m not using it wrong I was
literally living in the nightmare and like it was inescapable not that’s what
sucks because like you just couldn’t you couldn’t shake it and that that’s all
this was just a horrible place to be it finally went away when a nurse an astute
nurse an observant nurse just realized what was going on and she started asking
us about it and my wife is just like kind of exasperated at this point she
wasn’t my wife then but she was you know fiance then and she’s just you know
exhausted and like just trying to deal with this and I think it was like I
think it was like right after my first surgery or maybe right before I don’t
remember but she was just like how long has this been going on and we’re like
the whole time like ever since I woke up you know so days and maybe a week I’m
not really sure um she’s like that’s not good you should
mean her response was like you will have a reparable PTSD if this continues you
know because like you just living in a nightmare is not a great place to be
it’s just and and so she shot me up with a bunch of ativan which was like it’s
it’s a hard anti-anxiety drug and then then it got really weird
then the hallucinations chained didn’t go away right away they changed to
Christmas so I was like in a I was like in like a like a Rudolph the red-nosed
reindeer Christmas world this is what you’re seeing yeah even though you can’t
see anything this is what you see yeah it’s very Christmas world it’s very
vivid it’s not like when you close your eyes and imagine things it’s like it was
vivid the Christmas rolled was cool that’s cool yeah it was more relaxing it
was like it was happier um and then it went black and then black
black was the best that was that was good it was like you would know you
would never think that you’d be happy to be blind but like that was that was a
good it was necessary I could finally take a nap going back to the book here
Tara this is your fiancee at the time Tara was there when I finally arrived in
Bethesda and never left my side from that moment on most of my family came up
to see me as did many friends they were far more worried than I was and their
spirits were low this was most likely due to the fact that they were mentally
coherent enough to sense the pessimistic expectations of my surgeons the doctor
did not think I would see again they said so many times and I simply didn’t
believe them my optimism my self-deception and my belief that the
coming surgery on my left eye would work and that I would see was nothing less
than a delusional gift that allowed me to keep my sanity though I am NOT one
for overt expressions of faith I will say this I genuinely believe God’s
strength was working through me then he was allowing me to believe something
impossible I prayed and my family prayed and we believed
we believe that the military surgeons would pick through a pierced and
shrapnel ridden I removed the most miniscule shards and debris and then
restore my sight we did not have good reason to believe it but we did it’s
interesting that you call this self-deception and delusional that yeah
it sounds like everyone else was just like hey man you know losing a good horn
yeah it really stops a obviously that’s exactly right it was it was a necessary
self delusion and again I was like I don’t know why that was it’s in that’s
why I say Adam could have it had to been God God saying you know I can’t I’m not
gonna save your eye for you bud lorelei insurgents to do that but I’ll at least
allow you to believe that it’s possible because otherwise you’re gonna go to
nuts and again it’s it’s I I think Mike you know whatever you want to call it
post-traumatic growth afterwards is is a function of being able to to live
through the experience a certain way because it’s terrifying to think that
you might not see again that’s terrifying and you know and I and I’m
again because that that chapter is called perspective from darkness there
are other veterans who immediately lost both eyes they had no chance of seeing
again that’s hardship I didn’t have to deal with that you know after somebody
else has had it worse than you always remember that even when you get blown up
in the face yeah the doctors and that continued it wasn’t just being able to
see anything again it was being able to see well again I was demanding I was
demanding the first surgery so the first surgery for my left eye my right eye is
gone my right eye was gone in Kandahar they happen to be an ophthalmologist
there that enucleated the eye right away they do that early on so that your body
will focus on the eye that’s you know possibly savable but the right eye was
so screwed up and I wish that pictures of it and that’s kind of gruesome but
you know and people don’t want to take pictures of you in that because they’re
like that’s not good to take pictures of you
but but uh you know keep in mind that the person might want those pictures
later on that it’s people don’t realize his kirsty edison and she got you know
she got in the helo crash in afghanistan and you know she’s a beautiful girl and
she had pictures of her face where 50 cal like the way that the helo went down
I mean it it did some massive damage to her face and she has pictures of it and
look at the pictures and you can’t believe that you know she was able to
recover the way she did it’s amazing but you know she’s a marine and I will say
that she’s much aligned with your feelings on this I think she’s pretty
stoked that she has those pictures of herself all jacked totally took those
pictures though was it the kind like Oh after they got into like the medical you
know what actually I think it was I think it was if you remember her story
there was some a really good plastic surgeon like a bright red the ladies
version and female plastic surgeon that I think was probably like oh I’m gonna
document this yes he’s so there’s a difference between that and then like
something like a wait guys and busts up the phone and start taking bitches like
which is what you think the team guy would do and I think I would obviously
go all cool check out fans are there I I’m gonna get some snacks to this and we
got some you know so I’ve only got one picture but it’s a good week out I mean
it’s not it’s at least a few days like it’s um there’s some healing that has
taken place but I look bad like it looks like a shock it looks like I’d hit in
the face with a shotgun that’s what my face looks like it’s show it to you
right now if you really want to see it just so you can react to it I’ve never posted it because it’s a
little it’s a little too gruesome for posting blurry doubt but the option yeah
the well not I kind of lost my train of thought well yeah so you get that you
get the surgery in the book you talk about they removed the broken lens yes
oh no copper wire that was in there right bunch of other debris
so hallucinations stop and then then your six weeks they got to
put you in a position for six weeks to recover right so there’s a couple things
that happened here that’s the picture oh you know that’s about a week after so
there’s there’s some healing there but it’s not looking great it’s yeah that’s
rough so damn Yeah right eyes gone left eye has a as a cataract meaning the lens
which is in the middle of your eye is is destroyed cataracts are pretty normal
thing for older folks to get you know just basically means the lens has kind
of I don’t know the right term is but kind of clouds over you need to replace
it in my case it was trauma induced so just bunch of fragments burst through
the eye and destroyed the lens you can kind of look at a lens like a window
alright and this is an important way of thinking about it because if it clouds
over if that windows just you can’t see through it anymore we’ll just replace
the windowpane but if the blast destroys the window then you’re trying to so a
new window pane onto basically the curtains which are like the scelera of
your eye and that was sort of the situation I was dealing with so the
first miracle was they removed the lens entirely so okay so that things out
because I remember this I think I think it was in Landstuhl I sort of remember
them shining a really bright light my eye just to see if I could see light and
I could see some light when they did that what I saw was like darkness but
there was like a light almost like we’re in this room right now and there’s this
bright light above our heads it’s kind of like that but everything else was
like a cloud like like being like on an air but like imagine you’re like going
through a cumulus cloud as you’re taking off like that’s what it looks like very
odd and strange and again so the first miracle this in a battle you know maybe
a week later when I finally got back to the Bethesda we did the surgery they
removed the big copper wire that had really been destroying my eye so that’s
good and so we kind of start to see some blurriness after that you know which is
kind of what I see now as I look at you now I’m wearing a contact and without if
I took this contact out I wouldn’t wreck nice you I don’t know wouldn’t know I
wouldn’t run into things necessarily but I can’t see anything you know it’s it’s
it’s I mean I well it’s like you know twenty one thousand vision it’s I can’t
really see anything it’s just it’s just blurry can’t see clothes can’t see far
can’t find my glasses if I lose them the glasses I do have four like that thick
that’s what I wear at night or on airplanes or you know if I don’t feel
like wearing a contact so that never goes away but at the time I wanted it to
go away like I wanted to be like no just make the eye better doctors why can’t
you just do that cuz I got a I got places to be okay and they’re like yeah
do you you know it was like I was like yeah I mean I was like okay so you just
did this surgery remove the cataract now I want a new lens so that I don’t have
to wear like Contacts and glasses because I don’t look cool in these
glasses right I’m not a fan and uh you know I don’t really have to contact
situation yet and and I actually wouldn’t for two and a half years it
would take to get a really good contact that’s actually comfortable and so I was
like just just do the surgery and they’re like well and I’m they’re like
we really shouldn’t and I was like okay what’s the how much do we have to wait
to do the surgery you know what’s the what’s the minimum time cuz I need to
have it as soon as possible because you know I got to get back to the platoon
I’ve got a I’ve got to go back and they’re like well I mean I guess
technically six weeks I’m like six weeks it is and like I couldn’t see them at
the time but they’re looking at each other like what the hell are you talking
about like this isn’t you don’t understand what your situation is it’s
like they were just I mean and my wife tells me all this now cuz I couldn’t see
them and I couldn’t I wasn’t self-aware enough to gauge
people’s reactions I was in you know totally different state of mind I was on
a lot of painkillers and drugs and so you know and and and just like full-on
seal mode layer get the job daughter must get back to platoon kill bad guys
and it’s just like wasn’t making sense to people like they were just like I
don’t know what’s wrong with this guy and so they just kind of humored me I
think like they’re just like yeah sure and we’ll definitely definitely do that
but they would have no and no intention of doing it for good reason and then and
then what you’re talking about the six weeks blindness that occurred later
so at least miracles happened and like we saved my eye and that was really
exciting but then they you know but they’re but they’re looking at it every
day and they do this one test and they see this hole in my retina so that’s not
a big deal because it’s just just a hole you know it means there’s some blind
spots and as I look at you I can kind of see the blind spot it’s like right in my
face an own but I deal with it it’s annoying when I read frankly the problem
with that is your retina the anatomy of your retina causes that hole to expand
there’s a film there’s like a it’s like a membrane on the back of your retina
that creates tension and so anytime there’s a hole in your retina that means
the hole will just expand slowly so it’s macular degeneration this again this
happens with older folks quite a bit the way to fix that is remove the membrane
we’re not really sure why the membranes on there in the first place and so you
just remove the membrane and then you’re good all right but and that’s fine
that’s actually pretty normal surgery but for me it was a really high-risk
surgery because you know my eyes so fragile and so they’re worried about the
retina detaching luckily it did not you know because well who knows why again
God’s intervention and but you do have to be face down for six weeks to recover
from that so that was just just suck you had to lay face down the entire time for
six you have the latest face down because what they do is they they inject
this gas into your eye and that creates a bubble which creates tension so and if
the bubble is meant to be pressed up against your retina to keep it in place
the only way for it to press up against your retina is for you to be looking
down and so you just look just sucks you just have to be face down doesn’t
matter how you’re doing it just lay down or walk facedown or whatever it is but
just make sure you’re facing down for six weeks and you’re blind the whole
time most of the time they’ll do this like
one eye at a time so if somebody can see still but you know I’m not a one eye at
a time kind of guy anymore you get past that you say when the six
weeks were over I sat up and I was not blind moreover with the help of a truly
remarkable contact lens from Boston sight to which the Navy referred me
years later I was eventually returned to 20/20 correct hole vision in my left eye
that’s the story of being blown up I can’t say I recommend the experience yet
even as it was happening even in the moment after the blast I had to admit it
could have been worse I still had my legs I had my arms I had ten fingers and
ten toes my brain worked even after a severe concussion I was still alive it
is impossible not to constantly think of the many veterans who have sacrificed so
much more impossible not to think of Seale Petty Officer second class
Mike Mansoor who threw himself on a grenade while on a rooftop in Ramadi in
Iraq 2006 saving his teammates impossible not to think of Air Force
Master Sergeant John Chapman who fought all night against the Taliban coming in
and out of consciousness from his wounds eventually succumbing to them on that
Afghan Ridgeline but only after earning the Medal of Honor for saving 23
servicemembers impossible not to think of my platoon members and dear friends
Dave warson and Pat fix who were killed just two months after I was evacuated
from Helmand impossible not to think of their loved ones who had been expecting
them home a month later impossible not to think of the eight men whose initials
are tattooed on my chest in remembrance Charles Keating the fourth Patrick fix
Dave warson Brad Kavner Brett Mary you Kevin Evert Brendan
Looney and Tom Falc this is the simple reality others have
had it harder than me many many others from that darkness comes realism from
that realism comes gratitude from gratitude comes perspective a healthy
sense of perspective is an antidote to outrage is an antidote to self-pity
despair and weakness it’s not a cure-all for your mental state when faced with
adversity but it is sure to dull the edges of your worst tendencies toward
mental breakdown yeah that’s the that’s the perspective that you and I already
talked about today that perspective that it would be seemed like it would be very
helpful for people to think about it is and you know I’m using extreme examples
right not everybody can relate to that but they don’t have to and I don’t I
don’t want you to go be in a terrible situation just to earn some perspective
right like but just the simple reminder to yourself that it exists like somebody
else has had it harder that’s there’s a comfort in that I think and it is an
antidote to self-pity self-pity is a gateway to the outrage culture that I
think we see all around us and so that is a gateway to the socialistic
tendencies I think that we’ve been seeing as of late and you can avoid
these things with some perspective and gratitude and you know it’s it’s again
it’s it’s hard for anybody the teams to ever feel sorry for themselves when you
know because you know of these guys and you know some of those guys I listed of
course and you know if there’s ever a reason
you need to get up in the morning not at 4:30 but like like later you know get a
normal human time then then the boys who wish they could get up you know that’s a
good reason because they would like to be able to get up and they can’t and
their widows are really wishing they would get up too and they can’t you know
and the Manus where I mentioned unsung heroes but the widows are here the the
heroes of the SEAL Teams III have yet to meet the wife of one of those guys who
fell into self-pity and despair I have only met I only know ones who have
overcome with the greatest grace it’s just amazing I’ve watched these watch
these women just serve as the most ultimate example mothers as well you
know that I know you know like Debbie Lee for instance it’s absolutely it’s
just it’s just incredible to watch that fortitude we just we just couldn’t do it
without them yeah it’s always one of the things about about marks mom and life
and I talk about this a lot is you know when when we called her from Iraq to
talk to her and to console her she was consoling us you know she was wanted to
make sure we were okay she wanted to make sure we were handling think she
wanted to know if we needed anything you know that was her attitude out of the
gate now and that shows you you know the kind of people that you’re talking about
you know someone that’s that’s taking their own personal worst nightmare that
any you know any parent could ever have of losing their kid and immediately
saying well what can I do for you guys yeah it is unbelievable
he’s uh you know it was recent friend good friend I lost was was Chuck Keating
the fourth and you know his his wife started a foundation in his name
his dad as well and his family’s just been incredible but that’s not that
that’s that’s not the exception like that’s been the rule from what I’ve seen
and it’s so much harder to be the family left behind than it is to to be us I
think you know we go and we choose to do this thing overseas and we’re doing it
with our brothers in arms and we love it and we know what’s coming the next day
we we’re in control to an extent to the greatest extent we can be but our family
is not there they’re their life doesn’t change except that we’re just not there
and they don’t know what’s happening and then they get a call and I don’t
actually go into detail and my wife’s experience on the perspectives from
darkness but but you know she gets a call and so her only consolation is that
it’s a call and not a guy at the door but you know it’s a call that she’s
getting before 6 a.m. and before she her alarm goes off to go to work and and
then there’s you know the very typical kind of lack of exact information given
to her she’s not sure what my face looks like because they’re because they don’t
know what my face looks like they’re not sure if it’s still there but my head is
still there like there’s all this misinformation get enough enough
information to just plant seeds of absolute horror it’s horrible and guess
who but but you know who the who you know who went there first was the loony
family row you know it’s like it’s it’s it was it’s Amy Looney their canoe her
husband two years earlier and she’s the one there consoling Tara and it’s just
that that’s the type of community that the SEAL Teams is blessed with and you
know it’s it is it is a true blessing and it’s unique I wish
were broader I wish we could say you know I talked to other friends and other
and other communities that it doesn’t seem it’s not as good and I wish it was
I wish we should all strive to just to take care of each other in that way so
rolling into your next chapter and I haven’t made my caveat that I always
make I’m not reading this whole book right now and so when it skips around
it’s because I’m not reading the whole book you have to buy the book so that
you can hear the whole thing and and then we’re just you know you and I are
going off of a bunch of tangents and which is awesome but you know the book
that has so many great details in it and the stories are so clear and they’re
real personal too so you got to buy the book to get that got to buy the book you
gotta buy the book so the next chapter which you mentioned earlier is called
who’s your hero and I’m gonna jump to this part right here where you talking
about the SEAL Teams it says the SEAL Teams like any like many military units
are relentless in the pursuit of establishing hero archetypes doing so is
extremely important when the goal is to create a monoculture
that operates as a mission oriented team this is a community with a very deep
sense of who we want to be we talk about it all the time and we beat it into our
trainees Jocko specifically into our trainees I did some here’s some of the
things that will be beaten into you you will be someone who is never late you
will be someone who takes care of his men gets to know them and puts their
needs before yours you will be someone who does not quit in the face of
adversity you will be someone who takes charge and
leans when no one else will you will be detail-oriented always vigilant you will
be aggressive in your actions but never lose your cool you will have a sense of
humor because sometimes that is all that can get you through the darkest hours
you will work hard and perform even when no one is watching you will be creative
and think outside the box even if it gets you in trouble you are a rebel but
not a mutineer you are a jack of all trades and master of none and then you
go into the official ethos which you mentioned earlier
I was debating if I should read this and I think I’m actually just gonna read it
it’s a good ethos so here we go in times of war or uncertainty there’s a special
breed of warrior ready to answer our nation’s call a common man with uncommon
desire to succeed forged by adversity he stands alongside America’s finest
special operations forces to serve his country the American people and protect
their way of life I am that man my Trident is a symbol of honor and
heritage bestowed upon me by the heroes that have gone before it embodies the
trust of those I have sworn to protect by wearing the Trident I accept the
responsibility of my chosen profession and way of life it is a privilege that I
must earn every day my loyalty to country and team is beyond reproach I
humbly serve as a guardian to my fellow Americans always ready to defend those
who are unable to defend themselves I do not advertise the nature of my work
nor seek recognition for my actions I voluntarily accept the inherent hazards
of my profession placing the welfare and security of others before my own I serve
with honor on and off the battlefield the ability to control my emotions and
my actions regardless of circumstance sets me apart from other men
uncompromising integrity is my standard my character and honor are steadfast my
word is my bond we expect to be we expect to lead and be
led in the absence of orders I will take charge lead my teammates and accomplish
the mission I lead by example in all situations I will never quit
I persevere and thrive on adversity my nation expects me to be physically
harder and mentally stronger than my enemies
if knocked down I will get back up every time I will draw on every remaining
ounce of strength to protect my teammates and to accomplish our mission
I am never out of the fight we demand discipline we expect
innovation the lives of my teammates and the success of our mission depend on me
my technical skill tactical proficiency and attention to detail my training is
never complete we train for war and fight to win I stand ready to bring the
full spectrum of combat power to bear in order to achieve my mission and the
goals established by my country the execution of my duties will be swift and
violent when required yet guided by the very principles that I
served to defend brave men have fought and died building the proud tradition
and feared reputation that I am bound to uphold in the worst of conditions the
legacy of my teammates steadies my resolve and silently guides my every
deed I will not fail so that’s the seal ethos and
interestingly or if you know where that came from
no I was actually I just thought about that in last three seconds so I was like
I would love to be a fly on the wall as this was getting drafted so it was
written in 2005 a bunch of us went to San Clemente Island I would say there
was maybe 10 or 15 yeah probably 10 or 15 teen guys that
went out to San Clemente Island and made this and made the the other like shorter
one the little the little short SEAL ethos and it was actually part of what
was driving it was in response to before I think was before with what year did
you get to the teams started buds in 2006 yeah okay so in like 2003 2004
there was a platoon that just there was a platoon commander that dyed his hair
he was overseas on deployment dyed his hair blonde had a pierced earring and
was selling drugs to his platoon I mean just a total disaster and then there was
a bunch of other you know look as you know as we know like we’re in the news a
lot and there’s spikes were one of their news for some negative things and so
there was a couple other really negative things that was kind of the peak was
this guy dealing drugs inside of his own platoon and the platoon being a total
disaster and getting disbanded and sent home from deployment
by the way this is like during a time of war so you know the admiral who you know
