Jacob Rees-Mogg on not being Prime Minister, immigration and delivering Brexit

Jacob Rees-Mogg on not being Prime Minister, immigration and delivering Brexit

you must at some point in time in your life have decided that it was good to be a little bit different a little bit eccentric to always dress in the suits to speak in a certain way I just wonder when that was I think a not decision is not necessarily a decision if you see what I mean that I never decided to be different but that doesn't mean that I took a conscious decision that I would carry on as I was I just did carry on as I was and I basically always wear suits I'm lazy it's just very easy to wear a suit you don't have to worry about what I'm supposed to be wearing the next day you see people often think of you as this sort of old-fashioned aristocrat and you're not and I'm not no my family have been living in Somerset for a very long time as farmers and businessman so that's how much of your politics comes from your father who was editor of The Times Oh a great deal of my politics comes from my father he was a very important influence in my life growing up and in my political career to what extent I mean did you and because we all you know a lot of us sort of absorbed the politics of our parents and cities you know often end up rejecting it you you you sort of took it on politics was a major part of family discussion and something my father's often talking about my father had a very to my mind attractive view of the world he thought that the individual was very important he believed in what you might call our ancient liberties and thought that they were worth protecting he was very influenced by John Locke and in this sense he was slightly more of a Whig than an old-fashioned Tory he also was interested in ideas which perhaps is safer territory for journalists sometimes than a politician and he recognized that as a journalist his job every time you write a column was to be interesting and therefore to be in a position to provoke and encourage discussion and that led to a very interesting upbringing because we were always discussing whatever the political issue of the day was and to think it through and be willing to come conclusion that actually what you thought a year before was wrong this year I mean you must have spent your childhood meeting politicians oh listen to them as well because they would have been in and out of the house with your dad subsea right yes who did you admire them as a very young child I became great admirer of margaret thatcher's and in the 1979 election so I wasn't very very young as I was turning yes and my admiration for her continued and still does continue that the ten-year-old to admire Margaret Thatcher well she was very clear in what she thought and she was on the side of the individual against the state whether I thought this through as carefully as that I don't know but you have to remember how well you do remember how badly things were going wrong in 1979 with the strikes with things not being open with placards abandoned around the street and all of that and that she had a clear idea of how to improve things how privileged did you feel as a child he may not have been ours to karate but you were wealthy that's always a very hard question to look back on and answer directly because you don't know as a child how other people live very directly so it depends it at what age when you're five six seven you assume that everybody lives like you that everybody's father is the editor of The Times or whatever it happens to be it's only as you get older that you realize the great good fortune that you have had and so I probably realized that when I was a little bit older but it would be hard to put a specific age on it the realisation that actually other people need very different lives and that I was very fortunate in the life that I led but by the time that you were sort of nine and ten and becoming political integer interested in in conservative politics and Margaret Thatcher I mean do you think you knew then I'm sure I realized by ten or eleven how did that change the way you you thought of your politics I mean that you were better off than most people well again it's hard to say specifically because one's ideas evolve over time and it's very easy to apply retrospectively what I know now to what I was thinking as a nine and ten year old and I probably didn't overthink it at that age I'm sure I didn't ever think you did at that age but the lesson at that point was very clear that whatever the Labour Party said people's lives were getting worse that there was a real problem in the country in the late 70s and that Margaret Thatcher had a program for making that better and making everybody in the country better off and I can now analyze it in much more clear political terms and give a better explanation of it but I think that simple truth was what underlay what I was thinking and so when did the force of running the country pop up in your mind well I've never had the thought of running the country and still dead well you must have it it's a summary if you're a politician well being a member of parliament when did I want to become a member of parliament again it's difficult to be specific about it I know that by the time I'd got to Oxford I was interested in going into politics and becoming a member of parliament but I'm not sure at that point knew precisely how you became a member of parliament as a member of the Conservative Party and I was active in student politics it's different think wouldn't it be an interesting thing to do to become an aparment an important thing to do to working out how you actually apply for it what the steps you need to take on but did you dream of changing the world I'm very interested in policy development and how the nation's future can be improved by changing policy that is if that's dreaming of changing the world then yes I think it's very important to be interested in the policies that will determine how the country is is governed and can