Black and White | The New York Times Close Up with Sam Roberts

Black and White | The New York Times Close Up with Sam Roberts


♪ [THEME MUSIC] ♪>>I’M SAM ROBERTS OF THE NEW YORK TIMES. WELCOME TO THE NEW YORK TIMES CLOSE-UP. THIS WEEK, WE HAVE SOME OF THE VISUAL TREASURES THE NEW YORK TIMES HAS IN ITS VAULT. IMAGES NEVER PUBLISHED UNTIL NOW. UNSEEN AND UNPUBLISHED BLACK HISTORY FROM THE NEW YORK TIMES PHOTO ARCHIVES. DARCY EVELEIGH EXPLAINS IN A MOMENT. VIDEO JOURNALIST EMMA COTT LEARNED A LOT MORE THAN EITHER SHE OR FAR RIGHT LEADER ELI MOSLEY EXPECTED. WE GET A GLIMPSE OF THE MAN ACCUSTOMED TO LYING TO HIMSELF AS WELL AS OTHERS. YOU WILL SEE A SEGMENT OF HER DOCUMENTARY FROM NYTIMES.COM. COLLEAGUES DISCUSS THE ISSUES OF THE WEEK ON THE BACK STORY AND I WILL OFFER SOME CONCLUDING THOUGHTS. FIRST, TIMES CONSULTANT PHOTO EDITOR DARCY CO-AUTHORED UNSEEN WITH TIMES REPORTER RACHEL SWARNS AND BUREAU CHIEF DAMIEN CAVE, AND FORMER TIMES SENIOR EDITOR DANA KENNEDY WHO IS NOW THE ADMINISTRATOR FOR THE PULITZER PRIZES. HOW DID THIS PROJECT BEGIN?>>IT STARTED WHEN A GROUP OF SENIOR EDITORS APPROACHED ME AND ASKED IF THERE WAS SOMETHING WE COULD DO TO ATTRACT YOUNG AFRICAN-AMERICAN READERS TO THE PAPER. ONE SUGGESTION WAS TO TAKE A LOOK AND SEE WHAT THE ARCHIVE HAS. ARCHIVE IS ENORMOUS. THE NUMBERS ARE UNKNOWN AT THIS POINT BUT THE ESTIMATE IS SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 8 MILLION AND 10 MILLION PRINTS IN THE ARCHIVE. THIS BOOK WAS DONE FROM THE NEGATIVES COLLECTION. AND THAT COLLECTION IS ESTIMATED TO BE BETWEEN 400 MILLION AND 600 MILLION FRAMES. IT’S INCREDIBLE.>>WHY WOULD THESE PICTURES SO POWERFUL IN THE BOOK NOT PRINTED IN THE NEW YORK TIMES?>>MANY REASONS. JUST THE AMOUNT OF MATERIALS THAT WE HAD. A PHOTOGRAPHER WOULD GO OUT TO AN EVENT AND HAVE A ROLE OF 36 FRAMES. AND THERE WAS SPACE MAYBE FOR ONE PICTURE AND OFTEN TIMES THAT WAS THE REASON. WE DO SEE SOME EVIDENCE OF MAYBE THERE WAS BIAS, POTENTIALLY, IN THE EDITING OF THE DAY. IN THE TIMES PUT A PREMIUM ON WORDS. OFTEN, PICTURES WERE AN AFTERTHOUGHT. THEY WERE USED IF THERE WAS SPACE FOR THE IMAGE.>>WE STILL HAVE A PREMIUM ON WORDS, I WOULD SAY. AND USE PICTURES AND PHOTOGRAPHS LAVISHLY, AND ON THE WEB. WE USE VIDEO AND GRAPHICS BECAUSE THERE’S ALMOST ENDLESS ROOM FOR THEM. THE REVIEW FOR THE BOOK SAID THAT, FOR ALL THE GLORY AND REDEMPTION PROMISED, THE HERO OF THIS EPIC IS THE TIMES. A FOR HAVING TAKEN THE PHOTOGRAPHS IN THE FIRST PLACE AND NOW FOR PUBLISHING.