Financial Freedom in Less Than Five Years with Joel from FI 180 | BP Money Podcast 11

Financial Freedom in Less Than Five Years with Joel from FI 180 | BP Money Podcast 11

welcome to the BiggerPockets money show show number 11 it's time for a new American Dream one that doesn't involve working in a cubicle for 40 years barely scraping by whether you're looking to get your financial house in order invest the money you already have or discover new paths for wealth creation you're in the right place this show is for anyone who has money or wants more for this is the bigger pockets and money podcast how's it going everybody I'm Scott trench here with my co-host Miss Mindy Jensen how you doing today Mindy Scott I am having an awesome day how are you doing today I am doing fantastic we just heard from one of the people I've been most excited to have on this podcast in Joel from financial 180 and I think you and I but we both met Joel maybe mid January of 2018 at a very nerdy very awesome personal finance camp down in Florida but I was so impressed with Joel because Joel is one of those people who came from a background of dual income high dual high income high spending and was unable to accumulate wealth and I think there's a lot of listeners out there that may come from a similar position where they've got that you know income of 70 or 80 thousand dollars a year or more and then maybe the two of them and since the two spouses are working but yet still can't seem to get ahead and we've had so many perspectives in the show like Sarah Wilson with her you know low income and ability to pay off debt this really is an episode for that other end of the spectrum with the high income unable to get ahead and I think they just have a really fantastic approach to how they were able to cut back on their expenses build up hundreds of thousands of dollars in assets in four to five years and finish out the journey to retirement yet his story is fantastic because it shows you that you can do this just because you haven't always been frugal doesn't mean you can't start and I think at one point he even says if I can do this anybody can do this you know they were they were spending six figures they were spending more than a hundred thousand dollars a year that takes that takes some effort yeah it really is you know I don't know like how I would spend ten thousand dollars but a lot of people do that and a lot of people are kind of stuck in that pattern and that's where I think Jolla and his wife was until they did a financial 180 given that's the name of their blog is fi 180 and were able to to transition out of that and begin to really accumulate a lot again a lot of wealth to find meaning and begin he'd really enjoys his day he actually just retired from his job after really aggressively starting the journey in about 2012 2013 he just finished in November of 2017 he had been retired for a few months yes and what makes this story so great is that they were going full speed ahead in the opposite direction they actually did a complete 180 starting from I think he said they had about $10,000 in credit card debt so not enormous but definitely starting from a negative a negative spot and now he's retired in five years yes they were making a high income but he went from nothing to retired in five years it's totally doable and we shouldn't tell his story for him we do this every week Scott yeah because we're so excited we just finished hearing great story I'm so excited to bring him in Joel welcome to the show hey good to be here thanks for having me guys thank you for coming on the show I'm so Joel you have an incredible story where you it sounds like you kind of came from this position of very high spending and were able to kind of reverse that so can you can you start from the very beginning and talk about what was life like a few years ago for you before you got interested in the concept of financial freedom yeah so I guess the place to start would be 2007 so 2007 my wife and I she was my girlfriend at the time we just graduated from University and we had our offer letters for a very first job we didn't we didn't even have the job yet we had our offer letters and so we said alright we're adults now the first thing we need to do is go buy a house and so we went and we and we bought a house in 2007 which was not very good timing we bought this house we moved in and we were you know kind of playing grown-up so we said okay it's time to furnish this house so we went and got about $10,000 worth of furniture on credit and we just filled out this house and we you know kind of started living this life where we never really had money before we were we were college kids and now we did and we kind of were like man we can do anything and everything so we we started just slowly increasing our lifestyle and it was gradual at first but it was you know we weren't good at cooking so we started going out to eat you know once a day twice a day we started you know paying for all kinds of services for things so this would be like you know food prep service food delivery service we'd have water service alarm service lawn service it just started adding up and adding up but I didn't think it was weird at the time right because a lot of my co-workers did the same thing and so this is gradual creeping up and up and this continued over the years and it got to a point where 2012 we actually spent in the six-figure range on stuff so over a hundred thousand dollars spent in 2012 on stuff and that was it was a bad that was like the pinnacle of our of our spending where it just got a little bit out of control it was 2012 the year that you got married by chance or what what year was that so that was 2013 we got married and that was a quite elaborate wedding it was it was wonderful and don't get me wrong I don't regret any of it it was a beautiful day but we did things in such a way that were a bit extreme so we got married at Disney World which was awesome but expensive and we are you know we just everything was always new over-the-top new house new cars expensive wedding expensive honeymoon we we just had this thing where we were just spending money because we could and I think a little of it was we want to get you know what we thought was the most out of life and so that's kind of where where we were we didn't we started to realize though through this time that something might be wrong like we weren't really getting the fulfillment out of the stuff that maybe we were looking for we weren't finding the purpose that we were looking for but it wasn't until 2014 that that maybe 2013 I can't remember if it's 13 or 14 but my wife was in a very serious car accident and that's kind of the catalyst that was the awakening that kind of made us aware of you know a direction in our lives okay so you just went through like 20 things I want to talk about yeah congratulations on hitting a six-figure spend yay for you throw a big party whether you know we didn't know at the time we honestly didn't in track our spending we had no idea that that's what it was years later that I realized that that's what we had spent that year and it was like the jaw dropping and hitting the floor yeah yeah I think I might have hit that a couple of times but that was while I was doing these like major flips and you know you got to spend a hundred thousand dollars at Home Depot so what do you do for work because you're spending six figures I'm assuming you're making more than six figures or you know some sort of like going into debt for this so I can dive into that um we are my wife and I are software engineers or at least okay that's what I did and while I was employed and we were not making West Coast style salaries so I we got our jobs right out of college we were making about 50,000 each and then that kind of climbed over the years towards right under the six-figure mark before I quit my job this past November which I guess will we'll get into soon but that's that's kind of the spread so we we weren't necessarily going into a lot of debt we were we were lucky about that I think at our worst we might have had maybe ten thousand dollars of credit card debt what we were just doing was just spending everything that came in 2012 we actually did have a negative savings rate so that was our that was our worst year did you ever consciously think about saving money oh we should put some money away for the future we should invest or was it just all spend spend spend cuz I was a young adult a thousand years ago and I also had friends who were young ago adults who wanted to go out to dinner and go to the bars and just go hang out and go to concerts and I was living in Chicago at the time we have like 27 sports teams so you want to go see the team play and you know it just adds up and it's but it's not like this conscious how can I throw money out of my pockets fast enough it's more like I just want to do what everybody else is doing yeah so so we we were kind of in this place where we thought we were saving because we were doing the 401k match that our company was doing which was I think it was like 5% or somewhere around there five or six percent and so we said oh well we're doing that so we're being responsible so let's just have fun with the rest of our money and we didn't realize that what it was turning into was that we were creating a lifestyle that was really not very sustainable and it was also something where a lot of our friends were latching on to us because of that lifestyle which which was a little unfortunate so for example we would be the pet type to sell people yeah come on come on out downtown with us we'll buy you a drink will buy you around or well you know we'll get the appetizers or we'll get this in that and and it'd be kickin it got to the point where yeah the spending was just really really not sustainable really really unsustainable so I wish I had a statistic for how many people actually invest in their 401k because while your story is not one that makes my heart sing you're still investing in your 401k which is a lot more than a lot of people are doing yeah and we I tell a lot of people like we were in a lot of ways we were very lucky we did not come into our adult life with a lot of debt we we had we both had prepaid college thanks to our parents which was really nice so we weren't starting with large debt in student loans I think the most debt we had like I said was that $10,000 in credit card which was relatively easy for us to turn around but it was just a matter of just every dollar that came in went immediately right back out we both had our vices mine was electronic stores so I would go to Best Buy every Friday when I was feeling bored after work and I'd come home with a new few hundred dollar Wi-Fi gizmo that was my thing I had you know I was buying game systems I didn't even have games