improve the standard of living of the British people and what did your father say to you as a boy when you would talk about these things would you know what do you say well you can do it you can go and change the world you can make make the world a better place my father was always a great supporter of whatever his children wanted to do and I'm one of five and we're doing very different things but whatever we wanted to do my father was always enormous ly supportive and therefore yes he very much encouraged all of his children to have strong views and be willing to express them what would be wrong with you saying yes I want to run things there would be nothing wrong with my saying that if that were the actual case but I'm very happy doing what I'm doing I I think want to is the wrong word I don't think people and if you look at treasom a as an example of somebody in the job of prime minister she does it because she has a clear sense of duty and I think that's the right way to come to it rather than thinking that this is something that I want and must conspire if it were thrust upon you and plastered upon me but they might actually because lots of people want you to lead the Conservative Party and become Prime Minister so I mean it's perfectly possible that it could be thrust upon you in some way in the old way that the speaker was dragged to the chair but no I think this is simply improbable and that people will want somebody who has had high ministerial office in the event reality that trees may decide she's done it for long enough that the issue really is where do you have the ability to influence things in politics how do you get the policies that you want adopted and I think in truth there are a number of different ways of doing that obviously the leader of a party a Prime Minister has a very powerful position in getting policies adopted but there are other ways of doing it and one of the ways is to be involved in the debate in the argument and to win the argument it's not all about numbers there's an important part there's about numbers make sure you've got the support for the policies that you believe in but it's also about ensuring that you win the intellectual argument and I think my contribution is better at that point then in a different role right now and so I'm very happy with what I'm doing and very happy to carry on supporting the the Prime Minister it it's impossible to know what may happen five or ten years from now but I'm not looking at a career path towards the prime ministership that isn't that is not my aim because we're having this conversation the day after you've scored a major victory over the government with regard to brexit and your own colleagues are saying well the who runs Britain the Prime Minister or Jacob Riis mark so you have got a huge amounts of power right now as a backbench MP well I think the people who were raising that question were people who aren't on the whole in favor of brexit and Sue brilliant ID Alan and people like that but your apps you write my strong ambition is that brexit should be delivered and liver properly and delivered in line with the commitments the Conservative Party has given so I don't to cry all ambition but my ambition is for one of the most important policy changes in the country's modern history which I think will be of enormous benefit to us so that's an ambition I'm more than happy to run up the flagpole so to speak but it's not about me personally it's about ensuring that the right policy comes through but it is about you know will the real Jacob Riis Mark stand up and in a way because you have this modesty and well I've got a lot more about about your ambitions and yet you are steely in terms of the way you have steered the ERG to deliver what you want you have this politeness and and and yet you know again you are very determined about what you're trying to achieve politically and you know you're sort of detractors say well this is this is a front that enables him to to actually you know kick you kick you in the shins underneath the table so what I mean what do you feel upset when people characterize you as this or you know or do you worry about being found out no first of all the ERG is a team it's not all about me and that's crucially important that there's a range of views within the energy some people are much more tough minded than I am some people are much more conciliatory than I am and it's a balance of where that lies as to what the ERG can or cannot do and in terms of do I mind what people say about me not a bit no I think that if you go into public life you must expect that not everybody will like and at night and that's just the way it goes it's getting nastier though isn't it for you I mean as things get more serious I mean you you you were this sort of lovable character up until very recently and now you're you're much more controversial I've always thought controversy is fun oh you know I there's good things part of political life I don't mind isn't bit and it always surprises me how thin-skinned some politicians are and I just don't think politics can be a good career if you really mind when people throw the aunt verbal stone at you so you don't get offended necklace not ever never really I mean that this is political life and I absolutely recognize that some people won't be my greatest supporters right let's get some breaks it properly then um what why is brexit the issue on which you defined yourself given there are so many that you could have done well ultimately it's about democracy and therefore things flow from it the question is and was two years ago can you change your government and can you by how you vote lead to change in all forms of legislation within your country and as long as we were in the European Union the answer that was no and that the government was constrained and increasingly constrained in its areas of operation and therefore how people voted mattered increasingly little and so it all comes down to democracy because that's how you change everything