>>WE CAME UP WITH THE IDEA RIGHT AWAY AND EVERYONE WAS EXCITED. THEY GAVE US THE TIME AND THE RESOURCES TO MOVE FORWARD WITH IT AND THAT WAS WONDERFUL.>>THERE’S A PHOTOGRAPH OF A DEMONSTRATION AGAINST THE TIMES.>>THE IMAGE SHOWS A GROUP RATHER ANGRY WITH THE TIMES’ COVERAGE OF THEMSELVES AND ALSO OF AFRICAN-AMERICANS. A LARGE PROTEST STARTED PEACEFULLY, SOON ESCALATED. THERE WERE SEVERAL ARRESTS. PROTESTERS LIT THE TRUCKS ON FIRE. AND IT WAS IN FRONT OF THE BUILDING SO THE STAFF RAN OUT AND TOOK MANY PHOTOGRAPHS. AN ARTICLE RAN WITH NO PHOTOGRAPHS THE NEXT DAY.>>YOU CAN FIND THAT PHOTOGRAPH AND MANY OTHERS, IN THE BOOK. ALSO, SERIES BY DON HOGAN CHARLES, THE FIRST BLACK PHOTOGRAPHER HIRED BY THE TIMES ABOUT LIFE IN HARLEM.>>DON LIVED IN HARLEM AND WENT OUT FOR TWO DAYS ON SATURDAY AND SUNDAY AND SHOT APPROXIMATELY 100 ROLLS OF FILM, 3600 FRAMES. THE MONDAY PAPER HAD ABOUT SIX PHOTOS AT THE TOP OF METRO SECTION AND THE REST GOT LEFT BEHIND. BUT THE PICTURES WHEN I FOUND THE NEGATIVE SACK, I WAS BLOWN AWAY. HE WANTED TO TAKE THE TIME TO DOCUMENT HIS COMMUNITY WHERE HE LIVED IN AVERAGE, EVERYDAY LIFE WHICH IS SOMETHING I HAVE NOT SEEN PRODUCED BEFORE.>>IT’S ALL SUBJECTIVE ABOUT WHAT MAKES A NEWS PHOTOGRAPH, BUT LOOKING BACK AT WHAT GOT IN AND WHAT DID NOT, DID WE MAKE THE RIGHT DECISIONS FOR THE MOST PART?>>SOMETIMES WE DID AND SOMETIMES WE DIDN’T. A GOOD EXAMPLE WOULD BE THE IMAGE OF ARTHUR ASHE. A MATCH IN NEW JERSEY, A HIGH-RANKING MATCH. ARTHUR PLAYED IN NUMBER ONE SEED PLAYER AND HE WON. THE NEXT DAY, TWO PHOTOGRAPHS APPEARED. BOTH OF THE WHITE LOSER. NO PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE BLACK WINNER. THAT IS THE QUESTION WHY? HARD TO THINK THAT BIAS WASN’T IN PLAY. AND THERE WAS SPACE. IT WASN’T AN ISSUE OF THE FILM NOT ARRIVING ON TIME. THE SAME PHOTOGRAPHER, SAME ROLL OF FILM. WE DO QUESTION WHY THERE WERE NO IMAGES OF THE BLACK WINNER.>>YOU WENT THROUGH SO MANY THOUSANDS OF PHOTOGRAPHS. THE ONES THAT ARE IN THE BOOK, IN A WAY, THEY ARE YOUR FAVORITE. ANYTHING THAT CAME WITH A GREAT BACK STORY?