for them I just wanted them I you know it's just this this idea of all these gadgets people would come to my house and just be like oh my gosh it's a Wi-Fi you know crazy zone in there cuz I'd have 20 20 gadgets I had the lights that would turn on and off with your cell phone and the thermostat and all the home automation stuff and I just loved it boys I always had the newest phones I always had the newest you know computers and so it was just a lot that was kind of my area of spending my wife's was what we call the target black hole where you go to target and then your money goes into a black hole and you don't know where it goes and then at the end of the month you're like how did I spend six hundred ollars at Target what was it on and we wouldn't be able to really like pin down like what did you buy oh I don't know it's just Target you just go in and you just you know buying stuff and yeah sorry your wife's not special with the target black hole that's everybody who wants it that was she was I should qualify though she's not here to to defend herself right now but she was always the more moderate one through through this financial 180 so back when I was super spendy she was a little bit more well grounded she was a little bit more moderate and and even then on the flip side when I became extreme saver pushing you know an 85% savings rate she was the one to pull me back and say this is getting a little extreme so she's very even-keeled which is a good thing to have in a relationship somebody who's EE on both sides able to kind of keep a steady more steady footing so I'm just the crazy one going on going through all this with the you know during this period where you're spending over six figures and spending everything you have how are you feeling was this was were you living the high life that everyone that everyone imagines or was there but you know were you fulfilled what what was no no not at all so actually I didn't realize it at the time but things were actually getting more stressful because of the life that we were this unsustainable lifestyle that we had created so we had a work schedule called a 980 where you get every other Friday off of work and so we were traveling every other Friday but a lot of the travel wasn't you know international fun travel these were weekend trips and so we would travel to go see friends and family that didn't want to come visit us and so there was one point where we flew to the west coast to see a friend for a long weekend flew back to the East Coast and I remember getting out of the airport from a red-eye and driving straight to work without going to sleep and just immediately getting to work like no sleep right off of a plane and just thinking to myself well this is crazy what am i doing you know this is that so there was this kind of sense of we were trying to find fulfillment we thought that buying all these things and create in and having all these toys going out to any restaurant we wanted all the time being able to see any friend or family you know instantly just drop of a hat and go visit them we thought that this was going to bring happiness but it really wasn't and and we were kind of at this point in our lives this was when I was getting close to 30 years old and I I was not really fulfilled I was stressed out at work and not really finding a meaning a purpose to it all it was kind of just like you do this grind you work hard and then you get out and you have a few hours on the weekend so maybe maybe play with the toys that you bought and that was like or the extent the extent of it and so it was almost like it was not fulfilling in any way but but we needed a push to kind of wake us up and that didn't happen until my wife's car accident so can you tell us about that car accident and what that push what happened how did you have your mind sets and what actions did you take no aftermath of it yeah so a few months after we got married my so it was around the same time that a friend actually pointed us to the mister money mustache blog so I had been introduced to Pete's blog before the car accident happened but I it didn't really with me I kind of read the blog and I was like this is interesting but it just kind of was like that's cool you know bookmark maybe I'll read that later but so then a few months later my wife gets in this horrible car accident down in South Florida she was visiting some family and a sheriff's officer ran a red light at full full speed and did not have his sirens on and just completely t-boned her and she was knocked out the car was totaled she luckily didn't have very serious injuries just you know a few months of physical therapy but she was she was okay you know it wasn't anything too serious but it just got to this point though where we started thinking to ourselves like you know such an awakening that moment where we're we were talking to each other the Monday after the accident she's like I need to go back to work but I'm not ready to go back to work like I'm not mentally in that place and and you know we started talking like man work stinks you know like if we just said I like it's the work you kind of have this realization wow we are kind of slaves you know to to the paycheck and slaves to to the work schedule and so we during her few days off that we had I took some time off with her and we started reading that mister money mustache like together and that's when we kind of realized like wow we could totally change the way that we're living our lives and so that was kind of the awakening there's a book Domenic core two co-wrote the the I forget the the title right now I think it's living an intentional life or how to how to live an intentional life design your life I think is what it's called and he talks about this concept of a an awakening that is intentional and unintentional and so for us this was an unintentional awakening it just happened it happened at a good time for us before we had dug ourselves into deep and it just completely changed the way we thought about money and so we knew within a week of that accident that we needed to change things and so the insurance company gave us a ten thousand dollar check which was the depreciated value of her car which was you know her car was more than twice when she bought it new just a few years earlier but we decided instead of buying a second car that we were gonna try to be a one-car household and put that money into Vanguard and kind of use that as the catalyst to the you know the $10,000 that's just enough to get in there Admiral share you know V TSA X and so we use that as like the catalyst to push us forward on what was a new lifestyle for us that investment doesn't seem to have worked out huh I tell ya it's a I'm super happy we made the change that we did and you know like it wasn't an easy 180 and as we'll probably discuss like hey it's slow and steady and gradual but your happiness grows as your savings crowing the bank it's really kind of crazy how that works so what was your first step you and your wife just okay we're gonna be financially independent what was it so you got the check from the 10,000 other check from the insurance company what did you do after you deposited that in the V TSX is the index fund from yeah guard correct total just for us yeah it's for people who don't know so what did you do after that did you you so now you're a single car family um so at the time we live we still had a horrible commute right so we were our house was probably a 40-minute drive from work so every morning we would read a mister money mustache article together out loud in the car on the drive to work and we would talk about it and we would say you know is this something you know we could improve in our lives is there something that is there an improvement that we could make and we kind of eventually turned this into a game where every single month we would aim for at least one improvement in our expenses and actually at first it was a little faster than that at first it was like one a week because we had so much room for improvement there's a lot of low-hanging fruit but eventually we got to a point and I have a cool blog post that goes into this in detail where each month we pick one thing and we would we would we would just kind of figure out how can we improve our expenses what can we get rid of in our in our spending what's something that we could cancel or something that we could reduce and so the first few were easy right so I had the fastest internet possible I had like 500 megabits a second back when you know this was you know five years ago there's no need for this so I lowered it each month I would lower it one extra notch just to see if I noticed a difference and gradually I got to a point where I was down to you know the the much cheaper plan where the you know I was paying a quarter of what I was paying before and I was still happy with the performance of the Internet we could still watch our movies and whatever that we wanted to do on it so we kind of took that approach to a lot of things we cancelled cable we we moved our cell phones over we eventually got off of our data addiction where we were you know using a ton of cell phone data every month and the biggest one the the one that took us the longest was learning how to cook so we actually had to get good at cooking food that we would enjoy right so it's one thing to go spend a bunch of money on groceries and say this is good we're gonna spend this instead of buying you know instead of going out to eat but if you don't like the food you're gonna end up still sneaking in you know meals you know going out to eat so it's almost like this this boot camp that we went through where it took a few months to actually enjoy one another's cooking and learn how to cook things that we like it really it really did it took a while and you know something more complex than like you know a sandwich or a soup or something you know actual good meals and so that was a that was an adventure we kind of went on together where we had to we had to learn over time how what do we like what do we not like and how do we prevent food waste because you go buy a bunch of groceries and then you don't know you don't know how to efficiently make meals and you're throwing a bunch of it out if it goes bad in a week or two and so that that was not quick that was the better part of a year probably in turning the food situation around so how did you turn you turn your food situation around it sounds like neither of you cooked at all before very little how did you eat as a kid how did she eat as a kid I come from a really frugal family so Mike's my life experiences are different but I grew up I love to cook so this is one that really Kyle with to understand but I know there's a lot of other people who hate to cook too so how did you learn how to cook so growing