DEBATE: NATIONALISM vs GLOBALISM (Nigel Farage VS Vicente Fox)

DEBATE: NATIONALISM vs GLOBALISM (Nigel Farage VS Vicente Fox)



all right I just want to tell you just a little bit about the steamboat Institute I know some of you have never heard of us we are based in Colorado but in the ten years since our founding the steamboat Institute has earned a nationwide reputation for offering high quality programs which provide ordinary citizens like all of us with direct and personal access to our nation's leaders in journalism media government education the military and even the entertainment industry through innovative programming in providing direct and personal access to leaders on the national and global stage the steamboat Institute inspires ordinary citizens to learn critical thinking skills and to use those skills to gain a better understanding of public policy individual liberty and the proper role of government well on Monday night just a few days ago we kicked off our inaugural campus Liberty tour at the University of Colorado campus in Boulder with an audience of nearly 1,000 people despite the fact that it was the men's NCAA March Madness final so we were very happy to have a good crowd despite that the goal of the campus Liberty tour is to bring reasoned and respectful debates to college campuses while encouraging the development of critical thinking skills now we believe that critical thinking skills can be developed through diligent effort and practice much like learning to play the piano or learning to swim it's something you have to make an effort to work at our second debate with with President Fox and the synth Nigel Farage was held at the University of Colorado's Colorado Springs campus on Tuesday night where we had another 500 people and tomorrow night we will have one final debate at Lafayette College in eastern Pennsylvania but I would like to share with you a quote that was in an article in the CU independent which is a student newspaper at CU a student actually graduate of CU named Conor Schofield said I'm a pretty liberal purse and I would say and I actually found myself agreeing with a lot of what Nigel Farage was saying they would both he went on to say they were both very well-spoken and having sat through both of those debates I agree totally and you are in for a real treat tonight our mission with the campus Liberty tour is to teach students and all who attend how to use critical thinking skills to engage in debate that is robust but always reasoned and respectful in other words we want to teach you how to think not what to think I would like to thank the title sponsor of the campus Liberty to her the mic Latino Family Foundation for sharing our vision for teaching critical thinking skills and encouraging free speech and debate on college campuses all across America without their unwavering vision and support we would not be able to bring you this compelling debate this evening and also very important I would like to thank the ED Snyder Center for enterprise and markets the Snyder foundation and the Snyder family who have been incredibly generous in helping to bring this debate to you this evening and finally I would like like to thank the bipartisan policy center here in Washington DC they've also stepped up as a supporter and they are hosting a breakfast tomorrow morning for our sponsors in our speakers so thank you to the bipartisan policy center and now for the reason you are all here this evening president Trump's recent move to impose tariffs on steel and aluminum imports is just his latest policy decision that has disrupted the traditional political order support for the despit for the decision has split conservatives between those who favor free trade and those who want to protect manufacturing jobs but it's also attracted some liberals who are increasingly skeptical of the merits of trade but the tariff debate is just a microcosm of a broader dispute that's currently dominating public policy and that's nationalism versus globalism so we have invited two of its best representatives Nigel Farage and Vicente Fox to about this issue for our inaugural campus Liberty tour Nigel Farage is co-founder and long serving leader of the UK Independence Party serving from 2001 to 2016 he was the face of the successful campaign to take the UK out of the European Union in the 2016 Brit brexit referendum positioning the referendum as a start of a global populist wave against the political establishment mr. Faraj has been a member of the European Parliament for South East England since 1999 and co-chairs the Europe of freedom and direct democracy group he has been noted for his sometimes controversial speeches in the European Parliament and his strong criticism of the euro currency The Spectator magazine called mr. Feroz the most important British politician of the last decade and the most successful he was shortlisted for Time magazine's 2016 Person of the Year but was beaten by Donald Trump let's give a warm Maryland welcome to mr. Nigel since a fox was born in Mexico City and grew up at Rancho San Cristobal a communal land where the only difference between him and his childhood friends were the opportunities he had he always remembers from his childhood that one of the harms that can be avoided in a country is poverty he studied Business Administration at the Universidad ibero-american a– and later received a top management diploma from Harvard Business School in 1964 mr. Fox joined the coca-cola company in Mexico and started from the bottom driving a delivery truck through his perseverance he became president of coca-cola from Mexico and Latin America he served as president of Mexico from 2000 to 2006 and he was the first candidate from an opposition party to be elected president following 71 years of monopoly mr. Fox is actively involved in encouraging leadership and creating opportunities for less fortunate people through Central Fox an organization he founded he and his wife Marta who is with us this evening are also the parents of four adopted children let's give a warm welcome to President Vicente Fox and now I'd like to introduce our moderator for this evening Mary Kissel is a member of The Wall Street Journal editorial board specializing in foreign policy and the promotion of free societies she contributes to the journals opinion pages hosts foreign Edition which is the journals foreign policy podcast and it's a regular panelist on the journal editorial report which is a weekly political talk show I'm sure many of you have seen on the Fox News Channel Mary holds a master's degree in international affairs from the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies as well as a bachelor's degree in government from Harvard please give a warm welcome to our moderator for this evening Mary Kissel [Applause] thanks very much let me just say one last thing before I turn it over to Mary there will be an opportunity for the audience to ask questions by way of writing your questions on index cards so the index cards have been placed throughout the room and at 6:45 we will have volunteers come around to pick up your questions they will be given to Mary and she will determine which questions she would like to ask our speakers so fill out those index cards if you have a burning question they will be picked up at 6:45 thank you excellent Thank You Jennifer and I and thank you very much welcome be here on campus I also want to thank the University of Maryland and the steamboat Institute a president LOH and miss our Garhwal for their introduction it's very inspiring particularly to hear president LOH and his defense of free speech and before we get started I should admit my bias The Wall Street Journal editorial board is a supporter of free markets and free people and we are not fake news so we're going to kick off the event tonight and by the way I hope you realize the historic figures that are sitting in front of you president Fox Jennifer referenced was the first president to win an election over the PRI which was