Episode 89: What Fascism Looks Like

Episode 89: What Fascism Looks Like


it’s you know what I think it is I think
it’s chicken shit yeah yeah yeah they’re scared of losing
the power that they have and the Republican Party is betting their souls
on Donald Trump that’s why when you know you really self-destructive behavior
it’s why I encourage that because I love you I’m never going to tell you hey I
love you maybe that thing does not feel great for you know that’s not what love
is what up world I’d restart my recording beautiful epic pause welcome to the 89th
episode of the America cast today is Thursday July 18th 2019 for those of you
listening in the future or in the super past you brought some weird technology
with you went back in time who knows anyway well save as’ I’ll save it for
our big Tech Talk you know coming in the future well today today we are gonna
talk about something entirely different we’re gonna talk about fascism yeah very
different entirely different though teas for the teas for the podcast I don’t
know have we ever discussed that on this pod once in the 89 episodes
mmm fascism or how technology can enable fascism Wow so this is gonna be this is
gonna be a great like foundation for that conversation indeed today we have
mr. John Kelly in Colorado Lakewood area how are you today sir I am
doing well doing well glad to be back sorry sorry we took some
time off guys but good to be back listeners it is nice to be back this is
nice to hear your voice as it is yours up in Evergreen Colorado
John interesting how are you today oh hey I am uh I am doing well listening to
your smooth transitions through this intro thank you it’s it’s lifting my day
well it’s gonna lift us right on over to you know he named it Berkeley California yep the gang’s all here
gang’s all yeah we got the the og crew in the house
and soon to come some more guests some exciting new guests and some cool
discussions so thanks for tuning in keep listening and we’re gonna jump right
into it oh and I guess I should introduce myself
keep your host Blake Mannion hello it’s me the guardrails the host with the most
who wants to tell us about Trump’s little rally that happened last night I
was not fortunate enough to watch it so I didn’t watch it either because I don’t
want to contribute to the ratings of fascism no meaning this fascism rally
will unfortunately be televised but yes so this whole thing start dusted got lit
off when Trump tweeted I quote this was wooden was this this was July 14th so
four days ago so interesting to see quote progressive Democrat Congress
women who originally came from other from countries whose governments are a
complete and total catastrophe the worst most corrupted internet anywhere in the
world if they even have a functioning government at all how loudly and
viciously telling the people of the United States the greatest of my blah
blah blah don’t want to dignify the rest anyways he told four US citizens to go
back to their countries right three large that are born here one’s a
naturalized citizen so that’s like important now I don’t know if this is
correlated at all but these women happen to be women of color and so it was
correlated back to it I’m gonna say yes so then our dear supreme leader uh had a
rally last night in Greenville in which there was a chant sinned her back in
reference to a lon Omar congresswoman from Minnesota and Trump seemed to
rather relish in it although today he is backed
off of it and said I would try and stop it if it happened too good and I
actually Baba but he’s been gaslighting about it today so we are particularly
concerned about this rally because send her back and the things around it are a
fairly good we we I think to speak for the podcast believe this is a notable
step in the fascist tendencies of some of our government and some of our
populist yeah yeah yeah I agree it uses pretty usual language in terms of how
white supremacists in the United States talk about immigrants and people of
color it’s a very often used trope go back to your country you know like our
country just go back to yours and fix yours right something that it’s been
said for hundreds of years in this country which may be but it’s still it’s
still around and what I think before you too much bore into just the language
itself I want to say that what scares me most is that this is the beginning of
the actual election season really for Trump and it’s a it’s a scary thing to
think about that if this is how it’s stoking the flames with his supporters
already now that it’s going to get very ugly between now in the election next
November can we just quickly note how ironic it
is to have people who fly Confederate flags tell people to go back to their
country yes very very ironic and let’s Kelly pointed out that that sentiment of
go back to your country has been used for hundreds of years and also like just
to name some like a key moment is like during school segregations and the
integration in the South they would stand outside and chant go back to
Africa like I mean you know it’s been a consistent thing to right so it’s not
like oh we forgot about it at Cape at it’s like no it’s been a consistent yeah
I mean not to interrupt each other go ahead I was going to say I grew up
knowing that that is something that you don’t say yeah like that is racist
yeah historically in the US it has been a through-line
the the very meaningful difference between now and the rest of American
history is that sentiment is backed by the power of the presidency right and
that’s where it becomes super scary because typically this has been a
minority force in our country that sways politics towards the right but they had
no real power you saw this with like George Wallace or Joseph McCarthy but
they never became president and they never used it to as a political cudgel
and so that’s where because I think some some some listeners might be like oh