else and it is interesting that 2.8 million people voted in the referendum who hadn't bothered voting before and they felt suddenly it was worth waiting got a higher turnout in the referendum than in the a year before and you saw the same with the Scottie trip it's not alarming though in a way as well I mean you know you can say this is a really important three million people or you can say this is a minority who took a massive decision for the rest of us no because the result was seventeen point four million people voting in favor but there were nearly three men against 16 points on yeah but there were nearly three million people who thought this is now really important we can make a difference our vote will count and I think that's very powerful for democracy and you saw the same with the Scottish referendum you so enormous down at highest turnout since 1950s in the Scottish referendum because people thought there's really mattered and I've always felt that with election turnouts it's the question of whether the politicians can inspire the electorate not whether or not the electorate can't be bothered to vote but it's interesting given you said everything about going to Fife as a young candidate you know you see people struggling struggling with their health with their income with their children with the elderly parents and all those sorts of things often struggling to put food on the table still in this country yet as an issue to take on for yourself you took on this big question of sovereignty and Europe but you mentioned food the average tariff on food imports is 23 percent and the non-tariff barriers mean that it's really very difficult to import food but there were easier ways to tackle this I've been going for the big institutional change there's absolutely nothing we could do about that tariff without leaving the European not that tariff I mean I mean it people's ability to put food on the table you challenge me on the cost of living and I'm saying to actually the European Union was putting up the cost of living for people in this country or the least well-off and the taking back control means that we can change that which is really important and that it's no good saying that we want people have a better standard of living unless you've got a practical way of going about it and the European Union was lowering the standard of living of my constituents but it is possible that brexit will also lower the standard of living for many people isn't it no it's extraordinarily unlikely it's not extraordinarily online I can't think why you would think it is like you have huge numbers of business leaders a warning that there could be complete chaos that business will come to a standstill and manufacturing will stop because all those just-in-time factories won't be able to get their materials in will carry on as we are how can we carry on as we are when the rules have all changed because it will be under our control we will say it so we will just say ok fine we're not going to enforce any rules we won't have any new rules at that point the whole point of the withdrawal bill is that the rules will be the same the day after we've left as they are the day before we've left and that therefore we will be completely entitled and secure in saying the goods produced in Germany that were safe on the 29th of March safe on the 30th of March you see that this is where project fear has got quite hysterical the idea that we will close our borders as a voluntary act of self harm not closes but will suddenly have a border will suddenly have a hard border where it's our responsibility to check things who is imposing this will have to decide not to as my point you know no I think it's all the way around we'd have to decide – we would have to decide to do acts of self-harm and mr. vladka is not going to build a wall between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland what about the other way what about traffic another way do you think the European Union will just decide not to enforce anything bringing any checks the EU has said it will not impose a hard border in Ireland it's made that clear the checks they impose on goods going to the European Union will have to be in line with WTF standards and that's how we trade with the whole of the rest of the world but they will want to check what doesn't be a matter for them so there will be chaos at the border going one way but I relieved that that's gonna be merged with European Union but what you were saying hold on you said manufacturing would grind to a halt but it won't because we will be able to carry on importing goods we'll be able to carry on the Justin but it's not the view of most big manufacturing and just-in-time just-in-time deliveries come through Southampton from the rest of the world it's perfectly possible have just-in-time deliveries in non EU trade and poor old Elvis got rather caught out there it admits it was admitted by somebody was speaking anonymously from the company that they'd come out in support of the government's policy because they expected to get a big chunk of business from Ministry of Defense they were furious it's not just Airbus there was about numbers of big manufacturers the CBI we're in last week saying look there are loads of people I care but they're too scared to come forward because if they're worried about losing business they see the results of the CBI said the same would happen if we didn't join the Euro the CBI's track record on this is bread you just don't believe them I don't believe the CBI the eu-funded CBI I think people who are against brexit see all sorts of potential bogeyman that are fanciful how sure are you do you ever worry that you might just be wrong it is always possible that anybody could be wrong have you ever been wrong before of course I've been wrong on things yet you seem very very sure of this well I think you need to work it through logically and see what the likely risks are you are in the minority though I mean when it comes to the voice of business