been called the perfect dictatorship and Nigel Faraj of course the force behind brexit many people call Brussels the perfect dictatorship so we're going to start this evening with short statements five minutes I'm timing you gentlemen from each of our panelists and then we'll talk about the definitions of nationalism versus globalism some of the key issues and some of the key people that are in the news today so president Fox the floor is yours I'm timing you that's yes which are assessed first thanks to this great University state of the art to the students and the faculty here present because you give us the opportunity to come back bath city a Cicero will say how pleasant it is to come back to a university to come back to the sources of knowledge and to come back in a way to the Pantanal youth so thank you very much for that now I will advance two concepts that have driven my life and that certainly are gonna be my sustained ideas through this debate number one I'm a Jesuit educated all along where I learned that the shortcut to happiness is being for others it's doing for others is doing for your community doing for your nation and that's been my life commitment and that's why I was first in corporate world then I moved to politics just because of that one single reason and that's why we created this first Presidential Library outside of United States right there in the heart of Mexico in the state of Guanajuato I would then complete this concept by saying the comparison on San Ignacio de loyola position in relation to living and relation to being a public leader or a leader in government that you gain respect from people through dialogue through democratic moves against what Machiavelli would say that you gain respect through exercising power with softness with the stick in that respect you game comes out of fear and that's why they respect you I think this is what is part of this important debate and second to say that half of what you see here in front of you is American blood my grandfather was born in Cincinnati Ohio he came to Mexico back in 1895 part of the family participated on the Civil War and he came to Mexico without a penny in his pocket as a migrant and he found his American dream there in this small place in the state of one of watoomb were with him for five generations and I wanted to mention that because not only part of this nation I love and respect this nation I love and respect its citizens I love and respect is compassionate actitude all over the world I love and respect this nation because of the leadership throughout the world that's the United States I know I known in the past and I hope I will be seeing in the future now on the death part of ideas my position in relation to globalization and nationalism is depart from having figures fact at hand globalization technology democracy and freedom brought us all over the world to the best-ever peak in development and progress is absolutely incredible what has happened in the last 30 years every single human being has progressed and many have progressed substantially today we live much more years than we used to just 40 50 years ago today knowledge is present together with education in the last corner of the world today middle classes are totally dominant around the world an income has increased substantially even including Africa and those nations that used to be called poor so progress has been almost a limited and yet we'll have to see the century many many more surprises so my question is why should we destroy it disrupt the way we have proven to be successful for a new adventures that song called nationalism that song called conservatism that some nation that we should go back to the original state nation-state and forget about what we have built and we're going to debate about the European Union the most successful bloc of Nations right after World War two they have and enjoy the best and highest standards of living today one minute warning mr. president more or less change those incredible incomes way above even this nation everybody has access to full Medicare and full health attendants everybody goes to school the University everybody enjoys income that is really outstanding so that's one successful bloc of Nations end up by saying that they got together and they decided to get to build that region so powerful and so successful in the world nobody obliged them they decided to go freely to confirm that successful bloc of Nations I know I did some fighting but walk just in this area so the camera will get you so this is the safe zone just here safe space there we are well actually talking of that good evening Mary that this debate is a victory before it even begins because the fact is we're having a proper full honest open debate and boy there are going to be differences president thinks the European Union is a great success I think it's an anti-democratic monster that is crushing democracy ruining nation-state and taking away Liberty we have fundamentally different points of view on those big issues but you know something we'll be able to debate those issues in a relatively civilized manner badly wrong in universities in this country and mine is this development of safe space these narrow zones that some of us are confined to the idea that because somebody else has a different point of view they are basically intrinsically evil is not what parliamentary democracy is all about it is not what our great nations fought two world wars and sacrificed so much for liberty and democracy is an environment in which we express our health our heartfelt opinions but we equally respect the other side to have their views – and we do our best through logic and through reason to make them see good common sense and of course all of this got worse after 2016 the twin shocks of 2016 first of course there was the brexit vote treated by the entire global order as if this was some terrible catastrophe and if that wasn't bad enough if that didn't have people choking on their cornflakes November 2016 was there not when Donald J Trump did the impossible and became the 45th President of the United States and to read and to hear so much that has been said in our mainstream media since those times you know you would think that something dreadful had happened to both of our countries and of course that revolution of 2016 and it's something students in this university will be reading about for centuries to come because something happened in 2016 and it was the rebirth of the concept of the nation-state you know what had happened for decades is people had tried to build new false artificial supra national structures and the European Union in a sense was the prototype for a new form of government the globalists wish to impose on all of us indeed had the blessed Hillary won that election back in 2016 I reckon you now would be very much closer to that European Union and very much further away from the idea that in a democratic system you can vote for people that make your laws but you could equally sack people that make your laws like it or don't like it men and women across this world want by a massive majority to live in our in an identifiable unit that is a nation and they want their national flags they want their national anthems they want their national soccer teams to go and win the World Cup that is what people want it is the natural normal human condition it is the nation-state to which we owe and pledge our allegiance it is the nation state to whom we albeit slightly reluctantly pay our taxes it is the nation state to whom if things really go badly wrong we're prepared to stand up and defend and fight for don't be frightened by brexit don't be frightened by Trump just recognize that the world changed in 2016 and in future there will be government's putting the interests of their own countries first but equally wanting to work with friends and neighbors across the globe and yes that does mean we want to control our borders it does mean we want to be selective about who comes and lives