well then if this is typical for the US what should we be worried about the
thing that scary is this is now backed by institutional power yeah yeah much
and much more blatantly than we’ve seen in the past I would say that in some
ways in the past it absolutely was backed by authority both at the state
and federal level but it’s it’s the first time in our lifetimes for sure
that we’ve seen it so blatantly on a national stage and I’d also like to say
I love the irony comment John it’s it’s it’s doubly ironic it just drips of
irony that there it’s also the same people telling them fix your own country
if you don’t like it and all these people are American citizens yeah yeah
well it’s it’s triple irony dripping because unless you’re an indigenous
person all of us are from yeah just go watch the movie Gangs of New York yeah
so what’s important about this also I think what’s important about this is is
to then really to dig a little bit deeper into it for people if you because
you have to follow the thing okay so if you’re saying go back to your country
but we’re all immigrants that doesn’t actually make any sense so what are you
actually saying you’re telling not in white
people to go back to their country is exactly what they were doing which is
why it’s extremely racist right so that’s that’s like you’ve got to follow
it to the end because some of you were like well what do you mean I mean now
yeah like when you set up an extreme uttering of groups of people just
because they don’t look or believe like you yeah there you go yeah and it and
we’re and we’re not here to completely just degenerate right the ideals of the
United States or the history of the United States but it’s important to know
that the this is a very real thing that has happened throughout our history that
there’s always been groups of power that have felt threatened by new immigrant
populations changing demographics and have reacted this way time after time
it’s a pretty clear cycle actually when you look back and I think it’s really
important to know that history because I think despite all of the horror of the
past we can see some progress there and so like I think that you can tell that
story and Barack Obama was the master at this of telling the complexity of the
story acknowledging the horrors of it while still ultimately making it a story
of optimism and that is where that is to me like where my red white and blue
heartstrings just flutter and like I’m so into that story of America the more
perfect union story of America and that’s what I find so abhorrent about
make America great again because it’s it’s it’s so antithetical to like the
way I view progress and time it’s know we’re going forward we’re making things
better in the future that is our mission as like ordained from the founders and
you’re saying no we’re taking everything back and to me that is a fundamental
betrayal of the founding of the country and the ideals that you can trace from
the founding to the civil war to the civil rights movement to Barack Obama
that is a through-line that Donna
Trump is trying to completely strike out and that to me is one of the most
important things about this entire madness that we’re in yeah yeah and and
you know there’s yeah there’s a you know so there’s lots of articles I wasn’t
published about the about the rally last night but there’s one by the Huff Post
that I believe is titled Trump held a fascist rally fascist Trump rally in
Greenville Greenville there you go and you know good on HuffPost those leftist
radicals yeah they’re pretty blatant about it but good on them for calling it
what it is but one of the things that they do is they tell you that article is
they they interview or they get some quotes from people who you know study
fascism and you know it’s important because some of you like you’re just
calling people fascist and I’m like have you have you ever read anything about
fascism do you do you know anything about it do you know what it is do you
know what it is yeah no no but I do know that Democrats want
to take my guns well often fascist governments also want to take your guns
but besides the baddest beside point that’s right that’s not yeah but the the
pieces I things like like important there’s I mean obviously we should all
do our own reading and research about these things and the people who do this
for that I live you know understand this who study this sort of thing as like for
living and writing books on it they understand because there are patterns
that’s why there’s a name for the thing because there are patterns to it and
then hey look something’s happening let’s have a word to refer to it as
something and then hence there are patterns you can look at other things
and go hey does this fit the pattern and if it fits the pattern then that’s what
that thing is right so what’s happening and these people who are experts were
like yes this fits the pattern and in fact it’s scary because it’s a new let
it’s it’s increasing it’s a new level we’ve been you know people have been
talking about a since Trump started his campaign in 2015 have been
like he’s using fascist rhetoric he’s doing these tactics and it is continued
to escalate and these scholars are basically saying it’s this is an even
higher escalation you know and for me he’s holding a rally which we’re
actually are getting into election season but he’s been holding rallies not
during election season let’s let’s also point out that he filed for reelection
the day after inauguration so that he could start bringing in campaign finance
so he can start fundraising so that he could then turn around and book venues
of his own for these types of rallies so that it goes back into his pocket
turns out it’s a fucking Ponzi scheme yeah fucking crook he’s a fucking crook
yep yeah yeah but I mean you’re totally right Tyler it’s it’s it’s amping up and