>>AN INTERESTING PIECE, THERE WAS THE AFTERMATH OF THE DETROIT RIOTS. SAM SHOT MANY ROLLS OF FILM IN A FEATURE THAT WAS RUNNING IN THE MAGAZINE AND SEVERAL PICTURES WERE PUBLISHED. BUT IN THE SACK OF NEGATIVES, I FOUND OF ROLL OF FILM THAT WAS MARKED DESTROYED. I WENT RIGHT FOR IT. WHY DID THEY WANT TO GET RID OF THIS? SAM HAD RUN THE ROLL OF FILM TO THE CAMERA TWICE AND IT WAS DOUBLE EXPOSED. I FOUND THIS LOVELY PICTURE OF A FAMILY THAT HAD LOST THEIR HOME AND SUPERIMPOSED OVER A JAZZ CLUB IN WHICH SOME OF THE GREAT JAZZ MUSICIANS OF ALL TIME — THELONIOUS MONK, SO ON AND SO FORTH, PLAYED AT THIS CLUB. YOU HAVE A JUXTAPOSITION OF MISTAKE MAKING A SPECTACULARLY BEAUTIFUL PICTURE WITH SO MUCH RICH HISTORY AND THE TIMES NEVER WOULD’VE PUBLISHED A MISTAKE PHOTO LIKE THAT. BUT HERE IT HAPPENS TO BE ONE OF THE MOST BEAUTIFUL PIECES OF ART.>>IT IS ART FOR SURE. AS YOU POINTED OUT IN THE BOOK, WE PUBLISHED AN OBITUARY WHO WAS NOT DEAD.>>ONE OF MY FAVORITE STORIES. I BELIEVE IT WAS 1969 AND NEW YORK TIMES RAN THE OBITUARY. HE TRAGICALLY DIED AT 35 FROM A MASSIVE HEART ATTACK. THAT WAS THE LAST WE HEARD OF — IN THE NEW YORK TIMES — WE FOUND THIS LOVELY PICTURE OF HIM WITH CHILDREN, HE WAS A PUBLISHER OF HIS OWN NEWSPAPER AND REPORTED TO BE THE SECOND AFRICAN-AMERICAN MAN TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, UNCONFIRMED. HE WAS ALSO A LITTLE YOUNG FOR THAT. BUT WE WERE LOOKING FOR MORE INFORMATION ON HIM. WE CAME ACROSS AN ARTICLE IN THE WASHINGTON POST. WAIT A SECOND. HE’S DEAD. SOMEBODY FOOLED THEM. IT TURNS OUT THEY BAMBOOZLED THE NEW YORK TIMES AND FAKED HIS DEATH BECAUSE HE WAS BEING PURSUED BY THE BLACK PANTHERS AND HE WANTED TO GET AWAY.>>FASCINATING STORY. THAT IS AMONG THE PICTURES IN THE BOOK. THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US. UNSEEN UNPUBLISHED BLACK HISTORY FROM THE NEW YORK TIMES PHOTO ARCHIVES. IT HAS JUST BEEN PUBLISHED. COMING UP, TIMES VIDEO JOURNALIST EMMA COTT JOINS US NEXT. ♪ [THEME MUSIC] ♪>>WELCOME BACK. JOINING ME NOW TIMES REPORTER AND VIDEO JOURNALIST EMMA COTT, SHE FACED A DAUNTING CHALLENGE HAVING TO COVER A PERSON WHOSE BELIEFS ARE ABHORRENT. EMMA DID JUST THAT WITH HER DOCUMENTARY LIEUTENANT OF THE ALT-RIGHT. YOU CAN SEE IT IN FULL ON NYTIMES.COM. YOU AND YOUR FILMMAKING PARTNER, SENIOR PRODUCER, AND EXECUTIVE PRODUCER LEARNED FAR MORE THAN YOU EXPECTED WHEN YOU INTERVIEWED ELI MOSLEY. WHO IS ELI MOSLEY?>>HIS REAL NAME IS ELLIOTT KLEIN. A RISING LEADER IN THE SO-CALLED ALT-RIGHT WHICH IS A VERY LOOSELY ORGANIZED WHITE NATIONALIST MOVEMENT. HE IS ONE OF THE MAIN ORGANIZERS OF THE CHARLOTTESVILLE RALLY THAT TURNED DEADLY. AND AFTER THAT, PROMOTED TO BE THE HEAD OF ONE OF THE LARGEST GROUPS IDENTITY EUROPA.>>WHY DOES HE GO BY A DIFFERENT NAME?