and works and settles in our country and in a world with a new terrorist scourge how can you blame voters for wanting governments to do that on their behalf so please tonight can we debate these issues of open borders without people simply shouting racist which is a substitute for having proper intellectual debate the world has changed globalism got a real kick between-the-legs in 2016 and i intend to do my best over the course of the next half an hour or so to finish the idea off forever start this by asking for a show of hands in the audience is the nation-state obsolete if you think so if you think the answer is yes or C raise your hand okay for the television audience it was a definite minority in the audience that thinks the nation-state is obsolete I think you have your work cut out for you mister Faraj so let's start out with the principle that mr. Faraj espoused that you can either be global or you can be a nation-state is that true president Fox absolutely not and remember when you are I am for Here I am for nation state of course Mexico's a nation state Brazil Argentina Germany Britain United States no conflict with that but we the world have discovered that joining more than one being two means being fine and by joining five you attain what chain world so working together teamwork as you doing corporations that are successful you progress and you develop much faster and much higher so no question about nation state as I don't think that it should be questioned the great associations and partnership that we have built together one of them is this nation this nation started with thirteen states and today has well over thirty that Confederated that got together to work for one nation for one dream that remember founding fathers if we believe him pretty soon we might have a collective here a California action like we have today Barcelona and Catalonia exit we want to divide we all have a flag we all our patrons we all believe in our own dream and that's the way we work but that doesn't have anything to do with dividing or forgetting about uniting by groups NAFTA left has been extremely successful start with the United States United States was lacking competitiveness and was losing markets around the world and so the answer was let's bring back those corporations to manufacture here so General Motors Chrysler Ford Motor Company we're manufacturing here in United States and they went broke and you had to pay to rescue them out of bankruptcy how did they came back live to the marketplace by becoming NAFTA corporations that's the only way they can compete with the mercedes-benz they compete with the Nissan's with Toyota's with the Mazdas with the mercedes-benz and with all the rest and they're back to life because they found that they can be very competitive and productive by working in Canada working in Mexico and working in United States presently Fox this is an excellent point let's go to mr. Faraj we're going to keep this debate going very quickly so we can ask as many questions as possible so this is an excellent point mr. frosh NAFTA made us we can talk about NAFTA we can talk about the World Trade Organization we can talk about the United Nations we can talk about NATO country we can take about all these things which are examples of nation-states cooperating together on the world stage whilst all of those organizations could do with with reform I have no problem with any of them or the concept of countries working together however that isn't good enough for the globalists the real globalists want something much more exciting and far better than that and they did it in the European Union and you cannot be an independent democratic nation state and a member of an organization like the European Union why because they make the laws that you have to obey their courts a supreme to yours and they decide who is fit and proper to come and live in your country not your own people and there is nothing any government any group of citizens in the European Union can do to change European law because all of that is in the hands of the unelected bureaucrats actually this debate of whether we want a globalist future or a nationalist or nation astir is really a battle of bureaucracy versus democracy because the globalists treat democracy with contempt just look at just look at how they speak about those of us that voted brexit or those of us that voted Trump and then we're all ignorant in the end the towels Nordic you did to these people well I wasn't allowed to I would I thought it was a change that was needed well this is interesting because we have a little bit of a nuanced argument here that not all of these associations these global associations are equal so President Fox I want to ask you about the World Trade Organization China was taken in 2001 and yet it breaks many rules no one expected that such a large part of the WTO would also be a rule breaker how do you deal with a problem like that we've got a mic problem sir do we have a mic can you hear him in the back sir the the audio can we hear him in the back yes no otherwise we'll just have to start talking yes he can hear him no he cannot we're gonna bring him we're gonna bring the boom mic down continue sir I think we had gone today you said the Trump and I don't always agree that was the point you were making I think WTO I'm vacillated I'm all ears this is the main point he says he argued a trading is good for everybody that we should do it keeping our nature of being a nation-state but yet we can trade like this nation has been trading since the beginning of Independence and just remember when Washington became president first economic decision he took let's send Jefferson and our best bright minds to Europe to sell our products in this nation started developing its economy by trading so trading is a key issue a nun glad that he believes on trading but Trump does not he thinks trading is I win and you lose and if I'm not winning to help with NAFTA to help with China to help with everybody else I wanna recall to you not long ago global us corporations came out to the different economies in the world and they forced us to open so we have to drink coca-cola instead of drinking our great drinks that we have native drinks in Mexico we had to eat hamburgers and hot dogs on a stair of tacos and tortas so we open our economies to United States corporations and they came in and conquered markets everywhere now that they are not being able to compete because of many different reasons now you say let's build the wall because Mexico's taking away our jobs you have lost the job because in manufacturing you lost competitiveness you cannot compete and are you saying force Mexico to increase salaries welcome I hope we do it as much as possible but economy doesn't work by executive orders and finally this guy invents a story the Mexicans are coming now they have barrels of tequila they want invade United States give me money for the wall Jesus Christ fortunately today the President of Mexico Enrique Pena Nieto Trump we're gonna start negotiating with you if you don't respect us if you don't respect our sovereignty we will not deal with you that's the same thing that China saying of Russia saying that Europe saying if you want to only win yourselves in trading when I will accept that you impose tariffs and you start breaking down what we have built WTO yes it's been striving to be a great institution to coordinate to let nations have harmony on the training to avoid abuses from any one single nation and yes that's what would happen if this nation doesn't man no more not good for you enjoy we have 48 trade agreements with 48 economies around the world and we already started trading with Argentina Brazil buying our corn we by pouring billion US dollars of corn to this nation to 3 million farmers where are they going to sell their corn now we were together in Argentina Brazil and everybody is reacting to something that is wrong to a guy that Bossin understand which is the economy which is trading and