was a great guy said look we need to do something about this and that’s what so
we went out and the and this is what came out of it I’m looking at I still
remember some little things like there were some things where I was you know a
little bit more a woman I wanted them to be a little bit more aggressive on some
things like yeah I remember I remember I got shut down one of the
lines that I was like no it should be destroy your enemy like that’s what we
do and it didn’t make the cut I think it was in I think it was this part right
here where it says I stand I stand – I stand ready to bring the full spectrum
of combat power to bear in order to achieve my mission and the goals
established by my country my version it was to achieve my mission and destroy my
enemy or destroy the enemies of our country something like that and I got I
got the reins pulled in on me there was there was quite a few but you know I did
all right I mean we got some discipline in there right we did pretty good I love
to see what the chaco version would be yeah you wanted to go more aggressive no
way impossible to believe you know and it’s interesting and one of the reasons
that like a lot of the discussion around it and there were some grand there was a
bunch of great guys out there I mean it was like the Admiral picked guys to go
out there was pretty awesome a great crew of people and at the time
you know it was 2005 like we didn’t really have as much combat experiences
we have you know now which is just awesome but my attitude was like listen
we’re not writing this 405’s right we’re not writing this for SEAL team
commanders or Commodores like this thing should be leveled at the point of aim
point of impact should be an e5 team guys look I know that this guy that was
a was an officer that had this bad platoon but like that’s that’s who not
who were named it we should not have those problems and like that’s yes we
got to handle that but this should be aim point of aim point of impact should
be an e5 team guy that’s that’s needs to understand the ethos and go hey I need
to do the right thing because by the way if you’re in a platoon and you’ve got
squared away he fives they’ll destroy that they’ll they’ll crush that officer
that’s doing dumb things yeah they’ll kill him not kill him literally Vietnam
frag style but they will get him removed you know and you know that’s what will
happen so yeah and I think it hits that pretty well yeah yeah it does pretty
good it does pretty good yeah it’s a great ethos and it was awesome to be out
there when this thing was getting written
and then see it you know I it it’s always interesting to be a part of
things like that that you don’t really know like I mean you don’t run it really
understand what you’re doing at the time you know you’re just trying to get the
job done you’re trying to do a good job but you don’t always know what the
impacts gonna be later when you when you do something like that but yeah it’s an
honor to be out there and make that happen or help make that happen again
there’s a bunch of people out there I was I may very well but know that I
wouldn’t I won’t say was the junior guy but there because there was you know
there was a bunch of Master Chief’s out there a bunch of badass Master Chief’s
here so yeah it’s cool and it’s just it’s so important and I’m gonna stop
jumping ahead on the book now that I understand what we’re doing because I’ve
already yeah I already hit this part pre-brief to you I guess yeah but the
it’s so important for an organization to understand who they want to be and that
was the whole reason I put the seal ethos in there because there’s a deep
cultural mindset that is beaten into us you know quite literally there’s the
more high-minded philosophical approach which is the seal ethos but it does a
good job of relating to the the lowest level guy to but it’s it’s it goes way
beyond the steel ethos I mean there’s so many other lessons that get repeated
like mantras throughout training throughout but it’s about who you are
like what it means to be a guy who wears the Trident like what that really means
and this is simple stuff you know and I listed some of it earlier right left
just don’t quit just be on time like work when no one’s watching you know
it’s like just really simple stuff but it’s like it’s who you better be and you
better be funny okay that’s actually part of our culture harder to be a
better to you guys you better have a really sick sense of humor
and like you better go after each other but it better be funny yeah you know
it’s gotta actually and like we rely on that dark humor in a really fundamental
way that I think it’s maybe maybe a side of us that isn’t as prevalent in all the
books and all the movies but like I like to think we’re pretty damn funny I mean
I’ve been on Saturday Night Live so obviously I’m funny yeah
you know yeah I know a thick skin and you know the ability to verbally spar
with people 24 hours a day from the moment you report in to work the moment
you show up until and any mistake that you make you better you know you you
throw a shot on a you know while you’re shooting you throw a shot and hit
something that you shouldn’t hit or whatever it’s you just sign up for
ridicule because that’s what’s about to happen the greatest thing it really is
you got a bunch of stuff in here that’s you start talking about traits and you
know again it’s what’s what you’re talking about some of the traits of you
must be someone that can take a joke it’s very simple you want to be
productive you want to be someone that makes progress every single day you want
to be someone who identifies a goal and sticks with it again you know what I
like about these is just going back to the earlier conversations if you think
about how you would want your kid to act these are good things this is how you
want your kid act you want to be you want to be seen as reliable you want
people to ask things of you because you have a reputation for getting it done
reliability is an element of force that you want to be you want to have the
ability to delay gratification a mentally tough person can avoid the next
cupcake and save it for later after earning with some exercise you want to
be even-tempered you don’t ever want to lose it emotions don’t drive your
actions you want to be humble you have confidence but not overbearing you want
to be someone that internalizes someone else’s point of view before speaking at
them like these are the kind of things you’re talking about and and you you you
put you say this the question is how do we become the heroes we want to be my
answer sanctioned intellectual property theft
that’s how no one has a patent on good habits you can steal them identify your
heroes and emulate the character traits that make that person more successful
than you currently are and this and this gets into this I love this this is one
of my favorite chapters to write because I love psychology you know Jordan
Peterson’s one of my favorite thinkers out there there’s a lot of psychological
references in this chapter and and then another one too but especially
this one and hero archetypes and we already already hit what I meant by hero
archetypes and that and I just think that’s so important you have to have a
visualization of what you’re looking up to you have to look at yourself in 10
years and think okay that’s that’s how how would that person react to this
situation I should react that way now like you know and it’s hard and this
isn’t supposed to be easy and when I say sanctioned intellectual
property theft it’s like look at the attributes of people you respect you
know like what are they doing like if you want to get to where they’re at just
copy them this isn’t this isn’t rocket science you know if this is an anyone
any of your listeners are like well yeah that’s why I listen to Jack oh you know
yeah who isn’t and you and I were talking about this earlier this idea of
sanctioned intellectual property theft you know extreme ownership is this his
personal response did I did I did I make up personal responsibility in the form
of extreme ownership no I didn’t I didn’t make up the you know discipline
equals freedom I did am I the first person that ever said you know what if
you have discipline in your life you’ll have more freedom I mean it’s in the
Bible like these aren’t things that I old ideas of the best exactly and you
know maybe I worded it in a way that was easier for people to understand or came
at it from a different angle or whatever but the fact of the matter is this
stuff’s out there and these are these these traits that you’re talking about
are just as you were saying earlier it’s like oh we want your kid to not lose
their temper that that’s what you want your kid to be reliable these are really
basic things and yet if you don’t identify them which is your point if you
don’t identify them and you know that’s what in the warrior kid book so I
written these kids books well one of the things in the warrior kid books is first
his uncle who’s a seal teaches him all the different codes mmm all the
different warrior codes from from ancient times till today to the ranger
coat to the seal coat they’re in the book and then he says you need to write
your own code and that’s what he does in the book right says
code of what it means to be a warrior kid and that’s what he lives up to so
same thing you’re saying here yeah it’s in and then again to the discussion
about hierarchies and why that’s kind of an important way of looking at this
because it and also why I said you don’t pick a person to be your hero you pick
many real or imagined characters who who excel in a certain hierarchy and that
that’s an important thing to define there’s different types of hierarchies
like some people excel in a jiu jitsu hierarchy if you want to be good at jiu
jitsu copy this person okay but you don’t
listen to everything they say because they might be all screwed up in some
other way this is right this is it this is a fact yeah but but like you know
follow this leader like there’s something about that leader that I like
and that there’s something that makes me want to follow them what is it I should
identify it I can start to emulate those behaviors one note I made in in in your
book here is uh when you said when you said to do that I have plus bad examples
and in my latest book leadership strategy tactics I had this beautiful
situation unfolding where I had a horrible officer that we had a mutiny
and got him fired and then the guy that took over was the best guy ever and
super humble gave us ownership I mean he was just awesome
but I learned probably as much from the egotistical guy and seeing how we all
reacted to him and seeing how we didn’t want to listen to him we didn’t want to
follow as I learned from the guy that was a just fantastic leader sure so I
look at you know hey here’s here’s I was always pulling the good things from
people but then also looking at people with negative examples and saying okay I
know not to act like that the villains yeah that heroes you got to
have villains and it’s um and and I guess the point of that chapter is is
yeah to remind people of what some of the good attributes are and and to then
to cut and to think consciously about identifying those attributes identifying
yourself as the hero you want to be and then living up to that so that’s that’s
part of it but and but the broader cultural conversation is the fact that
outrage culture is this product of the fact that we have we
have started to looked at the wrong hero archetypes we have started to elevate
attributes that are not heroic at all into a heroic reality and and it’s it’s
not good and it’s sort of that’s the second part of the chapter the wrong
heroes and it’s it’s it’s what we talked about this aggrieved victim status the
the loudest person on the internet the snarky astone on the Internet the one
owning the libs or the cons you know it’s like that one gets the most likes
like it’s its passion over sophistication and these are not good
things I understand that it’s entertaining right I understand the
temptation especially on social media but it’s really detrimental to our
larger conversation you know why should the fists banging activists you know you
know speaking truth to power whatever the hell that means why should that be
the person we listen to just because they’re mad like why why does anger
beget some kind of credibility it doesn’t make any sense but that’s how
we’re acting as a culture it doesn’t make any sense though and like I just
want us to think through that I guess the whole point of the chapter and we’d
be better off if we started to kind of rediscover the heroes that have gotten
us through thousands of years of civilization and again the oldest ideas
are the best ones if people have been talking about certain heroic attributes
for thousands of years there’s really good chance those are good ideas because
they’ve lasted and they’ve gone through trial and error but but like every
generation you know you got it fun when you have to teach those they deals and
and then as a young person you have to stop and think maybe there’s a reason
it’s like this maybe I’m not the first one to think in revolutionary terms you
know like just maybe okay there’s a reason your granddad is telling you it’s
this way and it’s not because he’s just stupid and out of touch like just stop
and like let’s think about that as a possibility
yeah there’s it’s weird with this I would love to try and trace back the
roots of this because one thing I don’t want one time we were on this podcast we
were talking about something and somebody asked a question on a key
and I basically what I said was and I think you turned it into a clip echo
Charles as I was saying like hey you gotta stifle those emotions but don’t
let those emotions out what are you kidding me like you can’t let that show
and the reaction from some people was you know that’s horrible
you should never stifle your emotions they’ll that’ll you be turns into these
whatever the mental problems and all this stuff and I’m like people took what
I said to the extreme which clearly I don’t really believe in anything extreme
that’s why I wrote the book dichotomy of leadership right extreme ownership yeah
yeah yeah well well interestingly you know extreme ownership can be taken too
far and you can have people in leadership positions that go to an
extent where they want to own everything and they don’t decentralize so that’s
why we wrote the dichotomy of leadership because you have to find balance in
everything so with this idea of stifle your emotions look oh if you lose a
loved one I’m not saying you need to write off the whole time right no and
also as a leader in any position if you’re walking around completely stoic
with no emotions you won’t attack you won’t you won’t you won’t connect with
anybody and so you don’t have any personal connections with anybody that’s
not a seal platoon if you’re in a seal platoon and you have no personal
connection with your guys and your platoon you’re not a leader if they
don’t respect you they won’t follow you and I’ve seen that kind of leader yeah
absolutely doesn’t work it doesn’t work so when I say stifle your emotions I’m
talking about your little petty emotions that your guests spawn up about
something yeah that’s what I’m talking about
and you know and especially in my business and like politics it’s like you
realize quickly you’ve got to define what you mean in very clear terms
because everybody’s first reaction is to totally take it out of context or or
just assume the worst of what you meant assume the worst of intentions I go into
the great amount of detail about this in the book too because that that’s that’s
a that’s a big marker of outrage cultures this does need this like desire
to be like just assume the worst of what you meant Oh
stifle my emotions oh okay just walk around like robots of course that’s not
what you meant you know like let’s let’s be gracious
with how we understand each other just like just a just a tad would be a lot
better off next chapter it’s called no plan B which is you know got a little
counterintuitive sound to it because as a seal and as a human being you’re
always like oh you know gotta have a plan B in case something goes wrong
here’s your premise behind behind this you don’t entertain the plan B option
because when you do your entertaining failure and in entertaining failure you
will embrace it ultimately the no plan B mentality isn’t about keeping you from
doing something rather it’s about embracing a positive goal as your only
choice it’s about enabling you to do something it’s about clearing the path
to your goals to your achievements to your tasks and your responsibilities
so you’re explain your idea behind no no Plan B so this this started out as I was
thinking about how not to quit at Budds and and whenever any time I’d ever been
asked that question I would simply say well because I never had a choice
because I just didn’t think about buds as a choice I didn’t think about it as
an achievement that I would you know hopefully make it was just like okay I
just have to do this because that’s just I just have to you know and like and I
think most of us who made it through buds yeah just had that mentality like
okay just I just have to do another boat race and man this really sucks
like I really hate this but I just I just I don’t have a choice you know like
it’s there’s no other option there’s something liberating about that
mentality it’s the only mentality you can have and it is truly a no plan B
mentality so and I’m very Anna and I explained that in the book I’m like I
don’t mean no contingencies obviously you have to plan ahead but no plan B is
fundamentally about not quitting and not quitting needs to be defined rather
carefully you know and i and i point out like changing directions in life could
seem like quitting it’s not necessarily like you’re not a good artist
just stop it’s just not good it’s time to change directions man you know and
that’s okay like that’s that’s okay that doesn’t like you know it’s and then I go
into much deeper converse about living with purpose ultimately
what I mean by living your plan a and not living your Plan B it is about
living with purpose and purpose is something only you can tell really if
you’re living up to it or not it’s hard to tell from the outside but you know
you know if you quit like you know if you just didn’t do the right thing to
live up to your end goal and and and and execute the millions of smaller tasks
that you need to execute to live up to your end goal and I think this is also
the chapter where I really go into some deeper discussions about one of my
favorite quotes from Saint John Paul or Pope John Paul the second which is in
America freedom is is it’s not the right to do what you want but to but to what
the freedom to do what you ought or I’m screwing up that quote a little bit but
the point is this you live with ordered Liberty ordered Liberty means we live
with a purpose we have with freedom and with that freedom we have a
responsibility to live as we ought to live and then we have to define okay
what is living how we ought to live like that’s a whole other discussion this is
why religion is so important this is why religion is such an important foundation
our judeo-christian history is a very important foundation of our culture even
if you don’t believe in God you have to admit that we get our morality from this
place from the Ten Commandments and that matters like it matters in a really deep
way and I’m a Rhino are kind of that sense of absolute morality and where our
laws come from and where this is where this notion comes from of what it is to
do the right thing like how do you define the right thing again we’ve
already talked about this if it’s based on thousands of years of wisdom and
trial and error there’s a good chance that it’s right okay not a guaranteed
chance but there’s a really good chance even if it doesn’t feel good or doesn’t
feel nice and compassionate it’s real and it creates a sustainable Society and
ultimately sustainable societies are should be our end goal now I’ll check
out rage culture is is counter to a sustainable
xiety it is it is chaos manifested in our our words and our actions
yeah the you say here pure freedom is chaos anarchy and moral decay freedom to
do what you like without any moral compass can quickly result in the
temptation to indulge in habits that may feel good momentarily but are wholly
detrimental to yourself and others pure freedom detached from a higher sense of
purpose results in at best in overindulgence lack of discipline
unfaithful relationships and some drug use at worst they can result in the
total deterioration of a society and and you know this is I think it was actually
Jason Gardner went before he was out of the teams but he he was listening to
podcast he was you hear me talk about I think he’s heard me talk about the
gulags or or just something and he goes hey discipline equals freedom that
applies to societies – doesn’t it I’m like yes it does if you have total
freedom everyone do it whichever you want well then you you you’re destroyed
and you end up a slave – well you end up a slave to any number of things whereas
if you have discipline inside of a society which is called law and order
and you follow those rules well then you actually end up with more freedom which
is what we try to do here in discipline equals freedom is the simplest way of
putting that because it’s it’s very true and if it’s been true for a very long
time it’s indeed indeed a next chapter again I’m jumping forward to your next
chapter this is the Challenger if we’ve got to read the book yeah they want more
absolutely a lot more in there there’s there’s a ton and you know you do I you
you give a lot of almost academic level back up so you give some like common
sense stuff you give some academic can you talk about the psychology psychology
cool viewpoint of things some historical references you do a great job of
balancing out what you’re saying and showing multiple examples from different
aspects so that’s why there’s that’s why the book you have to read the book to
get all that information the next one is called be still I got to read this
little section in the SEAL Teams our first exercise in training the mind
to be still is drown proofing and yes it is it is ridiculous as it sounds as
legend has it and it may indeed just be legend drown proofing originates from
the story of an American POWs Vietnam as the Vietcong transported him along the
Mekong River they decided they’d have enough had enough of him and threw him
overboard but this was not some magnanimous gesture of human civility he
was not being released for good behavior they expected him to drown it was
reasonable expectation his hands were tied behind his back and his feet were
tied together visualize that for a for a second
this creates quite the predicament especially when you are trying not to
drown he had to figure out how to swim to shore and as the story goes he did
just that ever since then a key element of seal training involves drown proofing
us making sure that we too can jump from a boat with our hands and feet tied and
then you go over the multiple ways to do this and you say here to do this it
requires that you do not panic while instructors are yelling don’t
panic and and that’s you know you talked about that as being sort of one of your
first lessons and learning how to be calm and not freak out about stuff it’s
it’s it’s such a necessary part of military training and drown proofing is
an excellent way to do it not not because we actually think that might
happen like how I’m lucky would that be that’d be unlucky or lucky and it’s like
wow okay you like is just like training you know they put a weight on you though
you’re screwed or you know there’s a lot of ways to tie you up anyway I’m not the
point the point is not that you’re preparing for this specific
eventualities the point is is that you you have a set
of skills and you better implement those skills while the fear of drowning is all
around you and of course it gets worse than the drown proofing gets into dive
comp or pool compco which is my it’s probably my least favorite thing in buds
when I got to buds I had no idea what it was they had a Texas Chainsaw Massacre
movie poster up but it had it was crossed out and said buds pool
caught Massacre and they had like drown a regulator on a person getting murdered
by Leatherface yes yeah so I was like well I wonder what that is but yeah sure
enough sounds great yeah sign me up you know uh I think like yeah I felt poke on
my first my first go at pool cop I failed and I was recycled to the next
class no I mean I know how we I got to retest again on Monday so I’m cool comp
on Friday yeah and we got retested on Monday if we
failed I failed okay well yeah I mean I feel first very rarely very really
through the first time yeah I was not happy
what’s welcome pool comp is they put an old-school dive rig on you so like the
old-school scuba tanks and this thing called the what’s it called a dual hose
regulator I think there’s a hose that comes in that brings the air and there’s
one that you blow out and they put you down on the bottom of the pool and they
just start to just mess with you they rip your regulator or the rip your mask
off and then they start tying knots in your regulator that you have to then
untie underwater and you have to follow all these proper procedures to get
everything back on meanwhile they’re slapping you in the head they’re
grinding your face into the thing into the pool deck and it’s it sucks and
eventually they tie something called a whammy knot which is a knot that you
can’t get out and so they tie this whammy knot and then you have to go the
proper ditching procedures which means you take your rig completely off you try
you have to attempt to get it to work if you can’t get it to work
you take off your weight belt you lay it over your rig and then you look at your
