Black Agenda Report's Margaret Kimberly on racism & nationalism

Black Agenda Report's Margaret Kimberly on racism & nationalism



well now look at the dangerous mix of nationalism and racism with Margaret Kimberly she's an editor and columnist at black agenda report welcome Margaret to CN live hi Marvis joining us from New York is that right yes okay Margit a couple of weeks ago was actually July 14th Trump put out this tweet among all his tweets this one really got a big reaction even led to the House of Representatives passed resolution condemning him for it so you know this one was beyond the threatening genocide against Iran because I him out this one got the kind of response that many of his tweets would get and what it was it was of course he took on the squad which is up for a congresswoman just elected in this Congress who are all quite quite to the left for American politics anyway and Trump attacked them for what he thinks was that they didn't live they didn't come from this country it was widely seen as being a racist remark and I'm gonna read the full quote the full three tweets so it starts this way so interesting to see progressive quote-unquote democratic congresswoman who originally came from countries whose governments are complete and total catastrophe the worst the most corrupt and inept anywhere in the world if they even have a functioning government at all now loudly and viciously telling the people of the United States the greatest and most powerful nation on earth how our government is to be run why don't they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime-infested places from which they can then come back and show us how it is done these places need your help badly you can't leave fast enough I'm sure that Nancy Pelosi very happy to quickly work out a free travel arrangements Margaret these for congresswoman three of them were born in the United States one of them came from the district where represent the district where I grew up in the Bronx only one of them ilan Omar was a refugee from war-torn Somalia so he got that wrong clearly they go back to the patron that's just his usual idiocy but these are dis from talk about going back my question first question is there is a some people have debated whether Trump himself is a racist or whether he was just using racism just Stoke up and maintain his base is this conclusively answered now by this tweet well he is a racist and that is why he's so popular among that cohort he's one of them people often say Trump says whatever is on his mind and what they really mean is that he says what's on their minds what they want to say so he is a true believer in white American nationalism and Yuki knows to millions of people for that reason now there is one thing that I feel compelled to point out that has not been mentioned very much I believe Nancy Pelosi play a role and he's feeling comfortable in attacking these women she in the Maureen Dowd in the New York Times and these for congresswoman Alexandria cosmic Cortes what she did to me I present a meal on Omar had voted against the Democratic compromise with the Republicans about immigration enforcement on the border and there was only four of them but Nancy Pelosi felt compelled to say to Maureen Dowd well you know there's only four of them nearly got four votes and they may have their twitter or whatever but she insulted her own members now she was the leader but they're also her colleagues and it was way out of line for her to say that but that's messy policies rules she does cheap things she raised a lot of money and she beats down progressives that's it that's all but Nancy Pelosi does she opened the floodgates to trump and I feel the need to point that out before talking about the obvious the obvious racism from a man who's president and is supposed to act with more but decorum but I think that's also something that heals millions of people and yes it is clearly racist the fact that none of these women are white one is African one African American one latina and one of the Palestinian heritage so not white means not being the American illa no Mars the only one born outside of the country there are yes we are all Americans but to him and to millions of other people doesn't really matter because they're kind of their left you know for America anyway they're on the left wing and and Nancy Pelosi beat up on them first and I I believe gave him the inspiration to start this this attack so it is obviously raises to go back where you came from because you're not white I mean in this country settler colonial nation that means that the conquering people are in this topsy-turvy perversion become the real citizens of that place that they took over so yes he is a racist yes he does appeal to racist yes he does nice things deliberately in order to strengthen his support and it is disgraceful but I don't think that and I also believe Democrats you know they have criticizing women Ellen Omar especially when she's criticized as real she was called an anti-semite some Democrats assisted in that attack so I don't believe they said you know he doesn't mention Nancy Pelosi in the tweet and says she'd be happy to send him back so and of course his remark that these are crime-infested places is also quite part of what the next question I'm gonna have which is what was overlooked in the reporting on this and obviously the racist remarks deserved all the attention that it got maybe should have even gotten even more but he said he called the United States the greatest the most powerful nation on earth i me didn't get attention Margaret because we hear that rhetoric every single day without objection yes and he's also saying the other place is a crime infested the United States is the greatest country under it so I find that very troubling because it certainly isn't most powerful military country in the world but it is far from the greatest if you consider the social conditions of most Americans right now the economic inequality the continued racism and this leads to this combination racism a national which I think through the product and that is