which is harmony among nations I'm gonna come back on that if I can [Applause] say Trump is against trade is a complete total distortion of the truth of course Trump is for trade but he wants trade to be fair and reasonable trade isn't trade by its definition fair what do you get with each other well I spent I spent 20 years in the metals business before getting involved in politics I had a proper job before politics is pretty rare these days so I know a little bit about the metals industry and what the Chinese did is they massively increased production of steel at a time when there was no domestic mark the demand and their international demand they crashed the price of steel they put out a business in my country major steel works they did it not to make money they did it as a big strategic global play that was not fair trade and Trump puts tariffs on steel on Chinese steel and everyone screams isn't it dreadful particularly the European Union who themselves put tariffs on Chinese steel last year but they're the good guys because they're the globalists and Trump's the bad guy because he's the nationalist there is gross hypocrisy here to paint Trump out as wanting to shut America off from the rest of the world economically as nonsense and whether you like the fault of the wall down on the Mexican border or not this big beautiful wall that apparently is going to be built it's just a symbol president Fox of wanting to control borders and I can tell you something clear majorities of the populations now in every single country in the West want to have border controls and whatting border controls doesn't mean you're anti-migrant doesn't mean you're an T foreigner it just means you want people to come in who will speak your language assimilate in your society respect your values be an economic benefit to the economy and obey the law what on earth is wrong with that [Applause] without walls don't work Chinese wall failed in avoiding the Manchus and the others and Mongols that wanted to invade them they build that wonderful high beautiful world and a huge cost and it didn't work this beautiful fence that is going to be brought here if Congress approves and if you are willing to pay for that wall 35 billion US dollars we are not paying for that would you have any border controls at all what are you suggesting mr. Faraj moderators privilege getting excited self thank you very much I would just remind both gentlemen this is a live broadcast please let's watch our language personal Fox finish my comment no no finish my comment the way to have water controls is different it's lad with a stick and it's not with the army and it's not with walls it's using your wisdom is using your intelligence like President Bush and myself did like Mexican Congress and two great senators and congressmen Kennedy and McCain who presented a bill to Congress that bill has been sitting there since 12 years ago the answer to migration control because we want order in our borders of course we Mexicans want order in our borders same as any other nation but the way to go is not that now the big problem may be I've reserved for next time that you grant me is migration migration there's nation built by migrants Mexico and Latin America built my immigrant there's no many more natives left around and against that building nations by migrants today is the worst that can happen to the world we say those are evil people those are not welcome nowhere the world's compassion and who's going to own this world and who thinks that you can build a wall so high but the hungry the guys that are desperate running away from violence and from war like Syrians are doing now they're going to jump any wall that you could build so it's not the way to go that's what I compared Lola with Machiavelli I want to explore president Fox's argument about thank you about competitiveness and I'd like you to address a specific question about Britain Britain has very high taxes Britain has regulations that are domestic not from the European Union that depends how you judge it but but question is President Fox has made a compelling argument that free trade competitiveness are the key to wealth prosperity lifting the poor making them rich did Britton really have to leave the European Union to make itself competitive but it's really interesting that the other thing that globalist want is they want absolute conformity so the European single market says that everything in all those member states must be the same they want the same rules regulations on finance the same environmental rules ultimately the same taxation this is not competitive it's actually if you think about it fundamentally anti-competitive and what is happening here is big global politics has been as successful as it has until 2016 aided and abetted by the giant multinational companies and wanted to have the big Wall Street banks we are not living in an age of free-market capitalism and competitiveness we're living in an age of global corporatism and isn't it funny that the blessèd Hillary said to her big donors on Wall Street that if she won the election she wanted America to join a hemispheric common market namely America to join in with the European single market no this is not competitive it is anti-competitive it may benefit the rich corporations who want to run the rules of their own industry who want free movement of labour to get us cheaper possible people this does not benefit ordinary middle people in America Britain or anywhere in the West so could Britain have made itself more competitive that we're not allowed to say 70% of our laws were not made by us 70% of our laws were made by the European Union yes we had a say in that but we could be out voted and indeed in the run-up to the referendum on the previous 50 occasions the British government had tried to change legislation we'd lost on all 50 occasions so not only economically is brexit a liberation but you know some things matter more than money and actually you can't put a price on freedom liberty democracy and being able to run your own country to be proud about that and be the master of your own destiny brexit and i'm delighted because normally you see whatever America does American music American food American fashion we nearly always follow everything you do a couple of years later but in 2016 perhaps for the first time since the American Revolution you follow something we did we had brexit and then you had Trump we were a Trail Blazers okay we're almost at seven o'clock but not not quite yet thank you for all of these questions many of them are terrific and we will try to get to as many of them as possible in fact since we do have so many student questions let me start actually president Fox this one is specific to you does the Mexican government approved people from Central America to cross the southern Mexican border of course we have our own regulations for migrating and Tulu to your knowledge Mexico sends back many many more Center Americans that come into Mexico and they're shooting to get to United States it's about half a million people every year and I don't that half a million Mexico returns back 400,000 and the rest managed to come along and get here but let me tell you that the problem of migration and the party of borders should be discussed on economic terms because what happens is for instance at the beginning of NAFTA or the Mexican side you would make $1 and you learn how to swim across the river or you learn to jump walls then you will be making $10 then poled who of you and used to that would not go for chain instead of one it's an economic problem that we have there why you don't have a problem between Canada and United States because it's a one to one and that's what Europe bring up the remaining the the guys that were lagging behind bringing up to the income of britain germany and the gap has narrowed consistently now that was the situation then today 25 years after of NAFTA the ratio is 5 to 1 this explains why there are so many less people coming from Mexico to