instructor you give them the thumbs up and then you do a proper free swim or
ascent and if you mess up any of you and there’s procedures for everything if you
mess them up then you fail so but it’s it dude it’s it’s it’s no joke like they
come out and freaking hammer you yeah and they always they always get you as
you have exhaled so yeah they’re watching the bubbles wave in the way
they’ve called a surf hit mmm like so they’re simulating this wave this
amazingly complex wave that somehow ties your hoses and
it’s like isn’t true that’s not real okay like there’s no wave like that but
it’s not the point you know it’s it’s same with drown proofing that the point
is not to prepare you for this eventualities there is no way in hell
that your hoses will ever be tied in knots
mostly because you’ll never use a rig like this that actually can be tied in
knots because this rig is not it’s it’s just for training so that’s not the
point into the point is the procedures the point is you’re drowning
will you still calm yourself and work through procedures that’s the entire
point of the exercise if you panic you are going to fail and there’s
physiological reasons for that because you’re using more objects freaking out
and there’s psychological reasons and they’re just the instructor these
instructors are seals they don’t want a guy in the teams that’s gonna be on a
dive with them that’s gonna freak out if something goes wrong because stuff goes
wrong when you’re diving yeah so that that T you know from your perspective
was a was a the initial recognition of like hey I better be calm right be still
as you say and yeah the reason I say be still because I was thinking of the
patrolling acronym that we use locals yep no stop look listen smell mm-hmm and
that’s that’s exactly what it sounds like you stop because you’ve you’ve
you’ve done something to in the environment maybe you landed with a
helicopter and that’s actually you know I don’t want to give too much away in
the book but there’s a really great intro to this chapter everybody you got
to buy it and know what it is and so you stop and you you you’ve created a
disturbance so stop and look around just chill and look around and then keep
moving that’s sills sills we just that’s what
we say and as a patrolling tactic it also kind of sounds like still and it’s
kind of the same meaning same oh yeah for sure
that’s why I named the chapter be still there and and then you apply that to
your life because I I understand that not everybody is going to be thrown
overboard with their hands and feet tied but if you are I go in a great detail
about how to overcome that particular predicament it is yeah there’s a lot of
methodology there it’s much easier than you think as long as you don’t panic so
and uh it’ll this is another chapter called do something hard so hey you know
what you do something art could be drown proofing and everybody can do this do it
with a buddy though we’re not sure that’s the worst thing one up one down
luckily it’s hard to tie your own hands behind your back without a buddy so the
the point is this it’s again old lessons count to 10 before you react but that’s
fundamentally what this chapters about and we have a had a habit lately given
the given the extreme nature of our kind of immediate gratification that occurs
with social media to react very quickly and wildly about things our media reacts
unbelievably quickly and wildly about things and it is it is a disservice to
our country it is I mean I that’s an extreme statement but it is true and has
gotten out of hand and it’s it’s so bad that I felt the need to write this book
our media does it but we’re but again their media is feeding off of us we have
to do better as individuals we have to to say like that’s not going to work on
me you know that extent that that quick over-the-top reaction is not going to
work on me I’m not gonna do it I’m not gonna feed into it I’m not gonna reward
it that’s that’s our duty you have to not click on clickbait headlines yeah
well I mean I can’t help myself I’m gonna click on the click but I’m not
gonna react to it right yeah you know it even for good practice go ahead and
click on it see if it makes you mad and if it does do it again it’s incredible
when you click on a click same article and I’m talking mainstream news media
and you go oh my gosh I can’t believe that happened and you click on it you’re
like wait a sec yeah that’s not what happened
I just got click baited don’t let it happen and the problem is actually the
problem is is that people don’t click the problem is oh they’re just really
yeah and I go into the flooded detail on that actually I give some example I
could give examples every single day I just kind of chose some random ones for
the book but an example might be the examples I use in the book are regarding
something like environmental regulations because this is a very motion
topic for people when you hear the Trump administration repealed 12 Obama era
environmental regulations here’s what you’re thinking and be honest this is
what you’re thinking you’re thinking black Gore Green sludge losing into a
river you’re thinking black smoke like emanating from a factory all of a sudden
while you know these corporate fat cats count their money and birds are falling
out of the sky like this is what you’re thinking if you’re being like this is
the visualization that occurs but is it true nobody asks the second question is
it true yeah what does this actually mean or what does it mean or like why
would they deregulate that you know what why was it put in place just a few years
ago you know I mean what kind of regulation was it you know is there a
good reason for and then I go into basically a case study on something
called new source regulation and we don’t have to talk about it now but it’s
it’s I basically write a case study on this because it’s important like there’s
there’s there’s good examples and there’s and there’s the there’s in the
headline about that particular regulation basically said you know Trump
is removing air pollution regulations so again your mind goes to those places I
just talked about the article itself kind of gives both sides like actually
not a bad article and this is usually the case and my experience because I you
know do this every day and my experience the the writer the journalist is not
always but a lot of times like actually kind of gives a balanced article but the
editorialized headline is terrible totally misleading you know that their
own article debunks the headline and you’re like what the hell is going on
here okay now a lot of that’s oftentimes because
the journalist is not the one writing the header okay so that’s it’s a whole
different story and then you look into it right and it’s like okay well it
turns out yeah they want to they want to make it easier for factories to to
update their systems or power generation plans to update their systems they don’t
want to have them go through this new source review regulation which is
extremely costly and unpredictable and environmentalists say well that’s just
Kadesh you’re just given giving away to corporations right you’re deregulating
them but it’s like well no as it turns out if you want to put a carbon capture
addition to your power plant which means capturing more pollutants or carbon
dioxide then you can you have to go through this extremely costly new source
review well maybe we should stop that you know thinking that’s and that’s the
background you know any I go to can go to a lot more detail on that but just
one example I can think of an example almost every single day like the
headline just isn’t what you think you know let’s let’s let’s bring it back
to coronavirus so the headline is you know the Trump administration screwed up
the coronavirus tests like South Korea is testing 20,000 people a day and we’ve
only done like you know 10,000 tests or something and by the time you’re
listening to this podcast that reality has changed drastically but in our
current moment that’s what happened in the last couple months and there’s some
truth to that like the America was behind on tests but who’s actually at
fault ask the question right and then look into the answer from some different
sources the truth is FDA never approved any South Korean test for all we know
those tests aren’t very high quality there’s different kinds of tests you
know they might give false positives or false negatives that stuff matters when
you’re trying to control an epidemic you know it would be easy to just by the
South Korean test we don’t do that not because Trump said we don’t want to do
it not because Trump isn’t taking it seriously
hell it’s not even Obama okay it’s actually none of their fault it’s just
our system okay our system is in there for a reason
like we have a very strict system from the FDA on what kind of tests can be
used for stuff like this now that exists for a decent reason for
instance if people remember the I think it’s called fairness the the lady who
has sake the cancer that’s absolutely called theros yeah no I tracked on that
time because there’s a is a very interesting case that oh yeah we’re in
the corporate yeah for about a million different reasons it’s a really
interesting case story and just that fake the cancer treatment or wasn’t just
cancer it was like hey you can identify literally hundreds and hundreds of
problems that you could have medically from a single pinprick of
right which is just just completely not true not true just not true now going
into more detail that particular lab was federally regulated and qualified under
a certain type of regulation through CMS but they but not through the FDA’s
regulations okay so eventually they work all right
and that’s what it’s for like that’s what the regulation is for so it’s still
annoying right it we should have more tests for the coronavirus available but
our system was not designed to make that happen quickly it should have been I’m
not saying there’s not room for some lessons learned here and some change and
we will make those changes actually the administration frankly already has so
but the only way to do it is to get the private sector involved and to give them
the flexibility to do the test and then to and then to streamline the FDA’s
testing of that test so that we know it’s actually a decent test you know
there was this the point is right like stop and think and and wonder be curious
like is is it true that a test is just a test like of course not like there’s all
different types some SWAT you know I mean it’s summer lab some of our test
kits like somewhere more accurate than others like that is it possible that
it’s more complicated than the headline is telling you is is it possible ittle
bit possible you know and and again when I say the media does is such a
disservice it’s because it’s so you know you should have somewhat of a combative
media against government it’s you know that their their point is a check and
balance against government but you would hope that their purpose would be to
educate and that I believe that has changed radically
I believe they don’t longer view it as there is their duty to educate the
public it’s they they only see confrontation as their duty and I don’t
find that to be a good service to the American people
I would say that is an accurate statement the news does that or has been
doing that a lot though even like regular local news they do that where
they land but it’s not you don’t click on it but it’s the same concept when
they say your is your cell phone killing you yeah more at 11 you know so it’s
like that’s the fake right there they’ve been doing that for a long time
yeah and then yeah then you then you listen to it cuz you’re like yeah I
listen to it and then it’s like oh yeah you know someone who dropped their cell
phone and it like made them you know do something they killed turns out to be
like totally innocuous yeah yeah debunked the headline speaking of
headlines next chapter sweat the small stuff this chapter this is the chapter
where I gave you permission to complain permission to moan and groan about the
nitty gritty small but annoying ankle-biting inconveniences we face in
our everyday lives permission to gripe about even your
smallest troubles grumble about long lines at the drive-through and whine
about the imperfect weather I’m actually going to encourage it you’re welcome
okay don’t thank me yet there are certain ground rules one sweating the
small stuff is okay but exercise your complaints lightheartedly seek out humor
and your whining be humble be self-aware too if you’re all if you allow yourself
to sweat the small stuff and I think you should then you must also force yourself
to be detail-oriented three if you allow yourself to sweat the small stuff then
you must try your hardest not to sweat the big stuff what are you talking about
here what actually kind of goes back to what you got a IIIi just restrain myself
from moving to this chapter when you set it before when you when you got a bunch
of criticism right for saying don’t be emotional about stuff mm-hmm
and people are like well if you can’t tell me that and that makes them
emotional ironically but but in your in your reaction was okay I’m not saying be
a robot you know I’m just saying like don’t let it get the best of you and so
I really wanted to be oh my god it’s like my chapter about sweating the small
stuff because because every time you’re told you know oh don’t sweat the small
stuff and I’m like oh I don’t know about that I think
there’s some venting that has to occur and and I think we take it a little too
far in the SEAL Teams oh yeah I mean we complain about the smallest of things
but there’s like it but I and I examined that like this chapters about examining
that truth why do we do that are we a bunch of divas yes yes but that is then
that is true two things not is affirmative that things can be true at
once we can be divas but there’s also a deeper reason and value to it as long as
you do it right and I try to exact I really examine that carefully in this
chapter about what the right way is to complain and like I try to set some
ground rules like be funny being funny is a decent way to do things it can’t be
too serious like there’s a difference between complaining about how crappy the
coffee is at the command and complaining about the actual command atmosphere to
your guys there’s there’s a big difference as from a leadership
perspective there’s a difference there like one can be kind of funny and just
like yeah stupid whatever coffees crap and the building’s stupid or whatever
like the same things people the gym isn’t hard enough there’s not enough
weight cuz I’m stronger than whatever you know typical dumb team guy
complaints there’s a difference a leader so legitimate complaints though yes
especially ya know I complain all the time like oh guess we’re at a 45 pound
plates you know my deadlift but uh the as big as a leader especially the big
difference between that and being like our CEO is messed up yeah that’s that’s
this is one of the things I talk about leadership strategy and tactics is like
if you are just whitewashing everything this coffee is fantastic and it sucks
you your guys are starting to look at you going okay where does nothing real
here you’re not real and you think that you you’re not question you’re not
pushing back against anything however like you said if you come down
and you say our commanding officer is an idiot
that’s gonna be problematic so you got a you got to be careful about what you’re
complaining about tools to your point complaining forms some level of bond
right that’s one of the things that we do in the teams like we’re gonna
complain about the the freakin birthing that we have and the this that the other
thing it’s like okay cool cuz we’re all on the same team we’re all complaining
about it but if somebody starts complaining about
things that matter mm-hmm at a more strategic level now we got a problem the
other part of the don’t sweat this or the sweat the small stuff mentality is
the detail-oriented part this is really important because one being detail
detail-oriented is an element of fortitude I would argue I think rather
effectively and I wrapped it into this chapter though and you could probably
wrap the detail-oriented mindset into many of the lessons in this chapter but
I put it into this one because if you’re sweating the small stuff then by
definition you are concerned about small things and it’s not self-evident to me
that being so chillax about all the stuff is a virtue and we sometimes see
that as a virtue like like the big and I know like the dude from The Big Lebowski
that guy doesn’t care about anything but it’s that girl other than bowling and
White Russians he was pretty passionate about those things that is true occasion
area but um but you know it’s like you know you’re you bet that that cool kid
in high school who just like let’s everything we’re all off their back you
know it’s like the cool surfer dude I I got it there is I’m not saying there’s
no value in that but it’s not self-evident to me that that’s what we
should aspire to because it’s not obvious to me that that there are highly
productive people maybe they are not saying they can’t be but if you’re not
concerned with small things there’s a pretty decent chance you’re not
concerned about bigger questions in life about bigger elements of personal
responsibility or you might not be that motivated to to move up the hierarchy
that we talked about and so being concerned with the small stuff is is a
habit it’s an Aristotelian in the Aristotelian sense we build good habits
that that are that are meant for a higher purpose that’s what makes them
make good have it we do it because it is good and so that’s the deeper thing here
yeah playing a little bit like like
especially you know on the way I’m away here we’re going down as at midway Drive
mm-hmm and San Diego has often had this problem and I’ve complained about it for
a very long time which is that the lights are not synchronized they’re not
synchronized for traffic flow the way like New York City is in Manhattan those
are well synchronized lights one of my biggest pet peeves is the lights are not
synchronized because it’s it’s a solvable problem might into just
synchronize the lights mm-hmm you know as a city manager or a mayor Robert over
at the system is and it’s like as I was going from red light to red light trying
to get to the Jacko’s podcast because I cannot be late because I just wrote in
my book that I gave him don’t be late that was funny I was like these damn red
lights you know and so my wife is like I am so sick of hearing you complain about
that where she’s like she hates this chapter because she’s she’s so used to
the seal team culture she’s like why’d you even write this
like don’t encourage this I’m like I am trying to encourage it to the right
extent you know and because it is I am walking a fine line for sure and we’re
trying to we’re trying to reverse some some commonly held beliefs and it was a
fun chapter to write it was one of my favorite yeah and obviously you just met
me that dichotomy of this is if you get so focused on little things than you are
wasting your time you know you’re wasting your time the the Matt’s on my
personal home gym my are dirty and people say your that’s you need to clean
your mats what kind of discipline is that I’m like look I would have to spend
an hour a day clean those mats to make them look clean maybe even more than
that I don’t I don’t care it’s my garage gym there’s chalk on the
floor and sweat yeah that’s the way it is I’m not worried about it
yeah and that’s that’s a really good point too and it’s it’s well it makes
especially make sense in the in the context of the dichotomy right right
balance and like and I’m and I and I hope that what I write there helps
people understand that there is a balance you know it’s it’s don’t it’s
it’s it’s it’s operating in gray area so that you can focus on the
big stuff because you know Steel’s like to complain about wet socks like a lot
like it’s a and I go into great detail about this and we avoid wet socks that
uh you know to an extreme extent but when it when things get really hard you
know we the complaining seems to stop when things are really serious we
understand and have some perspective about that and we and we act accordingly
and and I think that’s perfectly relatable to regular life you know it’s
it’s so it’s why we go it’s why we go and do happy hours after work you know
you just you’re blowing off some steam in a healthy way it’s why people go see
a therapist like you really just you’re really just
complaining to the therapist for an hour that’s that’s not as they’re venting
echo says yeah it’s like it’s like you’re just kind of letting that steam
out so that you’re you’re you’re holding tank of emotions doesn’t explode in
somebody’s face enough because that’s how you lose an eye next chapter the
right sense of shame in America today we too often look at personal failings as
things to overcome move past or forget sometimes we should do one or all of
those things but we should also do something else learn our lesson the list
of public figures who run headlong into self-inflicted failure personal
political or otherwise and then re-emerge shameless without having
appeared to learn a thing is long don’t get me wrong I’m no opponent of
redemption far from it I certainly believe there should be space for
re-emerging re-emergence from public sport scorned I believe Redemption is a
trademark of an enlightened society one of the most one of the more detestable
social trends now is mocking is the mocking of redemption and the disc
missing of the idea that it is possible or even desirable in place of a system
of repentance justice and mercy we have a culture of mindless fury and outraged
culture so you you talk about this sense of
shame which is like a really important thing
and I looked at this from a team guy perspective the amount of shame like for
instance if you forget a piece of gear you when when a guy in one of my
platoons or my task unit made a mistake I almost never had to do anything other
than simply very quietly acknowledge that that that I saw let him know you
know and they all it takes rush the shame would just drive them to never
make that mistake again that’s what you’re talking about here that we’ve
kind of lost that in a sense like in a huge in a huge sense and then the other
side of that is like hey just because you forgot something doesn’t mean I go I
don’t want you in this platoon you’re a piece of shit you can get no no no no
it’s like it’s okay hey you made a mistake you own it you admit it you tell
me what you’re gonna do to fix it and then we’re back on the level and I’m you
know we’re ready to move forward which we don’t have and then of course you go
into this whole episode that took place with a comedian whose name is Pete
Davidson is his name yep so this is this guy this guy is on Saturday Night Live
one night and he says they put a picture up of you they put a bunch of a bunch of
politicians up there mm-hmm and then they put a picture of you up and in and
this guy Pete Davidson says this guy is kind of cool
Davidson cracked Dan Crenshaw you might be surprised to hear he’s a
congressional candidate from Texas and not a hit man in a porno the audience
howled there as the audience howled Davidson jumped in with a quick aside
I’m sorry I know he lost his eye in war or whatever so that happened via that happen I want
to and most people know that story by now in pretty DJ I do give some
behind-the-scenes never-before-heard elements to that story yeah you know
it’s good detail which is why you got to read the book yeah but there why is that
in the shame chapters the question I think also I want to hear your
perspective on that whole thank you at first because you told me a minute ago
yeah you know from my perspective it looked like this like this just be clear
like during the election when it all happened because I was on your show last
time well before it’s ever happened no one knew Dan Crenshaw was back then
yeah we call it Jacko’s listeners well then they did but I’m saying like when
you first came on no one really you know you you you just started hey that was
early and yeah so it was early and but now all of a sudden man overnight
everybody knew who you were because of this and what happened was from my
perspective was people people started hitting me up on social media like are
you gonna you know denounce Saturday live and you know what did you think of
this and then they put the little thing in there and you know of course my kind
of gut was like kind of funny you know like my response was like kind of funny
I don’t know that that made me laugh but here’s the thing
luckily for me I’m always behind on Twitter like I’m not quite caught up and
as I finally started when I was like okay I’m gonna respond to this right
around then and I was like man what do I I’m like think of myself I don’t think
Dan is like crying over this I don’t think he’s at home going I can’t believe
that some comedian like me I’m thinking about them but people are acting as if
you were outraged they were outraged for you and god bless him it wasn’t like
they’re bad people they were just offended by it right what we do now yeah
they were offended by it and like you and I both know I’m like hey man that’s
something that probably has been said to him a hundred times in a platoon space
somewhere you know like they don’t make fun of you for everything
so anyways when I finally responded it was like if I think Dan can handle
himself or something I quoted you saying hey whatever your thing which was like
hey I’m not outraged it’s fine he’s literally a comedian and once again I’ll
use the term literally in its project the guy is literally a comedian he’s
supposed to make fun of things and make people laugh he’s not doing political
commentary and it’s not a personal attack on you for just him just to
attack you as a human being he’s trying to make people laugh so that was kind of