>>IT’S PRETTY COMMON IN THE ALT-RIGHT. THEY SAY IT’S FOR PROTECTION. YOU CAN’T HAVE THOSE IDEAS IN THE WORLD AND OTHER PEOPLE MIGHT SAY IT IS BECAUSE THEY ARE COWARDS. IT DEPENDS ON WHO YOU TALK TO.>>LET’S TAKE A LOOK AT THE VIDEO FROM NYTIMES.COM. ♪>>I NEVER REALLY GOT ANYTHING WHEN I WAS ELI KLEIN, UNTIL I BECAME ELI MOSLEY. ELI WAS ABLE TO FIND THAT SENSE OF PURPOSE. IT WAS OBNOXIOUS TRYING TO GIVE SPEECH WITH 600 PEOPLE SCREAMING AT YOU. HOWEVER, THE AUDIO CAME IN JUST FINE OVER THE INTERNET. AND MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WILL SEE WHAT WE SAID. I GAVE A SPEECH YESTERDAY AND TWITTER HAS REMOVED MY ACCOUNT COMPLETELY. YOU GO TO TWEET — YOUR ACCOUNT IS CURRENTLY SUSPENDED.>>THE SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS THAT INITIALLY ALLOW THE ALT-RIGHT TO FLOURISH ARE STARTING TO STIFLE IT. TWITTER IS CRACKING DOWN, SPORADICALLY, ON HATE SPEECH. BANNING SOME ACCOUNTS AFFILIATED WITH WHITE NATIONALISM.>>I HAVE BEEN BANNED 20 TIMES. YOU SHUT US DOWN, WE COME RIGHT BACK. YOU SHUT US DOWN, WE COME RIGHT BACK. WE’RE NOT GOING ANYWHERE. EVERY TIME I GET AN ACCOUNT SHUT DOWN I MAKE A NEW ONE THE NEXT DAY.>>HIS ARMY DOCUMENTS ARRIVE. THE STORY THEY TELL IS FAR DIFFERENT FROM THE ONE HE CREATED. TURNS OUT, HE NEVER DEPLOYED. NOT TO IRAQ, NOT ANYWHERE. ELLIOTT KLEIN SPENT SIX YEARS IN THE PENNSYLVANIA NATIONAL GUARD. COMING IN TO TRAIN ONE WEEK AND A MONTH AND FOR SOME WEEKS OVER THE SUMMER. TWO SOLDIERS FROM HIS UNIT ALSO CONFIRMED THAT HE NEVER DEPLOYED. THE ARMY TELLS ME THAT YOU DID NOT DEPLOY.>>THE ARMY TELLS YOU?>>DID YOU GO TO IRAQ?>>I WAS IN KUWAIT.>>YOU TOLD ME YOU WENT TO KUWAIT AND THEN YOU WENT TO IRAQ.>>BASICALLY, IT’S THE SAME — THEY ARE VERY SIMILAR.>>WHAT WERE THE DATES YOU WERE THERE?>>UM — LET ME THINK. UH, TRYING TO FIND OUT. 2012, I BELIEVE.>>THE LAST TROOPS LEFT IRAQ AT THE END OF 2011. FACTS DON’T SEEM TO MATTER TO ELI. BUT MAYBE THAT’S THE KIND OF PERSON WHO BECOMES A LEADER IN THIS MOVEMENT. THE MORE PEOPLE LIKE HIM COME OUT INTO THE OPEN, THE MORE THEY REVEAL THE ALT-RIGHT FOR WHAT IT REALLY IS. IT’S A MOVEMENT WHERE 30 PEOPLE WITH CHEAP TIKI TORCHES CAN SEEM LIKE AN ARMY IN THE ECHO CHAMBER OF SOCIAL MEDIA. THEY ARE WHITE MEN THAT CLAIM TO BE THE REAL VICTIMS AND WHERE A WEEKEND WARRIOR CAN PASS HIMSELF OFF AS A DISILLUSIONED VETERAN OF WAR.>>WHAT WAS HIS REACTION TO YOUR EXPOSING THE FACT THAT HE LIED ABOUT MILITARY SERVICE?