the majority of them think that a cliff edge brexit a hard brexit would be very bad for Britain there are a lot of business voices that have backed leaving there was business for Britain not nearly as many though I mean litres of minority isn't it well I don't think it depends what type businesses you're looking at I think you often see that established vested interests one things two stairs there you can call them vested interests in a pejorative way but I'm there at the end of the day they're businesses and there are people who employ but it's really good you know how the people who seem to welcome brexit are the entrepreneurs people to set up their own businesses and why is that well I think it's because the EU is not a very competitive based organisation and Airbus is a great example because it's had enormous government subsidies from EU nations and therefore course it wants the current set up it's very heavily dependent upon it but there are thousands of jobs in Britain that depend on this so you can you can attack Airbus but at the end of the day they are massive employers yes and their supply chain is hugely significant as well so it's tens of thousands of jobs and and so where's Airbus gonna make its wings like it might wherever it wants I mean I don't know but it doesn't matters point is it might be here it would be billions of pounds worth of investment and they've said they only turn it threatened the same before set it over the euro but it's not just business and the CBI its Theresa May and Philip Hammond are they all just making this up well it's very interesting that checkers arrangement was entirely backed by people in fact remained two years ago and opposed during the discussions by people who had been in favor of leave and so you did have the old arguments being rehashed it says something about your view of your political colleagues that you think they will just say something that isn't true do you think they're just making this up I think who you support I do indeed but I think they believe these arguments to be correct and I think that the evidence shows that they are not correct it's really interesting to look what do you think their judgments is wrong what Andy Haldane has been saying about economic forecasting he made a very good speech from about 18 months ago on the difficulties of economic forecasting and where it goes wrong and how hard it is for economic forecasting to see turning points and I think there is an issue with this that leaving the European Union is a major turning point and is the point at which economic forecasting is at its weakest if you're wrong and the economy does take a hit next year what will you do I mean will you feel on a bound to resign what can i resign from I mean I don't remember Parliament this will be a choice for the electorate the electric ultimately will be the judge of this and will decide where the breaks it has been a successful you're a man of honor and duty I mean would you feel that there was something incumbent on you we've just leave it's a vote just discussed I may not know for years to come whether it is well we'll know by the end of next year when that economy's taken a downturn I mean well but you're getting into a really complex areas there as you know perfectly well simple things like GE unemployment if those things go down next year you'll be wrong not necessarily well he said there wouldn't be a problem caused by brexit but there was ladies maybe because something else well what happens if there's a coup in China and the Chinese economy completely collapses that won't be the fault it breaks it so it's not as simple as you're saying all things being equal but will that we will know roughly we've been a Middle East crisis or a Chinese we just assume there hasn't been a choking but we did we discussed five minutes ago that all things aren't equal well if you're saying you know you could get to them to next year and and and and and you get to the end of March and then things go like that and there's something else to happen in March that you guys leaving European Union is going to be the greatest opportunity economically for this kind and I'm asking you what if you're wrong what would be the consequence if you're wrong but I've accepted that anybody can be be wrong yeah why won't you say it I mean you don't think you're wrong so why don't you say if I'm wrong I'll resign and because you're proposing a very simple question on a very complex set of circumstances you're making the other things being equal argument when we discussed earlier that other things to know we will broadly know whether the cause of the economic downturn is breakfast or not we will know at some point of course we will but it's a question of time scale and we – how long we won't know the full economic consequences for a very long time we really won't because they're all snot but having the real will have an indication you'll know whether there's been chaos they'll know whether there have been job losses the overwhelming opportunity for brexit is over the next 50 years it's not over is that how long you've got no no I'm not anticipating living to 99 just what I where we should say time will tell I doubt he'll still be a member of parliament but nothing's impossible it's very interesting that you don't seem to be prepared to put your own future on the line when you're prepared to put everybody else's futures on the line as an elected member of parliament your future is on the line at every election I shall have a great responsibility but the advantages of brexit I happen to think will come through relatively quickly that what the government ought to do on day one on the day we leave is remove all tariffs on any goods that we don't produce an immediate cut in cost to people's budgets that we have fantastic brexit dividend on day one will the government do that how much would it cost oh the cost would be negligible because the tariffs that we raise are what about three billion pounds a year and those go to the European