Do we need religion to create a moral society?

Do we need religion to create a moral society?



well in churches temples and mosques they preach about the dangers of sin and the rewards of keeping to the path of righteousness but not all religious people are good not all good people are religious there have been many humanitarians and philanthropists who are agnostic or atheist from the philosophers the aforementioned David Hume John Stuart Mill to Microsoft's Bill Gates the list is long do we need religion to create a moral Society dr. Stephen low do we need Stephen law I do beg upon do we need religion to create a moral Society that's the question yeah I don't believe so no if you look at some China for about two millennia it was a very moral place their morality was based on Confucianism which is a secular normal religious doctrine and yet you find more or less the same moral codes you find the golden rule do as you would be done by for example Confucius that was his message to nor just Jesus so you find societies that are very moral and I had similar levels of morality to religious societies such as Europe under Christianity so it's just a straightforward counter example to the claim that you can't have a moral society without a religious foundation so does morality predate religion I I don't know you'll have to ask the scientist I think they both clearly have deep roots in our history and to some extent it looks as if there's a genetic component perhaps to both of those tendencies that we have to be moral and to lean towards religion to be patent seekers yes yeah Bishop David do you believe a morality comes from God yeah I do that then I believe in God so clearly that people who want to live a moral life or create a moral framework can choose to do so without God what is needed is a framework that human beings flourish and we know this from our vulnerabilities as tiny children with a framework and that there is some basic understandings of right and wrong what true is not true what what is the right way to treat with each other we've touched on that already as we establish week after week one one person's morality is another person's bigotry and this is a very common problem today that we start to make it up as we go along and since ting to talk about Confucianism and the Chinese government's present interest in understanding what is the framework that a human being who is now entered into the free market who's now trying to aspire to their own house to their own family life what is the moral framework and that's why Christianity is booming in China at the moment for example because people seek not only just their ordinary physical and safety needs but they also need spiritual nourishment and so the roots of much of our morality today are of course and we talked about the law-courts as well this morning rooted in an understanding that we need a framework and that people connect that up not just with logic and and measurable things but also with the things of the Spirit Steven yeah I think what's most important is that we produce good citizens and the kind of citizen that I would want to hold up as a model would be say the kind of citizens who rescue Jews during the Holocaust are now research has been done into the backgrounds of those individuals and it turns out that what really motivated those individuals was not religious belief in fact they didn't appear to be much more religious than those that didn't rescue what marks out the rescuers from the non rescue was is that they were raised to think and question and think about things from other points of view to do the right thing for the right reason yeah Judas certainly to discuss openly and not just uncritically and passively extend whatever they were told now you can raise children like that within a religious setting it's not incompatible with religion but you can also do it outside of religious sitting and it turns out it doesn't matter very much whether you do it inside religion or outside as long as you're doing that that's the most important thing you believe a fear of God is necessary I mean I actually agree with Stephen that you use the genetic maybe there's a genetic component that we believe is Muslims that God has actually created human beings with moral understanding within them so we know things certain things are not right some certain things are not wrong so we do have that moral compass within us that we are born with but human beings and our rationale which is wonderful our intellect is wonderful but it's fallible we are you know swayed by things around us and if we look at the way society today has become so consumer driven and so obsessive about happily wasting the world's resources and you know there was a time when our intellect told us is perfectly okay for a white person to treat a black person as inferior because a black person is inferior and that was our intellectual we can treat it celebrity wasn't it I'm not believe of white people though there's been slavery since time immemorial in the Quranic species not just mentioned it is it is overtly allowed within these states so it's not it's not certainly within the Bible so it and that's another part of the Old Testament that somehow gets revised so that we can ignore that whilst paying attention to Leviticus 20 so the reality is that I'm not suggesting that that we don't owe some debt – especially Abrahamic religions for disseminating very general and ideas of what I think are our basic humanist principles and making people who perhaps not would not otherwise have made them obey them but the fact is now if we're saying do we need it religion now to be a moral Society I think that that would suggest that we are somehow regressive creatures that we are instead of evolving we're going backwards no we do not back society look our youngsters I would need anything more specific do you want me to give you Pacific there yes okay you look at the rate of youngsters what are now got no husband's no father figures the kids were on our streets who are who are having children it says in the Bible that children will start having children can you point to a better time because my because they're leading away from what the Bible will always suggest Michael can you point to a better time than now a golden age when things were better and there was proper adherence to what you believe in and society was resultantly better a lot of my for instance my grandparents age a lot of them you know they've been married you know the best part of 50 60 years they've had one partner that the children are all you know that they've got the love there they've got the dad there they're married it's it's in that con it's in the convenience of the churches its consecrated by God and because of their upbringing of the mother and the father the child's got a better chance of driving well now I'm not saying that single parents are going to be struggling are going to be struggling to bring up their child but what I do say is that if you are married and you love your son and your or your daughter you've got a father in your movie then you've got a better chance of driving John I'm not sure that there's any statistics that suggests that Christians are somehow staying married more than atheists but that's all were suggesting or secular people I don't think that's the case yes of course some of the things you're saying a true but the idea that the only variable between the time when every family was together and there were picket fences and and moderate wealth for everybody and