up I basically my parents were frugal by necessity not by choice and my mom would cook every night every night of the week she would cook we would go out to eat maybe once a month and then maybe once a month we go to McDonald's for like a special breakfast or something and that was the extent of it so my own cooks my mom cooked all the time and she was a good cook and I took that for granted growing up you know I I just knew I'd get home from school she'd say Joel go do your homework and dinner would be ready you know 6 o'clock be on the table and you know I took that for granted and then you know as an adult who just spent better part of six or seven years eating out twice a day every day it was it was quite a it was quite a like awakening in that sense like wow I can't cook I don't take care of myself you start to realize you don't know how to take care of yourself and everything that you were doing to get by was relying on your credit card oh yeah I needed to go to dry-cleaning because I do can't do my laundry so that's credit card I I don't know how to cook so I need to go you know buy food that's a credit card and so you slowly get better at it I don't know about my wife being brought up she kind of grew up with her grandma living in the house and her grandma's a really good southern cook she cooks a lot of good southern food and so she probably had wonderful food growing up I'm sure and but neither one of us really knew that well how to cook so it was something we had to learn together and at the same time while we were learning to cook we also had to learn how to get good at buying groceries so if you don't buy groceries right you can spend a ton of money you know going through that and so we finally figured out that the choice of grocery store made a huge difference and we found an Aldi very close to where we live at our new house and all the changed everything it was half the price from where we're going before which was a grocery store called Publix Aldi was half the price produce just everything that you would need all the necessities it was like it was like half off it really made such a difference for us so that kind of came in hand with you know there's the acquiring the food and then the preparing the food and said we had to get good at both of those things so how far did you go how low were you able to get your spending after doing this yeah so so over the years this didn't happen overnight I think the year after the car accident our spending dropped to maybe 65 or 70 thousand from the six-figure mark the year after that it dropped I want to say to the mid to upper 40s and then the year after that we hit the 30s in our annual spend and we've been in the 30s ever since our most aggressive at one point we had an 85 percent savings rate that was our that was our most aggressive and it was a little too extreme which my wife kind of had to pull me back from the from the edge because I was going crazy I was like I was like okay new rule we're not we're not gonna go out using the car at all on weekends caught weekends or car-free and that that sounds good if you live in a city but we were you know our house was six miles away from anything that you could walk to so that was basically just saying weekends are gonna be you're gonna be a recluse and that that didn't work it wasn't a good strategy and so that you know I also at one point cancelled the Netflix which she was very unhappy about so I knew like okay that wasn't one that we can that we can do there was a few things I got a lot of trouble for that one there was a few things where we had to just try and see so I think it's a good exercise to kind of push yourself like too far frugal and then back it off a little bit to kind of learn where your line is cuz it's different for everybody so we did that with the gym we cancelled our gym memberships and I I'm still okay with that I have a really cool home gym that I've set up here and I enjoy it but my wife really missed the fitness classes and kind of the the group atmosphere and the motivation she would get from being around other people at the gym and so she we added that that's pending back in maybe a year later once she realized that that was something that was really important so once we backed away from that eighty five percent I think we got to a point where between 70 and 75 was comfortable for us that's interesting that's last week we had Liz from frugal woods on and she said the same thing once they discovered this like amazing concept of financial independence they cut out everything I think they went bare-bones and nothing and then she's like yeah you know what I need some things back in I need my seltzer water I need my yoga classes but she also turned it into a game and I'm hearing this a lot with all of these stories that I that I hear is that we made it a game we got the low-hanging fruit we made it you know there's a lot of really easy changes when you're coming from a position of more spendy that are that are easy to make that don't hurt so much you Theo I need everything but then you discover I don't need everything and she's she said you know I'm gonna make it a game how can I get yoga so quit so cheap how can I get yoga free oh I'll just volunteer at the front desk have you guys done anything where you you alter how you pay for things or how you acquire those things like trade or anything like that yeah so we've been getting better at you know thrift shops that was something that took us a while to discover like you don't need to buy brand new clothes and we're still just got your pants getting into that yeah yeah Underpants are good to get it retail but we we started getting into that and then a lot of it was just you know figuring out like how to how to wait instead of that impulse of I need to buy this right now so Liz talked about her 72-hour rule where she makes a list she writes it down she waits to see so I find that waiting can give you the time to see where one do you really want it but then not to is there a better way to to get it can you get it from a friend and so recently I wanted to get a new computer monitor for my for my office and you know you can go to Best Buy and get one that's pretty decent for like two hundred and fifty bucks which she doesn't seem like that much but I said to myself you know I've got this cool thread on whatsapp with like ten of my friends that are like local in town and so I just I just shout it out on that I said hey does anybody actually have a monitor lying around their house that they're not using that maybe they want to get rid of herself to me and sure enough my buddy had a really nice one 1080p super nice monitor and I was like what do you want for it he's like I don't know you know forty bucks I was like cool that sounds good and so you know I I was able to just take that extra little step you know instead of going through the normal routine which would normally be let me go to Best Buy and go swoon over all the shiny new you know stuff now I got to go to my friend's house you know hang out with him get the get the monitor bring it back and I didn't have all the extra packaging I didn't have all the you know that all the junk that you have to throw away that goes with it and it was just a much better way and you feel like it's getting another life something that maybe he would have thrown out or something that was just sitting in a closet is now getting utilized so so that was one thing that we did we we got we got creative though I mean at one point like you said it is easy at the beginning when everything's locally hanging fruit but then when you get to the point where you've kind of optimized a lot you start looking for little improvements so at one point you know we got the low-flow showerheads and installed those and that's you know a savings of maybe you know three or four dollars a month and we we wrapped our hot water heater in a blanket and you know like little things like that like the little improvements that come later and but those can be fun too you know and so it's kind of just a this continuous optimization is what we call it in the engineering world right you're you're never sitting still you're always trying to optimize something even if it's even if it's just a small you know gain and you're in your expenses so I always view the world through this lens of the this pie chart of American household expenses and you know thirty of this pie chart 33% is housing 17% is transportation 13% is food and then one third 33% is everything else yeah so you what I love about your story here is two of the things you discussed are one your commute you an intern you you did not buy a second car and you turn that into a game basically where every day you'd reidemeister money mustache post or something interesting that would help you can move towards your goal and work and then came up with solutions during that so that's fantastic and then with the food used to began to cook and then you made smart rational improvements one by one in the everything else category to go back to this though I'd love to I'd love to know kind of what happened with your housing situation did you make any changes there or is that one thing that you didn't touch because you were able to make such a moods everywhere else yeah so so the house was one that I realized you know when you look at the pie chart and mint the housing the mortgage and everything else is always the biggest one and then the transportation is also scaled up because of that forty minute commute so that's kind of like a has a multiple affect on it so what we ended up doing that house lost a ton of value in the 2007 market downturn and so it got to the point where it was worth less than half of what we purchased it for so we we did not want to walk away from it which we have friends and and know people who have done that we just we didn't feel right it didn't sit well with us and so we said well what what else can we do and when we realized we were done putting up with the 40 minute commute we said what else can we do and we looked for you know some interesting opportunities and one of the opportunities that came our way was we had a family member who wanted in on the low real estate prices in Florida to buy a retirement home but they weren't ready to retire yet and so they said hey if you guys house it for us in this house that I want to buy that to eventually retire into I'll let you guys live there rent-free I mean we we would pay for the electricity and the utilities but we would basically live rent-free and house it for a year or two and so we we took him up on this opportunity because we said well that's really cool it's a little bit closer to work and we were able to rent out our previous property and then also live rent-free in the new one so that kind of gave us a little kick start that allowed