imperialism because the countries the u.s. attack and dominated generally in the developing world or not the white nations who are allied to the u.s. so I wanted to know what you thought about his nationalistic remarks and whether that makes this even a doubly dangerous mindset that Trump and many people powerful people America had yeah well some members of the Senate out of him and said that he referred to the global South is a fretful countries and one didn't know why you know we couldn't get people to come from Norway from Norway we've got three healthcare and three universities gun control the health leave there to come here but at any rate what he meant let's go away when his mother was an immigrant from Scotland and his two of his wives were European but that you know immigrant and his eyes and for him the negative remember that means not white but this idea that America is the greatest country where was so dangerous this idea of exceptionalism and Obama used indulgences to in his own way say Americans are one indispensable nation we're an exceptional exceptional he was always my question that means of America is indispensable that means the rest of the world is dispensable and these notions are pretty sick frankly that this country that means the world in I mean what what do we need the world in people in prison and you know I'm not having national health care it's things like that the biggest army and more people in jail that's a that's pretty much it greatest inequality but this propaganda and Americans are to think of themselves as being propagandized but that's pretty classic propaganda that the u.s. is superior and that means it's entitled and that means the United States can enact sanctions against Venezuela and make people go home we are in Iran and the United States can do anything it wants to do because it's exceptional because it's the greatest it also means that you're not supposed to question anything you're not even supposed to ask the question or criticize or anything because then he he also had to meet another comment about ill on Omar especially being ungrateful or am i confusing with someone else but anyway because she was lucky enough to come here since she never questioning the United States and also interesting we're not that we really there was just an anti BDS vote and I Anna Presley with the rest of Congress is a tiny number anybody who questions the rest relationship with Israel it's immediately smear so this idea that there that much to the left more to the left is it shows you how bad how how far to the right politics are in this country that people were liberal ish democratic called the left so Margaret let's move on to another issue that's been around a long time the Colin Kaepernick's story of course Colin Kaepernick was a football player American football player for a team in San Francisco is a quarterback that's the premier position and he decided to start a protest by kneeling during the playing of the American national anthem at the beginning of the sporting match rats happen supporting matters in the US and he did that because he was protesting but it is really an epidemic of shootings by police I'm unarmed african-american mostly unarmed African man almost African Americans and it's been not given the attention it should have been given these all remain just local stories for the most part a few of them bubbles up to the national news most of the time there have been investigations even grand juries and the police walk away free and there's a new round of outraged it just happened a couple of weeks ago to Eric Gardner killing in New York City he was choked to death in his selling pens and they know the cops were the whole thing was on video that's the key part of all of this by the way that the advent of cell phone videos have really made this become better no I'm sure things like that were always happening now we just know more of these incidences and Kaepernick decided to take a knee and it caused an enormous outcry Trump himself weighed in again attacking Kaepernick and he his contract ended and he has not been able to get a job again he actually sued with another player against the NFL the National Football League and he got a settlement of less than ten million dollars on collusion is that word again collusion here there really was collusion because they did the owners colluded not to hire him because of the controversy that he caused now as it was hidden in the Trump tweet about the for congresswoman the nationalism and the attention was on the racism in this case the attentions all been on the nationalism that he how dare he disrespect the flag and what was ignored for a lot of it was why he did this because to protest the racist killings and all the fact is he's also an African American football player so that may have something to do with why people hate it why he was so hated as well so I want to ask you about what's happened recently with him he caused another controversy when Nike the sports shoe manufacturer made him last year I believe his their spokesman despite all this controversy and their sales have gone through the roof so it was a savvy move on their part to bring him in but he also asked them to not sell to not market a shoe that they ready start advertising afford they were gonna release it around fourth of July which showed on the back the flag of the youth the first US flag during the revolution made by his foes Lee a woman called Betsy Ross from Philadelphia and as the 13 stars of the 13 colonies and then the first 13 states in a circle so well known flag to all schoolchildren but he said not unlike the Confederate flag that this showed in the United States when it was a slave owning nation and he found that he thought people be offensive they pulled the shoe it didn't hurt again their sales it had a backlash against that so I wanted to ask you about the the the issue here of the racism that was hidden in this story that it's all about the nationalism and and what is the reaction that you've seen to this recently and then weigh in again on camel Harris saying something about interesting