that’s why I was excited to see the the debate and the reaction that happened in
the house over kind of condemning Trump over the tweets before the rally
happened I and for your listeners hopefully you were following it as well
but it got a little lively between the Democrats and the Republicans when it
came to that debate on the House floor and you look at it and you know I
consider myself to be a left-leaning person that’s in the middle of it tries
to be in the middle on a lot of things but the response by Republican lawmakers
on this is just it’s abhorrent it really is to borrow your work John it really is
it’s a you know what I think it is I think it’s changed shit yeah yeah yeah
they’re scared they’re scared of their constituencies there and they’re scared
of losing the power that they have and the Republican Party is betting their
souls on Donald Trump nyeeeeehhh I cannot remember I was just
walking past the television and heard this on MSNBC anyways I can’t remember
the source of this but this guy was saying
texting with a Republican congressman and was like why are you not continuing
this racist tact and the text message he got back was the primary filing deadline
day plus one so it is I’m gonna keep my fuckin mouth shut until I know I don’t
have a primary challenger and then I’ll say something well yeah yeah talk about
having no fucking backbone talk about having chicken share values whatsoever
buy no fucking world compass yeah this is not a time to play politics you know
I mean like sure I mean we all know politicians are gonna play politics
whatever they do it that’s the thing is the thing is is that it’s such a
fundamental challenge to what the United States is supposed to be about on our
set of values and our structures and our institutions that we have is that the
Republicans most of them could still get reelected they could run someone else
kick trump out they could probably still win the national election anyway just
cuz how voting is in a lot of states if they could convince couple states to not
go for Trump they could probably still win but they’re too scared to do that
yeah yep I how do you guys feel about that did anybody catch that op-ed in the
New York Times I’m trying to remember the author but she was basically saying
that Alexandria Acacio Cortes AOC was like the perfect catalyst to get Trump
reelected it’s it’s not it’s not a bad argument when I mean that how she polls
I don’t know I am sympathetic to that argument I understand it intuitively I
think it is for sure correct in 1996 but I don’t know we might be living in a
time where there is no more political middle and the only thing that matters
is political mobilization and she’s probably
on net better mobilizer for the left and she is the right although I think
reasonable people could disagree about that I think ultimately and then here’s
another thing is Republicans are gonna find their AOC anyways like we’ve seen
this front with Barack Obama Barack Obama was like the most moderate think
about this we put up Merrick garland who is the most nominative all Supreme Court
justice in the world and Mitch McConnell didn’t even give him
a hearing so like I don’t think we should be chasing around Republicans
trying to get to like the moderate I think we should just do our own thing
and try and win the argument yeah and I think the other thing that’s happening
that I want which is just like like you know all of this is an ideological
battle for what the United States is and what like what we’re doing here like
what we’re doing here is a culture you know so so like you know I understand
it’s like okay she’s like two like me a chief or a lot but it’s but it’s also
like it’s like whoa but she’s exactly see saying all the things that many
people think are needed and she’s putting forward policies that a lot of
people agree with and of course a lot of people also disagree with those things
and it can be like oh well yeah like see this she’s part of the Democratic Party
and these things but it’s also like yeah that’s what the Democratic people on the
Left want to be and so I think that it’s hard because what I don’t like about
that argument play because if people been using that argument or ever saying
yes that’s a way moderate or even look where we are we’ve done nothing but go
further and further right everyone are saying be more moderate people know you
can’t be too far and what’s happening in that conversation we’re just going
further and further further right so I don’t say I think that’s I think that’s
been proved patently false because we have been going to the middle Hilary
fucking Clinton you know I mean like there are so many times the democratic
price been like okay let’s do that thing and it’s not working but I also I I
agree with all of that but I also think that we cannot it is possible to swing
too far the other way we need to like have a message and and have policies
like the minimum wage that I think can speak to both the inner-city
quote-unquote and rural poor which by that I mean like white and black and
white and minority poor people right Ellie were you trying to get a word in I
was but I was gonna wait for Jonathan’s point why wasn’t it called a fucking
status book you yeah I mean I think the conversation is spot-on I would argue
that reading a lot of the policies from AOC
I don’t think she’s that far left as a lot of people make her out to be it’s
more the system that Tyler’s talking about because the Republican Party has
gone so far right and because the Democrats basically have to be this
all-encompassing party of everybody in the middle all the way to the far left
even people in the middle right all the way to the far left that now someone
who’s kind of Center – maybe a little left within the Democratic base and
discussion within the Democratic Party seems like an extreme do a lot of people