my perspective it’s funny how like when you’re in a position like you are and I
am in you know people like they hit you up on social media it’s almost like this
challenging like you better do this or I’ll never never like you again and if
you don’t do what they want I liked you but now now I can’t or can’t trust you
anymore it’s just funny how that works so that’s one element of it but the yeah
the hit man in a porno thing was pretty funny like that was that is no I don’t
think that even pissed off anybody to be honest um it was it was the the next go
here’s the next comment which was yeah I mean it was very submissive who’s
actually the whatever actually the whatever yeah yeah if he hadn’t sent
that yeah he wouldn’t have received any backlash if you woulda said I’m sorry I
know he lost his eye in war it’d have been like that’s it you know what okay
cool yeah and then he said or whatever right right and it was at a very
dismissive tone and now okay so but why is that in that chapter and it’s because
of this so the the point is is that this the Saturday Night Live story was a
story fundamentally about showing the right sense of shame and reaction to
that so because it could have gone a lot different like I could have asked Jocko
to be like denounced them for me and they’re like okay fine Dan Jesus and I
could have actually stoked the outrage and just like played the aggrieved
victim and if by the way if you read left-wing media these days they’ll say
that’s all the things I did it’s actually absurd how they rewrite is
really Oh 100% it’s insane like but the lies that occur from
being media don’t get me started I’ve already started okay so that but that’s
not what happened right I was like my line was something
along the lines of like a you know in this in this life like try not to offend
people but also try really hard not to be offended so you know it’s kind of
sucks what he said but now I’m not gonna ask for him to be denounced or I don’t
want I’m not demanding an apology be careful not to demand an apology I don’t
care if they apologize it’s like my life goes on either way that’s sort of how I
stated that and no he shouldn’t be fired people had asked me they should be fired
like no like why you know and I’m remembering now you also said something
along the lines of look I’m not really offended but you may have offended other
people like you kind of took a stance for other vets that have been wounded
has it been more grievously wounded than you that was the important line I had to
walk on that the entire reaction because that’s legitimate total easy you can’t
kind of can’t forgive the guy right off the bat you have to acknowledge that he
was screwed up and but on the other hand you can also acknowledge that that he
may have made a mistake like he may have misspoke like it may have been sort of
ad-libbed you know because that is a very highly scripted show but after
working with Pete Davidson like he kind of goes off the rails sometimes and I
mean on the show or on the ship in life both okay obviously but you know so it’s
like eight you know oh is that it’s kind of going back to be still like is there
a chance that there’s more to the story is there a chance I don’t have to act
like an aggrieved victim I don’t feel like an aggrieved victim so maybe don’t
act like it and so that gave that gave SNL the space to invite me on the show
if I had really stoked the outrage mob why would they invite me on the show you
know because now I’ve put them in a corner and so you can see this going
that way and this is how it usually goes right this code of extreme sense of
shame must be showed and the extreme sense of or the extreme outrage
results in an extreme sense of shame and so we’ve miscalibrated how we feel
shame in this country and that’s a problem for our culture and the reason
Americans liked the whole SNL moment with me and Pete was because it was the
right balance so the right sense of shame is about finding the right balance
of shame because it seems like we have these like two options and and I open up
that chapter talking about all these politicians who run headlong into
failure and then like reemerge untouched or unrepentant at all there’s a lot of
examples like that okay and I try to have bipartisan examples by the way
because I didn’t want this to be readable to to people of other than you
know my conservative fanbase and and the point is is that
yeah those politicians are bad people for basically feeling no shame at the
same time our culture has given them no incentive to feel any shame because the
outraged mob is so severe and so unrelenting and so unforgiving that
there’s no incentive to actually react the way you should react and see you end
up just not either not apologizing or apologizing profusely and like I
actually in the book I actually actually analyzed this with some bell curves and
graphs that I drew it’s like illustrate this visually for people so you just
have to buy the book to see what I’m talking about and what the point is is
like we need to get back to the middle ground where it’s like I’m kind of sorry
but I’m not really sorry you know and there’s some good examples of that like
a used Ellen DeGeneres is a great example she took all this heat for like
you know hanging out with George W Bush at the Dallas Cowboys game she didn’t
apologize she wasn’t like you know I didn’t have done like the extreme
apology I didn’t realize how much pain I would cause the LGBTQ community she
could have said that right and you’ve seen other celebrities do similar things
like similar apologies it’s like you’ve got nothing to apologize for
nothing and she didn’t apologize she she just kind of explained it and you gotta
just put people in their place like hey like it’s cool to hang out and be
friends with people if you disagree with and that was it novel
it was it was and it was it was a she diffused the situation rather elegantly
and I use a couple other examples of some good ones too but that’s what we
have to be aspiring to and and we’re not there right now and then it gets into
the the chapter gets into the individual sense of shame because this is that
that’s the cultural problem we have that’s the cultural outrage mob problem
that have just described but there’s a more individualistic sense of shame too
about how you carry yourself through your daily life and and how you have to
feel bad about something if you’re going to live your plan a like you have to
know what it is and you have to understand right and wrong you can only
understand right and wrong if you understand what you should feel shame
about I’m gonna and I get again into kind of a religious discussion here
about like our morality and like how we actually know right from wrong look this
is a this it this is a deep thing to understand and how you should feel bad
about certain things if you’re going to live the right way and then again we we
do this meticulously in the SEAL Teams I think I have a story in there about just
a debrief from a typical SEAL chief and how that went you know we thought we did
good no you didn’t and you’re gonna feel bad about it and you have to make
yourself feel bad about it and that’s that’s that’s the cycle that’s the
psychological reason the psychological underpinnings of of this chapter is is
you a seal chief or jaco can make you know he can let you can let them know
that they screwed up right but the question is do you feel bad about it
most team guys do most team guys like it’s just it’s hard to feel like you
screwed up but in the other in the outside world that’s not always the case
a lot of people are thinking whatever I shouldn’t even be in trouble I was gonna
say since I was in a position where a lot of times I was debriefing people and
telling them that they screwed something up and the reactions were from a good
this is the difference use it most team guys good team guys go man
we died up I’m gonna fix it bad team guys go it didn’t really matter that
wouldn’t have that would never happen real world I would you know like they’ve
got a million excuses they don’t take ownership better than they and it just
falls apart they feel no shame they feel no shame exactly they feel like it’s not
my fault it’s it’s not on me and and there’s a rationalization that occurs
and you have to the only thing you can control is your conscious mind okay so
you can you can control the conversation going on in your head about how you
rationalize that and the more you rationalize it the less likely it is
that you actually feel the shame in your gut because you guys at first you feel
it like you know is your fault and you feel it but then you rationalize it away
and eventually that rationalization kind of takes over and you no longer even
feel the shame and your gut and you’re going down a very bad path at that point
and again this this try to relate this to very basic stuff in life like like
don’t you feel bad when you’re that guy who kind of leaves the shopping cart in
a parking spot because you should yeah you know a bad person bad person you are
you somebody’s gonna hit that or it can’t park yeah or it’s just a it’s not
the right thing to do just a bad person you know you did it yeah no you are
you’re out there yeah you say in here we should feel a sense of shame for not
training hard enough for sleeping in too late for eating that extra scoop of ice
cream we should feel regret after walking by a
piece of trash next to storm drain knowing full well we’ll go straight in
the ocean we should feel bad for not tipping that hard working later we
should be embarrassed when we owe a friend money and they have to constantly
remind us to pay them back but more the team guys are listening to that one we
should feel lazy for leaving our food tray on the table in a fast-food
restaurant even though their trash cans are right there you go on you say we
should be in short be accountable for everything you do
it was my commander Jocko willing echo Charles named Joe one of my mentors and
the team’s wrote an entire book on the subject called extreme ownership the
premise of the book is quite simple everything is your fault be accountable
take ownership take responsibility from this responsibility
you’ll find freedom it is liberating really is it’s liberating the worst
thing the worst thing is trying to look trying to do you’re gonna blame because
then you don’t have control over it yeah when you say you know what this is my
fault then you’re are free to go and make
changes in your life free to fix things it’s it’s the deeper discussion about
why personal responsibility is a bedrock of our cultural of our of our culture
and our cultural foundations and as a conservative we always say it like I’m
always like personal responsibility and in speeches I tried to delve into that a
lot deeper like this is actually what this is the argument for why it matters
and it’s actually quite simple personal responsibility is empowering and lack of
personal responsibility is disempowering the other issue is its completely
unsustainable for for a very society to engage any lack of personal
responsibility it’s unsustainable because by definition if you’re not
personally responsible someone else must be responsible for you and that’s fine
if like you’re an infant or you know you’re in the might you know it’s a
small segment of society right you can you can again our our governments tries
to take that into account but if you wouldn’t actually encourage the
undermining of the foundation itself the undermining of personal responsibility
as a virtue in and of itself which is what’s happening on the left to try to
undermine that cultural foundation you’re creating an unbelievably
unsustainable trajectory where it is where we we have more and more people
who are who are convinced that somebody else should be responsible for them and
therefore take their own power it’s unbelievably disempowering and it’s it’s
it’s just I you wouldn’t wish that state of mind on anybody except your worst
enemies yeah you know it’s again it’s not how you treat people you love and
it’s one of those things that’s tempting right it’s short-term gratification it’s
it’s seems like the easier way to go because in the short term hey I just got
this and I didn’t have to work for it you know mm-hmm that’s the short term
and unfortunately we know where it ends up mmm it’s like a
pyramid scheme think about it seems saying I’m thinking about I’m I’m
getting paid or whatever cuz someone got to do the work at the end of the day but
a pyramid scheme it’s like everyone’s waiting for their turn oh yeah yeah yeah
yeah yeah and then at the end of the day everybody crashes because all who’s
doing the work no no no him no not him remember we’re not doing anything no
that’s right ID to think that that person sex yeah that’s what my initial
thought was trying to put it together but yeah you’re right because you’re
building it on everyone’s gonna get money yeah yeah that’s so it’s someone’s
coming from it it’s basically the diffusion of responsibility yeah this is
what you’re talking about and sort of the tragedy of the Commons as well it’s
kind of a mix of all those things and it’s uh not good it’s unsustainable next
chapter duty a sense of duty my parents imbued in me a sense of duty
to do that which has inherent value you go on to say duty is ingrained in the
human condition our great religious our great religions are essentially based on
a sense of duty to love God and live well we have a duty not only to survive
in this world but to pursue a higher purpose we are here for a reason and
living for that purpose is our choice to make it is the path to happiness so
again we’re starting to talk about you know the idea that you know you’re gonna
find happiness in some short-term gratification is not true right and this
is this this chapter comes right after the sense of shame chapter because you
have to understand what is wrong so that you can understand what is right and
that is that is the the darkness and the light and you have to live in both and
sense of duty is its living your plan a you know and I say don’t live your plan
B no plan B again that I explained before that that was about purpose
that’s about living with purpose and so we get into a lot more detail about what
that is in this chapter we talked about the great religions we talked about why
that’s important and and then it’s it’s it’s it’s a duty
to live at the books about mental toughness and so we bring it back into
it’s a duty to live with that fortitude and and again to feel bad as this deeply
intertwine with a sense of shame to feel bad when you don’t to understand what
that Duty is and how to live within it and I can remember if I list the 10
commandments in this chapter or the different chapters yeah but it’s the
same kind of discussion oh no right here’s this chap it is this general
character so the and then and so that’s when I get into a really long discussion
about where our laws come from so this this kind of goes into political
philosophy as well and the fact is is that the Ten Commandments are the
origins of our law and I talked about how Moses the portrait of Moses is in
the House of Representatives staring down at the Speaker of the House and
well along with 23 other law givers but Moses is in the middle Moses is the only
one who’s not inside profile that’s important because he was the original
receiver of law not man-made law but like absolute law these things are true
it can’t be argued with they are just true all right like Commandments one
through four basically say these are true you can’t argue with them like
believe in God and the rest of them are like this is what you should do you know
don’t steal don’t kill all that and an atheist could say welcome I know that
yeah I don’t need the Bible to tell me that I shouldn’t do these things I know
they’re true my counter to that is how do you know how do you know who told you
who taught them where did you where do they get them from how do you know
they’re true and they can’t answer that they’re true because they do come from a
higher power they’re true because they come from thousands of years of wisdom
and whether you believe in that higher power or not you’re still following it
and you can’t escape that reality if you start if you try to and if you start to
believe that that human morality is changeable and that we can just choose
that to change some of those Commandments well then you get the
Holocaust like it’s it’s a short path man like
it’s a short path to the horrors of the 20th century the secularism of the 20th
century killed millions tens and tens of millions and because we untethered
ourselves from absolute morality it’s a really dangerous path yeah when you talk
about that and you end up saying at a very basic level this is back the book
at a very basic level this is a shirking of fundamental human duty and
responsibility a responsibility to what exactly politeness open-mindedness and
grace for starters these are our duties to our fellow Americans just the basics
if we lose those fundamental virtues we lose our sense of unity without a sense
of unity under an umbrella of common values this whole great American
experiment unravels and as you just said we’ve seen this before mmm common values
exactly and and they come from somewhere and a large part of this book is about
showing gratitude for your history gratitude for what works I like to say
that you know again just being a conservative conservatism is based
fundamentally on things that work things that feel good the things that work and
that’s important you know doesn’t mean we’re always right but most of the time
I think at least the foundations are and you can’t just undermine the foundations
of a society and and I see that happening more and more
unfortunately you rattle off some of these duties you have a duty to
accomplish something every day you have a duty to live up to your best self the
person you want to be the hero archetype you admire you have a duty to embrace
shame and learn from it you have a duty to be polite thoughtful patient you have
a duty to overcome your hardships and not wallow in self-pity you have a duty
to contribute even if your contribution is small you have a duty to be on time
you have a duty to do your job even if your job sucks you have a duty to stay
healthy both for yourself and so you did so that you did not become a burden on
others you have a duty to be part of the solution not the problem in other words
don’t join the Twitter mob you have a duty to try hard not to offend others
and try harder not to be offended and this is where you start broaching into
what I was saying earlier there is a selfish
reason to live a life of purpose and responsibility it will make you tougher
and more successful we aren’t perfect and we won’t always adhere to these
basic duties but I hope we can start to agree on what they are feel some shame
when we fall short and begin living our lives with purpose this is the
time-tested formula for a stronger people and more than that a stronger
America this is what this is what people miss sometimes and I talk about this a
lot from a leadership perspective from a leadership perspective if I’m a leader
that tries to climb on people’s back tries to make myself look good
tries to always shine the limelight on myself and find the best deal for myself
if I’m that type of leader I might get ahead for a second here there but
ultimately I will not be in charge of anything if you’re the type of leader
that takes care of your troops looks out for the good of the mission you you look
out for everyone above yourself if you’re that type of leader look you
might take you might take hits now and again because you’re you’re propping up
everyone else above yourself but in the long run this is the this is the amazing
thing in the long run you will absolutely be a more successful leader
than me who’s over here looking out for myself and and that’s a similar thing to
what you’re saying here which is like if you do these things which seem like
sometimes they be a pain right getting up every day and being on time taking
care of your health like all these things that maybe you don’t feel being
polite to people right sometimes you just want to do what I want to do that
ultimately taking care of yourself and putting yourself as the supreme cause of
your life ultimately you will be less successful than if you take care of
other people if you treat other people with respect if you do your job if you
do those things that again on the surface they seem like they might not
help you in the long run you will absolutely win absolutely and when you
win your team wins your community wins your country wins that’s what happens
right and your your individual actions and habits and tasks that are inherently
good we have to dig and we have to kind of redefine what good is because we’ve
forgotten but that makes up the fabric of the larger culture and if we want a
successful culture that is not at each other’s throats and not
losing our minds because of microaggressions and offenses then
you’ve got to live within that and yeah treating other people with respect and
doing things for others again very basic biblical teachings that are
unfortunately being swept away especially in favor of a of kind of this
sense of grandstanding and sense of morality where it’s it’s more moral to
demand that others do something for others you know like that’s I’ve thought
again I’m going back to the problems with socialism it seems to me that
sometimes say well Jesus was a socialist now Jesus encouraged you to be
charitable with your time and your money right that’s what Jesus said he didn’t
say stand on top of a hill screaming that other people give away their money
that’s not sorry like that’s that’s just your missing to deliberately
misinterpreting the teachings of the Bible in favor of socialism like there’s
a few other biblical reasons I think socialism is not correct but but for our
purposes on this chapter that’s that’s a big one sense of duty to give your time
and your money and contribute that way and it will make you more successful in
the long run because building good relationships is a huge part of success
we forget about that sometimes Jordan Peterson goes into a lot of detail in
that particular element which is it’s kind of fascinating to get he’s a big
fan and has he been on your show three times times
nope he was on before he was on before he was kind of popular yeah before 12
rules for life came out and then he was on a two times after that and yeah
they’re they’re some of the most popular episodes of the podcast until this one
of course yeah sure yeah I’m sure it’s interesting because a lot of people they
make that mistake how you’re like you have to have to do it mm-hmm because
people make that mistake with extreme ownership – yeah yeah they’re like hey
if my boss would just get on board with this this concept you know like yeah we
problems my team would just take ownership yeah
we’re not talking about same feel and same thing with relationships I’ve been
using the percentage lately of 99.9% of the things that I got done in the
military and did in the military were based on relationships and not based on
chain of command so every time one of my guys you know had a mission I didn’t
this is how you gonna do it no it’s like hey how do you want to get this done
every time my boss came to me they won’t like hate job this you need you know
they’re like hey here’s what we got what do you think everything was about
relationships everything every the extreme example was in the Battle of
Ramadi when we needed fire support from tanks who needed to risk their lives to
go and get my guys prevent them from being overrun in the field what those
tanks didn’t work for me they didn’t they were in a totally separate chain of
command and yet they would do it why because we had awesome relationships up
and down the chain of command and so yeah absolutely relationship building is
it’s it’s it’s critical to every aspect of life and the little tagline that I
often tell people is relationships are stronger than the chain of command 100
percent now 100 percent next chapter do something hard in Budds it’s all about
the next 10 minutes sometimes it’s about the next 30 seconds if you’re thinking
about buds in its entirety six brutal months then the font is simply too much
the men who quit are the men who look up at the day before them and see all the
days to come they are thinking they’re the men who are miserable and wet and
cold and thinking about the hot coffee and girlfriend they miss and suddenly
because they imagine the months-long suffering they will inevitably face they
break they are already using every ounce of endurance and fortitude to survive
what’s happening right now expanding their horizons to an infinite number of
miserable right now does them in so you focus on the next 10 minutes and remind
yourself that the instructors can’t kill you even if they’re claiming otherwise
thousands have made it before you you can too what’s on the other side of
those months and months of 10 minute blocks are over liberation
transformation and meaning so that’s that’s one way to get through buds buds
isn’t six months long it’s about four minutes long right now I’m through it
lots of four minutes lots and lots of them
we’re so longer for some of us if we extend our time by breaking a leg some
just not it not great but also normal yeah normal a lot of people injured they
get rolled back they got to go back over and over again so how does this how does
this apply then to you know this is broad advice to human beings yeah so
because not everybody’s going through buds and nor should they and obviously
I’m using my own experiences here like this was my transformation but buds is a
transformation for a lot of seals it’s what so it gives us confidence and it
you push your limits so that you way past what you thought were there so that
you’re confident enough to break past more limits when they come because they