Union in the first place other than 20% we keep our cost of collection so this is on day one no direct cost to us and most of these high tariffs where's the high tariffs on goods that we don't produce mean that none of those Goods come in so what else you saying the government should do straight away I'm saying on day one you say any goods we don't produce in this country to any scale we are removing all of the tariffs and that suddenly cuts the cost of goods people say you can do things and you see this perhaps ties into your question it slightly depends how the government responds which will not be under my control well the government if the government does really exciting and positive things then there's a great opportunity breaks it will do extremely well that there is an alternative that the government decides which I think would be utter madness and identity the government doing it to put the common external tariff on European goods which would be very harmful just to come back to what I was saying before about your your lack of trust and the judgments of people in government if you think treasom a and Philip Hammond are so wrong about breakfast in their judgment why should we think that they're right about anything else I think the Prime Minister's judgment on brexit is wrong is is not one that I I share she has concerns that I don't have and that has become the view of her cabinet I think the Chancellor has been but these are not matters of principle these are matters of economic judgment you just think she's got the economics wrong she's got the economics wrong on that then how do we know why do you think she's right about anything else well I think people can't be wrong in one area and right when lots of other areas this is this is Oh more than my lifetime and I think that the brexit decision is one of the fundamental decisions in the British constitutions history and that people will look back on this in decades to come and we'll see what a remarkable change in our constitutional settlement it has it was being and that in a way is the is the great issue is the constitutional affects the taking back of control and the complication I suppose between the fear that they have in the Treasury about short-term economic consequences and the long term opportunity for the country if we get economic policymaking right once we've left I happen to disagree with them on the short-term consequences I think they've concentrated too little on the long-term consequences who would you like to see running the country if not you I'm supporting treason early I haven't don't want to know you think he's wrong about the biggest look I have hundreds of years well the party decided to support her as leader two years ago because they thought that it would be helpful for the country to have somebody who had backed remain and then decided to accept the leave result I think that has a logic to it do you not find it frustrating that our system of party politics means that you can't give me an honest answer to this because if you do there'll be all sorts of headlines about Jacob Riis mob flossing against tourism a it's a shame isn't it I'm not supporting anybody other than Mrs May if I asked you the question that Donald Trump answered I mean do you think Boris Johnson would make a great Prime Minister yes you would be yes of course I could say that I backed Boris Johnson in the leadership campaign two years ago because I thought he would be a great Prime Minister and you still thinking I think Morris is absolutely terrific but I think the conservative part is very fortunate that it has a vast number of very able people who would make wonderful Prime Minister's would you ever stand against Boris dead we tried discussing that before and you know there's a straight question yes isn't an election I'm not advocating a particular candidate I'm just saying that there are lots of able people within the party to stand I'm asking you would you stand or would you throw your weight behind him as you did before we haven't reached a leadership contest the Prime Minister has the support of the party you think this is what's wrong with politics though you can't give me a straight answer to that question you're asking me questions about things that are entirely speculative yeah all politics is speculative know what's going to happen in the future that's all speculate on I mean I can't predict these things I've already said that I think I am NOT a candidate for the leadership of the Conservative Party but what you're trying to get me to say is that I'm supporting Boris as opposed to treason a which is not the case I'm supporting the Prime Minister she has my support I'm not trying to get a new person to take over from her I'm not conspiring to do that I'm not interested in doing that I wasn't asking you that honestly I was asking you whether you think you'd be better than Boris I mean I the the Boris is a former foreign secretary Boris has been a mayor of London Boris is obviously more qualified to do it can we talk about how brexit was delivered do you think immigration was used at all a dog whistle issue to appeal to racists to vote for brexit I hope not there were two campaigns as you know there was they'd leave and leave dot-eu and you have close links with you could before I mean youyou suggested a link up didn't you I suggested a coalition and I know Nigel Faraj but I wasn't linked to the leave dot-eu campaign I think the issue was taking back control and in the very many public meetings I did that was what I found people were concerned about and I think the immigration question is very interesting in this context because when recently it was jested we shouldn't allow in a thousand doctors everybody said no that's completely ridiculous that we need a thousand doctors and it's about that sense of control not by the numbers or even particularly the European Union and that was the impression I got at the meetings I addressed can I speak for other people no I can't but do you think something was