this time now of near Armageddon that's being suggested is just the decline of religion that it's not there are so many other factors of course they are saying the whole and Steven we're touching on which is the morals can be exceeded by the use of reason in fact in us on the use of critical reason is very much encouraged the the difference is that you've got no way to then ground that within society in the individual and that's where religion plays a role because through ritual it connects the individual to broader society when you pray you reconnect with those godly values which are the universal values of morale when you fast you think about poor people all of these rituals charity you think about your connectedness to others all of these rituals are there to connect you to other people and all the research suggests that actually researched by partner recently religious institutions religious organizations are much better at creating civic networks that you know the Oxford Handbook of religion recently showed that religious Americans are much better at being civic activists at voting a giving teachers a moral Society because the most religious society in the Western world is that a particular paragon of morality America one of these things you can't well sociologists generally find it very difficult to measure religiosity of a society you can measure the most religious Society illogical definition it's much easier to measure is self-proclaimed religiosity so how much you attend church how often you give to charity how often you pray and that is very much connected with civic activism and looking after others it's no surprise that one in ten young people in Britain today feel that they have no responsibility for the elderly there's a lot to respond to in there and some of its right and I think it's true religion is actually a very good social ADIZ if it's quite good of binding people together into communities and they wants to deny that however it's also true for example if you run philosophy for children programs in schools those those children also transformed they become far more moral far more interested in interacting with each other and they so you can build communities using religion or you can build village you can bill committees without losing religion the thing about the philosophical approach is that everyone is included you don't have the effect of different religions as they bind people together they produce divided divisions between either your equal in favor although your brother in humanity we don't those are Susan I'm just gonna say like what you're saying but I don't agree with it actually because if you look if we took religion out of it then it would be one man's word over another man's word of what morality is you could state that you think this is moral and then I could say something else what we were talking about earlier on which is you think it's you think all women who or all Muslim women should wear the hijab for example right it's a lady there he doesn't so is she being immoral no I don't but you told me it was a sin not but this is my personal belief and that's her purse I'm not her I don't know how she feels I don't have she feels I don't know her life story I don't know when she was born where she was born I don't even know at full-name that's exactly what you were saying about one person's morality but I also believe that that women who have some disabilities that can't have wear hijab shouldn't wear the hijab and I think there are there are plenty of reasons why that should be I mean this is my personal my personal belief that I don't believe in enforcing it on anybody most religions are actually involved in civic networks in which they're helping to feed the poor look after the elderly they're buttressing where the state is actually failing us and without them we'd be a lot poorer they're also massively involved in politics in which case that they also do things like try and prevent gay people from adopting trying to stop them from having codified relationships except in cetera so it's not they're not just this benign activity the question is the question is slightly flawed in that sorry about just religion bring a more moral society well even if it does do we always want to have a more moral society if you're then condemning people you consider to be immoral yeah to be out of society in other words one person's definition of morality is another person's immorality in other words Said's the Crusades for morality persecuted killed lots of people who would deem to be immoral in a born-again Christian sense homosexuality is immoral in my view and some of the most moral people I've ever met in my life have been homosexuals listen I'm not saying I've got a problem well let's go back there is a poem in Cola you can address this well there's a point that we look at but we look at the history of religion and it is drenched in blood and it's drenched in inhumanity the Middle East is all about ancient religious claims to a strip of land it's all about politics it's all about gas it's about oil it is fair to say that there is a tremendous amount of politics but what's amazing to me is that on the one hand religion is this powerful amazing entity and on the other hand the moment anything bad happens within it that's politics no you have to take some responsibility you asked before what's the difference between a moral structure that has God at the top of it and one that doesn't the difference is when God is your super-ego when God is that person on your shoulder backing you up with everything you say all of a sudden your words have double mod maybe more the impact David's usual there's a much greater an insight into the almighty than perhaps I do much much haven't seen you to a basket but the main thing about this this agenda is that human beings need to live together in harmony they need to see creative flourishing whoever they are whatever their background color creed and at the same time we need to allow for the flourishing of that extraordinary thing in human beings which seeks the other which seeks the numinous the description of love for example is is extremely difficult to measure but raises the spirit Christians find that love in the person of Jesus face to face and also in the ability to sort things out when things go wrong we've mentioned all sorts of negative things today that is one of the basic experiences of human beings and therefore the ability to be forgiven and to know your forgive and to know that you can forgive in order to pick up and move on is at the heart of many people's religious practice those people who are who are you know unarguably wonderful people altruistic people but do it not because there is a creator or they believe there is a crater but do it just because they think it's the right thing to do I say praise the Lord understanding Christian understanding of God is is as we say is big enough to encompass a final work yeah I think that each one of us ultimately has the responsibility for making our own moral decision yes and we need the inner resources but to fall back on to make those kinds and religion Canales and I have no problem with religion whatsoever in terms of providing guidance but you need to reflect on it and ultimately make your own decision you should not treat your religion as a moral compass but you must always follow blindly and I'm thinking more about that word for a couple of years goodbye everybody here can Edgar to such Pangea school in Birmingham have a great Sunday and goodbye you