>>HE DID NOT LIE ABOUT THE SERVICE, BUT HE LIED ABOUT DEPLOYMENT. HE DENIES IT. HE STILL DIGS AND AND CONTINUES TO LIE, WHICH — HE’S STILL LYING.>>ONE OF THE THINGS YOU POINTED OUT IN THE VIDEO ON NYTIMES.COM AND ON OUR PAGE TWO FEATURE, IT’S THE CHALLENGE AND THE DIFFICULTY IN RECONCILING WHETHER YOU GIVE SOMEONE LIKE THIS PUBLICITY, WHETHER YOU MAKE HIM SOUND MORE SYMPATHETIC THAN HE DESERVES TO. ON THE OTHER HAND, SHOULD WE BE FULFILLING THE OBLIGATION TO SAY WHAT, IN FACT, IS GOING ON? AND WHO PEOPLE LIKE THIS ARE? HOW DO YOU RECONCILE THAT?>>IT IS A DIFFICULT ISSUE AND EACH STORY THAT WE DO ABOUT WHITE SUPREMACIST OR WHITE NATIONALISTS SHOULD BE EVALUATED ON A CASE-BY-CASE BASIS. BUT I THINK THE SIMPLE ANSWER IS SOMETHING THAT JOURNALISTS ALWAYS DO, CHECK THE FACTS. DON’T TAKE ANYTHING ANYONE TELLS YOU AT FACE VALUE AND THAT IS ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT IN REPORTING ON THESE GUYS WHO TWIST THE TRUTH.>>WHEN YOU REPORT OR HAVE A VIDEO OF HATE SPEECH, DOES THAT ENCOURAGE IT OR SPREAD IT EVEN MORE? OR DOES IT DEMONSTRATE WHAT THESE PEOPLE ARE ALL ABOUT?>>IT’S A GOOD QUESTION. WHAT I TRY TO DO IS TO SHOW THAT HE HAS SANITIZED HIS LANGUAGE FOR THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA. HE USES TERMS LIKE WHITE GENOCIDE AND WHITE IDENTITY POLITICS. BUT I FOUND THESE OLD PODCASTS WHERE HE WAS CLEARLY UNABASHEDLY RACIST AND ANTI-SEMITIC. AND JUXTAPOSING THOSE TWO WAYS OF SPEAKING IS A WAY OF EXPOSING THEM AND THEIR DECEPTION.>>HOW SOMEONE GOES AS BEING A SELF DESCRIBED ANONYMOUS TWITTER TROLL TO A LEADER OF THE ALT-RIGHT AND FAR RIGHT MOVEMENT?>>THAT WAS THE REASON I WAS INTERESTED IN HIM. THE ANSWER IS, IT’S NOT LIKE THERE ARE REALLY RANKS IN THE ALT-RIGHT. IT IS A VERY DIFFUSE MOVEMENT AND PEOPLE THAT ARE COMMITTED ARE OK WITH COMING OUT AND RISKING EVERYTHING IN THEIR REGULAR LIFE THEY LEFT BEHIND ARE QUICKLY EMBRACED.>>YOU CAN SEE THE VIDEO IN FULL AT NYTIMES.COM. THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. IT DOES CONTAIN SOME PRETTY VILE LANGUAGE AND VIOLENCE. ♪ [THEME MUSIC] ♪>>WELCOME BACK. AND GIVEN THE WEEK, A MIGHTY EXHALE AND TALK OF TREASON FOR THE PRESIDENT OR IN THE NEED OF DRAMAMINE IF YOU ARE IN THE STOCK MARKET. THE HOUSING AUTHORITY IS AGAIN UNDER FIRE, FOR DEPRIVING ITS TENANTS OF BASIC SERVICES, THE TRIAL HITTING CLOSE TO HOME FOR THE GOVERNOR. JOINING ME TO DISCUSS THESE STORIES AND