unleashed is the question you know that there was a nastiness there was an undercurrent within that immigration argument that made even people like me feel a little unwelcome for a while second-generation immigrants you know we that we encountered racial abuse for the first time in decades I'm very sorry to hear that I think that that was not part of the campaign I don't think that was an intended part of the campaign in any sense no I know it wasn't in town but the question is was something unleashed you know were you prepared to take those people to have on your side even though you don't necessarily think what they think no I'm not an least bit interested in having supportive racists do you think that was the the vote leave position as well believe me you position I mean you must ask them because what about that Nigel Faraj poster with all the refugees what did you think of that I think the posters were unsuitable for a campaign do you think they were racist I think they were unpleasant that I think you see one of the reasons I want to leave the EU is I would like to take out still like to take more Syrian refugees but it's about control and I think people fleeing in fear of their lives deserve a higher priority than what you may want to call economic migrants I don't think being an economic migrant is not a noble thing to do I think it is actually I think it's a very understandable thing to do and that people who move around the world to improve their standard living in that their families are doing something that conservatives should welcome and admire and he's a very conservative thing to do but that wasn't the tone of the immigration debate was it the tone was economic migrants come here to Spanish which they don't they come here to work very hard I mean I said this in countless debates during the referendum and since that we want to have the greatest admiration for people who are willing to up stakes move hundreds miles to a country where they do not speak the language work hard send money back to the families from whom they very often separated themselves to give their families a better start in life and a better standard of living I know that's how you said there's also question though of who else you deal with I mean you had links to Nigel Faraj you met Steve Bannon you went to that dinner with the traditional Briton group that was very controversial and one or two of those people traditionally absolutely revolting I had no idea about that I had a call the day before the dinner to say allegations been made them yet about them years ago and I couldn't find any information on these allegations I spoke to central office who knew nothing about the organization why didn't you listen to the warnings from Searchlight had you not heard of searchlights I mean they're a very well-known organization I just got it wrong yeah I just got it wrong and you know I'd accepted an invitation they had sold out I felt an obligation to people who bought their tickets to go to dinner and I didn't have sufficient evidence but this was a mistake you see what I'm saying I mean you you you you you've caught it for hours you sat down with Steve Bannon who now goes around advising far-right groups around Europe you know that I've all might say well you know yes Jacob Riis was very honorable things about immigration but if you look at the people he deals no not as pleasant in terms of meeting Steve Arnon I've met the Russian ambassador and his country goes around killing people in the United Kingdom I mean if you are in political life you meet other political figures that's just the way it is and it's interesting to meet other political figures and hear what they've got to say that doesn't make me any more linked to Steve Bannon than I am to the Russian ambassador she find him as unpleasant a prospect the Russian ambassador was absolutely charming no I represent expect Steve Bannon and I are not in the same political party or envelope he has very different views from mine and he phrases himself in a way that I would not phrase myself I mean he says if they call you a racist wear it as a badge of honor that is not something I would say is he not beyond the pale you've got to meet people in political life he was the president United States closest advisor is anyone beyond the pale it depends on their on their role does it I mean I I think that President Trump was right to meet President Putin but that this government had dealings with Robert Mugabe we had tried chess Q to dinner that actually you don't choose who the leading figures in foreign countries are and you have to you have to deal with them and I think I don't think Nigel Faraj is a racist of one name we haven't that you raised that I hadn't replied on I think he wants the country to govern itself but I don't think there's any evidence that he is a racist but we're all those people prepared to take the support of racists to be on their side you know to mobilize them and that's what dog-whistle politics is it's not you know it's not saying that you know any any particular individual holds of you but you know they'll say the right things in order to mobilize them I think if they had done that breaks it would have lost by miles because nobody else would have voted to leave I just don't think the country is racist and that the reason I don't think that was a strategy is because it would have been such a stupid not pleasant strategy and whatever alienated millions and millions of voters who wouldn't hold those views and when you say the country isn't racist he I mean gee gee do you mean at all oh jeez a tiny minority is a tiny minority how many I mean would you put a percentage on how many people than Britain the racist no I wouldn't these things are very hard to know but they do do mass observation surveys which indicate that there is nowadays very little racism in this country and so what do you think is the relationship between racism and being anti-immigration I think the two are completely separate as it happens I think