38 thoughts on “Do we need religion to create a moral society?

  1. I find listening to a Muslim woman or man talking about morality to be a joke. Women are NOT EQUAL in Islam, it says that in the Quran. Why are these white ladies wearing The hijab they look kind of ridiculous.

  2. Very difficult for someone who follows established religion to be be an altruist, easy for them to be good for the sake of their soul, but that's selfishness. Can a Christian be an altruist?, difficult, ( other religions are available) .

    Atheist altruists are the are the the best of all humans. They do it because it is the right thing to do. (We are social animals, social cohesion benefits the future chances for my genes.

  3. Religion is good in binding people for civic duties? Sure. But religion is also good in binding people to commit atrocities. And why do religious leaders wants its members to do civic duties? Maybe a reason for it would be for them to promote their religion and get more members.

  4. Only stupid and ignorant people believe that the bible and religion are a way of getting morals. Common sense should be enough.

  5. Those idiots in the hijab foolishly think they are speaking for Islam but in reality it is the jihadists who we call terrorists, it is the imams and the gangs of muslim males who run their death cult. In the Islamic world women get raped by these men but it isn't considered rape but adultery and it is the rape victim that is punished. I find it hilarious that they choose muslim women to speak for Islam to present a harmless face on this cult but in fact Islam is the most brutal ideology in human history, worse than Nazism.

  6. Religion is not needed for moral society. Educating children about what’s right and wrong makes a moral society

  7. If you study religions you will find that many things are actually very immoral that is advocated by that religion. Take the bible. Is it morally correct to have slaves. Is it morally correct to beat people. No.

  8. Morals exist so that societies can function, religions in the early days were created to spread these beliefs, its just that modern religion is tainted with human greed when power is centralized

  9. Well, let's have a look to the bloody history of Catholic Church in France and then let's go for a show called "How to get rid of religions in order to create a moral society?"…

  10. There's a always seems to be a Narcissistic under-tone to all religion of , "My religion says I'm better than you, My God said so"

  11. You do not need religion to create a moral society.No not at all. If you do something wrong, there will always be someone around to give you a resounding slap. Religion has nothing to do with morality. But all of you have converted religion, and are seeing it thru jaundiced eyes of morality.

  12. If we have moral DNA in us how come slavery lasted from over 1000 yrs and the Muslims played a big rule in it and how do some people belive beheading someone or stoning them to death is a good moral . And if so why do the so called royal families in Saudi Arabia never do the beheading by them self ?

  13. The short answer is no.
    Priests have lied and brainwashed children for centuries with threats of hell and torture for simply questioning the supernatural claims and dogma.

  14. Why are we using a religion-word? Social Ethics is not about holy vs unholiness issues. Let them keep this word for talk about personal shame about personal issues. Their morality means nothing to me.

