Debate on Populism in the Netherlands

Debate on Populism in the Netherlands



short question short answer is here drilled as a proper list of course he is is proud of that magnetra nama explains why he's not well if he is a populist then all politicians are in that sense that they all pretend to represent the people they all pretend that the people are really actually they really represent the people better than their opponents and this is why there are elections now you are right in the sense that that had published also strongly opposed the political elite but on the other hand there is also this notion of populism being just to say what the people want and and if you can say one thing about builds it's not that he just says what people want he in fact has taken fairly in popular positions in in a certain in a certain number of the domains but the way Islamophobia is framed is in such as such that you cannot really criticize or approach problems and I give you one we have in our Institute investigated the radicalism among Dutch Muslims it turns out that twelve percent of the Moroccan people in Holland reject democracy want Sharia and is support violent means to introduce the Sharia this is due this is true for eight percent of the Turkish people now the good news is that most of these people are elderly met mill fairly uneducated who are not willing to do something about it so there's no problem so the conclusion the conclusion of my colleagues on till he was there was not really a problem for democracy but is it true that people who take such result seriously and say there is a problem are Islamophobic no I don't think you can say that it depends on what is it Islamophobia one becomes criticism phobic well first of all I think if you address a group as a group with that you are wrong because you're part of the group or you are wrong because you are a Muslim if you address a problem whether it's with immigration whether it's with housing whether it's worth identity and I think it's interesting that you come up with this example because that was exactly my point that one of the major issues whether it's within a migrant societies or communities or whether it's in non ligon is a question of identity look at why populace so much stress the fact that the Dutch society has to become more Dutch we are and not only in Holland we are really in search of what does it mean to be a citizen what does it mean to be Dutch what does it mean that I have a Dutch Passport and what does the European community has to say about that these are the real issues and they live in an immigrant community as much as in another and I'm sure that this question you you address is a question of a problem of a challenge of identity and that's what we should address yup clink yeah just just I think it's a very important place a question what does it make is the foam Islamophobia I don't think that if someone who's in Parliament like here the others discusses the fears and actually she has the fears of the people that this in itself is wrong I'd rather say it's very good he does reflect the fields which are in society it depends on the answers you gave and the answer that has been given is actually that the group itself is unrepairable and so Islam in itself will will and shall be a problem now and it will be in future and also the fact that he is not only reflecting the fears but he is in my opinion and certainly exploiting fears because he doesn't give a solution it just says they have to go back we have to get less of them no mass migration anymore although we don't have mass migration and in the at this very moment so that's what i mean by exploiting the problem and so I think that someone in who is a politician needs to reflect the fears of the people but the answer you give it depends on the answer you give weather is s llama phobia like for certain of previous session or whether it is what I always very much likened in a German culture if they speak about Hoffman's triggers those who try to be able to hand off to the people solutions and okay now well can you explain why wielders is so popular at this moment well as I try to say in my introductory statements many people are worried about mass immigration in particular of people who are coming from non-western countries and although it is may be true to say that at the moment there is no mass immigration I don't have the figures here it is certainly true that in the in the in the 90s of the last century there was mass immigration I know it's quite well because I was leading their favorite day that those in those days and we had to work with it and it is my conviction that if the people who then had political power in the latter part of the 80s and the beginning of the 90s in the second half of the 90s if those people and I mean lovers and coke from me lo and if they had it had adopted a stricter policy on immigration restricting immigration to people who could who could who could be of benefit to the Dutch economy as mr. clink once then we would not have had all the problems that we have now and we probably would not have a mystery illness as we have now his existence is a it's a reaction to do a situation we have gone out of hand and unhooked oleander to hug thank you Paul face completely this is our fresh individual mr. Bach Stannis is perfectly right because big problem in the Netherlands until now is that we always concentrated on integration and not on migration we should have developed a migration politics and we never had it we always call a concentrated torts of cultural interpretation of the Netherlands and integration be it multiculturalism or be it perfect xenophobia the thing we should ask this who is welcome and who is not and on what grounds and that is a confrontation with ourselves because that makes perfectly clear that the question who is welcome in our country is first and last a political question which cannot be answered in moralistic terms but which can only be asked be answered in political terms and that is quite confronting for a country which always identified itself on the basis of morals or values of being a good country because migration politics by definition is about exclusion and not about inclusion it is about exclusion and we should be harsh but because it's the only answer you can give to that to that question secondly if we look at liberties i would say freedoms in a liberal democracy and a state of law that we r is the Liberty to do stupid things as I a burn and put it so the concept of Liberty cannot be connected by the state with a specific interpretation of what you should do with these liberties so the connection between liberties on one hand and a concept of emancipation on the other hand is utterly wrong because there is a fundamental right not to be emancipated and that is why the left has so much trouble I sensed it in the end the debate of the former panel and in some respects I thought there was a sort of assumption that civilization is left I don't think so I don't think so okay civilization has left well I wanted to and that the discussion about mass immigration I'm I always wonder how you could mr. Baucus and how you could say something like that that it all comes that Vilnius is born out of our out of the mass immigration that took place in the last 50 years what I would ask you don't you think is it's much more a question that we cannot address the issue of how the Dutch culture what it means in a bigger European context for instance that people are afraid of losing something and they think they lose it because foreign people come to this country they don't even exactly know what they lose but they feel something is lost something that was cozy and familiar and that has to cut that has to be lost because obviously so many foreigners come in today and I think you're making the same mistake by not looking deeper the underlying issue why are we so afraid of losing something and what is that and how can we address that issue when I certain think that people have voted for hit villas out of a host of different motives and certainly the what you are describing is present among those motives people are unhappy for various reasons they've lost their job their wife has run away a girl there girl is on the drugs and so on and so forth and that makes them unhappy and disgruntled and therefore they think well what the hell I'll vote for head rulers that that that that is certainly true but the but the end what you mentioned at the loss of cultural values and so on that that used to be the case via video European Union people used to be against European Union because they thought well our culture would disappear this great big a jamboree of different different culture so so that is certainly present but Vilnius has latched on to that unhappiness if you like which in this case goes back to the mass emigration of the 90s that is when when it happened and that is when it went wrong and it went wrong because the government of the day will still impressed with this idea of the hood of handling of the good stranger and therefore was ineffective in controlling the influx in our borders it it it fell down on his duties and illness is a clever politician so then he makes use of that and he becomes very popular for a while for a while let's see what happens the next election so that is behind it but what he says about Islam is normal we have a country and we have freedom of religion it is in fact the basis of the Netherlands goes back to the dr yahoo allah has the basis of the netherlands so statements like we must forbid the Quran or whatever he eats as in that direction is simply nonsense

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