us to save a little bit more aggressively for the paying off of our mortgage on that first property so I really wanted to pay off the mortgage on that first property because it was it was an 80/20 interest-only hundred percent financing arm and the which is pretty much that's that's the worst that's the worst mortgage you can get now remember we knew nothing we knew nothing when we bought this in 2007 we were kids we're kids and we had no money I think we had $300 to our names at the time but we had offer letters that we were waiving and that was good enough for underwriting back then so so we walked away from the closing of that house with an $8,000 incentive check from the Builder right because the Builder was like hey we want you to have this house so so we walked away no money down no money in the bank $8,000 in hand in a set of ease so that's kind of the that's kind of the state of things in 2007 hello help with get richer yes credit card that helped with the furniture it did actually no I think we had borrowed some money from somebody else we that money was gone very quick and so we didn't know so so that mortgage part yes yeah that was a really bad that bad yes five years of interest only so no principal payments were going to that mortgage at all so I knew I wanted to get it get rid of it the interest rates were insane too because the the 20% portion I think was 11 percent interest rate and the 80 percent mortgage I want to say was like 7% around 7% interest rate and I just knew I wanted to get rid of this right and especially because at the time after the crash you know interest rates were super low and there it was like we were trapped and so what we did was when we moved into this family members house we rented out a previous one and it was a horrible rental too so forget the 1% rule this thing was not cash flowing even when the mortgage was paid off pretty much like we we it was a horrible it had a high HOA it was it had a low rent so I think we had a mortgage on it of 16 hundred and fifty a month and we were renting it for 850 a month so it was just a horrible over well but it worked yeah if you weren't renting it out at all you would be responsible for the entire 16:50 and you know somebody seven years removed from that situation might be like well that's terrible why would you do that but when you were in two thousand seven eight nine it was really difficult I mean Florida took a huge hit ya know it was it was it was valued at I think about I want to say we bought it for a little under two hundred and at the bottom of the market it was valued at seventy so to give you an idea of how far that fell no this this is a really key concept so I I you know you hadn't mentioned this before so I wasn't sure if this was a big party or strategy but this is actually a major major financial decision for you because you said eight fifty a month was what you're getting for rent right so regardless of what you otherwise oh you're able to now live for free you know and you're getting an extra hundred fifty dollars per month that's the equivalent of a hundred hundred and fifty thousand dollar investment in terms of cash flow that you're able to generate and save on that because it's all before tax or after tax I'm sorry it's just money that you're not spending right and that did help us it helped us quite a bit and and what it did was we were basically trying to throw everything we could at that mortgage to get rid of that mortgage and what it did was it allowed us to pay off that mortgage in under three years which was really cool it was it was something that we looking back we realized we stayed in that house a little too long because what should have happened is when this particular family member who I shall not name for to keep the innocent innocent and when they moved in so when they moved in with us we should have moved out immediately but what happened was I kind of got greedy and I said this is a great thing let's see how keep long I can keep it going and so this person moved in with us they had a full house of furniture and we we should have moved out you know when they moved in but we didn't we tried to keep it going for another two years and we kind of lost our sanity a bit and potentially you know hurt the relationship with this family member just because you know certain people need certain people have different lifestyles this person was a retired person who had a very different lifestyle than ours the time and and so we we should have looking back in hindsight we should have left a little sooner but we did we got that mortgage paid off and we very very quickly found a new house much closer to work which we would live in now and we were able to actually we were able to actually we moved in with with a mortgage here on this new house in 2016 and then just last year 2017 we sold we finally sold that that rental property and used it to pay off the mortgage here on this house that were in now so we're now actually we've been for maybe six or seven months now completely debt-free including mortgage which was kind of a huge step for us and in it it was it was you felling really good to get to that point nice so let's go back to that rental just for a minute you bought it for 240 at the bottom it was worth 70 you it was out of for maybe 200 a little under 200 it wasn't 240 oh okay I'm sorry I misunderstood so a little under 200 it was worth 70 what did you sell it for what did you say two years ago yeah we sold it laughs 2007 summer 2007 we did not get back what we bought it for I we ended up selling for about a hundred and forty 145 but it was good enough for us we actually had one of the things that led us to sell was we had a tenant from hell is what I call it and it was a really bad rental experience that happened just in the year before that and we kind of knew we needed a break from real estate and the fact that it went up to 140 took us to it doubled from its low and we said all right I'm okay it just also happened to be just enough to pay off the mortgage on the house that we're in and so a psychological thing we're like all right let's do this let's just let's just clear it out zero out the debt and and see what it's like to just be completely debt-free for a little while and so so we did that and it was really nice because then we could take this this cash flow that previously went to mortgages and invest all of that every month which was really nice so we had a our snowball grew by another mortgage in size are saving a snowball so nice kind of cool but the wife the wife is getting the itch again she spends a lot of time on Zillow and on Trulia and bigger pockets yes and bigger pockets as well but you know from a mapping perspective just looking at the area looking at what's nearby what are the pricing norms are there any good deals left that haven't been scooped up and so she's getting the real estate again I'm more of the passive guy I really like the fact that Vanguard is never late on my dividend payments I enjoy sitting back and and relaxing she's the more active she she really enjoys the hunt for the good property and kind of that kind of stuff so I I see ourselves probably doing real estate again in the next few years personally I'd like to wait until it you know I think that some of the a lot of the deals that were there a few years ago have dried up but but my wife's convinced there's still some good some good deals to be had if you if you're patient and really know the markets so that's kind of her her area of play right now well I will agree with her there are some good deals still out there and when you are ready to rent properties again I will send you a couple of different articles like how to rent your house how to screen tenants because tenant screening can really help make that tenant from hell not be your tenant it was it was crazy and I mean we even had a property manager at the time which ideally should have shielded us from some of this but this this guy was perpetually late on his payments now he'd be in the in the maybe twenty five day late category so it didn't quite roll into the thirty day and so we charged him a fee every month an extra you know $100 late fee and so he was paying it and so we were okay but then it got to the point where he was 35 days late and then 40 you know the next month be 40 days late and so it got to this point where it was like this slippery slope and like we already days in a month yeah so we've got to the slippery slope and it was around Christmastime and I I wanted to push forward I said we need to we need to evict and my my property managers like oh you never want to evict somebody on Christmas because it was around Christmastime I said okay wait another month another month went by the guy was pleading with us oh you know I have more money coming in but we knew something was fishy because every time we'd go to the property he wouldn't want us to come inside he wouldn't want us to go into the property he'd be very secretive and you know close all the blinds and not let us see and there was one point where I had to put up hurricane shutters for we you know we had a hurricane in 2016 and he's like oh I'll take them I'll put him up I'll put him down you guys don't need to worry about it well long story short he he abandoned the place we finally did get the eviction notice we go in it was pretty trashed it required a lot of cleanup there was really gross stuff everywhere he stole a lot of the interior doors he stole the air registers the smoke detectors it was very bizarre III really have to this day not experienced anything like this but but it was a very long process to the whole thing from the time that he started you know begging and pleading till the time that we we got him out was maybe four four or five months and then while the property was vacant and then it took us another two to three months to sell it after that so it was it was the better part of a year the whole you know the whole process and we were just tired and ready to take a break especially from that property which had a high HOA that was unsustainable it was far you know it took us 45 minutes to get to it if we had to do anything to improve it so so I think the break was warranted I think we learned a lot from that property it was definitely a good learning experience but it also was it was something that really taught us to be careful with what you what you spend your money on if we had rented for a year which is I'll give my wife the credit she kind of said out of college we should rent for a year and learn the area because this is a new city and I was like now we need to buy a house if we'd rented for a year we would have bought you know we would have missed the downturn in and bought in at the bottom so it would have been night and day but you know it was a great learning experience