the divide in the country he was got near universal support from black people that this person took a public stand paid a price literally paid a price for doing that but he is a folk hero after all and uh hero especially to younger people so Nike knew what they were doing when they hired him as a spokesperson but you you have to give him this he sticks he sticks his guns and this is something that was pretty obscured to me but he means what he says and I I give him all the credit in the world for taking this on and making enemies making friends and admirers and also making enemies but it goes back to what we were talking about before this whole idea of American exceptionalism is very deeply rooted in the story of the American Revolution which if it were taught correctly we would know that one of one of the impetus is for the colonies to break away from Britain they thought Britain was going slavery and there and there was slavery throughout the colonies at that time it was not just the southerners we had slavery so so he makes a very good point a very valid point in doing that so and I as I said I have great respect for him that he did not change his tune and was willing to risk losing money yet again Kamala Harris I mean her comments were particularly disgraceful there's a popular radio programs called The Breakfast Club and now all the candidates go on this on this show it has mostly a young mostly black audience mostly urban audience younger people and but now it's like a can't-miss campaign stop Hillary Clinton Clinton famously claimed that she kept hot sauce in her purse on the Breck that was on The Breakfast Club because she knew though I was mostly black and she I learned but he lasted her so whatever she thought she was achieving she didn't achieve but Kamla Harris was on The Breakfast Club recently and going on on and on about Russia and Russia dividing the country and Russia stealing the election and she felt compelled to claim that the controversy over Kapernick was caused by Russian pots I mean it was just bizarre she made a comment on the view about how we need verified voting which is I agree with her we do these electronic voting machines are used to steal elections but she said well we need paper because Russia can't hack paper and and nobody believes that at all New York Times was trying to drum that up again but because Mueller was such a flop that's the reason but at any rate but she bizarrely claimed that that the Kapernick controversy what were her words it wasn't a thing as she put it and the Russian bot said Jim this up and that is very offensive to me first of all negates the experience of the reality of this country of police murder but police kill three people every day in this country its average is about a thousand people every year one of those three will be black and two will be some other race I believe Native Americans actually have the worst rate of being victimized by police violence and for her to just negate that negate the anger the issue has died down but there was an entire movement black lives matter movement which you know there were issues I believe with the organization it was too closely tied to the nonprofit industrial complex that didn't capitalize on this ongoing problem but millions of people are are very angry about police violence and for her to just dismiss it and say that the some foreigners were responsible for making people angry about something they were truly angry about and negating the reaction the racist reaction to MIT so you're going to talk about it be honest about it I find out so off the wall I can't believe it and what was the reaction African American community I mean she's well the story very well I I think because she's a favorite corporate candidate they they hide things and so it didn't get a lot of didn't get as much press attention as it should have and like many other things unless you're an astute as I am there I say addicted to social media then I know about these things but it did not get the attention that it should have that's interesting a media that has been Hawking the Russia story like crazy decided in this case they were going to bury one of these Russia crazies this is so crazy yeah Marc Elizabeth sorry yeah no I like to ask you Margaret you know this particular instance with Kamala Harris kind of criticizing Colin Kaepernick do you feel like this really highlighted roll as a prosecutor first and a Democrat second in some senses and really kind of brings up again her prosecutorial history that has been just absolutely horrendous and do you think that that that history is something she'll have to face as we go through the primary process or do you think it's the media in general is going to let her off the hook on that well I it's it's interesting I noticed talking to people and talking to people of friends and relatives who aren't as interested in politics as I am her record as a prosecutor is hurting her she is not going to get the support from black people that I think she expected and her backers expected as a prosecuted like you know she caucus up a progressive prosecutors like come on it's like being a what was it a conservative a compassionate conservative it's like you know good sounds like she should get what prosecutors do they make a name for themselves putting people in jail she was against ending prison overcrowding she was in favor of was horrible law in California which put people in jail if their kids didn't go to school she made fun of mocked people who were concerned about the proliferation of prisons so this has hurt her and I don't believe she's going to get the kind of support that she may have and that's why she had to come up with this dopey you know progressive prosecutor canard I'm yeah it seems like she's dismissing the black lies that matter movement as well in some sense it's kind of saying well there's no movement really it's just rushing bolts nothing to see here and and yeah again that thanks very much bring up her roles of prosecutor rather than as a Democrat and I think she you know she's a true obviously a true believer some people are you