will come and you know they came from me getting blown up that was there was a
limit that I didn’t quite experience even in hell week and it got worse
because things can get worse but hell week and and buds in general and the
mentality that we developed accordingly at least allowed me to deal with it
later and so doing something hard it has a
number of benefits one is kind of a simple sense of preparedness and the
Stoics a reference Stoics stoicism a lot throughout the book and the Stoics are
referenced in this one because they day they believed in hardship as
preparedness so that’s a very that’s a very practical reason to just do hard
stuff you know if you’re worried about being homeless one day try sleeping on
the floor sometimes like try going a few days with without the comforts of your
home so that if it did happen you’d actually be prepared for it that that’s
a very simplistic way of looking at it but like that’s what they meant by that
simple preparedness you know if you want to be better at running a
Mountain run up a mountain like it’s you know so this is the actor preparedness
but there’s a deeper reason why I think doing something hard matters and it’s
the it’s the psychology of suffering and so this is a chapter that has a lot of
Psych references in it I am did a lot of research on this one specifically with
guy named dr. Allison from University of Richmond and the benefits of suffering
are well documented psychologically and physiologically physiologically speaking
interesting research that I am will go into now but because again I want people
to read it I don’t want people that come away from
this box i spell-checked got it you know not flying that book now thanks Jocko so
there’s there’s a lot more to it but um the the suffering has inherent value and
we’ve we’ve created this society where we try to avoid suffering and risk at
all costs and there’s it’s not self-evident that that’s a good thing in
fact it’s pretty evident that it’s a bad thing we’ve become more fragile as a
result and again there’s good research that shows that we’ve become a kind of
this this fragile culture we need to be anti fragile hardship should make us
stronger not just that we’re resilient to it but that it actually makes us
stronger this is this is fundamentally true again I think think though the
Bible talks about this the psychological research talks about this there’s
there’s evidence that you know again physiological pain you know working out
it changes your brain it makes you better at memory and if you’re better at
like if your brain works better I would argue that you’re mentally tougher so
like just again so start lifting weights you know and if you can’t lift weights
like find something else that is hard so again it’s not butts and I’m not saying
lifter trauma either okay like swimming with sharks is hard
they don’t go so much sharks that’s bad butts in it so I guess what I’m saying
is don’t put yourself in a dangerous situation where you’ll have to live
through a hardship and then overcome it okay that’s not what I’m saying I am
saying it has to be self-imposed has to be habitual and there’s value in
that and and it could be simple right could be taking a cold shower on a
weekend it’s like I’m just gonna weekend’s I’m gonna take cold showers
it could be waking up at 4:30 a.m. some rather good plan yeah I hate that plan
but yeah but that’s that’s like but that’s there’s a reason you do it you
know and it was a sense of discipline you’re on the path like this is this is
what you do and that and it’s different for everybody but just find it and maybe
make it harder the next time you know but eventually in your case you would
just be will never I guess what would that look like wake up earlier oh sweet
now you’re just in the middle of the night yeah it’s weird I’m thinking about
there’d be some times with team guys on operations where it goes it goes past
the normal everyday level of suck like it starts to suck bad whatever it is
whether it’s a long long insert you know patrol in whether it’s the heat whether
it’s the cold whatever that thing is like you will be I would say one out of
every eight it’s just standard kind of operations that you’re going one out of
every eight you’re gonna have to go into into that zone where you look around at
the other guys and you’re like yeah you’re like yep this everyone right here
everybody in this boat in this zodiac that is absolutely freezing right now
mm-hmm this sucks for everybody and you know
what it’s just like you up we’re gonna keep going and it’s like glorious and
then you look back on it later and you’re like that was amazing and it
makes you better and it it really there’s a spiritual awakening that
occurs with suffering self-imposed suffering no doubt and and also not
self-imposed suffering I’m just saying don’t go seek out the the what you know
what would be better to refer to as tragedy but I’m not saying seek out your
tragedy but also and now kind of be jumping into the next chapter because
sort of leads into it but then you’re telling yourself a story about the
tragedy and there’s still value in that and again and this is backed up by
research like I did homework on this there is whether you
call it post-traumatic growth or kind of positive in I forget the other terms but
there’s a there’s a bunch of terms like a lot psychology terms that that that
prove and demonstrate that people not only become more resilient but but even
stronger after really hard occurrences so don’t run from it as a society we
need to embrace it ya know no doubt in my mind and we’ll
let’s jump valestra let the next chapter but first let me close this one out
because it’s here’s what you say in the raw humanistic sense without suffering
there can be no internal resilience to adversity no proper preparedness for the
future suffering controlled by you and for the right cause can be a building
block for both spiritual health and mental toughness in a Liberty based
nation like the United States we are free to fail and to suffer that
fortitude is a welcomed and necessary attribute rather than trying to erase
suffering at every opportunity we would all be wise to value it and seek it out
so go do something hard and so this next chapter which you are just alluding to
is called the stories we tell ourselves you say you could tell the story of my
life as a succession of hard times and heavy burdens you could tell it as an
array of kicks to the head interspersed with failures my mom died my leg broke
my I got blown out my active Commission got taken away my fellowship application
got denied all these things are factually accurate they happened I
endured them that is where a lot of people would leave it these are things
that happened to them from forces beyond their control leaving it here leaving it
there communicates a handful of ideas about someone he’s unfortunate he’s
unlucky he’s beaten he’s a victim that is not where people should leave it
stories about burdens borne on their own omit the most important parts the
responsibility of individual the reaction of the
individual the growth and maturing of the individual the world does something
to you because it will always do something to you but once it’s done that
share of the story is over that is where your share of the story begins that’s
the point where the story stops being something done to you and starts being
about you and you go into you know we talked about your mom dying but you
mentioned your leg getting blown there’s a lot of things that you – a lot of what
do you call them hard times heavy burdens and failures that you talked
about in the book that we haven’t even touched and again that’s why people get
the book so they can learn those lessons and see what you went through there but
also see this you know this is now we’re getting towards the end of the book
where you’re starting to tie this stuff together and say hey listen you were in
hard you were in bad situations how what what are you going to do in the face of
those bad situations more poignant Lee what is the story that you tell yourself
yeah and ensure throughout this book is a is a particular thread about
victimhood ideology and how that pertains to outraged culture I would I
would argue that victimhood ideology is is a tenant of outraged culture it’s not
surprising that you feel really mad and offended and angry and outraged if you
also feel like you’re oppressed if you also feel like you’re a victim and you
embrace that victimhood this isn’t all that surprising either it’s expected
because going back to the hero archetypes we’ve elevated victims why
would just be small at pretend and make up the story that he got attacked by two
mega hat-wearing guys in Chicago at 2:00 a.m. why would he make that up because
we’ve elevated victims to heroes like that’s that’s why why does Elizabeth
Warren claim the lies that she’s claimed about being Native American or that she
was fired for being pregnant these are lies they’re well-documented lies you
know what’s interesting is just thinking of the which is it Jessie
I’m thinking about that guy’s story if you were to go back 20 years and someone
was gonna make up a story the story that they would make up would be I got
attacked by two guys and I kicked their ass yes really crazy the way our but and
that’s exactly what I’m talking about it’s like that’s our hero archetypes
have shifted so wildly that that the more likeable story is getting your ass
kicked and then complaining about it as opposed to like no I just whupped their
ass like that’s exactly that’s a that’s a perfect point to make and it in like
you know that’s why I start the book with who is your hero cuz it’s such an
important concept and in this case it’s like okay now that you know who your
hero is well then you should you should identify how you react to hardship not
saying hardship doesn’t exist victim you know when I bash victimhood ideology I’m
not saying there are no victims it is possible that you truly are a victim by
salutely but you know but one that should be defined like in just the word
injustice needs to be defined better so that we can overcome outrage culture and
injustice doesn’t mean things that aren’t fair or things that you don’t
like unfortunately that’s how the word is used all too often and justice means
someone needs someone else is truly infringing on your rights rights defined
as life liberty and property okay injustice can be defined as your due
process being taken away some some true unfairness or discrimination being
implemented against you that can be defined as injustice okay an outcome
based on something other than your merit can be defined as an injustice but but
victimhood ideology really turns these that really strains these definitions
and I think people understand know this intuitively just watch the news and
watch how people are reacting on social media this is a really big problem it
prevents us from telling the right stories about injustice and then solving
it and overcoming it it’s we’ve been encouraged to live in the story of
victimhood when something bad happens and that may feel good again
back to what you’re saying before this sort of short the the short-term
thinking it feels good in the short term right it feels like feels like it’s
somebody else’s fault and there’s there’s a comfort in that it’s like a
warm blanket of self-pity that occurs in like comforting but it’s also it’s it’s
you could almost say quite literally killing you because it leads you down
this path of despair that that ends in not a good place if you always feel this
your things are out of your control and you’re disempowered and then if you
literally cannot get better you’ll not get better one of the questions that I
get asked a lot when working with companies they’ll say you know what’s
the biggest obstacle for having a culture of extreme ownership and it’s
really easy answer the answer is the ego because when something goes wrong and
you have to say hey this is my fault well that hurts your ego and that’s the
biggest thing that people have to overcome now the other thing that that’s
interesting is and you address this here so the other thing other question I’ll
get asked a lot when it comes to extreme ownership and I’ve kind of already
mentioned it you know is hey if my kid gets sick how do I take ownership of
that if I get cancer how do I take ownership of that if the market falls
apart and we lose all of our money I have to let people go how do I take
ownership of the of the market how do I take ownership of a natural disaster
that occurred right so there’s good I get asked that question and the response
is you take ownership of how you how you respond to that occurring right when
something bad happens and you you you you go through the same thing here you
say even if I was not totally responsible for what happened I was
still responsible for what would happen mm-hmm and this is after you got after
you got removed from the Navy anything they didn’t kick you out of where they
force you to retire right now they forced you retire look death that’s just
happening to you like the big blue Navy is going you’re done and you can’t
control it and so do you take ownership of that you you
take ownership by how you respond to that and what you say here’s you try and
find your next mission right you can control the next step there’s another
important point here that I that I lay out which is the way you describe your
history this is important as putting yourself in the right psychological
framework and we call those get to statements like I have to wear an eye
patch or I get to wear an eye patch you know because it looks cool so that’s
nice all right get to wear the gold tried n
tie because it looks cool but you can go much deeper than that like I you know in
some of the to an extent this is self-deception right and and you know
that consciously going going into it like you know because I use another
example like well I I have to pay my bills or get to pay my bills because it
shows that I’m an adult and I’m living responsibly I have to pay taxes or I get
to pay taxes that one’s harder that one’s things live in California yeah
guys all you do is pay taxes yes we do um doesn’t pay tax and they’re not even
synchronizing the lights because if you get to pay taxes that means that you’ve
made enough money yeah to pay taxes so I’m saying in in a different country by
the way yeah I mean it’s you know it fundamentally
what you’re doing there is finding the silver lining because the finding the
silver lining in a bad situation is fundamentally about telling yourself a
different story about that situation and so it’s it’s not whistling past the
graveyard you know it’s it’s it’s it’s not it’s not ignoring the actual
hardship it’s just forcing yourself to have the
fortitude to tell yourself the right story about it that that’s that that’s
what the chapter is fundamentally about yeah um and it’s one of those things you
you you read through it you go yeah this is the attitude that you would want a
kid to have you know you close it out here 20 years ago I received a letter in
the mail from Rice University the letter might as well have been addressed dear
failure because it was indeed a letter informing
that my services were not required at the prestigious school I failed to get
in 20 years later I became the US congressman who represents Rice
University the path from that failure to my present-day success was not an easy
one many more obstacles and failures would present themselves every day each
against a small obstacle against each small obstacle I had to tell the right
story in order to stay on the path through self-fulfillment failure like
suffering has intrinsic value and worth should we choose to confront it properly
otherwise the ultimate story of success whatever that may be for you will never
get told the other element here and I’m going to listen to that much detail but
it’s an answer I give when especially kids ask how to deal with hardship and
I’d like to point out that every obstacle is an opportunity and that
sounds kind of cliche but it but it’s really not it’s true I wouldn’t be a
congressman if I hadn’t gotten my eye blown out this is true I would have
stayed in the teams never would have left I had no reason to leave it was
night I fought very hard not so best job ever why would you leave yeah and if I
hadn’t have been there’s so many things like it I talked about you know got
denied this cool White House fellowship if I had gotten that I wouldn’t be a
congressman you know so technically that’s a failure but you know you also
also it’s not oh well what did you go for that fellowship right after Harvard
right after Harvard was right after the Navy for one year applied for that
didn’t get it you applied for the White House fellowship right and you didn’t
get it didn’t get it and then you’re like okay cool can’t beat them join them
well no so ran for Congress cuz now I control the funding for the White House
fellowship yeah yeah that’s right Naval Academy didn’t well I guess it was
actually you can’t join them beat them I guess yeah yeah I didn’t join them sorry
you didn’t get in the Naval Academy either no didn’t get in the into the
Naval Academy um rejected I’m not going to defund the
Naval I mean but but but no I didn’t get in
and what if I had I don’t know maybe I wouldn’t have even made it to buds you
know you could argue you know it’s just different selection process like there’s
all these you want to hear a little story that I tell myself whenever I get
some kind of like little injury even if it’s like a a more significant injury
maybe it’s something that’s gonna make take me out of off my training schedule
for a month right hurt my knee hurt my shoulder or something I always tell
myself that that was the greater powers way of getting me to not Train cuz the
next day I was really gonna get hurt yeah the next day I was tough so I’m
just like okay cool that’s God’s Way of telling me I’m not
supposed to train right now because otherwise I was gonna break my neck or
something so we’re just gonna that’s right that’s the story I tell myself
sometimes I think it’s a I mean it’s not a joke I think it’s a real I believe in
that kind of stuff honestly I Bible I do believe that um some things happen for a
reason it’s up to you to actually react to it appropriately but I don’t know I
actually do believe in that and I think that comes out in this in this chapter
it’s one extent all right next chapter you went from the personal story now
we’re talking about the story of America this is this is chapter 10 the
individual stories we tell ourselves not just about our hardships but about who
we are combined to create our American story every one of us adds a small
thread to the larger fabric of our culture and as we change and evolve so
do our cultural norms the American story itself evolves this isn’t a bad thing
either it is natural and constant throughout history but something is
changing for the worse the American story itself is being threatened our
cultural fabric has often changed and evolved but it has never been
irreparably torn the closest we ever came was a civil war
I suggest you that the latest threat to our American story is outraged culture
identity politics and victimhood ideology that it
elevates the threat is born of small beginnings as big threats so often are
it starts with toxic personal narratives wrapped in cheap cloth of victimhood
always looking to X to an external culprit to blame for real or perceived
injustice so this is the direction you fear that
we are heading right now I think we’re there so pessimistic well it’s just well
I’ll tell you one things I knew you talked to I was going to say I was just
like when I was I was on with Ben Shapiro and I just went up and talked to
Candice Owens and you know they live at Ground Zero for interacting with crazy
people I mean and you’re I’m there you’re not think it becomes all you see
as you get a little bit more pessimistic exactly and and you know I’m really
lucky because you know I work with a bunch of different umpah knees all over
the country and work with every different type of company and work with
all levels inside of a company so I’m not just out there only talking to the
CEOs and the see sweet I’m also out there talking to frontline troops
communicating with them talking about what problems they have so we really get
to see and everyone at national in front we really get to see the pulse of not
only of America over a large span but and a bunch of different socio-economic
levels and in a bunch of different industries whereas I mean Candice and
and Ben like they go to they go to speak at colleges that’s kind of what they do
you know and well you’re not gonna run into the same type of people that I’m
gonna run into that’s working on a construction site or a manufacturing
plant in Iowa no you’re sure not and I do the same thing I’ve been pleasantly
surprised to be perfectly honest with you even when I go to colleges and
especially high schools I think the questions are good there’s disagreement
it’s been it’s been good yeah actually now that you mention it call just
sometimes too and you and you mentioned you know you were talking about the kind
of crowd that comes in to CMU the crowd that comes in to see Candace Owens
or Ben Shapiro sure there’s people that want to see them that have like a
conservative viewpoint but they probably attract at least as many if not more
lunatics to do and it’s I have seen it happen less over time also because you
know they’ve been in Candace and Charley Kirk day that is kind of what they’re
looking for because they want the debate to happen on camera
I personally I enjoy it too like I want I want people on the left to come and
debate me mm-hm and I’m gonna you know that’s what
I want that’s it’s one of the reasons I’m doing it if it’s just a bunch of
people they’re agreeing with me that I’m not I’m not making a lot of progress
it’s really just a rally at that point and there’s value in that too but but we
are going there for the confrontation I just want it to be respectful and
fact-based and and and it’s not always that way I’ve had some interesting
experiences where it’s just it just devolves into an emotional ramblings but
I felt so had some really interesting public debates and like that’s kind of
unusual for a politician to do see that’s the candice owens and ben shapiro
model it’s unusual for a politician to do because we can get in so much more
trouble doing it because it’s dangerous yes it’s it’s you don’t know how that’s
gonna go people setting up ambushes on you yeah gotcha moment right
right and so just be prepared for it and you’ll be fine know what you’re talking
about you know it’s it’s and so I do it and it’s um but uh I enjoy it quite a
bit so that you know but okay but back to the original question which is are we
are we there as a culture and the answer is kind of like it’s worse than it used
to be how about that you know whether whether we’re like we’re in a disaster
area right now with respect to victimhood ideology and identity
politics that’s up that could be debated forever and it kind of depends on what
your standard is like whoa what does it look like to be over the edge on that
like I’m not sure I just know it’s worse I just know it’s gotten a lot worse and
other and III referenced Jonathan Hyde quite a bit in this book one of my
favorite authors and his book the coddling of the American mind is a great
read if you’re if you’re really looking to examine how this evolved on college
campuses and they can really examine it down to the year
about 2013 which and then they examine all the reasons for this you know this
sort of outraged culture and even then though they they they point out it’s
it’s mostly at the coastal elite institutions it happens a lot less on
other college campuses where listen the reality is most college kids just want
to get drunk and like get through their next class and you know that they’re not
super hyped up about politics the social media the fact and those of us who live
within the world of social media also makes us believe that like you need you
that it’s a lot worse than it really is and you have to remove yourself from
that and so you won’t see me using examples in this book of people on
social media you’ll see me using examples from leaders in our country and
like big you know big media companies like the New York Times you know really
pushing these narratives so I’m not getting my my evidence for this problem
from random commentators even if I could count thousands of them because it’s
like what are thousands a tiny tiny little itty bitty fraction in the United
States what matters is the leaders and how that’s changed over time so that’s
why I come at this and I say you know what there is a real problem here and
we’re there because our leaders are talking like this like this is a bigger
movement than just some idiots on Twitter it’s bigger than that and so
that you know that’s so that’s why I think it’s such a because it gives if I
couldn’t find those examples then then I would argue that yeah maybe I’m over
blowing it but the victimhood ideology is a it’s here and I could you know from
what you just read the argument I’m making there unless you were gonna go on
to something else go ahead see the argument I’m making
there is that there’s a series of steps that have led to this moment where we’re
telling a different story about of America and I give an analysis of
analysis of how its victimhood ideology that’s created there’s a lot of elements
but victimhood ideology is a big one it’s because it firsts are small as I
note there it’s of small beginnings where you’re blaming somebody else like
maybe it’s your platoon commander who just didn’t see the value in you
way they should have mm-hmm which by the way if you talk to modern military
commanders is a problem with you know a younger generation like they’re seeing
these differences in how it is to manage troops it’s it’s just it’s different