we still were able to turn things around so I just I look at it as you know hi satis 2020 and how can i how can I use what I've learned going forward to to to my advantage so yeah that's a good one yeah I don't hear enough of these failure stories or horror stories realistic I've got a lot of yeah I've got a lot of them actually that's one of the things my blog is around is about telling people all the ways that we've screwed up and you know high-spending bad property choices fancy you know new cars we've made a lot of mistakes but we tend to learn from them which is cool as we go well so transitioning a little bit here can before we transition kind of to your leaving the job the workforce yeah talk to Anna talk a little bit about do you have any other investment strategies besides your you know paying off your mortgage and building up Vanguard index funds or is that pretty much the bulk of your investment portfolio that is right now the bulk of it we we really are big into tax sheltered accounts so 401k IRAs HSAs are great we maxed those out every year so we're really big on a mock maxing all that out and then currently the overflow goes into the Vanguard just you know a normal taxable brokerage but that's the book now that we've divested from that rental property which we sold that rental property so it's really just our investment portfolios and our paid off house that we have and that's that's basically our strategy right now is just having you know enough saved up to live passively and yeah that's that's the gist of it also the one more question before we get to the transition out of work why yeah you know you did you don't mention very much about your career during this time period where you just do you feel like you were fairly optimized on the income front or were you just not yeah not really interested in finding ways to earn more versus spend less yeah that's a great question because the math does work both ways right it's the same if you can if you can double your income you're gonna you're you know it's the same effective cutting your expenses a you really can save a lot either way the nice thing about focusing on the expenses one is you kind of get that triple value where every dollar that you reduce on the expenses also reduces what your expenses are going to be in fi right because the main assumption is your spending is the same once you hit fi and so that can help you lower your lifestyle a little bit so that you can maybe reach by even sooner but the other reason is I think he kind of hinted at it we had pretty decent salaries we there was less room to optimize on the income front than there was on the expenses front we had so much room for improvement on the expenses side so we just didn't focus as much on the income it's not to say we weren't gradually increasing I did switch jobs in my search for purpose I thought maybe switching to a different company would bring me some more happiness in my life and you know it was short term it did for a few months but it also brought with it a nice 15% salary bump which was nice so I do I do tell people because a lot of people tend to stay with their same company for a lot of years in the engineering career and so if you can jump around every three or four years it is good for you for your salary to do so but we were at that point where if we wanted another big bump in the income side we would have to probably move somewhere where to a city where maybe the incomes are a little higher or take on some additional part-time work or side hustle and that was kind of the problem is our jobs as we increased and in engineering they have levels and so as you go up each level and in engineering you get more responsibilities which essentially equates to longer working hours and so our work-life balance as we as we you know advanced in these companies got worse and worse and worse and you can see this you can see this in in ourselves our health was taking a sacrifice we weren't focusing as much time on health and fitness and you know we didn't have as much time and as much free time to kind of enjoy each other and so your stress levels go up your health level goes down and so it's kind of like if I were to try to chase the income side even more the he would have eaten into the little time that I already had so I kind of was like all right I see it I see a light at the the tunnel with the current plan of you know reducing expenses and assuming the regular cost-of-living adjustments on the income side let's just get there let's just pedal to the medal and see if we can if we can get there without burning out and it was close it was to the point where I was super stressed when I finally did pull away from the full-time job did it so did your job know about your blog know they know about your at my plans know so that was an interesting thing I towards the last year while I was there I I knew that I wanted to quit but I didn't exactly know when I didn't know when I was going to because there's kind of this this thing where you could always stay a little longer right so it was like well I stay if I stay until September I'm gonna get my 401k vesting which is worth like another you know fifteen thousand dollars so I want to do that and it's like I said till October I'll get my annual bonus so that's good that's another five thousand well if I stay till November I get you know and suddenly you're like oh well fisty till January I could max out my front load my hair raise for the next year and so there's just this never-ending and that's what I kind of learned is that it just didn't end and so I I just knew I knew I needed to leave but I didn't know when I was going to and so my work situation was getting a little more stressful and my co-workers really didn't know anything about my they knew that I was kind of a frugal guy but they didn't know about my blog they they didn't know maybe I had one or two friends who were kind of in the loop maybe maybe in the inside that knew but for the majority of them they didn't know and so when I finally did leave the story that I told everybody which is which is true I just told everybody that I needed a break I didn't specify how long the break would be I didn't specify you know what what I was doing you know if I would know if I didn't want to say I'm gonna retire because that sounds weird and a lot of people have a hard time understanding that for somebody in their in their early 30s to say that but so what I did as I said I needed a break and everybody kind of knew I needed a break because it was super stressed out and that tended that that was the the story that I went with and the response that I got from almost everybody was man I wish I could take a break that was that seemed to be a universal response and I wanted to say like you can you can't but you know I didn't want to open up the can of worms but but that that was kind of what my story was as I was getting ready to to leave was just that I needed a break and and I really did I didn't realize until a few months after I left my job how much residual stress was left over and that followed me home and that actually stayed in my life months after I quit so it was just wild well can you talk about that what what did your life look like before and after this transition did we do it it hasn't been that long has it no so I finally quit in November of 2017 so just a few months ago three three months and change now and leading up to the the point where I quit I was very stressed and my wife started to notice it even more than I did and she would say like you you are not a happy person right now you know you you are not the fun person that I knew and and it was you know I was on a program that was very behind it was behind for about a year behind schedule over cost over budget and behind schedule and so everything was rushing right so it was just continual everyday you were rushing no matter how much work you did or how good that work was it wasn't enough because we were behind and so I had tried to move to a different program I had asked about getting more people on my program to help me moving to different programs and and the way that it worked at this particular company is if you know if a ship was going down in terms of program you had to stay onboard with the ship and you had to do everything you could and I could have switched to another company but the problem is I knew that I only needed six months to a year more in my working career and in the engineering world you really don't want to sign on with a whole new company and do a whole new onboarding process when you know you're gonna leave them in six months that's kind of frowned upon and because they're making an investment into in you and I kind of live in a smaller town where the companies talk and so I didn't want to I didn't want to get blacklisted forever you know I want to burn any bridges or anything and so so I said okay I'm just gonna fight this out I'm gonna stay on this program and do the best I can but it got to a point where my wife and I I think we were is the end of October we're going on a walk and I was just complaining and complaining and planning it was a Sunday afternoon and she she looked at me and she said you should quit tomorrow and she just was very specific she's like you should put in your two weeks notice tomorrow and it was that's so specific out of nowhere because I was just ranting you know venting about work and it was just so specific that I looked at her and I said I need to do this because it was almost like the band-aid you know where we you know you just want to rip it off and not make a bit and so it was just so surprising and so out of nowhere that she was so specific and said tomorrow that I couldn't play that game anymore of like what if this what if that I just knew like yeah I need to just do this tomorrow and get it over with and so I did not know I was gonna I was gonna put in my two weeks notice until a few hours before I did it and I didn't sleep a wink that night I was so nervous just not nervous because I thought like financially it was more of just this idea that you're gonna walk away from a very lucrative career and it was very nerve-wracking but immediately when I put in the two weeks notice just this weight just lifted off of my shoulders and it was pretty it was pretty amazing when I finally did leave they actually convinced me to stay on a little longer to help train up some new people and everything else but they also finally offered to move me to another program and all of the things that I had asked for a minute I'm wish you have to be willing to call the bluff though you can't go and and in there and threatened to leave without really meaning it and and so they were like oh we can give you a three-month sabbatical and I looked at him and I said I need more than three months