know careerists or you know opportunists but III think she bought into it and I I think that's that whole system that is so dangerous to our country and to many people in this nation is something she obviously believes in and it points up a difference she had with Obama Obama was very shrewd man I believe he was running planning to run for president from the time he was you know a very young man he didn't do anything that black people found offensive he had nothing in his career like that that would cause people to question him but she has a problem Leslie were good I'd like to bring up another candidate for the Democratic nomination Beto O'Rourke now he a few days ago announced that his ancestors had been slave owners but he supports reparations to African Americans for slavery well here's a what's your reaction to that and then I want to pick your brain a little bit about where you stand on reparations issue well he you know been overworked I mean wouldn't joke it's a you know they obviously want to I feel like they were beating the bushes for to find people to run and keep Bernie Sanders from getting the nomination he's he was known for losing to Ted Cruz it's not like as you know if a Democrat action in the red state actually won you could see I could see why he would have this appeal but he lost and they tried to create this I think he's been a flop thankfully he doesn't really have anything to say he's very much a conservative Democrat as far as his ancestors being slaveholders well so what I don't really care obviously many Americans were slaveholders that's how the system continued for lasted for more than 200 years I don't know what he means by supporting reparations there is this bill in Congress which is everybody talks about supporting reparations but it's supporting a commission to study reparation that's not even like anybody's going to get this repair but as far as reparations I and I'd say 90% of black people are in favor of reparations unfortunately we ourselves have not come to a consensus about what it means so the issue can be used by people who are very unscrupulous so does it mean everybody gets a check does it mean is affirmative action of form of reparations is socialism reparations is it money to communities and money to organizations is that pre-college is it it could be any number of things there have been organizations working on this issue for years but I I believe that we as a group have to come to some consensus on our own otherwise people like Beatle Rourke will claim and then the other Democratic candidates will say they want to study reparations but they don't really mean it and even some black politicians John Conyers who was in the house for decades when Democrats were not in power he would put forward some reparations legislation but when Democrats had controlled Congress he wouldn't and stuff as you know the winner did many things they want to raise until I don't really care about Peter works family hmm but I think it's something we have to have to really decide on and then it will really matter what politicians say once we say this is what it's going to mean well I'm sorry to hear that that there you there's not a consensus that has been reached even though this has been around for a long time this issue yeah yeah it's um it is it is unfortunate and I think it speaks to the weakness in the black American polity it speaks to our the weakness caused by our attachment to the Democratic Party where we it's hard for us to think outside of the box we've diminished our politics to the point where all we the only thing we reach consensus on is wanting to keep Republicans out of office so when polls show that you know black people prefer by they don't really prefer Biden it's that they keep being told he's the most electable and whoever we think can beat Trump or wherever we're told can beat Trump as a person who will get our support conversely Bernie Sanders every issue every single issue that he puts forward is something black people you will not hear a black person saying now we shouldn't have free college now we shouldn't have Medicare for all but we're told he can't win and so I keep reading that black Democrats are more conservative that's not true we have just denied our politics and that is all that it consists of and that means that redeveloping real political agendas like reparations has taken a backseat unfortunately Sanders I think opposes reparations but you know he's something interesting yeah it's it's it's not an answer that I can disagree with but he does talk about I think because he he talks about a kind of repair for the entire country and I conversely I think those who really are conservative Democrats is easy for them to say yeah yeah I back when they don't really you know they're gonna be policies of small D Democratic really giving power back to the people giving power back to the public sphere diminishing the power of wealthy people diminishing the power of corporations I think those are things that would go a long way to improving life for millions of people you know there's a there's one precedent for reparations and that was beginning in 1952 West Germany then began paying reparations to victims survivors of the Holocaust and their families and they've now paid out over ninety billion dollars since then they've extended payments to the surviving spouses of Holocaust survivors of this money Margaret came from companies German companies that were in existence during the Second World War during the Holocaust profited from slave labor and continued after the war and they have had to pay out of the company coffers for that in other words they part of the inheritance of that company was from this unpaid labor that they had during the war so they're now paying out so likewise we if you can inherit money like teto has apparently from your ancestors who were slaveholders and you've got some of that wealth because of that likewise those who are the descendants of slaves have been disinherited so do you see a possibility any kind of a discussion here what do you think of having companies that can be traced