MORE, CONTRIBUTING WRITER, ELEANOR RANDOLPH, CITY HALL BUREAU REPORTER, WILLIAM NEUMAN AND METRO POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT SHANE GOLDMACHER. SHANE, YOU HAVE BEEN COVERING THE PERCOCO TRIAL, A MAN WHO IS CLOSER TO ANDREW CUOMO THAN MOST PEOPLE, TESTIMONY AGAINST HIM AND ONE WITNESS THE OTHER DAY WAS ASKED IF YOU ARE AN HONEST MAN TO WHICH HE REPLIED, TODAY I AM. WHO DO WE BELIEVE?>>THIS IS NOT JUST A WITNESS, THIS IS THE STAR WITNESS, FORMER LOBBYIST, WHO IS ACCUSED, HE PLED IT GUILTY AND HAD SOME PRETTY DAMNING TESTIMONY THIS WEEK. HE HAS A LONG HISTORY AS A LIAR, A CROOK, SOMEONE WHO DIDN’T PAY HIS BILLS. FOR CROSS EXAMINATION, IT’S HAPPENING WHERE OTHERS ARE BASICALLY ASKING HIM REPEATEDLY TO DESCRIBE THE LIES HE ENGAGED IN WITH THE HOPES OF PROSECUTION. HE’S CONVINCING THEM HE LIED IN THE PAST BUT HE IS NOT LYING NOW UNDER OATH.>>HOW DO YOU DO THAT WHEN YOU HAVE A RECORD OF A LIAR EVEN IF HE MAY BE LYING FOR THE FIRST TIME? HOW DO YOU PERSUADE A JURY OR JUDGE THAT THIS TIME, I’M TELLING THE TRUTH.>>THIS IS THE VERY BEGINNING OF QUESTIONING, ASKING HIM ABOUT HIS LIES. THIS GUY HAS A LONG BAD HISTORY. BUT HE IS TELLING THE TRUTH NOW, WE HAVE EVIDENCE AND DOCUMENTS TO BACK UP HIS CASE. THEY WERE EXCHANGING FOR CASH IN ORDER TO HIRE FOR A JOB.>>THE OTHER THING IS THAT THEY CAN SAY THAT IF HE DOESN’T TELL THE TRUTH THIS TIME, HE HAS THIS AGREEMENT. BUT THAT AGREEMENT WILL GO AWAY AND WILL COMPLETELY DISAPPEAR IF HE DOESN’T TELL THE TRUTH THIS TIME.>>WE SAW THE WHOLE THING COLLAPSED, EXACTLY THE SAME KIND OF THING ALTHOUGH YOUNGER. HE’S BEEN DOING IT FOR LESS TIME.>>WE’VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT ANOMALIES LIKE THAT. HOW DO WE GET TWO PEOPLE ACCUSED AND ADMITTING TO GIVING MONEY ILLEGALLY TO THE MAYORAL CAMPAIGN, AND THE MAYOR BEING IMMUNE IN EFFECT FROM PROSECUTION?>>IT IS FASCINATING. ANOTHER DONOR TO MAYOR DEBLASIO, HE PLED GUILTY TO FEDERAL CHARGES, SPECIFICALLY OF FRAUD. BUT THE CHARGES INVOLVED BRIBERY AND HE PLED GUILTY USING CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS TO BRIBE MAYOR DEBLASIO. BUT THE RECIPIENT OF THE BRIBE WAS NOT CHARGED. THERE ARE ALL SORTS OF POSSIBLE REASONS FOR THAT. ONE MAY BE THAT SINGH MAY HAVE THOUGHT AS A BRIBE BUT THE MAYOR HAD RECEIVED IT THINKING THAT HE SEES ME AS THE BEST CANDIDATE FOR THE JOB. BUT WHAT WE DO KNOW IS THAT THE MAYOR DELIVERED AND WHAT THE FEDERAL OR, THE PROSECUTOR SAID, THE MAYOR DELIVERED BY — HE AND HIS AIDES WERE ARRANGING A NEGOTIATION OVER A DISPUTE HAD OVER HIS CONTRACT WITH THE CITY FOR A RESTAURANT LEASE. IT ULTIMATELY LED TO AN OFFER, A BETTER SETTLEMENT THAT HE HAD GOTTEN PREVIOUSLY.