European Union immigration is basically racist because it's European immigration and it keeps out people from the rest of the world if you were one of those Indians Pakistanis or Africans who voted for brexit because you thought you get a fairer immigration system and it would be easier to get your family and friends into the country are they going to get that it should certainly be fairer will there be more offer I would have thought there would be more proportionately but I wouldn't like no no I mean that just means no European yes I think they'll be more proportionately I wouldn't like to promise because this will be a decision that will be made year by year I think there should be but um can I just give the example for comes that of Australia where once they've taken control of their immigration policy the number of immigrants actually went up and it's about ensuring that everybody's comfortable with it and that you treat people fairly so do you think that's possible here that immigration will go up I doubt it will go up immediately because I think part of the taking back control is that people feel that there was too much into shorter period but I think control over the longer term ought to lead to a more friendly system of immigration policy and I hope we will drop the hostile environment policy which I do not like were you appalled by that I mean you came into our debate and I sat watching your face as people told these heartbreaking stories and you seem very surprised pilots absolute shocked I think it's against everything this country stands for see I think very very strongly that anybody who has a British passport is as British as I am it's not a question of whether you were born here or whether your family's lived here forever you're a British citizen and you are entitled to all the rights and respects of a British citizen the moment you've got that passport and all the protections that that brings and all the freedoms that that brings one of our great freedoms is that when we're going about our lawful business we don't have to prove to anybody else or an agent of the state who we are that's one of our most precious freedoms and the idea that people from immigrant communities were treated as if they had to prove who they were I thought was disgraceful haven't really talks about morality in this interview because it's probably another program but you are famously driven by your Catholic faith you're anti-abortion you were anti gay marriage if you were in power are these things that you would want to legislate about or would you see it as your duty to deliver what you think the majority want I would not legislate for these things because they are a free vote and rightly so rightly I come under no pressure to follow a party line on these issues and I would not wish to apply a party line to others but I think you need to accept what society you well accept is the wrong word you want the church to preach what its view is you hope that people may accept that but you can't legislate for it effectively he sees persuade you seek to persuade but not by law not by in position not by penalties because the history of moral legislation is it is simply ineffective but you don't go seeking to persuade on these issues do you know I'm a knight I leave that to the clergy but they have my support in in doing that but now I'm a secular politician and my job really is to discuss income tax rather than to discuss morality as your morality shifted at all I mean all your views on homosexuality different now they were 20 years ago well the teaching of the church is very constant I very much like the approached Pope Francis takes in reminding us all that God is a merciful God and that God's mercy is infinite and that is something with which all one's moral judgments should be strongly tempered do you think homosexuality is a sin the what about what you think I know it's a teaching of the church so he say you believe it is the the the the teaching of the churches it's in it's in the Catechism but what Pope Francis said is that it's not for me to judge and if it's not from him to George it's clearly not for me to judge I don't it's not for me to judge other people but people can read the Catholic catechism and they will then know in their own lives what is and is not sinful do you have gay friends I don't ask my friends about their private lives that's a matter for them and I I'm not trying to avoid your question but I don't categorize my friends I don't try and take a box with friends to try and know whether your friends are I've got white or blue conservative I've a wide range of friends I got a wide range of friends but as I say I don't judge my friends and therefore I don't sort of categorize them I ask all my guests on this program what they think they're most controversial or difficult to deliver way of changing the world is do you have one so many of my views are controversial and difficult that it's an almost endless list look if you'd asked me five years ago it would have been brexit and that's now coming to fruition I think one deeply controversial and difficult to live a view is perhaps sufficient and if you deliver it or if you help deliver it can you imagine any point in staying in politics after that I mean once you do once you do something so immense isn't that it I mean you know doesn't everything else pale into insignificance that's that's a very good question should I retire to Somerset and at this time you spend more time dead hitting the races it is summer said it's such a wonderful place to be it's always tempting to from childhood on Sunday evenings I found it difficult to drag myself back from Somerset to London one always prefers to stay in Somerset and there's no greater excitement than driving back down to Somerset further for the weekend even if as an MP as a working weekend nonetheless there is a draw and attraction of a busy life that means that I probably wouldn't want to do it indefinitely Jacob Riis mark thank you very much indeed thank you