and so so when I left it took a few months for me to realize that the stress from work was still with me and the story that I gave in the presentation that you guys saw was that I was making the bed I think in my guest room on a Tuesday and like 10 o'clock in the morning I had were to be nothing to do and I was like stressing myself out rushing to get this bed made and I'm like I'm frustrated and I stopped and my guy cart rate is up and I was like what am i doing why am i rushing to make this bed like and so I was it was like I was behind schedule you know from work it was like nothing I could do was was fast enough but you know and so that's when I realized like wow I need to consciously just decompress and take a few months and so I had toyed with the idea of you know maybe I want to do some part-time work from home or maybe I want to do you know ramp down maybe do you know go to a reduced workweek or something in the software engineering and so my wife kind of made this rule and she's like no no work for you for six months you really need to to de-stress and come down and so and so I'm gonna quite a lot yeah I'm kind of glad she kind of set the rules for me and she's been hinting now like oh maybe you want to do something to to make a little income on the side and it's night and so my goal is to kind of do fun stuff stuff that I enjoy and maybe you know maybe make it profitable do something that I enjoy and it's not necessarily because I need the money I think it's more of in the sense of I just like to feel like I'm doing something fun something something that brings enjoyment my wife and I also tend to disagree on exactly what our fine number is so my my number that I'm basing our Phi off of is a little bit under $30,000 a year and hers is a little closer to 35 and so we disagree because I say look we we've been spending 30 these past few years so that we're clearly at 30 and she's like no I want to be closer to 40 because I want to have I want to have this ability to do more have a more lavish lifestyle and and you know go out to eat when I want to and this and that and I said well you already do those things and so we kind of go back and forth so she enjoys her job though right now and so she's kind of work in that extra year or two she wants to build the the extra cushion on the on the income side and so I said to her yeah I mean if you're if you're enjoying what you do and you know when you lie get then then I mean that's that's the the ultimate goal right to find something that you love and at the same time you get paid for it that's pretty great but um yeah it's also I'm also trying to convince her to like if not quit then at least reduce her workweek and like have more time at home because I want to have more fun like with her let go do you know more things you know with her which is you know part of the fun so I'm slowly trying to to convince her sure well so I have a question you were a software engineer are you Ruby on Rails by any chance cuz we need a Ruby on Rails programmer and I've done a little bit so much I've done a little bit with Ruby I it was not my focus I was a Java C C++ guy but okay you know it's not something that I couldn't learn pretty easily I've used it it but it was more like collegiate level so like college projects and stuff like that but yeah I could totally be interested in in hearing more about this opportunity well it we we are real estate focused you can start loving real estate again yeah we got you a new job well should we move on to our famous for here yeah a miss for the new famous for a new famous the bigger okay money show famous for yes okay Scott I have to start this because you want to do number four so Joel what is your favorite finance book so this book was maybe more than just finance it covered finance a little bit but for me the book that changed everything was your money or your life Joe Dominguez and Vicki Robin and the financial specific side of it maybe is a little out of date today although I hear they are gonna be releasing a new version of this book that's updated but the version that I read was talking about like you know putting all your money in in bonds at you know 10% I was like man that sounds great if I could do that buds it sounds wonderful but but I think overall the message of that book of equating your money and your hours in your life to like life energy this kind idea that you could either be doing your life here you know putting your energy in here or putting it into something that actually is meaningful to you and that really opened my eyes quite a bit and it did have the whole concept right of the big picture concept of you can get to a point where you find what enough is and I think that's the key to a lot of the financial independence discussions is what is your enough and it's different for everybody for every family where that enough line is but that's the key of finding it because you can go way past that enough line which is what we did and still not necessarily be happy because your life energy is being used on stuff you don't want it you don't want to use it on so that book was very meaningful to the wife and I that's a great book going right along with that I mean you mentioned so many mistakes that you've made with money over the past couple of years but what what do you think was the single biggest one of those mistakes that you made so it would have to be the the the house that we bought in 2007 the the town home and I have a blog post about it where I actually run the numbers and see what this had I call it adventures in real estate and so the adventure ended up costing us we lost about a hundred and fifty thousand dollars on that adventure Wow even with even with the rental income recouping and even with the sale of the property and everything else that includes total costs and interest everything else it was a hundred and fifty thousand dollar lesson does that include the eight thousand dollars you walked away with that closing all the line items on the blog post that shows like everything and yes yes it does so it was a very expensive yeah well the lease that most of the shirts here yeah yeah yes but as a real estate enthusiast I would like to point out that this was at least in large part due to the timing we did yeah we had perfectly wrong timing I mean yeah I know but yeah it should be a textbook case right cuz you can't make it any worse if you try it and no in 2007 was like I know next year's gonna suck so I'm gonna buy a ton of real estate right now like it just kept going up and before that real estate didn't go down yeah that was the popular opinion is that you it's gonna keep going which you know I should have researched but yeah well but if you would have researched it you would have seen that yes there's pockets of the country where real estate goes down but for the most part real estate does go up and always goes up and that worse it flattens off so to have you know to do the all this research you would have bought the house anyway yeah no it was it was wild it was a rollercoaster but in spite of that you are sitting here 10 years later retired right yes yes yes yes taking a break whatever you want to call it you're here you made it in spite of that that is phenomenal and it should be a bit of hope and inspiration for people that are trying to repeat that you know even in the worst possible start you can do this yeah and a lot of people say well you know do you think it was and I get this a lot do you think it was the fact that you both were engineers that allowed you to accomplish this you know and I said well no Mike my household income never went above maybe a hundred and eighty thousand dollars total that was with the rental income coming in and so if somebody were to do it at half the speed if somebody were to do this with with just one person working they could potentially do the same thing maybe in the eight to ten year time frame instead of the five year time frame but it's still doable even even with these mistakes it really is I had a co-worker that said oh you know you you guys can do this because you're you know so you're making so much money and I said well I said we'll look at X Y & Z and I pointed to other co-workers that both had two two spouses both working and and I said how come they're not doing it you know you can spend the money just just as easily at any at any stage of income you can spend all your money and it just gets easier you know you find luckily we we weren't actually in that you know once you get to the 250 300 400 thousand dollar income household income spot because then you're friends and and and peers are buying boats and they're buying golf club memberships and they're buying second houses right your your summer house and your winter house said there's always something that can eat your money if you don't save it so I think it works that across the whole spectrum the savings rate it just it doesn't lie that's a great quote there's always something that can eat your money okay so what is your best piece of advice for people who are just starting out just discovered the concept of FI just discovered you know just started working what's your best piece of advice so don't get overwhelmed it's a lot of stuff to take in and it can feel like you are really far away from the finish line but what what my wife and I did we we work together as a team we kind of made it a game and we just we broke it down into small actionable pieces one thing a month that we could improve right and sometimes we'd feel really aggressive and we say well let's do one thing every week let's find another thing to improve but but we we broke it down into small pieces and I think that's the key because when you look at it as a whole how do I get from from here to there it's really overwhelming and a lot of people that hear our story say well wow it sounds like you guys just turned it around overnight and I mean yeah five five years is a quick turnaround time but it's still gradual it still took us a year to learn how to cook it still took us two years to get our savings rate even close to you know being above that fifty percent mark and so this was gradual this was not something that that happened overnight and you kind of build this momentum with you as you go and so I would say my best piece of advice would probably be take your time it doesn't have to be overnight don't get overwhelmed and just start making small changes because they all add up and that's the that's the key here is everything adds up every little expense adds adds towards your goal and one thing I'll throw in here is this story that you've been telling this whole time you track the numbers you went back into all the numbers and there's actually three graphs which I'd love to link to in the show notes in addition to if you have a blog post on