it’s hard it’s hard it’s not the same like I came into the SEAL Teams thinking
okay like I have to I feel like I have to earn my way here newer newer maybe
team guys maybe not team guys but definitely the military newer troops are
thinking like they’re owed more than or their the organization itself has a duty
to them but not the other way around like a duty to give them more
responsibility and and leadership or whatever and but but they haven’t quite
burned it yet like more status without earning it yet this is something we’ve
this is something when I talk to leaders I don’t I’m curious what your perception
is on this because you talked to so many corporate leaders and how it is to to
manage the different generations not only corporations but also still talking
to military troops and there’s always people well this is a question that I
get asked all the time and it’s you know what’s wrong with my team mm-hmm and you
could probably guess how I answer that this is a leadership problem and well
one of the things I’d fall back to all the time
so I don’t know that I can think of a more difficult workforce to deal with
then being then dealing with draftees in Vietnam in the Vietnam War people that
did not believe in the cause did not want to do the job and in doing the job
their life and limb was at risk you cannot think of a more difficult work
force to try and deal with so I’ve read many many many many many books about
Vietnam I’ve interviewed many Vietnam veterans leaders and and troops and
here’s the deal good leaders good leaders and my first example is colonel
david hackworth who’s like my my personal mentor you
I never met him but I read his book many times and all this books many times but
when he talks about the draftees and he was he was in Korea and he was in
Vietnam he’s a battalion commander in Vietnam he was one of the most decorated
guys ever and when he would talk and he was a complete lifer this guy worshipped
the army it was the oh he was in the military since 15 years old it was all
he ever knew and when he would talk about his draftees and when he talks
about him in his book about face he loved his draftees and he loved his
draftees because guess what they would call it they would call bullshit when
they didn’t think he was making a good call they would give him pressure
against what he was saying to do if it didn’t make sense they would test him
they would push back and as a leader he thought that’s exactly what I want
that’s exactly what I want is I don’t want people I don’t want a bunch of
robots I had one of his company commanders on the podcast who retired as
a general Mucca Mucca Yama general ookayama fantastic guy and I asked him I
said he was a company commander in Vietnam and I said what because I this
is this question I hear all the time I said you know sir what did you think of
your of your draftees in Vietnam and he said I I really couldn’t tell who was a
draftee and who wasn’t and so then you read other books and what it boils down
to is and most of the books the other books that I read are like interviews
with people and if you have leaders that are not good leaders guess what they do
they complain about the draftees about how they they push back they didn’t
follow orders people like William Calley in charge of the meal I mascar what did
he think he hated draftees because he’s a shitty leader and so when you talk to
me about a millennial that the characteristics of a millennial hey they
they they think they deserve stuff they want to know why they’re doing what
they’re doing they wanted to have ownership of stuff they think they
deserve to be in charge of stuff and I’m like bring me that new guy I’ll take
that new guy any day of the week and I’ll take that new guy and be like okay
you want you want to run something you won’t know it you wonder why you’re
what you’re doing absolutely you deserve that that’s decentralized command you
need to know why you’re doing what you’re doing perfect you want to take
ownership and stuff absolutely you you think you should be in a higher
elevated position good let’s get you there so we can always
complain about the junior generation the freaking kids and the teams right now
are way better than I was when I checked in as a new guy are you kidding me
they’re way better they’re tough bastards – it’s not like they’re just
more technically you know some people say well you know the new generation is
more tech-savvy it’s like yeah they are and they’re tough as hell so when we
start talking about what the problems with is with our troops what a good
leader does it says okay there’s these I need to treat this guy with I need I
need to make some maneuvers here to get this person on board with the program
because it’s not like some young army guys like I don’t want to do a good job
it’s not like some person at a tech company some person that just graduated
from college and went to a tech companies like you know what I don’t
want to do well here like no they want to do well now they might have some high
visions of themselves cool whose job is it to put those visions into check whose
job is explained to them listen man I’m glad you want to step up and run
everything that’s awesome let me ask you this do you even
understand how this you know how the economy of our business is working right
now if you explain this here look at this look at this spreadsheet and
explain what this means I have no idea okay cool let’s get you educated on this
let’s get you to learn this cuz you know what I do want you to elevate I want you
to take over this company that’s fine but you’ve got to learn this stuff I
think so as a leader we got a we got to look at people and this is again this
happens all the time and it happens within wonpil tune you know I guarantee
you had guys in your platoon that fought they knew everything and you had some
guys that were like happy to be here and they’re just humble you get you get all
these guys you get all these guys and is there some little difference in the
generations sure there’s always difference in the generations no
freaking generation was as hard as mine right we always hear that you know the
guys when I got to the teams it was like the guys from the 70s were like oh the
guy in the 80s a week and then the guys in
the ad said the guys from the 90s a week like let’s just keep going how do we
reflect things as a leader make adjustments when if my team is not
performing well I’m a hundred percent responsible for it if my team has a bad
attitude I’m a hundred percent response before it and I’m gonna get it fixed
that’s what I’m gonna do I’m responsible to do that yeah and that’s it
that’s a very nuanced look at this I’m always asking this question because I’m
a millennial you know it’s silly and it’s hard to generalize a generation
you just can’t but but you have to – there are stereotypes exist for a reason
so it’s it’s it’s good for analysis to try and figure that out and and I don’t
know I don’t know where I fall on it because I see the I see I do see some
bad aspects it’s an you know wanting more responsibility was maybe the wrong
thing to to hit on as a negative attribute that’s obviously a good thing
but it also but sometimes it’s accompanied by a not so humble belief
that that somebody is victimizing them and preventing them from moving up
because of some kind of oppression and that’s and if I get someone like that on
my team who’s responsible for fixing that attitude I I can promise you right
now we’ll play the question game all day long and I do this I do this with every
level of leadership I have people coming you know my team’s all jacked up okay
cool who’s in charge of your team well yeah
that’s right you are or someone say my frontline troops aren’t doing 100 who’s
in charge your front frontline troops it’s bill okay who’s in
charge of Bill Mike who’s in charge of Mike me that’s right you you’re
responsible for what’s going on down there and if there’s attitudes that you
don’t like man you’re responsible for it now you are absolutely responsible for
it and if you’re a good leader you can get those attitudes to shift in the
right direction and generally by doing exactly what we’re talking about when
and you and I were having a conversation earlier it’s like if they understand why
these decisions are being made or why they actually need to learn some of
these frontline jobs before they can move up the chain of command if they
understand that they have a path for mobility – to increase their pay and
increase their responsibilities inside of an organization okay okay cool thank
you for telling me that and now I’m gonna go get after it as opposed to
millennial suck yeah and I kick and I can’t I can’t deal with no it’s like
okay cool yeah okay I mean I guess it’s I guess that’s why I wrote the book
right because because I do see these things as problems and I don’t see them
in my team my team is great and they’re Millennials or younger so obviously
something is working there maybe that’s because I hired the right people with
the right temperament who’s in charge of doing that well me exactly exactly so
when you when you meet someone that says oh I got these horrible people on my
team Oh have you tried to fix them yeah but I
can’t fix them well a whose fault is that B who actually hired these people
in the first place if you if you can sit down with someone and you interview them
or you hire them and then they’re horrible and they have a horrible
attitude and they don’t want to be a part of the team great you’re not gonna
be a part of my team yeah you’re not gonna be a part of my team if that’s if
that’s what you bring to the table and so and so this book I think is like what
I’m trying to do is look at a broader cultural problem because it is it it is
and and then try to give lessons to fix it you know because for all the reasons
you just stated it’s like it’s it’s we have to take ownership of our culture as
well it’s not just 200 our team that we can you know you should of course and
that you can control a lot when you’re leading a team but we’ve got to come
together as a culture and be better because as I as a part you read as an
individual you’re an individual thread and the larger fabric of society and our
culture is being transformed and not in a good way and I hope the problem isn’t
as bad as I kind of make it out to be but um you know what worst case scenario
I’m wrong and and things are going in a great deal
I wouldn’t say worst case scenario you’re wrong
I mean clearly there are indicators of what you’re talking about and as you
said you’re not talking about people on Twitter you’re talking about mainstream
yeah organizations that that proceed in this
direction in the analysis because I went on off on a tangent talking about
Millennials and the management issues with them so the analysis I go into is
it goes something like this you believe in a victimhood ideology believe that
somebody else is to blame maybe beats your team maybe it’s our
boss maybe it’s your parent maybe it’s your teacher whatever it is somebody
else’s fault okay you’re in that you’re living that story about yourself
individually that is expanded it’s expanded to groups it’s expanded to this
sort of group on group identity politics not my fate is tied to an immutable
characteristic that is tied to a group maybe it’s race maybe it’s gender maybe
it’s socio-economic in nature and by by consequence there is another group
oppressing my group okay so it’s group on group politics this is identity
politics to the courts it’s it’s the promise of more power from one group to
another okay you’re telling somebody they’re a victim and you’re telling them
that you’re the champion of them against the oppressors so that’s the next thing
but then it evolved even more than that it evolves into these kind of
institutional conflicts and so it’s not just a group that’s oppressing you that
group is tied to a broader institution maybe that institution is the church
maybe that institution is is some kind of you know cultural institution maybe
it’s a merit merits and maybe it’s a meritocracy that to me that’s an
institution this notion that we compete based off of merit and that your reward
is tied to how well you perform or your talent right the meritocracy is an
important institutional construct in our culture okay
there’s other institutions too like the Supreme Court when we’re talking about
packing the Supreme Court you’re talking about tearing down an institution those
government institutions there’s cultural institutions there’s social institutions
you know the the word institution is malleable in that sense and it should
describe a kind of a cultural framework that we operate and I think those come
under attack you know because it’s it’s the institution’s fault I talk about um
Thomas Sol he’s an economist and Hoover Institute and Stan
amazing amazing thinker and author he talks about how the French Revolution
was they that the led by Rousseau who was free it was it was based on this
idea that the natural state of things involves no suffering but that it is
institutions that caused suffering well that’s a really interesting concept it’s
like this belief that that life is actually it is not it is not natural in
life to to be oppressed or to be to go through suffering
it is not natural what is natural it is and it is the unnatural institutions
man-made institutions that created your suffering
therefore we must revolutionize those institutions tear them down and build
our utopia this was how the French Revolution happened this is how 17,000
people were dead in the next few years from the from the terror that ensued it
is the thinking that led to Marxism and the horrors of the 20th century all
right this is this isn’t all that controversial of a statement to make
it’s just kind of how it happened and that that is how that is how the
progressive left thinks as well that it is these these it comes from somewhere
like progressivism has a history just like conservatism has a history and it
is it is a history based on this kind of your your feelings are correct if you
feel something it must be right and and you should and the injustice is against
you are always man-made and they’re always come from an oppressor they’re
never a natural part of life therefore government is there to fix those
institutions and that’s why you must proceed with the revolution this is the
thinking that occurs ok so that ends up once you’ve torn down the institutions
there’s another ultimate oppressor and it’s the american founding itself that’s
the story of America that keeps getting told and that worries me a great deal we
didn’t used to fight about that the left and the right did not fight about the
story of America the way we’re fighting about it now and it’s become this
question of whether America was have been founded on anything good at all
that’s a pro that’s that’s the story being spun and it stems from this
individual victimhood identity politics and again I’m not making this up I’m not
because I’m looking at major leaders that say these kind of things you know I
quote bado I quote Ilhan Omar America was founded
on genocide not not that America committed genocide that would be an
accurate statement you know but America was founded on it
that implies a very different meaning saying that white supremacy is a problem
is a true statement saying we were founded on it that’s a different
implication you’re you’re indicted the american founding itself so what does
that lead to well it leads to popularity with burning the American flag please
the popularity with kneeling for the national anthem it leads to popularity
with with with with attacking the Pledge of Allegiance as an institution in and
of itself it leads to it leads to the New York Times public is just okay on
the 4th of July like it leads you know I open up in this chapter talking about
the the New York Times going after the Apollo 11 50th anniversary basically
praising the USSR instead of America on this day it’s like why is that why is
that the reaction because because there’s this need to to tear down the
institutions of America at its core why is that well because you need to tear
something down at its core if you want to implement the revolutionary utopia
that you envision so this is the most political chapter by far right this is
where I really delve into the differences like the real deep
differences between conservatism and progressivism because I I nailed
conservatives a little bit on this too as far as the victimhood ideology goes
like it’s a different form of ideology it’s a different form of victimhood but
it occurs and it’s sort of in and it occurs up to the up to the limits of
tearing down institutions ok conservatives have a very inherent
distrust of government institutions like sometimes to a conspiratorial degree but
we stop wasting the founding of America and then the solutions to this problem
which is what I really and the after with I make a very strong argument
for against against progressivism as a solution to these problems mostly
because progressivism at its heart is a promise to end your suffering and that
is an inherently dishonest promise to make for the reasons I just say again
that’s the the basis of the French Revolution we can end your suffering
because it’s man-made it’s not natural the natural state of things is for you
to live in a wonderful utopia prancing around in the trees or whatever the heck
they were imagining it doesn’t make any sense because it’s not real and so to
tell somebody that you will in their suffering to tell them that you can
replace God with government because what is what is what is religion
fundamentally it’s like the Jesus took on the crucifixion and the the The
Passion of the Christ is about him taking on the suffering because there’s
a spiritual element to this and it and that and that can’t be that can’t be
replaced by a government ideology and fundamentally it’s its basic level
that’s what progressivism attempts to promise people and I also tried to
define what I mean by the progressive movement very carefully in the book
because I don’t want there’s a lot of people who identify as progressive
because you know they just got back from a gay wedding or they like to smoke some
pot or they like tattoos or whatever or they do yoga you know like like that’s I
I’ve defined that very carefully as social progressivism in the modern sense
and like that’s just not what we’re talking about here I’m talking about the
deeper underlying politics and history of the progressive movement and what
it’s fundamentally promising people talking about the role of government in
your life and you know because again I want this to be readable to a lot of
different people but this is the most political chapter by far you know one
thing that speaking of the tattooed yoga whatever person I was a really
rebellious kid right and I think at some point there’s gonna have to be like a
like a Republican with a mohawk and face tattoos
that’s gonna come out and say like hey I have face tattoos I like whatever genre
of underground subculture music I don’t want to conform to anything and the best
way to live that life is to actually support conservative values because
conservative values support individual freedom and that’s what I believe in
yeah and I think that’s what’s gonna get some of these cuz let’s face it
an 18 year old kid wants to be rebellious why because they trying to
get out of the house they’re trying to show their dad but they don’t need them
anymore trying to show their mom they don’t need them anymore so I’m leading a
mohawk and we’re gonna tattoo on my neck and I’m gonna move forward into the
world and and other kids look around okay that’s how we’re rebelling but at
some point you go actually it just blows my mind that people say you know you go
up to anyone and say um you know do you want the government to be in charge of
anything you go up to someone with a mohawk and if yeah or whatever and
they’re like no way man no way man and then you go cool why would you vote for
the government to be in more charge of more of our lives I just don’t think
that connection gets made often enough no it doesn’t and I deal with this often
and since I talked to most not mostly but um I’m a politician who there’s a
lot more youth engagement than most politicians do
and so I address this directly like how do you as a conservative young person
how do you make the case for conservatism to your your fellow young
people who kind of live by this kind of libertarian and what you described as
sort of a libertarian an extra rebellious libertarian these people who
kind of live by this notion of you know social progressivism and freedom but but
fundamentally they believe in a kind of Republican form of government that is
out of your life and you know fiscally responsible you know they they live by
this mantra well I’m socially liberal but fiscally conservative right that’s
what people say and then they vote Democrat 100% like almost
100% of the time so it’s it’s a mantra that makes them feel good but it doesn’t
mean anything to them and I mean delving into this is like my life’s work at this
point yeah I feel something so I’m so glad I don’t have to talk about the
stuff okay I’ll do it once a year with you but it’s a super interesting thing
and you’re like like why why is your entire vote your entire vote on a
political party based on the abortion issue I mean it doesn’t make sense it’s
not it’s not a rational decision I’m sorry it’s just not especially because
that issue will not affect you you know because you because people will say this
and they’ve got like three kids and they’re like well and they would never
get an abortion themselves it’s like this doesn’t affect you at all you know
you can make a pretty good argument this should be decided at the state level and
yet you are voting 100% because of this issue at the federal level this is not a
rational decision and or gay marriage it’s like that’s definitely not a
rational decision considering it’s not even argued about anymore
like that’s the Supreme Court’s done with that one so it doesn’t you know
it’s it’s really surprising to see how people think about these things and and
so I guess bring it back to the book my point is I’m trying to distinguish there
I’m trying to distinguish this into a role of like what our intuitive
conversation about what government is actually for and how that manifests into
victimhood ideology how that manifests into the story about America because
again I can make it it’s a very short path from victim and ideology and in
America as an oppressor to hatred of America itself and I only I only quote
the big ones I only quote you know Taylor Swift because she’s a cultural
icon you know and she’s out there saying if you’re not a cisgender white male
your rights are being stripped away that’s a Taylor Swift quote that’s an
amazing thing to say from one of the most successful prosperous people in the
world why would she believe that what is happening that she believes this thing
that is so fundamentally not true that is so easy to to debunk why would she
believe this why did a OC believe that she’s the next one I quote which is like
what did she say my generation has never known American prosperity
how does that make any sense I mean it only makes sense in this context where
if God are you really insane yeah it only makes sense when you understand
that the goal is to elevate victimhood and then they use that and then they use
that to tear down the story of America itself and it’s a it’s it’s such a
dangerous path that we’re on that we want to revolutionize the foundations of
our prosperity to such an extent and again the only way to justify the only
way to make people believe that their eyes are lying to them that all the good
things around them are just lies the only way to make them believe that is to
constantly is to constantly hammer them with this crisis narrative with this
false narrative that people are trying to oppress them or there’s other people
being oppressed and you’ve never met them but guess what it’s happening and
if you don’t and if you don’t raise your fist against the injustice then you’re
part of the problem you and your white privilege it’s this is happening in such
an extreme level you know and it’s and again the good news is is like people
listening like well I haven’t seen it and look good that’s good but it is
happening ya know I mean you gotta be aware like
you said there’s evidence big evidence from from real players out there that
that preached this and and live this sort of life it’s kind of interesting
man because we on this podcast very seldom talk about politics at all
and yet people kind of know where I stand and they kind of you know just
it’s all good well like you said it is real things that is going on um it is a
problem and that’s the one thing that I would say is very nice about your book
is that it is a first of all it explains it and it gives some pretty good answers
on how to move forward and one of the things you do is you you close out with
with an American ethos ya set you set forth an American ethos in the book or
what I think you called a draft or you say perhaps it goes something like this
and you and you spell it out pretty straightforward
nothing that really anybody would sensibly argue with right you know
nothing that you could really sensibly argue with and I’ll let people get the
book and and and read it but you know that the last line of it is you know I
will live with fortitude you know name of the book is fortitude that’s sort of
a last line of the American ethos that you you put forth and that’s a simple
statement right it’s a simple statement but it’s something that you can actually
carry with you in every part of your life and the way you tie fortitude into
all these other aspects of how to deal with other people how to react to things
that is what the book is about and it really sets forth a a great path for
people to go down to get their themselves their family their country
into a more stable and productive and better place so I’ve read a tiny