United States than the one going back plus the fact that NAFTA has accomplished its goal let's operate Mexico to make him a solid partner let's make our of Mexico a consumer market of a hundred and twenty million people and that is being accomplished now Mexico is there we're full employment right now yes we have just in my region with 10 million Mexicans live there one of Watteau carretera was canada we have eleven eleven huge state-of-the-art manufacturing plant and guess what yes three american companies are there but the other eight come from all over the world they come from Japan from Europe from Korea from elsewhere why because we became competitive we'll learn our lesson we were told you have to go to school you have to be competitive to survive in the jungle of economic development and we did it and the world didn't but now that the rest of the world and Mexico became competitive now here comes one guys no no we cannot continue like this we have to stop this we're losing you're having a the surplus that we're not having it and then you say Mexico took away the jobs that's a lie that's an absolute lie those jobs were lost to technology those jobs were lost to innovation and creativity those jobs were lost because the workers on the our mobile manufacturing line didn't have the vision to go to a community college and learn about learn about all the things that they could in comparative manufacturing will not be here in this nation to the future it will not even be in Mexico manufacture is a past wave now's knowledge economy now's technology and pretty soon there's no more jobs no more jobs in five or ten years how are we going to do it all together I hope the sketch here they will come with bright ideas as long as from let them let you think by yourself in other word he imposes so you have to think freely to innovate and to create what do we do when there's not going to be enough jobs for nobody ok over I might Thank You mr. president I might add there was net zero immigration to Mexico when the US economy went into decline just to underline one point of fact let's pick up this competitiveness argument with another question from the audience and it concerns British politics Theresa May enjoy myself until then based on her failure in the snap elections last summer how much confidence do you have in Theresa May to lead Britain in brexit negotiations in all-out a second and to make Britain competitive well I mean it's obviously very important when you're abroad that you don't talk down your own national leader but but she's hopeless here's the problem all right here's the problem Theresa May is a perfectly nice woman but she is a classic career politician politics has been her life there's been nothing commercially outside of it she doesn't the real world she's not you know been in the army or worked in a charity or or you know run a business lately goodness knows nothing like that she's a career politician she did not vote for brexit all right she voted remain and brexit is the biggest political change in our country for a very very long time for good or bad it is it's an instruction that says to the government we want you to turn around the ship of state by 180 degrees and you can't do that unless you actually believe in what you're doing she doesn't believe in what she's doing she still when she's asked the question how would you vote if there was a referendum today she can't say she'd vote leave because she doesn't mean it so we are heading towards the big moment and the big moment is March the 29th next year that is when we're due at 11:00 p.m. to leave the Treaty of Rome and even though after that she's going to have us wrapped up in a whole load of anticompetitive you know linkages with European law and the European economy despite all of it I think we will get over the line on March the 29th next year under her leadership it will not be a victorious charge we'll limp over the line on crutches but despite the resume we're leaving the European Union on March 29th next year and we will become once again a normal country like you guys in America with elect our own people we'll make our own laws and it can't come soon enough and after that she can sort of slide off and retire specifically to the students would you like to live within a wall within four walls is that what you want like Einstein and thinking like all the creators or the googles of the Microsoft we need to enjoy absolute freedom there is hundreds of thousands not to save millions of us Americans that work outside that work abroad and we welcome them because it's talent because we like to share with other people that's natural it's happening all over the world this exchanged this is why I strongly believe in globalization I strongly believe in corporate world of America that has brought so much development and so much wealth to the rest of the world and this is why I believe in in Wallace 3 I believe in Washington is not the swamp I'm here three days in Washington and I see no swamp except on the White House no one seconds president Fox just to follow on another question from a student do you think a nationalist wave could occur in Mexico as it has in the United States and in the United Kingdom and anti-globalization reaction no the situation in Mexico and Latin America is totally different our defenses what we don't have want to have is what we had on the 20th century demagogue populist leaders messianic leaders like Abita Peron and the Kitchener's but they come with answers that they can fix everything that they can get the jobs back to you that they can move the economy to grow five ten percent more than what is growing all those promises is what made Latin America to lag way way behind because we sat down and we believed the dictator he told us you don't have a job I'm gonna get it for you he told us you don't have health and your family Dawson I'll do it for your build hospitals promises and promises that never were complied with and we believed them and we were sitting there what a different spirit you see in this nation I go as far as I want as go as far as I prepare myself in school as I become comparable as I use my mind as I am brilliant so it's on me I was visiting President Kennedy's radio today at Arlington and what a message what a message don't ask your nation or your president what he's going to give to you ask yourselves what are you gonna do for your nation in the world this is this thinking of this nation and this new narrative which by the way we must be very careful because they never tell us the full truth I'd like to ask senior Trump to tell me four years after he took over what's his dream what he wants he wants an America with a wall he was an America that everybody is controlled and everybody's supervised to do what he thinks is the right thing he wants everybody to be a Christian he wants everybody to be on his philosophy not even democrats or republican is that the dream nation the since they devolved I asked him the question tell us where you taking us and I asked him to tell us where he's taking Britain so you do or do not think Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador a populist like mister Faraj will he win the election let's try to make some news no that's exactly the evil the the the the worst part of Latin America is exactly like Lopez Obrador he already has solved the problem of the hundred and twenty million people is he going to win everybody's gonna be reached everybody's gonna have a job everybody's going to go well he's not gonna win because I'm working for him not to win mr. frost yeah I mean there's a fundamental disconnect going on here isn't it's all very well and good the president Fox the taught speaking idealized tones about free movement of people and no walls and no borders and we'd all travel around the world and we must be compassionate to anybody that's coming from a poor country that wants to come and live in our country it sounds absolutely lovely but that's kind of what mrs. Merkel said isn't it