back to those days that certainly made profits and particularly wealthy families who also like better or or can be traced to have that their wealth can be traced back to that we mean the ones who put up a good deal of money if not most of it along with government money to actually pay the descendants of slaves who would never paid it should be paid now the way those people are being paid from from the proceeds of their ancestors sure it's very we should think about this in a very expansive way there are families organizations a few years ago was revealed Georgetown University Georgetown University would not exist were it not for the sale of enslaved people the Jesuits owned plantations in Maryland this school was about to go under they sold these human beings to mostly to Louisiana and Georgetown University which now has a couple of billion dollars in its endowment exists because of them and you know there are all these discussions about how can they be paid back and I'm like hey yeah yep you know give the descendants money so that's their people who earn money from slavery there's also the post slavery system of mass incarceration of discrimination discrimination was legal for a hundred years it wasn't illegal in the 1960s there were programs like the GI Bill which was administered by the states and guess which states didn't administer it fairly so black veterans were cheated out of this money which has became the foundation for people to be what we call middle class in this country the restricted covenants that said black people couldn't own homes the schools people couldn't go to the neighborhoods people couldn't live in it goes far beyond the history of enslavement actually so it's I'm sure it's trillions of dollars and it could be on an individual basis it could be any number of things but again it's something we have to come up with these answers for but the corporation's the Institute Brown University the Brown family they made money in the transatlantic slave trade as another example the insurance companies they enslaved people were insured they were property so there's a lot of wealth in this country well that exists today because of chattel slavery and from the century of discrimination afterwards so we should put these people on the spot so when Beatle Rourke says he's in favor reparations what does that mean to him really what does it mean so he would have to spell it out to be in order for me to be impressed sounds to me like there's leadership that's needed here there's some leadership folks about Roger well yeah and as we say in black agenda report most black politicians and traditional civil rights organizations we call them the black misleadership class they're the ones who take up all the air in the room the ones who talk about having a seat at the table and it could be those individuals having a seat at the table they live on the largesse of the Democratic Party so for it when Nancy Pelosi attacked the four congressmen there were members of the Congressional Black Caucus who joined in and said you can't challenge us you can we'll send someone to primary you as if you know I thought we lived in a democracy anybody can be challenged but they were with right in line with the Democratic Party but their groups like in Cobra and others that have been working on this and so yes they are gonna step on those are it returning just to a left ability for a moment and this is a little bit off of the topic we've just been discussing but I wanted to ask you about rumors I've been hearing on the ground that are basically saying that you know that Hillary Clinton may not actually stay out of the race that she may end up throwing her hat in the ring for 2020 do you have any comment on that or whether you think it's at all at all likely yeah the rumor floats from time to time I think people will reject her I actually kind of hope it happens so she can disappear once and for all I wouldn't be surprised if she did she clearly never accepted her defeat accepted her responsibility for her defeat she spent most of 2016 trying to hide her dirt trying to create dirt on Trump and they didn't do the basics of getting out of the mode and having raised more than a billion dollars couldn't get 80,000 more votes that's roughly the margin she lost by in the States the three states that flipped it was constant Michigan and Pennsylvania so she's done and I blame Democrats too for indulging her once she lost she should have been a footnote in history people should have moved on but she's hung around and she's a poison she poisoned people against Bernie Sanders she has if she was going to stick around it should have been to bring the party together and she could emerge as the hero in defeating Trump but she doesn't have it in her that's that's not in her yeah so she's to blame for heavy loss so no she should stay out of Democrats I believe will reject her we'll find a way to tell her the question is how much power to the Clintons including her husband still have in the party in terms of raising money when I will the candidates have to go and kiss her ring in order to become the nominee and if that happens and there's no clear front-runner she might survey the field and say you know none of you are good enough I'm gonna have to come in she'll get to get this all set up in advance where there's a demand for her so it looks like she reluctantly is going in I contended if she could walk she's gonna run I mean that's already happened candidates have already gone to talk to her but I I don't know she has that kind of power and I I think I just think she would be rejected ultimately by Democratic vote and I think if you know the check bundler those people they've moved on and she's a very polarizing figure i I don't I don't think it would I wouldn't be I wouldn't put it past her to think about it but it would I'll put it that way I wouldn't be Strad she's not thinking about it right now Margaret Kimberly joined us from New York to talk about a range of issues and I thank you for joining us on CN lodge thank you so much

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