30 thoughts on “Jacob Rees-Mogg on not being Prime Minister, immigration and delivering Brexit

  1. Speaking as an outsider who has British relatives and has visited Britain but is not British, I hope the average British voter is not represented by this interviewer who seems incapable of understanding the reasoned answers that he is given to his questions. if he is representative, then it seems likely that the British population does not understand that it has already voted for cultural and economic sovereignty. The only question is whether they will take advantage of that sovereignty.

  2. I believe Jacob RM is singing for his supper from BJ he has been flip flapping as to where he stands with BREXIT and unsure whether to support Theresa or to condemn her style of leadership.

  3. J R-M is a great Englishman in the best & historic sense. Disinterested in the correct sense. His core value is civility & all that goes with that. His modesty is worn lightly. His self-deprecating manner – how wonderful to be born English it is!

  4. The journalist is obsessed with "racism" (no criticism if they are only racist about white people), yet seems fine with Islamic extremism and terrorism, personally I really don't like those sorts.

  5. Even 5 years ago I wouldn't care re the Pakistani-British interviewer, but after seeing 3 such interviewers on the BBC drive such bigoted far-left question sessions, I find it impossible now to trust such interviewers. 100% biased, 24/7.

  6. I wish they would ask poor people the reverse question. Like how much resentment do you have for the people who actually pay taxes. I know the very poor have a hugely inflated resentment for even lower middle class people. And an inflated view of what their lifestyle provides them with.

  7. Demanding that RM should resign if Brexit causes the fall of the world is absolute lunacy! The majority of the country voted for Brexit and the politicians are honour bound to carry out the decision.

    This reporter is a stone cold loser!

    Why accuse someone of being a liar because they do not say what you want.

    Anyway, vote Brexit Party and lets get out of the EU and really upset these idiots!

  8. I don't no who the clowns was that invented climate change but there's one think for sure that's been the biggest rip off in our lifetime and and it was invented so that the local authorities and central government can get more money out of us

  9. It is bizarre the journalist asks the wealth question SO much. But what can we expect he is the Michael Jackson reporter that just did the worst reporting EVER.

  10. Would this British sell out say the same if he were English no obviously call this common purpose TV well said mogg

  11. This is like watching an interview between Aristotle and Spongebob Squarepants. Interviewer is pathetically insipid and biased.

  12. This disgusting interviewer is purposely bracketing Farage & Bannon with Briton First group in the hope people will think Farage & Bannon are racist. I despise race baiting scum like this interviewer, they are all that is bad about modern day Western civilisation, which is something these Leftists hate.

  13. When will Channel 4 get rid of Krishnan? He is a dreadful interviewer. Surely it can't be that hard to find someone much better.

  14. Even with Boris as PM and Mogg promoted straight to Brexit Minister, without bringing in Farage, Widdecombe et al, will enough Brexiteers trust the Tories one more time? After years of May? Whoever wins, the new Conservative leader will be somebody who voted for May's Deal at least once.

  15. Even with Boris as PM and Mogg promoted straight to Brexit Minister, without bringing in Farage, Widdecombe et al, will enough Brexiteers trust the Tories one more time? After years of May? Whoever wins, the new Conservative leader will be somebody who voted for May's Deal at least once.

  16. "To speak in a certain way" ??? Would that have been posed to a Black man? an Hispanic man? Way to go to start off an interview with anti-white racism.

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