  15. The religious converts are usually more loopy than the usual Gdbotherers.
    Morals, for we social primates , comes from empathy and cooperation which predates religion

  16. Muslim’s look to a slave owning,,wife beating,warlord,,child molester as a moral compass and I’m amoral ?????

  17. to have a moral authority you need God if not its just laws made to keep the sheep in the yard. baaa baaa atheist fools

  18. Religion is a confusing word for quantum physics.
    A long time ago I read a bible. The words I remember are "we come from the light, we are the light, the kingdom of god is within you AND your belief will heal you"
    Skip ahead 40 years and I find in quantum physics books the same words. But E=mcsquared was written, according to google "Einstein's equation E = mc2 shows that energy and mass are interchangeable. This formed the basis of his general relativity, published in 1915."
    The book "Hands of Light" written by the physicist Barbara Brennan, and published in 1987, has within it many pictures of the eternal light beings that we are. She wrote that we are eternal, holographic, electromagnetic, multidimensional energy and light beings.
    Creation is constant because 'quarks are constantly bursting forth and spinning billions of times a second as 3 points of light, forming what are called protons and neutrons'. These last few words I found in the book "The Quantum World" written by the physicist Kenneth Ford.
    I remember from a science class that "protons spin as positive charges and electrons spin as negative charges".
    But I have read around 200 books, so I can't stop there. People consist of 7 billion billion billion atoms, each one spinning and vibrating and oscillating super fast as eternal energy and light, proven by the testing of the points of light called quarks. People consist of hydrogen, oxygen, carbon and nitrogen atoms to name 4. The hydrogen atom spins super fast as 7 points of light and energy. This is because protons spin as 3 points of light called quarks and neutrons spin as 3 points of light called quarks and 1 point of light called an electron. That is 7.
    The oxygen atom spins super fast as 56 points of eternal light and energy. The carbon atom spins super fast as 42 points of eternal light and energy. The nitrogen atom spins super fast as 49 points of light and energy. Imagine all this light beaming AS us constantly — at the speed of light. There is a picture in the book "Hands of Light" that show us as beaming eternal energy and light beings. Imagine us as the very tight, purposeful focus of so much light that it must coil itself into what we are. These coils actually exist and many people call them chakras. They spin so fast that the instruments on earth do not pick up their speed.

    There is nothing solid or physical or material anywhere. This proves we are literally in the midst of constant creation, which must be conscious light and energy, which could be called God or the electromagnetic unified field or the matrix. But whatever name, we are all saturated with conscious energy and light. We breathe, eat, move and think as this conscious light and energy.
    This means we are all literally the same, exactly, with no doubt, proven by quantum physics. This is our oneness. This information SHOULD stop wars and prisons and racism and the beliefs in germs, viruses and death. Saturated in the perfect electromagnetic, holographic, multidimensional matrix of god's mind, this SHOULD correct all the grief and torture going on everywhere. After all, how can there be death when we are constantly being created?

  19. People who believe in the efficacy of a 2,000 year-old human sacrifice, phrased as a scapegoat ritual, and who thus believe in 'vicarious redemption', even though they are incapable of explaining the supposed 'morality' of said scapegoat ritual (or its inherent 'vicarious redemption') really have no right to talk to ANYONE about morality. Where is the 'morality' in scapegoat rituals? Or human sacrifices? Or 'vicarious redemption?

  20. Asking priest preachers or Rabbi about morality is one of the worst things you can ever do because they are the last people you want to ask about morality because I have a name for them I call them God pimps they got to keep you believing in God cuz that's how they make their money

  21. When muslim mens change their own religion for love they discuss of love lot of things but not change own religion

  22. Why only for women why women change religion become muslim if love mens also change n take womens religion may be cristian .Buddhism jain ,sikh,hindu sanatan Jews why muslim man do love but not change own relision

  23. Morality in abrahamic religion? LoL. Adam sons/daughters doing incest, is that moral? Abraham/Ibrahim/Abram want to sacrifice his only son, is that moral? Jephtah kill/slaughter his virgin daughter for god sake (judges 11:29-40), is that moral? Sulaiman/salomon have 1000 wife/non wife, is that moral? Torturing people in hell for eternity, is that moral? Abrahamic religion is not about morality, is about submission and loyalty to god (fake god). Just believe and bow down, if not you gonna cry forever in hell, lol. If god (fake god) say "kill your son" then kill, if he say "rape your sister" then rape her, there is no space for logical thinking just do it and you will going to heaven because you pass "the test", lol, yes it's just a test for your loyalty to god,lol. They called this shit as "IMAN", I called it "STUPIDITY".

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