and so you know it’s it’s it’s a real issue when you have a party that
represents a very small amount of the actual population the actual viewpoints
within a country hold so much power you have to question whether or not a really
representative democracy is established and whether or not we are living in
something where real change can happen to bend to a people’s will right cuz
really what you’re looking at is the minority running the country yeah I
think we might be giving land too much votes in the Senate so maybe we should
bring in like DC in Puerto Rico and some other shit and let’s balance it out a
little bit yeah can I can I title the song it also really gets my good yes
unlike that in terms of fascism so so this is this I I’m gonna say something
and this is fascist and I have people with you
what do you mean and I’m gonna tell you what I mean America love it or leave it
that fucking thing which there are people if you read this article there
are people wearing a t-shirt that’s fascist that’s fucking fascist the idea
that like the government and the country is infallible he’s a fucking fascist
ideology pure and simple there’s no like that’s the thing the motherland all that
shit the fucking Aryan Nation that shit that’s the thing it’s like oh it this is
the perfect society and we and like we nice need to like get the people out who
are not part of the perfect society and that will solve our problems that’s a
fascist ideology also you know you guys we know we’ve all been friends for a
while you know me dude I love you guys so much so that’s why when you know you
do really self-destructive behavior it’s why I encourage that because I love you
I’m never going to tell you hey I love you maybe that thing is not so great for
you nah dude that’s not what love is enabling description couldn’t be more
spot-on couldn’t be more spot-on beautiful thank you – Wow
we’re taking us down that road yeah man I’m like tired from that journey so somebody John okay I yeah I was gonna
say that I was glad John that you brought up the the minimum wage and what
it could do for people that are confirmed Republicans and people who are
outside of really an understanding of the system what it could do to bring
them to sort it back towards reality I think a little bit with the poor rural
poor and it’s a I think it’s a mitigation for automation which i think
is incredibly important yangyang ubi life so yeah although yeah get the boot
off the throat man I will say just to be you know the conservative
liberal I don’t feel great about just doing like a blanket 15 minimum-wage I
am sympathetic to like rural communities where that might not make as much sense
as it does in like Manhattan absolutely it’s a very good point so like I would
love if we were able to tie it to the cost of living and that way it would be
a we would be able to change the amount of that wage per year to keep up with
things like inflation and the change of cost of living in certain communities
and so that might even mean that you get more than $15 in some communities but I
would like it to be a little bit more let’s say like regionally means based
but that is also more it’s also that way it’s more of a community policy
everybody eyes into it right in communities where the higher standard of
living you need more to subsist on a minimum wage right versus rural
community where you need less right yep it’s that everybody’s coming together
and agreeing that yeah people need help and you know there’s not always going to
be jobs that will support people and support families the way that the wealth
of the United States should support I think the goal of the United one of the
major goals the United States government is to create a economic environment and
a societal environment where if you work 40 hours a week no matter what you’re
doing you can afford a middle-class life and we should be making economic
policies that get us closer to that ideal and I think that this ultimately
gets us there closer anyways I mean yeah and I hate to sound too much like a
socialist because I don’t consider myself like a socialist by any means but
when you look at it you’re like yeah okay so billionaire can buy two more
yachts or four hundred families could feed themselves for a year oh yeah no I
was like I mean it’s pretty easy very simple mathematics at that point yeah
there’s no reason to oh to have over a billion dollars I think
you should to have a hundred percent of your income personal income taxed over a
billion dollars you should be able to win the capitalism game get to a billion
dollars and then you’re done and then we’re gonna feed more people yeah and
then you can you can you get a card that lets you buy whatever you want
what is the what is the marginal difference between one and two billion
dollars in Seng um it’s nothing no practical reason and then you put that
up against like yeah this kid like can’t afford their insulin yeah and so fuck
off we’re gonna tax you 100% of your income
over a billion dollars I think I think yeah I mean I think in like overall
increasing wages is extremely important and like but and it’s more complex
however maybe there’ll be great intensive classes think about it if we
increase the minimum wage to fifteen wouldn’t that then inflate the dollar
destabilize the world economy and then capitalism would collapse yes butyl ism in Europe I know the communist
conspiracy is technology and automation and then we get the ubi if it’s
communism and then everybody wins we gotta go forward not backwards I like it
I like it how about this one if a universal basic income is put
across the board it increases our rate of consumption and increases our co2
outputs increases our effect on the environmental biomes we live in and we
just kill the planet faster how about that one because then I would just count
the way the way you deal with that is you target a bunch of bad behaviors and