mrs. Merkel said as many of you that want to come we can cope in Germany and when you saw the lines of people coming there weren't many women were there there weren't many children there weren't many elderly 75% of them were men under the age of 30 nearly all of them came from countries where they would not even qualify for refugee status and what have they brought in the Europe yes of course plenty of them a good decent hard-working people but sadly Isis and others have used that opportunity to literally bring onto the shores of Europe and I say to you president Fox whatever your idealized view of the world actually the growth of radical Islamic extremism means that what voters across the West want is for their governments to protect them and that is what democracy is all about I think it's still I think too much of our mainstream media and our traditional political class do not understand there is this desire this will to protect our borders to make our future safer and I think the people are right and the politicians are wrong [Applause] isn't that interesting you know the idea that we should stop terrorists coming into our country the idea and by the way you know I was the first person in Britain to recommend that we did give some Syrians refugee status people who genuinely qualified as refugees but I'm afraid you know I'm afraid we've lost this debate civil debate but but but the fact is you know we finished up no wonder brexit happened mister they want a trump happen because you've got a gulf here between what the politicians the traditional politicians want and what the people want mister frosh I want to get to as many student questions as possible and thank you for these these are terrific a follow-up on that if your vision is so great why have another European nations voted to leave the Union oh look at Italy the other week 60 percent of Italians under 30 voted for the five star movement of the Northern League look at Viktor Orban who is about to storm to victory this weekend in Hungary look at apart from macro getting elected in every country in Europe there is now and they call it a populist wave because we're real we're horrible people you know we believe in our countries and democracy the European Union's days are numbered super nationalism nationalisms days are numbered people want nation-state control and that is right it is healthy and it's the future thank you president Fox say well save the clapping to the end because I want to get to as many student questions as possible another student question on mr. ferocious theme how do we deal with the issue of asylum seekers mr. frosh brought up a good point some some of them are to us asylum seekers like Germany well number one I very today I'm totally and absolutely for order and the borders security in safety in the borders and I used two examples how you can deal with that one is NAFTA NAFTA became an economic issue and what we presented I mean President Bush senator Kennedy Senator McCain to Congress had evolved let's say this nation growing at two and a half percent a year needs 500 additional labor to import 500,000 labor a year when you're growing at two and a half percent that's a fact now how do you regulate that and we did in that initiative that I think Congress when the economy is growing you open the Bob you bring as many as you need like a destination did with a bracero program right after World War this nation took all the women and put them in factories putting them to work here so the men could be at war but was not enough and so they invited two million Mexicans to come and work here as well as eros and once the war was over they kick him on the essence and the Mack no French benefits no gratification or nothing so when you need you import now that import bad works today now China China's developed territory the part that is highly developed with 300 million families middle-class today that they have built in 25 years well about to bring people from the interior only if it's needed on the develop areas it is not needed they don't let him come in they have had to have a passport to come in so you can regulate with with wisdom and with good sense not Asylum Jesus Christ I mean I know there are others but I'm happy when I hear a human being I cannot see one of those Syrian boys dying on the Mediterranean Sea now that doesn't mean like he says and he's right that we can absorb everybody it's growing the amount of people that is moving looking for a better life and we most regulate but let's work it together that's working with sense the best answer is the one I exercise in my Copen let's go to the roots of the problem let's go there and solve the problem in their home in their country and bring up development and that's what NAFTA did for Mexico that's why we're not getting that many immigrants coming we need to do that in Central America and I created plan Puebla Panama to develop center America so that we can have the jobs there so that we can develop that part if we don't get the migration I know it's difficult but it's worth to use a stick and to let people die on the Mediterra and the seed or die of hunger something must be done so president Fox says that we have to deal thank you we have to deal with the problem at its source mr. Faraj of course the obvious source of the problem today at least in the Middle East is Syria and again another very pertinent question from the audience in George Washington's farewell address he warned against quote entangling alliances does a globalist viewpoint go against this view what would the globalist or a nation which we'd listen to Washington and hadn't joined the European Union because that was a foreign entanglement huge about our you need alliances deal with that she likes look look I talked earlier about NATO didn't I I talked about the World Trade Organization I talked about all these structures we have where we as nation-states can cooperate with our friends and neighbors and work together to deal with joint problems to make those decisions collectively that is different to what has happened with the European Union and what the Blessed Hillary and others wanted to do with globalism they wanted us to give away the ability to make those decisions to other people we can't vote for and can't remove and by the way when we're talking about poverty about dealing with the problems that source perhaps the one thing that President Fox and I will agree on is the European Union has been a disaster for black Africa a real disaster they put huge tariffs on agricultural goods on flowers they pillage their fishing waters and actually what we ought to be doing in terms of thinking about the developing world rather than a swaging our conscience is by giving foreign aid very little of which ever finishes up in the right place if we really want to help the poor countries of the world there the tariffs that need to be cuts we need to give those countries the opportunity to trade their way out of poverty and I would like to see an independent Britain outside the European Union actually becoming really leading the world in doing this to genuinely help poor countries foreign aid isn't working but trade and technology just might follow up with another excellent question for mr. Faraj is no deal better than a bad deal alright if I walk up to any one of you in the street and I say okay I've got a really bad deal viewed you want it how many people are going to say yes when you when you had to resume ever had a proper job and worked in the real world have you been a European parliamentary member I spent 20 years in I spent 20 years in business most of it working for American companies but the last nine years running my own business I've employed people I've paid my taxes I've got a damn sight more experience that virtually everybody that talks about this Europe in issue all right I feel quite strongly about that the point is when you go into a negotiation the other side needs to know that if you don't get what you want you're walking out of there