fraction of the book today whoever you what you should do is order
this book right now now here’s something that you haven’t ran into yet Dan your
publisher your publisher is first of all they’re under estimating you they’re
under estimating the people that want to hear this message so they’re only going
to print X amount of books mm-hmm they’re looking at pre-sales they’re
like okay we’re gonna print X amount of books because it’s an investment it’s a
risk for them and then what happens is the book comes out people start to read
it it catches on fire and then all of a sudden they’re four weeks out from
printing more books so what people need to do right now is pre-order the book or
your book which makes the publisher then print more also I should note all
pre-orders are getting a signed book plate oh all of them ouch yeah my hand
hurts yeah that’s not fun ah so order the book
right now we’ll have it on our website so you guys can click through and order
it well I need to clarify that you have to go to Dan Crenshaw slash
pre-order to upload your receipt so that we know you pre-ordered it and can
should get you the bookplate you know what we if you do that you get the book
playing I’ve been I’ve been putting out that website pretty conical I’m gonna
take this as a personal challenge to see if I can break you get so many freakin
pre-orders that you have to sign book plates for like
this this I mean do something hard you know sign 1 million book plays yeah do
something art that is nasty you actually have a podcast now your own podcast
which is called hold these truths yeah tell us about that podcast a little bit
so I’m always looking for ways to communicate it’s my job I’ve got to
communicate the truth and the policies that I believe are right and the things
we’re voting on in Washington so I do that a ton on social media everybody
knows that and there’s there’s you know there’s a different method of
communicating for every platform and one thing that you can’t do on Instagram and
Facebook and Twitter is have really lengthy conversations and deep dives
into policy issues so I do that on the podcast and you know it started because
I’m like you know I get these 5-minute conversations during hearings when I
have a really interesting witness come and talk about something and maybe I’ll
meet with that person later too and it’s a really interesting conversation and I
ask some you know questions that I need answered
whatever why don’t we record that why don’t we dive into these things and so
what you’ll find from that podcast is a whole variety of issues you know one day
it’ll be at about Iran or China another day it’ll be about student loans I’ve
interviewed the previous head of the ACLU we’ll talk about free speech we’ll
talk about you know this discrimination law makes sense in these in these
conditions like there’s there’s some really fascinating deep dives we’ll talk
about 5g will talk about Bitcoin I mean there’s a whole variety of things
Medicare for all the environment the green New Deal like all of this stuff
and talking to actual experts on the subjects as I say that’s your job gives
you access to people that actually know what they’re talking about yeah yeah
they’ll come and talk to me and are you bringing on people that you don’t agree
with well I’ve gotten into debates with some for sure especially a head of the
ACLU we haven’t we probably could do more of that it just
started so I’m trying to build up a bleib rarey right now of just deep dives
into certain policies or I’m kind of just asking the questions as a because
you know the way we went at this podcast he was like I don’t have time to prepare
for it and I’m too busy to take the time to really prepare a podcast the way you
are preparing your podcast each time it’s it’s not it’s not feasible for me
well it’s more feasible is that I’m just a genuinely curious person talking to
another person who knows a lot of things that I can take an hour out and do and
um I think it ends up being pretty good yeah and so you know yeah we haven’t we
haven’t we haven’t had a full-on like debate on on a podcast yet and haven’t
figured out how I would even structure that if we were to because I debate I
debate in my public life so often it’s like you know yeah I don’t know he’s
that or need to put it on the podcast either but it bit but a lot of people
would like to watch it though yeah I mean I think it would be nice because
you could be in a situation where they’re not look constrained by time if
you’ve got somebody else that was sane yeah that had a different viewpoint on
this out of the other thing where you could actually discuss and maybe make
some mutual forward progress between right know coming to better ideas or
more mutually agreed upon ideas that might be nice you are on Instagram at
Dan Crenshaw TX which is for Texas echo in case you didn’t know that Facebook
Dan Crenshaw at Dan Crenshaw and you also have your website which is crunched
off for Congress is that where the book is as well or no no no is the book the
book is game Crenshaw book calm got it yeah like your branding it’s just like
mine my name that’s exactly now um did I miss anything as far as like all this
all this stuff as far as getting in touch with you and all that um no I mean
it’s easy to find me on social media you have to keep in mind here’s some
annoyances about how my social media works on Instagram I have one account
okay it’s my personal account it’s uh it’s not really official it’s not really
campaign but the way the rules work you have to generally differentiate between
official and campaign which is why there’s two Facebook accounts which is
why there’s two Twitter and you have to follow all of them to
get all the information Instagram if you’re an Instagram user it’s a little
easier for you I just cuz I I control that’s my personal account and that’s
that’s why you just have to search for me a couple times and then follow both
that’s the only thing I would add got it now Dan I know you’re doing a lot for
America which is definitely appreciated but I want you to know that we’re doing
our part over here as well in the private sector we’re working hard to
make people better yes to make the economy better and rebuild the
foundation of America or at least one foundation of America that is
self-reliance and our ability to create and build the best products in the world
100 percent american-made did I say a hundred percent american-made yes yeah
100 percent american-made in three years it’s three years we’ve gone from eight
employees to 80 we are just getting warmed up little company up in Maine is
my home state my home region I should say I’m a New Englander yeah because I
got time in Connecticut and Maine but I can I claim it a little bit my home a
record is made yes you can clean up there we got a little factory we got
something called origin Maine tell us about it echo Charles oh well oh by the
way we are getting softer by the way as generally speaking as a group we are all
getting softer that’s why generation after generation they say oh my
generation was harder than this new generation that’s why they always say it
you’re saying it factually it’s factually then this is why generally
speaking as individuals there’s variations and individuals for sure and
even little micro groups for sure variation but this is why technology the
whole reason for technology is to solve our problems mister make things easier
make everything easier exactly right and and I’d say I like to look not like to
but I look at it as to solve our problems which is making things easier
for sure so even like the caveman right when they invented the wheel all these
softies they got the wheel now yeah I’m saying because before uh that generated
like our generation we had to carry stuff I mean there
gently harder I think objectively speaking and that’s not a bad thing that
we’ve made things easier but right but you have to art is just kind of the
whole point of the chapter do something hard you’ve got us it you have to make
up for that yeah you’re artificially yeah hardening your own life oh yeah and
that’s why this is like your book is good that’s why what you say is good is
because right we can’t this is a wave a wave of just easiness coming on us
there’s no stopping it but individually we can kind of like fight against not
necessarily the wave but the results of the wave yeah I’m saying you can do
something hard yeah so what you get though what you will get inevitably is
everyone with all their problems solved and we’re always looking for these
little issues yeah because that’s how right that’s nature so now it’s like hey
that’s some injustice right there yeah it’s a lot it’s a lot harder to complain
about the injustice of your Wi-Fi in your neighborhood not being as strong as
if you don’t got food on your plate and think about like your kids know right
where it’s like oh yeah they got to wear helmets now assume saying hey you guys
got to wear seatbelts now so I get into like a 1965 something yeah right you’re
gonna die in that thing it seems like they seem saying but that was just how
back there yeah now getting your 2020 whatever Tesla and buy you can fall
asleep behind the wheel you’re safe they got you no problem exactly right all
your problems solved so that’s how you know it’s like a you know the all these
groups of people might not like very small groups of people but they’re super
loud because they can be now that’s just how like back in the day because they’re
not out hunting down elk yeah the bow and arrow yeah and not to
mention the technology allows all this you know so yeah and they’re loud or
whatever but you make a good point where it’s like yeah if you go out and look
for all these issues it’s like it’s hard to find them but your how you say like
Ben Shapiro and Dan there and Ground Zero did you come man
Canada’s otter get us better at ground yeah so it’s gonna seem pretty bad
nonetheless yes so yes keep up the good fight against
the wait a will doing hard things what hard
things you got for us echo trans what can we do
jiu-jitsu hard daily heart hardships all day daily hardships you know working out
Fitness jiu-jitsu and I was gonna say fashion but that’s more your oh that’s
hard for you anyway so what’d you get – what are we doing he didn’t give we
didn’t know ki noogie yeah if you get Aggie get in or Jinky for all the
reasons you mentioned though yeah we’ll get you up to the factory up in Maine
dan you gotta go check it out it’s um it’s awesome it’s awesome
we literally brought the last bought the last loom in Lewiston Maine from a five
hundred thousand square foot abandoned factory that hadn’t been used in 20
years and all the other hundreds and hundreds of looms from that factory sent
overseas we’re bringing it back we had one loom now I think we got four looms
we’re bringing it back an awesome and you know the folks up there these are
folks that their industry was taken away from them their industry was sold
overseas and now they’re back craftsmen crafts women sewing making boots making
jeans all in America from and every like every single part of those jeans is
American yeah it this is such an important I’m gonna bring it to a little
bit of politics and how I view this and the need to to embrace some sense of
American economic nationalism which we’ve lost over time and the the rise of
Trump when people ask about how the Republican Party has changed under Trump
what they’re it’s usually a disingenuous question what they want you to say is
that Republicans are racist right that’s really what they’re insinuating when
they ask that question or that they’re more racist now it’s not true that but
there is some change and this this drive towards to to a conversation about
economic nationalism is actually part of that change and it’s been interesting to
watch and I think it’s a necessary change because what Trump got was a lot
of Democrat voters who may be voted Democrat their whole life but they’re
part of a union culturally speaking they identify a hell of a lot more with me
than they do AOC okay so they started voting based on
that but also Trump finally talked about some things they were concerned about
which was like China okay China taking advantage of us NAFTA
taking advantage of us and the reality is that’s it that’s a nuanced
conversation it’s not it’s not it’s different for every factory to be honest
sometimes it’s the business itself that sucked
sometimes it is Chinese dumping that occurred all right sometimes it’s just
it’s a mix of things but Republicans for too long
adhere to a highly stringent free market economy dogmatic approach which said if
another country can make it cheaper they should make it all right that’s just
that’s economics 101 we’re done no more thinking about it
well that’s it’s not that simple like there’s winners and losers here just
because like tomatoes are now five cents cheaper for everybody doesn’t mean that
we’re all better off you know we’ve of farmers that no longer make tomatoes
also we don’t make tomatoes and now by the way again let’s bring it back to
some coronavirus we’ve got a real conversation in this country to have
about medical device manufacturing and supply lines of our medical industry and
computer industry and everything else like there is benefit even if it costs
us more there is benefit to having that here in America it’s real benefit not
just the job the manufacturing jobs are certainly some of those benefits but
there’s a national security reason as well and it’s about time we have a more
honest conversation about that as Republicans Democrats will just be
against Trump no matter what so like that because they don’t rip them they’re
not really principled in this that they’re mostly about seeking power for
the sake of the revolution again I could go way back into that again but and and
so you know I we just I think that’s an interesting point this is where I want
to end that and so I love what you guys are doing I guess is what I’m really
trying to say yeah well it’s and you know we got this
right now again you’re talking coronavirus we got 100% American supply
chain so zero impact is zero impact it’s it’s just it’s
it’s awesome and yeah you’re talking about the the Chinese are making a bunch
of the what 95% the pharmaceuticals or something crazy there’s crazy number
like that yeah that’s not okay that’s not okay and yeah if you save five cents
on something that’s not okay when when something happens even if it was even if
it was just a natural disaster that that caused problems over there you know no
political anything that’s a real problem and to have single source for life
life-saving capabilities that’s a bad plan and hopefully we look back at this
coronavirus and we say hey I’m glad we got a heads up I’m glad we got a free
lessons relatively cheap lessons learned yeah about this so anyways up in Maine
doing it we’re doing it we’re doing it right now we’ve been doing it and we’re
gonna continue to grow we’re gonna continue to get out the best products
we’re making supplements to supplementation as as echo Charles likes
to call it sure from time to time so for supplementation what joint supplements
very important by the way yeah joints I should probably take some of
this yeah bro what do you do like if your joints don’t work yeah not much and
just get new ones yeah yep there is that technology by the way yeah also Molk
Molk technically is supplementation technically what is that more it’s more
of a dessert it’s a dessert that happens to have a bunch of protein in it and
probiotics and it has no sugar that’s super healthy and it tastes delicious
technology I’m skeptical of the delicious part that oh that’s great
that’s what’s crazy that’s what’s crazy that’s what has got so many people
officially on the milk train I change so much to say I will send you what’s your
flavor of these flavors chocolate vanilla mint chocolate chip which is my
personal favorite Reese’s Peanut Butter Cup and I know I can’t call it that but
that’s what it tastes like butter chocolate peanut butter chocolate a big
fan of the peanut butter chocolate and then here’s the one that’s kind of the
creeper or the the what’s it called the crea no the super the sleeper is
strawberry hmm so did you ever have strawberry Quik when you were kid yeah
did you write it yes okay I’m not kidding
I’m not kidding strawberry milk tastes better than strawberry Quik no like a
competitive illiquid weight we can weave back because it’s my preference for
flavor does depend on the substance it’s like a milkshake milkshake milkshake a
milkshake order chocolate milk or a or a Nestle’s Quik okay well what you can
make pink is you can put more can pretty much anything okay okay so based on the
fact that it’s more like a milkshake then I would yeah then I would I would
say not the peanut butter I do like peanut butter milkshake but that’s more
of an ice cream that I’m favored okay so can we have milk ice cream is that a
thing we have things in in process for the milk ice cream and we did did you
have some at camp yes sir okay so yeah we we have multi scream we need
to move forward on our logistics that’s a heavy logistics you know you’re
talking about shipping frozen fruits etc so we’re moving in that direction that
we’re not there yet we’re working on it gotcha
it’s a we have Mars coming we did totally ridiculous yeah totally
ridiculous you don’t change your stuff so strawberry then yeah yeah the whole
the whole line so you’ll just be you’ll become sometimes you can be the mood for
mints you know strawberry I’ve got a sweet tooth oh yeah I smoke bars you
gonna it’s funny cuz you know how kids are the kind of a litmus test you know
like if you give the kid like let’s say back in the day right you got your diet
shake and then it’s like it’s yeah I think it out you say you should give it
to the kid because like brown like this like you know I I dig it or whatever
they don’t just don’t like so my and I have a video of this where my son three
by the way which is a solid little test create a good experiment
yeah yeah because he doesn’t have morals or nothing like that so he’s just tell
you the truth yeah that’s what I mean like he didn’t care about your feelings
or whatever so yeah I have a video of him chomping a milk bar and I’m like I
didn’t give him a milk bar and he’s like oh yeah he just called the chocolate bar
whatever and I was like what heating and he’s like yeah it’s frozen chocolate bar
and here’s the thing I put those in the freezer to hide him and he went in there
right now with motivation obviously insane taste buds is the number one
motor factor in this case check anyway so that
was to the test that’s my wire though I don’t want to get too ahead of myself
yeah yeah stick with the mock for now um alright
so yes and by the way all those things the supplementation the drinks
everything is available at origin mancom also at Vitamin Shoppe nationwide there
you go also we will be listing Dan’s book for
easy availability fortitude on our website chocolate go ahead
click on the book section on the top menu we have a book section there that’s
my episode so this episode boom you’ll see you see Dan’s book there anyway you
can get it there also in the store it’s called choco store so you go chocolate
store calm similar to Dan’s book or what was it called
fortitudo calm down Crenshaw book calm calm yes in the simplicity same choco
store to store from choco choco store right calm anyway this is where you can
get what shirts hats hoodies many garments representative of the path the
path subscribe to the podcast if you haven’t already which if you haven’t
already you might want to just do a full on sort of systems check of your whole
life otherwise just just subscribe check out dance podcast which is called hold
these truths or you can just search for Dan crunch on it pops up don’t forget
about the grounded podcast I mean where we talk about the most important things
in life all kind of related to another thing in life called jiu-jitsu warrior
kid podcasts we’re gonna have one with Dan crunch on it by the way so your kids
can figure out how they want to be directed down the path and don’t forget
about that warrior kid soap from Irish ocean ranch dot-com black soap which is
magically turns to cleanliness on your body
yep counterintuitive for sure it’s called yes Dan question I have black
toothpaste debated charcoal activated circle and it helps us some sort of
thing right I know what it does yes but we know it’s
cool Dane’s my towel we know that it looks cool so but it feels cleaner yeah
I like it so we got we got so that helps to kill germs bacteria does not stick
around yeah and that’s hope it’s called killer
soap and what that will do it will help you and your family stay clean got a
YouTube channel yes video version of this podcast and see what Dan Crenshaw
looks like good good looking guy it’s really good looking you know who
eyepatch new eyepatch by the way its new yeah
just unveiled this one boom you don’t see what that looks like we have a
YouTube channel on YouTube etc you understand also some excerpts on
there by the way you don’t watch the whole if you don’t forward to your
friend go hey hey check out what echo Charles said about this and then they
send him a four hour what is it yeah for our video video Eleanor didn’t they help
anybody oh man so part of the problem at that
point in life we got psychological warfare on mp3 platforms we need a
little psychological creator you can get it we got flipside canvas Dakota Meyer
my brother making cool things to hang on your wall we got a bunch of books we got
fortitude by Dan Crenshaw we got leadership strategy and tactics Field
Manual we got the way the warrior kids series we got Mikey and the dragon we
got discipline equals freedom Field Manual we got extremely ownership in the
dichotomy leadership get every single one of those books yeah national on
front leadership consultancy what we do is solve problems through leadership go
to echelon front comm if you need to help at your business team corporation
we got you covered EF online is online training for
leadership interactive check that out mustard 2020 Orlando may 7th and 8th mmm
not so sure about that one we may be getting some what do you think Dan what
do you think the chances are nine hundred people I mean experts think you
know this is a change in America life that’ll last a month or two and then we
won’t be on the downtrend we can look at the numbers coming out of China and
South Korea as perhaps a guide is you have the decrease in cases happens
hopefully we don’t even reach the peaks that they did mm-hmm
yet to be seen plus we got social distancing slowing down the curve echo
st. e : basically if you’ve been hanging around echo echo thinks that he’s sort
of a national hero right now because he’s not he’s not shaking people’s hands
he’s sort of taken on you know you’re talking about the arc typical hero I
think we had echo Charles over there he’s sacrificing his own
oh yeah hugs his own hugger or not keeping it real
look if Orlando doesn’t go down we’ll keep you posted but then it’s going to
be Phoenix Arizona September 16th and 17th Dallas Texas December 3rd and 4th
and of course we have EF overwatch and EF Legion if you need personnel inside
your business that understand the principles that we talk about all the
time that we wrote about go to EF overwash comm for executive leadership
from the military go to EF Legion comm for frontline troops and leaders that’s
what we do and if you still want to interact with us some more which is just
getting kind of crazy I mean it’s been a long time there’s a lot of hours but if
you need more then we are on the interwebs Dan like I said Dan is on
Twitter and on Instagram at Dan Crenshaw TX for Texas Facebook Dan Crenshaw
website Dan Crenshaw FERC and for Congress echo and I are also there on
Twitter on Instagram and on good old days epoch echos adequate Charles and I
am at doc look echo any closing thoughts no good to see Dan Crenshaw again this
time this time has an esteemed member of an esteemed ste big-time esteemed here
it’s a lovely word hmm I really appreciate it it’s been fun
yeah little longer than we thought you know we got a lot to say man some
tangental things but all good a and um thanks for coming back on you know
thanks for sharing your life story and your lesson so not just here but in the
book and I know people are gonna gonna thank you for the book and I am gonna
thank you and everyone thanks you for your service and your sacrifice not only on the battlefield but now you
know you’re fighting a different kind of battle and you know you and I talk
offline I and I told you twice once on the phone and once when you showed up
here I’m really glad that you have your job and I have mine your job is not one
that I would want and not fun but you’re doing it for the right reasons and I
think everyone appreciates the fact that you’re fighting a battle for the future
of America so that said America remains now and forever the land of the free and
the home of the brave and the same goes to the rest of our servicemen and women
out there freedom is not free and someone has to hold the line and it is
all of you soldiers sailors airmen and Marines out there who keep evil and
darkness at bay and we thank you for that and the same thing goes to our
police and law enforcement and firefighters and paramedics and EMTs and
dispatchers and correctional officers and Border Patrol and Secret Service
same thing freedom isn’t free it takes sacrifice and thanks to all of you for
what you do every day to take care of us and keep our country free and everyone
else out there life is a struggle it’s a challenge it’s suffering and you’re not
always gonna win but even when you don’t win as Dan says don’t quit don’t give up
don’t be a victim don’t take the easy path don’t squander this life instead
live with fortitude by getting up every day and getting after it and until next
time this is Dan Crenshaw and Necco and Jocko out