you tax the fuck out of them like a carbon tax and so then and you take you
take the price of gas up to like five dollars a gallon and then you you
reimburse American families with that tax and so that way you D incentivize a
lot of bad behaviors you would think that the party if you if you if you put
if you put both in at the same time though you put a ubi in and those taxes
and on the same time won’t the classes still be dealing with basically
the same amount of purchasing power relative to rich people probably not
because we’re going to means test all of the sin taxes so so no because Kelly
Kelly John’s whole argument is null and void because he said we need to go
forward not backwards and times the flat circles that’s impossible mic drop this episode you realize
nothing has changed yeah it’s actually not the end we just restart at number
one oh wait can I can I can I actually bring us back to fascism for for that to
close this pod yes yeah I saw a discussion of fascism on the Internet’s
in which someone dropped the meme which you may have seen it is a picture of Hitler and it says everybody everyone on
the Left thinks that everyone on the right are Nazis which is not true but
let’s just go to me and then there’s and then the next picture says it’s a
picture of Stalin and it says everyone on the right thinks that everyone on the
left are communists and then below is a picture of Brad Pitt
from Fight Club saying I’m just sitting here looking looking at a country full
of idiots falling falling for the divide-and-conquer now let me just
relive internet beams oh my god what a great me I’m gonna use that and I was
just like I hope I respond to this and I was like no I’m not wasting no but
here’s the thing Nazis and fucking Soviets quote-unquote communists they
were not the Soviets we’re both fascist you dumped yes it looks like a spectrum
on a line but it’s not that’s I mean that’s what it’s way too
easy its way it’s Tyler this is that meme that’s low-hanging fruit man next
time you’re considering whether or not someone on the other side is doing
something ask yourself is it fascism and you may have to go look up what fascism
means yes and then and then and then look at your own political leanings in
the mirror and ask yourself are some of the things that I’m seeing in this other
person in their political belief system similar to some of the things that I
believe in and you might be getting close to that same point okay
can we can we talk about that real quick in a funny way so I have been going
through and rewatching Game of Thrones now that I know the ending like no
spoilers I don’t even know the ending oh I know I know I know this point spoiler
free for the most part you all just I’ll just take my headphones out for a second
I’ll just let you talk you straight just do that awesome
yeah do that well wave our arms when we’re ready
spoiler alert everybody spoiler alert you have five four three two one
so I’ve been going back and I think that khaleesies fall is actually more obvious
in retrospect then it is when it’s happening and I now almost view Game of
Thrones is like a cautionary tale about fascism because like I was rewatching
the episode where she burns all those slavers and I’m like book yeah when it
first happened I was like do it burn those motherfuckers and then having you
know seen what happened I’m like oh I guess is frivolous but also like I can
fall prey to these things as well and so we should all be like pretty aware of
those things and I think checking ourselves in even mundane ways and
because we are all like susceptible to that
tink of humanity that’s a girly good point bring Kelly back now yeah I mean I
I hope he finished the books too and then I can you know during the
conversation say is that I’m glad I guess that it’s become such a global
phenomenon I wish more people listened to me when I told him to read the books
but you know it’s fine not better everybody’s got a none of everybody’s
got the patience it takes to read a book these days unfortunately speaking of
that look at our booklets are on the interwebs check it out and we may in the
near future we will see at some point in the future maybe near future maybe far
future maybe neither because times the flat circle but at some point we will
have a Tech Talk not a tech question pep talk if time is a flat circle does a
future exist no all points inside of time has been and will happen yeah
everything existing at the same time exactly Kelly thank you okay sweet yeah
so so it’s only on your detention it’s only our perception in which so it
depends on what level you’re talking about John if you talk about our
perception there’s a past or as a future but if you’re talking about ultimately
no all of those things have already happened and yeah all possibilities
everything has already occurred so ultimately we’ve already done the tech
talk I wonder how it you guys I know great just like Oh listeners listeners
tell us how but you got to come back slaughterhouse-five by Kurt Vonnegut
there’s a whole race that dope don’t live through time they live in the fifth
dimension which is a whole new way to think about space and time you ever try
to visualize higher dimensions it’s hard alright actually physically impossible I
believe that’s why math is a thing Hey you guys math most successful language
in history oh my god thank you I think on that note we’re gonna wrap that up
thanks for listening this is just a short little sweet episode to jump back
in and say hello to everybody we will be back soon with some more fascinating
conversations thank you everybody for joining us please give us a like write
us a review send us a nice note give us a critical thought we liked it all and
go punch anafi in the day Godspeed everybody so it’s thought I’d end on that nice now

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