it but where you see we show you know you're spending going from over a hundred thousand to eighty two sixty two thirty and then there's a corresponding graph that shows the increase in net worth as that spend as at savings level declines and then there's a graph that shows your expenses your investment income and your your target that you're trying to hit for your investment income and so you just watch those three graphs kind of merge together fitting what you just kind of described is kind of really cool way to look at look at things yeah it's it's very revealing watching the expenses just you know it kind of slopes down at like this 45-degree angle and then you see the asset value do the same thing in the reverse I mean it's it's striking it does speak for itself the charts I think I first showed them in the presentation that I gave at camp where I met you guys but I I just published those charts for the first time actually over on the get rich slowly blog over on JD's blog yeah hang on as a as a guest post and so those charts are there actually right now for I haven't actually put them on my own blog yet I'll have to linked over there available off the presses yeah yeah well link over there um one of the things before Scott gets to his next question we met Joel at camp fi and he gave this amazing presentation and he had this line that really stuck out what is the worst that could happen if you quit your job yeah so the way I always tell people is that my worst case scenario is everybody else's every day scenario right so going back to work right that's like the end of the world oh no sequence of return risk or oh no you know a big you know market downturn or oh no it turns out we actually spend 40 a year instead of 30 that's our real number like my worst case scenario is is everybody else's every day scenario which is going back to work and that kind of ties perfectly to the other kind of mantra that I've been living by lately which is when you are close to financial independence every job is a high paying job because you've already got that giant fraction of your lifestyle covered and so everything else is like this gravy so I could do something fun if I go back to work something low-paying that it's something low stress as well so I could be I joke about being like a boat driver at Disneyworld or you know or I could be something you know like I could make coffee at a local coffee shop and even if it's closer to minimum wage it's still gravy I can still max out a 401k with it it means you know it's it's it's still a high-paying quote-unquote job and so if I ever do go back into full-time I will never go back to full-time if I ever go back to work it would be something fun something that I enjoyed where I could work with people that I enjoy and you know the money wouldn't necessarily be the deciding factor yeah that's the worst case scenario which you shouldn't worry people so much because I know some people want that they want that hundred percent certainty I want you know four percent rule is too conservative I need three percent rule because I 100 percent it's a 99 percent chance of success and it's like well maybe you're working too many years like that's the reverse end of that risk right is maybe I worked two or three more years than you needed to and I that's scarier to me given what it was doing to my health and sanity I'm very close to a hundred percent certain that in event of a market downturn you're better off than your colleagues who have very little wealth yes it's a the whole playing field level is level you know it goes down equally so yeah exactly so I have one more one more final four question here for you which is what is your favorite joke to tell at parties so Scott you and I have very similar senses of humor excellent and hold on I want to turn off my microphone I think you'll enjoy these Mindy I'm sorry in advance so this is one of my favorites so so did you hear that Walmart's givin away all their dead batteries no yeah they're free of charge that's a big positive joke I like it okay every day a bonus one Scott for you what's the best possible gift that you can receive I don't know what is it it's a broken drum you just can't beat it I love it these are bad my wife my wife hates these jokes I always knew these jokes you you call them Mindy I think you call them dad jokes their dad jokes I always knew them as so my friend growing up when we were teenagers he had a stepdad named Bill and Bill would always say these jokes and we call them Bill jokes and so that's you know that were these are bill jokes and I just I think they're great but nobody can stand them but me what has got to say what has an eight eight eyes eight legs and eight arms I don't know what eight pirates I just heard that one at the BP meet up we had last week it was like I gotta tell you a joke here it is yes I'm telling that on the next podcast so no I have to go and and and look at my notes and remember but Toby this great joke okay moving on Joel where can people find out more about you yeah so I blog over on financial 180 is the name of the blog the website is five 180 fi 180 com so the numbers one eight zero and I also have a Facebook that you can link to from there I have a Twitter and yeah I try to keep in touch with people and there's a contact email on there I really do read a lot of my emails that readers send in and everything and I enjoy the community aspect of the blog a lot and so I encourage everybody yeah ask me questions you know shoot me emails with some of your sample scenarios with like your lifestyle and I can help I can help with you know ideas of how to how to improve things how to shape costs how to shake up life of your lifestyle around it to improve things so I really enjoy the the reader interaction so I encourage everybody to come check out check out the blog and hear more about all the horrible mistakes that we made along the way so that you can avoid them yourselves awesome awesome well thank you so much for your I'm for taking time out of your apparently not very busy day now that you're unemployed to talk to us I really appreciate I love your story I love that that line I just I can't say it enough your worst case scenario is everybody else's every single day so if this is an option if somebody is interested in financial independence go for it cuz what's the worst that can happen you have to get a job you're gonna have a job like yeah it really should inspire people to kind of be bold go for what they want to do and it's really not anything to be afraid of I know that there's a lot of fear around a financial dependence particularly lately with the a lot of talk of sequence of return risk and talk of you know doing something wrong you know mistakes happen I make them all I'll blog about them I'll probably continue to make more but you get through them and you just keep going and that's part of the that's part of the journey it's part of the fun I love this I love everything about what you've done and how you talk about it and what you're going to do thank you so much this is awesome thank you guys it was a pleasure getting on here and getting to chat with you okay well we don't want to keep you from your very busy day of doing making the bed I do I do have hobbies right I write music in my downtime I I do write and play music which is fun I write I've got some ambitious goals for books down the way that I want to write and so so I'm having fun I'm not just sitting around I think the joke from camp is that I'm not just sitting around in my underwear playing video games I am NOT doing that did you wear pants today maybe yes I'm wearing pants right now and and maybe the battery is maybe that period of video games and the underwear was a week or two max that was maximum I think it is actually it did you just have no no care and and I I think I think it can help re-calibrate you to to take on some new work ethic okay guys so we out of here let's get out of here okay thank you so much you guys that was Joel from fi 180 again I was so excited going into it and it lived up to all the expectations I had in my mind it was just he covered every base of personal finance income spending investing and and the transition out of paying work into the life that he's designing and there's a lot of talk and and men the mentality behind that I I thought was a fantastic show what do you think Mindy I loved that show I loved Joel's statement I'd know I keep saying this over and over but I love that what's the worst thing that could happen you have to go back to work your worst case scenario is everybody else's everyday life so yeah if you're thinking about joining the Fi community if you're thinking about going down this path start start today start tomorrow start today don't start tomorrow start today yeah and if you listeners are interested in any of the references that we cited please be sure to check out the show notes you can find them on BiggerPockets comm and search for this bunny the BiggerPockets money show show number 11 notes the quick notes well or the quick link is BiggerPockets comm slash money show 11 ah that's what I was looking for yes thank you and so there's some great resources there I definitely encourage you to at least check out those that that link that's gonna be on JD Roth's site for those graphs just showing what mathematically happened as a result of the story that Joel just told us definitely go check that out and then I think for us our homework next is gonna be let's do it can we find a similar story to Joel but with someone that was married and had kids at the same time so Joel did this with a to income no kids household can we find someone that's done a similar had a similar approach and some pillar successes maybe a similar turn around that has already had the kids you know that would be an awesome guest so if you know anybody like that please invite them to apply to be a guest on the show we'd love to hear from them yes and if you have questions about this particular episode or any other episodes you can go into the forums there is a special big pockets money podcast forum where we can just where you can discuss each individual episode so we'd love it if you could check us out over there to BiggerPockets comm slash forums awesome and then we are still a new show so we would really really appreciate any ratings or reviews on iTunes or anywhere else that you are listening to this podcast those mean a lot and we really do read them all so we appreciate every single review yes thank you Scott shall we head out of here so we can not play video games let's head out of here it's been it's but this is a long show so I thought I was a great one though yeah it was a long show and thank you for sticking with us so from episode 11 of the BiggerPockets money show this is Mindy Jensen over and out