100 thoughts on “Jocko Podcast 222 with Dan Crenshaw: Life is a Challenge. Life is a Struggle, so Live With Fortitude

  1. When I listen to these guys, my patriotism swells and I remember Most Americans love our country, our flag, our Constitution, our land, our people, our history, and our way of life. All of these things I listed are worth standing up for, and worth fighting for. Patriots don't kneel.
    @Jocko Podcast Thanks again for sharing another great conversation. It gives perspective… during a quarantine, during an election year, and in the future.

  2. Jocko Willink
    when the Lord
    measures a man He puts
    a tape around his ❤

    GET TOGETHER – song
    sergio canal alvarez – channel

  3. If you’re trying to make a career out of a minimum wage job you already lost😂 quit trying to fuck up the game for the rest of us

  4. If it aint Gun control Dan? Shall not be infringed Dan weve been through this. Neocon MIGAtards get BTFOd

  5. Awesome 👍 Hey Jocko. Check out the book title "All Secure" by Tom Satterly. He was a Delta Operator. Awesome book!

  6. Hey Dan, I love you and your staunch ideals! Everyone should look up dancing Israelis to see how much they care for us

  7. Hey Dan how does does giving foreign nations a bunch of money and covering up the USS Liberty incident help America?

  8. As a veteran myself I am not impressed by Dan Crenshaw just because he served in the military. What you stand for after your service is more important. Dan "bootlicking" Crenshaw sold out his trident and the teams to get power and since then has been ruthlessly open about taking peoples rights away every day on social media. His Twitter feed is a long list of his mentality of controlling citizens. He is not a good person just because he served or was a SEAL. In another universe where Dan Crenshaw was in a position of power like president or a king he would be a dictator. He has a Mao mentality.

  9. Not going to watch this one. Dan is a political sellout to Constitutional causes. Extremely disappointing considering how much he waved the flag and his service to become elected in my state. Hey Dan, didn't you raise your hand and take an oath to defend and uphold the Constitution?

  10. Jocko, please look ul the Groyper Wars, i.e. by Nick Fuentes
    Dan crenshaw is trying to sell out our country, and doesnt defend free speech, rather the freedoms of isreal at the detriment of U.S. citizens
    He is a fraud ,
    TPUSA is a sham

  11. The problem is that the communists have been put in place in our school system 50 years ago and have planted their seeds in the minds of our young. This is not an organic movement it was strategically placed to collapse our nation from within. Look up Yuri Bezmenov on YouTube !!!!

  12. Hell yes!! Only exposed to podcast because of JBP- love the shout out and humility of our ultimate warriors!!! Thank you gentlemen

  13. One of the many things I really respect about Jocko is that I've never heard him belittle anyone's suffering because they weren't in the military or didn't suffer in combat. I appreciate that when he was reading Crenshaw's description of his mom, that Jocko really was blown away.

  14. Crenshaw loves war and war crimes he is the embodiment of John mccain’s withered soul in a one eyed body who hopes that israel one day rules the world. Sorry jocko but crenshaw is a joke brother.

  15. Can we get the Jocko narrated version of books?

    Also, can we get more individuals in Washington like Dan Crenshaw? One per state.

  16. Jocko is like a benevolent Darth Vader. I’m just glad Jocko doesn’t have the ability to ‘force choke’!

  17. Crenshaw 2024.
    Could you imagine a Crenshaw Willink presidential ticket?
    Crenshaw Willink "Make America Get After It" "Americans will have a Gi in every closet and a pullup bar in every garage."

  18. I respect you Mr. Crenshaw, I do, but if its a free market, why are you injecting 2 trillion of tax payer money into it? Sounds a bit like Socialism. Selective Socialism. I mean, maybe its not a bad thing after all. Seems as though some of it's tenants have merit. Its not exactly free when its state-sponsored at the time it needs bailing out. Free to succeed, but not free to fail is not free.

  19. I think alot of the attitude my generation and the generations after me is due to the fact most of them have never seen what real hardship looks like,we've only really heard the stories of old wars and great depression from our grandparents, even my attitude didn't start to change for the better until I visited a third world country and seen first hand how more than half of the world people live day to day, thats why even though this virus is terrible in the end I think we will be better for it

  20. I know exactly how you felt as a kid mister Crenshaw, i lost my mother a month before my 9th birthday, which is now 30 years ago, man time flies.

  21. My mother died of cancer when I was young, 18, and listening to this took me right back there, and as I remember that time, I don't recall ever hearing her moan, about anything, hadn't thought about it till "now", I'm 56, and I gota say, wow, she was tough, as Jocko would say "no factor" good on ya mum.

  22. our laws do NOT come from Judeo-Christian religion and "God". Every time you say that you'll get a negative reaction from everyone from a different religion. Every time you say that there's a asshole somewhere around the world who thinks he can misinterpret religion and and claim devine right to abuse ppl. "law" pre-dates all modern religions.

  23. Ive had this surgery; i had to walk around with my head down where ever i went. I had to make sure I slept on my right side. I still have the blind spot that Dan talks about. Granted my left eye is fully functional; i just have to shoot right handed while looking out of my left eye. The blind spot is directly in the center, all of the peripheral vision is there.

  24. You guys should blur out 52:00

    Dont want people trying to lift his phone password from watching the video.

  25. This virus is not just a flash in the pan.. I hope America is ready to lose some hero's. Not to be dark but it's trending.

  26. Ist hard to self pity when i dont want to compare to confort myself. Because i dont like watch someone down to lift me up. But sometimes we had to do it to still feel human in some point.

  27. Some of his arguments about God and religion are very much one step too far. I would really like to argue with him in real life. Animals have morality to a certain degree. Morality was born at the crux of empathy and hierarchy. The holocaust was NOT caused by outside evil forces and had little to do with religion. The acts in it were evil, but recognising this type of "evil" is an instinct. Not a dogma. That is why it transcends different religions. And THAT is something more ppl need to know. and recognise. Bahhhh….I really wish my comments feed worked properly. :'''/

  28. Love you Jocko, & I love Dan Crenshaw, too!

    Respectfully, I’d rather not hear about politics on here.
    Just my 2 cents.

    Will continue to listen to the end!

  29. Great… more political talk. I was really hoping Andy Stumpf was the guest this week… hopefully next week

  30. Your ethos has many similarities to the Army’s Soldiers Creed, NCO Creed, Ranger Creed, etc. The Soldiers Creed does in fact state “destroy the enemies of the United States”. Just curious if those and/or other service or special ops units creeds were looked at for reference while creating this?

  31. Socialism is an ideology that pits people against each other? Bro, you're in Congress and served in the military. The people pay your salary. You're a Socialized Employee.

  32. I heard that Jocko eats his mornin bowl of nails without any milk and that Mr. Crenshaw takes his with a side dish of gunpowder.
    Probably a rumor though.

  33. Gets harder every day to support the Democratic party as a whole…one of these days, they're gonna pull a John Adams on themselves.

  34. Dan Crenshaw might disapprove of what you say but he'll defend to the death for Isreal's right to say it.

  35. I got PADI certified in 83ish, they're probably a bunch of guys and gals that would be very tickled to hear what your standard SCUBA gear was 🤘(KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK)

  36. I like Dan Crenshaw but I just can’t support his support of red flag laws. He’s a great guy just differences in views. Although I do agree with a lot of what he says. Great guy and not everyone will perfectly align with mine or your political views. Overall great guy who fought for this country. Thanks

  37. Had to place this on pause at about 1:32. You know after 911 I was gungho for payback and all that. Young and full of mostly aggression. Then to make a long story short, I began to realize that very few wars probably started the way we were told they started and that the reasons for those wars are also not what is being told. I think those ideas are significant considering the horrors of warfare you are reading about. I felt the after math of war in the tone and hardcoreness of a step dad Vietnam vet when I was a kid. I grew up absorbing the reality of consequence…..and so my heart was always growing toward a finer and finer refinement of life in general and the forces involved. I investigate things, and like Rodney King I ask, :Why can't we all just get along?" lol. But really though.

  38. metoo…On Marcus being on. He has the don't stay down mindset. Seen every speech he has graced us with. Anyway Jocko just throwing this out, Crenshaw 2020 Jocko VP BABY!!

  39. Dan crenshaw i take your guns and sell out your country to foreign lobbies. GOOD train harder be faster train jiu jitsu lol. (And someone funnier than me can come up with more GOOD quotes id like to hear them lol)

  40. Dan Crenshaw for president 2024….such a great guy that understands how nuanced our issues are….and a great sense of humor…love it…..

  41. You can definitely see that Dan Crenshaw towers above Jocko in intellect. Jocko
    at times couldn’t even keep up with Dan when he was talking about socialism and capitalism. To the point that Jocko said Dan was going off on a tangent when Dan was really talking about a chapter in his book. Hilarious

  42. I heard Dan say some things I agreed with .
    I heard Dan say some things I didn't agree with.
    I heard him make solid arguments for both.
    I don't hate him, I don't think he's un-American, I don't think he's a "snowflake" or a "nazi".

    I think he's a normal, perfectly imperfect dude who has a different worldview than I do, and that's totally okay. He's better than most. I wish we had more like him.

  43. Thats one lucky bastard. Theres no way he doesn't end up president with his luck. Only issue could be scaring off all the pansies with all his bad assery

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