they're losing their customer that is how negotiations work they work frankly through fear fear that the other side is going to walk out of the door and what teresa has effectively done is to say well however Beasley you are to us whoever nasty you are to us however appalling the deal is we will of course being good Brits simply accepts it of course no deal is better than a bad deal I'm sick to death of us being talked down to by French bureaucrats we can't vote for and can't remove and unless we get an outbreak of common sense from the European Union in pretty damn quick time we should just simply walk up it is misleading I mean when you exchange something you can go back to the times of the hunter-gatherers each one puts the price the correct price I do this pretty well I'm very competitive I want to sell it at $3 you decide whether you take it or not so now nobody forces you straigth greatest advantage is that one that is convenien to both sides and the same thing I say in the case of European Union he speaks about the Belgium Brussels who created Brussels that now he is calling a monster Britain England Germany France Portugal Spain all of them all of them they created that body of administrating the trading and the building among all the nations and they decided willingly willingly to put that cohesive fund where every economy the successful ones provide two percent of the gross profit to that huge that mammoth fund that they decided together that would be addressed to investing in education in Portugal investing in Italy investing in in Greece and elsewhere why for to operate them to bring the level of the rest to try to be the thing when you see the distribution of income in Europe it's like this when you see distribution of income in United States's from there or higher to here and that's the same distribution among nations they are very compact there is not one wealthy extremely wealthy in the other poor it they try to use compassion use solidarity they try to go through gether now a problem presented migration I know it is a surprises more and more the flows of migration expanding because there is more death certification and so farmers cannot produce enough together fool its wars all over regional words that go against civilians and they have to run away from the war and Elson else how we can solve I don't have the solution but I would take a different approach than building a wall because that that self in this selfishness and unity enough capacity to compete by doing everything yourself I just cannot imagine Ford Motor Company GM and Chrysler force to manufacture in the United States you're not gonna sell one car outside of United States and yes you are going to tax all cars coming from abroad what happens you're going to be paying for your car 30% more 40% more 50% more because the imported car has a tax and the local car has a huge cost is not competitive so it's simple reasoning to trade and to win and win we just end up saying I mean you don't go to trade you don't go to a great wealth just to win and you don't lose you abandon you this sport is not for me it's not the case we win together by working together I ask mister thank you I asked mr. frosh two questions I'll ask you then the second question follow-up on that again from the audience how was your experience with the PRI affected your views can you speak on the trade reform transition from the pre monopolies to your upon party this is a question that revolves around that perfect dictatorship that lasted for 71 years and the pond taking a different approach research behind reasons behind free became corrupt became a lousy manager for the country because it was a monopoly and that's what happened with monopolies that's the great virtue of democracy alternation of power so that you get a smart and if you're gonna try to stay there you come with as well ideas or you're not gonna be welcome you're not gonna be there so that's one case that happened in Mexico number two I came back to support the pre but not the pre the men like I'm supporting to the pepper mill which is the candidate of the pre I know he has that burden on his shoulder of pre corruption and he's moving out he's not a priest and moving out so I always go more for the person not for the Adal ideology and I end up by saying you visit China today you busy day no more ideologies they don't fight like dogs and cats here like Republicans and Democrats do everyday there are pragmatic governments they work on technology or next for some trading Aryan regimes they're authoritarian regimes well I began to doubt how smart is democracy because democracy is not delivering and that's why in Britain they are not happy what is going on you're not happy what is going on here in United States we're not happy with that it's going up in Mexico so it's not the maquas itself is the people that run democracy that work in democracy they are not delivering so I see pretty soon something different being born some other way that we're going to conform governments that we're going to take decisions and how we're going to manage our countries and this takes me to Parliament alliant system I think it's much better than presidential systems today because you always end up like this and you don't progress and you don't advance because the only reason of politicians and parties is to destroy the order it's not who brings better ideas but who can destroy faster the order and that's the way we're living today that will not work to the future we need to come up with innovation also on the political and the Democratic arena thank you president Fox mr. Ferrara response I think the globalist cat was just let out of the bag we heard president Fox's contempt for democracy and for what people think I heard in previous debates him saying he didn't even think the brexit result was a fair Democratic result and this is what the global it's one I've no doubt that most of them are terribly well educated and frightfully clever and well-funded by John multinationals and they think they know better than the ordinary peasants as to how we should live our lives 2016 was not just a short-term kick back against that mentality what we said in 2016 despite terrible threats of economic chaos and plagues of black locusts that would descend upon our countries what we said is we've had another being talked down to by the globalists we actually want to live democratically in our own nations will cooperate with our neighbors but honestly president Fox you treat you talk about our referendum and democracy I think in pejorative terms for many of us whether in this room or outside actually the vote is the most powerful thing we possess as free human beings we value it we showed in 2016 just how potent and powerful that can be and I am convinced the 2016 was not as mr. Blair or mr. Soros and the Blessed Hilary would have us believe a short-term outburst of anger actually it marked a fundamental political revolution that'll go on sweeping through the west over the course of the next few years so unfortunately we are out of time and we'd like to have another vote to see if we've changed any minds is the nation-state obsolete if you think yes please raise your hand I think President Fox may have won this one sorry I'm sorry I don't buy that it's the opposite for one it's the opposite now actually look to be truthful to be truthful even though President Fox and I disagreed neither of us want to abolish the nation-state but the true globalists actually do okay thank you very much thank you for attending I'd like to bring you up please thanks very much thank you everybody just a quick reminder mocs news survives solely on your tips and contributions it's easy to make a contribution or a tip or leave a tip at mocs news comm or there are clickable links and a text body of this video it should take the average person most people probably less than two minutes thanks very much for your time and your continued support stay cool Wednesday this war is going to end till that day