>>A VERY SIMILAR CASE IN LONG ISLAND. IT INVOLVES THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE. THEY ARE STARTING TO SAY, WHY IS IT, THAT PERSON GOT BRIBED AND HE’S IN TROUBLE. BUT DEBLASIO WAS ON THE OTHER END OF IT.>>HE DID NOT TAKE MONEY AND PUT IT IN HIS OWN POCKET. HE TOOK CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS WHICH ARE LEGAL TO GIVE. THE CASE IN LONG ISLAND IS QUITE DIFFERENT IN TERMS OF THE THINGS THAT WERE RECEIVED OUT THERE.>>THE SUPREME COURT CASE THAT CHANGED THE DEFINITION OF PUBLIC CORRUPTION AND MADE IT HARDER FOR PROSECUTORS TO GET TO POLITICIANS BECAUSE NOW THEY HAVE TO PROVE A DEGREE OF CORRUPTION AND THEY DO.>>THEY HAVE TO PROVE A REAL QUID PRO QUO.>>BEFORE, YOU COULD DO HONEST SERVICES, NOT AVAILABLE PROSECUTION ANYMORE.>>IT IS LIKE DEFINING DEVIANCY DOWN, WE NO LONGER EXPECT HONEST SERVICES. IT IS HARDER TO BREAK THAT LAW. A GUBERNATORIAL CAMPAIGN COMING UP, DOES IT MATTER?>>NO. AND YES. I DON’T THINK IT MATTERS MENTALLY TO NEW YORKERS. THE GOVERNOR HAS NO DISCERNIBLE POWER IN NEW YORK. BUT IT’S A FASCINATING POLITICAL QUESTION THAT SPEAKS TO WHAT CUOMO WANTS TO DO THIS YEAR AND BEYOND. IF HE DOES CHOOSE TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT, THE ACTING GOVERNOR WILL BE OUT OF STATE AND IOWA AND NEW HAMPSHIRE. IF HE WINS, HE IN TURN BECOMES THE GOVERNOR. CUOMO TODAY SAID HE WAS GOING TO KEEP CATHY CALHOUN ON THE TICKET BUT THERE HAVE BEEN PERSISTENT CHATTER THAT HE WOULD LIKE TO MOVE IN ANOTHER DIRECTION.>>AND THAT IS AN EASY WAY TO GET HER OUT OF THE PICTURE, FOR SURE. THANKS TO EVERYONE FOR JOINING US. AND FINAL WORDS IN A MOMENT. ♪ [THEME MUSIC] ♪>>IN THE LATE 1950’S, EACH EPISODE OF EARLY VIRTUAL REALITY TV SERIES WOULD END WITH THIS MEMORABLE QUOTA. 8 MILLION STORIES IN THE NAKED CITY. THIS HAS BEEN ONE OF THEM. THERE ARE 7.7 MILLION NEW YORKERS AND TODAY THERE ARE NEARLY ONE MILLION MORE. THE QUESTION IS, HOW MANY OF THEM WILL BE COUNTED IN THE 2020 CENSUS. THIS IS NO ABSTRACT STATISTICAL STUMPER. IT’S NOT ABOUT BRAGGING RIGHTS. BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN FEDERAL MONEY ARE DISTRIBUTED. THE 2020 POPULATION SNAPSHOT WILL ALSO DETERMINE THE CITY’S