18 thoughts on “Financial Freedom in Less Than Five Years with Joel from FI 180 | BP Money Podcast 11

  1. This guy is completely stupid. Those who think sharing 'how to be financially free' with others is 'opening a can of worms' are stupid.

  2. I actually really enjoy this podcast! Joel seems like a fun guy and I really like his story! 🙂

  3. Living on 30k a year is doable, being frugal, reinvesting 10k insurance money – nice…But where do I find a Family Member who will let me live rent free for a about 2-4 years? Then I can rent out my under water townhouse and pay additional towards the principal!

  4. I don't know if it's just me, but, this guys story doesn't add up. He's investing in the stock market, which sort of sucks, and doesn't have half the returns that real estate investing has. Also, he said that he earns and lives off $30 a year and he was able to retire based off this.

  5. Earning a high income in the first place, who’d ever think that’ll get you to reach financial freedom. Gee, what a concept.

  6. This guy's story really isnt that inspiring at all. He started with no debt, had a pretty good job and so did spouse, then got offered a free house to live in. Then sell your home at a massive loss and financial freedumb will come bahahahahaha. Get a better guest next time

  7. My experience is after 22 years our 401 k and other IRA have averaged 5.6% and 6.2%. Not the "double every 8 years" like I was told when I was 24.

  8. Hi. How to make money with HashFlare 2018 mining Bitcoins !

  9. I'm starting to enjoy this show (watched all). Mindy makes my speakers distort not sure why. I'm using a Samsung Note 9 but she also make my home sound bar do it too. I have to turn it down REALLY low. Hope this helps…I'm sure I'm not the only one. As always keep up the good work!

  10. Okay… bought a 200k house, moved into relatives house while renting out his house, paid off mortgage with rent money and their savings from being frugal. Sold house for 50k less than he bought it for, bought a different house for 140k. He Invested 10k… this gave him the ability to quit his job and be financially free. 🤔🤔🤔

    I’m newer to BP but this Financial Freedom story seems premature.

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