32 thoughts on “DEBATE: NATIONALISM vs GLOBALISM (Nigel Farage VS Vicente Fox)

  1. 22:45 EXTREMELY dishonest question. Not only will those who disagree with the statement not raise their hands, but those who are undecided won't raise them either and are now counted as those who disagree.

    1:13:08 And then Farage made a "No true Scotsman"-fallacy. Apparently, Fox isn't a "true" globalist because he doesn't agree with everything that Farage has decided is "true globalism", or even what many other globalists agree with. Even if he doesn't agree with everything, it doesn't make him any less of a globalist!

  2. Fox shows his true colours after 1:10:00 when he starts talking bad about republics and democracies and talking up authoritarian regimes. Wow, incredible. And whats up with the woman asking about abolishing the nation state and saying Fox won, is she confused as to what NO means? Most people kept their hands down meaning Farage killed it but the moderator totally missed that, I think she just screwed up on her question, in her mind YES is Farage and NO is Fox but she phrased the question incorrectly.

  3. "Would you like to live inside 4 walls?" LoL, don't we all? Does Fox not live in a house or apartment? This guy is ridiculous, Fox is a fascist no ifs and buts about it.

  4. Fox constantly challenges Trump’s legitimacy, while simultaneously advocating for undemocratic technocracy and one party rule? That’s a frightening example of doublethink out of the globalist left, but we should expect more of it. I’m surprised, there’s virtually no headlines on the internet exposing Fox. We know what Fox’s vision is, it’s regionalism and appointed government managers. Of course, if that group of technocrats become corrupt, and they will, there will be no getting them out of power without violence. Great idea, Vicente

  5. Dont trust a "man" that does not have children of his own. Dont follow a man that has put his emotion into strangers.

  6. “Is the nation-state obsolete?” Crowd: NO. Moderator: “you have your work cut out for you Mr Farage” wtf

  7. Fox and the rest of the neoliberal globalist supporting world doesn't seem to understand – global friendship, co-operation and trade is fine … but nations have to be the masters of their own destiny and the individual electorates has to have the power to influence the direction of their countries.

    When you hand power to a superstate and trading blocs you are pooling sovereignty, you are ceding the independence of your country. It is simply unacceptable, sovereignty is the right of all nation states.

  8. Vincent says he helped write the policy around illegal immigration with George W Bush. He was the president that brought in the catch and release law. Can you imagine a more ridiculous law that allows people to sneak in with out a care of being caught. POTUS Trump just ended that scam law and now it is detention and deport deport defuckingport.

  9. I want to ask Vicente Fox one question when he cries about us BUILDING a southern border wall, WHY DOES MEXICO HAVE ONE AND WHY DIDNT HE DESTROY IT WHEN HE WAS PRESIDENT? Because he knows they work and he knows he’s full of crap!!! BUILD THAT WALL!!! The majority of Americans voted for it and that’s that, we don’t need your virtue signaling and lies Vicente!!! We will make our own decisions in the USA and if u don’t like it, get over it!!! #BUILDTHATWALL

  10. This was great, wether you disagree or agree with either person this is how the battle of ideas should be not screaming to the roof top buzzwords and being violent, looking at you lefties.

  11. Fox blasphemes God's name and then says Dump wants to make everyone in America Christians like that's a bad thing. Fuck the communist cock sucker.

  12. Mr fox acts as if he knows everything and he clearly has no clue. He said the USA has 30+ states ROFL. How clueless is this man? Keep up the good work Nigel!!! Go Brexit and Go Trump!!!!

  13. She clearly wants fox to win the debate.. Nigel smashed it as always, Mr Fox sounds like an idiot as always!!! #voteDEMout2018#TRUMP2020

  14. FOX is a righteous Cowboy that thinks he is speaking Truth but he is FAR from it. b He is kind of LOST! ANd then . . . he mentions McCain GIVE me a F . . . . . break!!!
    I TOTTALLY AGREE with the Gentelman "TheOne" and Yes we read other "Less Civilized comments" below . . . .

  15. WOAH! From 1:09:20 onward, Fox subtly admits that "globalism" is based on the Chinese communist model! He claims they're not burdened by ideology, even though Xi Jinping just made himself dictator-for-life under the hammer and sickle! WTF!

    Yes, the Chinese model is pragmatic – all dictatorships are pragmatic, that's the strength of ruling unilaterally. But dictatorships are immoral, and they violate our rights. I don't care how much prosperity and efficiency they bring. I would rather pay more for a car than be arbitrarily tortured by a government I can't vote out.

    In all fairness, he does walk his statement back after the moderator calls him out on it, and then calls for a "parliamentary system." Mary Kissel lies at the end and says Fox won, even though the majority of the audience didn't raise their hand. Thanks for disclosing your bias at the beginning, BTW. You passive-aggressive Marxist snakes.

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