POLITICAL CLOUT IN CONGRESS AND THE STATE LEGISLATURE FOR THE NEXT DECADE. POPULATION SHIFTS TO THE SOUTH AND WEST HAVE SHRUNK THE STATES CONGRESSIONAL DELEGATION FROM 45 REPRESENTATIVES IN THE EARLY 1950’S TO ONLY 27. THE CITY ACCOUNTS FOR 99% OF THE STATE POPULATION GROWTH, BUT IT IS UNDERREPRESENTED IN THE ALBANY LEGISLATURE. CITY OFFICIALS SAID THE CENSUS MISSED TENS OF THOUSANDS OF NEW YORKERS. THIS TIME, THE OFFICIALS ARE WORRIED ON TWO COUNTS. ONE IS THE PROPOSED QUESTION ASKING WHETHER YOU ARE A CITIZEN. THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT CLAIMS THAT QUESTION IS VITAL FOR ENFORCING THE RIGHTS LEGISLATION AND REGULATIONS. CRITICS THINK OTHERWISE. THAT THE QUESTION WILL PANIC IMMIGRANTS, BOTH LEGAL AND NOT, INTO REFUSING TO RESPOND. THE FOREIGN BORN ALREADY FEEL VULNERABLE TO GOVERNMENT OVERREACH. THE LAST TIME A CITIZENSHIP QUESTION WAS ASKED ON A SURVEY IN 1950, THE CENSUS BUREAU ITSELF FOUND THAT FOREIGNERS WERE UNDERCOUNTED. ABOUT 3.2 MILLION NEW YORKERS ARE FOREIGN-BORN. OF THOSE, MAYBE HALF A MILLION LACK PROPER DOCUMENTS AND FEAR DEPORTATION. MANY BLENDED FAMILIES ARE COMPRISED OF NATURALIZED CITIZENS BUT ALSO INCLUDE RELATIVES WHOSE IMMIGRATION STATUS IS ARGUABLE. ENTIRE HOUSEHOLDS MAY REFUSE TO PARTICIPATE TO PROTECT ONE MEMBER. OFFICIALS ALSO MAINTAINED THAT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS DELIBERATELY SHORTCHANGING THE CENSUS BUREAU BUDGET TO HAMSTRING IT FROM RECRUITING RECALCITRANT RESPONDENTS. THE CITY PLANNING DEPARTMENT HAS BEEN REACHING OUT TO NEW YORKERS FOR MONTHS IN 10 LANGUAGES TO HELP CONFIRM WHAT THE CENSUS BUREAU MAY HAVE MISSED. IT HAS FOUND AS MANY AS 100,000. UNDER THE CONSTITUTION, EVERYONE IS SUPPOSED TO BE COUNTED IN THIS SNAPSHOT, CITIZEN OR NOT. OF COURSE, THAT IS A HERCULEAN TASK. SINCE THE VERY FIRST CENSUS WAS AUTHORIZED HERE IN 1790, NEW YORK WAS THE NATION’S CAPITAL. EVEN GEORGE WASHINGTON AND THOMAS JEFFERSON COMPLAINED OF AN UNDERCOUNT. BUT DELIBERATE SABOTAGE WAS SOMETHING ELSE. MAYOR DEBLASIO HAS JOINED OTHERS IN DENOUNCING THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION’S MEDDLING. AT THE STATE OF THE CITY SPEECH, HE HAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO CREATE A NATIONAL MODEL FOR CIVIC ENGAGEMENT. TO REMIND ALL NEW YORKERS THAT WE CAN COUNT. FOR THE NEW YORK TIMES AND CUNY TV, I’M SAM ROBERTS. ♪ [THEME MUSIC] ♪

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